NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[checkmatechamp13]

There's probably no demand for it anyways. If there was some sort of demand, it would probably be done. I don't know why you're so focused on this when NICE has way bigger problems to contend with. I don't see much of a demand anyways for such a service, I would just leave it as is.

 

"Such a service". Dude, he's asking for them to hold a connection for the only bus that runs into Nassau at that time. You don't think connections should be held when the buses run every hour, let alone for the last bus of the night?

 

There's a few hospitals on Hempstead Turnpike where nurses might be trying to get to an overnight shift. You might have people who might end their shifts at say 8pm, catch the 8:30 bus out of Patchogue, and need to get somewhere in Nassau County. How are you supposed to get to Farmingdale at that hour? Take the LIRR all the way to Jamaica and backtrack all the way out? Even for somebody going to Hempstead, the next train is at 9:41pm, and they have to take that to Freeport for the n40/41, just because NICE couldn't hold a connection for a few minutes?

 

He's not asking for a new bus, he's asking for an existing bus to be held a few minutes. That's a very reasonable request that is done in many transit systems all over the world.

 

His motivation behind it (the idea that it should be for the purpose of giving people a cheap alternative to the LIRR) I don't agree with, but the concept of holding transfers is very reasonable.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

"Such a service". Dude, he's asking for them to hold a connection for the only bus that runs into Nassau at that time. You don't think connections should be held when the buses run every hour, let alone for the last bus of the night?

 

There's a few hospitals on Hempstead Turnpike where nurses might be trying to get to an overnight shift. You might have people who might end their shifts at say 8pm, catch the 8:30 bus out of Patchogue, and need to get somewhere in Nassau County. How are you supposed to get to Farmingdale at that hour? Take the LIRR all the way to Jamaica and backtrack all the way out? Even for somebody going to Hempstead, the next train is at 9:41pm, and they have to take that to Freeport for the n40/41, just because NICE couldn't hold a connection for a few minutes?

 

He's not asking for a new bus, he's asking for an existing bus to be held a few minutes. That's a very reasonable request that is done in many transit systems all over the world.

 

His motivation behind it (the idea that it should be for the purpose of giving people a cheap alternative to the LIRR) I don't agree with, but the concept of holding transfers is very reasonable.

Like I said, there's probably not a demand, or a high demand for such service. There might be overnight workers to/from Hospitals on Hempstead Turnpike, but the percentage of people who use it are highly likely to have not originated from points such as Bay Shore, Islip, or Patchogue. Now, if people actually had a problem with the bus not meeting the n72, then someone would actually try to reach out to NICE, or a politician of sorts. The evening n72's have never left after the S40 arrives, even with older schedules. You can't possibly make connections with every bus at Babylon anyway. I don't think NICE should go out of it's way on this, especially since no one has mentioned that, which means the current schedule isn't causing inconveniences for transfers. If NICE wanted, they could've just ditched the whole line south of Farmingdale, since a significant amount of riders ride within Suffolk, and focus on the Nassau portion. They could just transfer the route to SCT if they wanted to, and let them figure out how to deal with those issues (but I'm not proposing such a thing to happen, nor would want to). 

 

It would be more idealistic for SCT to modify the S40 schedule at night, since with the n72 schedule, you'd have to modify a lot more runs, including n70/n71 times, which then throws off any other connections at either Sunrise or Farmingdale, among other points. I would've left the current last bus to Hempstead as is,  and have the S40 leave 10 minutes earlier every hour after 6:30 PM (and modify the S66 departing Patchogue at 4:30 to leave at 4:25 PM, getting back to Patchogue at 7:15 PM, giving 5 minutes of connection, in order to solve any connection problems arising from the S40 move) would cause less connecting problems at other points along the route. Move the n72, and you move the n72 times about 20 minutes later than the scheduled to be times, and you have to move the n71 around too, and move runs around all over the place, and potentially miss connections to other (typically North-South) links. 

 

He's also asked for later buses, such as a 10:30 PM or so, so that one has a last bus out to NYC (and who would be doing that trip in the first place). He's reasoning for riders east of Babylon wanting to be dumped up at Hempstead for a bus to the city is outright crazy. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[checkmatechamp13]

Like I said, there's probably not a demand, or a high demand for such service. There might be overnight workers to/from Hospitals on Hempstead Turnpike, but the percentage of people who use it are highly likely to have not originated from points such as Bay Shore, Islip, or Patchogue. Now, if people actually had a problem with the bus not meeting the n72, then someone would actually try to reach out to NICE, or a politician of sorts. The evening n72's have never left after the S40 arrives, even with older schedules. You can't possibly make connections with every bus at Babylon anyway. I don't think NICE should go out of it's way on this, especially since no one has mentioned that, which means the current schedule isn't causing inconveniences for transfers. If NICE wanted, they could've just ditched the whole line south of Farmingdale, since a significant amount of riders ride within Suffolk, and focus on the Nassau portion. They could just transfer the route to SCT if they wanted to, and let them figure out how to deal with those issues (but I'm not proposing such a thing to happen, nor would want to). 

 

It would be more idealistic for SCT to modify the S40 schedule at night, since with the n72 schedule, you'd have to modify a lot more runs, including n70/n71 times, which then throws off any other connections at either Sunrise or Farmingdale, among other points. I would've left the current last bus to Hempstead as is,  and have the S40 leave 10 minutes earlier every hour after 6:30 PM (and modify the S66 departing Patchogue at 4:30 to leave at 4:25 PM, getting back to Patchogue at 7:15 PM, giving 5 minutes of connection, in order to solve any connection problems arising from the S40 move) would cause less connecting problems at other points along the route. Move the n72, and you move the n72 times about 20 minutes later than the scheduled to be times, and you have to move the n71 around too, and move runs around all over the place, and potentially miss connections to other (typically North-South) links. 

 

He's also asked for later buses, such as a 10:30 PM or so, so that one has a last bus out to NYC (and who would be doing that trip in the first place). He's reasoning for riders east of Babylon wanting to be dumped up at Hempstead for a bus to the city is outright crazy. 

 

Again, stop talking about "such service" like it's some obscure route that needs to be created or something. 

 

You talk about complaining to politicians like the problems automatically end up being fixed. What about all the people who didn't want NICE to come in the first place? What about all the people who complained about their routes being cut? Not to mention that you're assuming that the people who are affected even know the right channels to complain to. A lot of these meetings are held during the day when people are at work. 

 

I got the whole community to complain about transit service in my neighborhood for the past 5 years. And the MTA is just beginning to listen to us. And some of the things were as simple as sticking a pole in the ground to add a bus stop in a key area. Do you really think that the amount of people that are missing the connection is really going to be enough to have their voice heard? It's sad but it's true. If NICE doesn't feel like listening to the people, they're not going to do it. That doesn't mean that a particular change isn't needed.

 

I suggested that they publish a list of alternatives for people who are affected by the service reductions, for those who might have them. A young woman came to the public hearing to ask about alternatives to the n2/8, and she was fortunate enough to live a few blocks from the n25. But if she hadn't come to the meeting, she would've ended up walking all the way up to Hempstead Turnpike to catch the n6, rather than taking the n25 up there. Their response was "Most people don't have alternatives. Sorry". It would've taken 10 minutes to compile a list and put it up on the site, but they just don't care.

 

Since you want to talk about "moving around the n71", remember that the 9:15 n72 is scheduled about 20 minutes behind the n70, and 35 minutes in front of the n71. So actually, moving it back 10 minutes would give you better spacing (30 minutes behind the n70, and 25 minutes in front of the n71). Not to mention it would turn a 75 minute gap at Farmingdale into a 65 minute gap. 

 

And moving it from 9:15pm to 9:25pm is 10 minutes, not 20 minutes.

 

Oh, that's nice, you want to have people rushing to make their connections at Patchogue from the S61/63 (which arrive at :20) just because NICE can't move their one trip back 10 minutes? And speaking of which, the connections at Babylon are generally made on the :30s, and you act like it's so crazy to have the n72 connect with most of the SCT buses. (Obviously, there's some exceptions like the S27 & S29, but for the S29, the S23 covers a good part of the route anyway). 

 

Yes, I know this guy asked for later buses for the specific purpose of not having to pay for the LIRR, and I agree that it's stupid and ridiculous to use that as a reason. But just because he chose to use a stupid reason doesn't mean a better reason doesn't exist. In this particular case, having the last bus make an easy connection with the S40 for the purposes of getting people back to Nassau (not Queens or NYC) makes sense.

[N6 Limited]

It's reasonable to ask for a connection to the last bus for the night. Also , when transit agencies make connections easier, ridership increases.

[MTA Orion Bus]

It's reasonable to ask for a connection to the last bus for the night. Also , when transit agencies make connections easier, ridership increases.

- This is the reason n20/21 ridership will decrease with this month's changes.

- This is the reason n23/27 ridership decreased when they made the connection changes at Roslyn. That ridership still hasn't returned.

- Ridership increases when the connections are easy AND riders have faith in the system that the bus will actually show up. This is NOT the case with NICE.

[NY1635]

Where was he a month ago when the cuts were announced? Another clown in the Nassau Legislature. At this point, the n2/8 are a goner anyways.

 

He's calling of a delay on the cuts now because the weather is colder now and not many people would be able to walk to Hempstead Turnpike to catch the n6 in this weather. One of the people in the video acknowledged that they can walk on Meacham Ave to the bus stop, but the elderly can't.

[FamousNYLover]

Again, stop talking about "such service" like it's some obscure route that needs to be created or something. 

 

You talk about complaining to politicians like the problems automatically end up being fixed. What about all the people who didn't want NICE to come in the first place? What about all the people who complained about their routes being cut? Not to mention that you're assuming that the people who are affected even know the right channels to complain to. A lot of these meetings are held during the day when people are at work. 

 

I got the whole community to complain about transit service in my neighborhood for the past 5 years. And the MTA is just beginning to listen to us. And some of the things were as simple as sticking a pole in the ground to add a bus stop in a key area. Do you really think that the amount of people that are missing the connection is really going to be enough to have their voice heard? It's sad but it's true. If NICE doesn't feel like listening to the people, they're not going to do it. That doesn't mean that a particular change isn't needed.

 

I suggested that they publish a list of alternatives for people who are affected by the service reductions, for those who might have them. A young woman came to the public hearing to ask about alternatives to the n2/8, and she was fortunate enough to live a few blocks from the n25. But if she hadn't come to the meeting, she would've ended up walking all the way up to Hempstead Turnpike to catch the n6, rather than taking the n25 up there. Their response was "Most people don't have alternatives. Sorry". It would've taken 10 minutes to compile a list and put it up on the site, but they just don't care.

 

Since you want to talk about "moving around the n71", remember that the 9:15 n72 is scheduled about 20 minutes behind the n70, and 35 minutes in front of the n71. So actually, moving it back 10 minutes would give you better spacing (30 minutes behind the n70, and 25 minutes in front of the n71). Not to mention it would turn a 75 minute gap at Farmingdale into a 65 minute gap. 

 

And moving it from 9:15pm to 9:25pm is 10 minutes, not 20 minutes.

 

Oh, that's nice, you want to have people rushing to make their connections at Patchogue from the S61/63 (which arrive at :20) just because NICE can't move their one trip back 10 minutes? And speaking of which, the connections at Babylon are generally made on the :30s, and you act like it's so crazy to have the n72 connect with most of the SCT buses. (Obviously, there's some exceptions like the S27 & S29, but for the S29, the S23 covers a good part of the route anyway). 

 

Yes, I know this guy asked for later buses for the specific purpose of not having to pay for the LIRR, and I agree that it's stupid and ridiculous to use that as a reason. But just because he chose to use a stupid reason doesn't mean a better reason doesn't exist. In this particular case, having the last bus make an easy connection with the S40 for the purposes of getting people back to Nassau (not Queens or NYC) makes sense.

Actually I made list of service cut and list of routes that are nearby.

[checkmatechamp13]

He's calling of a delay on the cuts now because the weather is colder now and not many people would be able to walk to Hempstead Turnpike to catch the n6 in this weather. One of the people in the video acknowledged that they can walk on Meacham Ave to the bus stop, but the elderly can't.

 

While I do understand the logic behind this, the problem is that it's only going to help for this winter. What is NICE supposed to do, reinstate the eliminated routes for every winter?

 

Actually I made list of service cut and list of routes that are nearby.

 

It's NICE's responsibility to provide that list. I made a list too, but people should be able to look on the NICE website itself, not have to look through some random transit forums when all they're concerned about is how they're going to get around.

[MTA Orion Bus]

He's calling of a delay on the cuts now because the weather is colder now and not many people would be able to walk to Hempstead Turnpike to catch the n6 in this weather. One of the people in the video acknowledged that they can walk on Meacham Ave to the bus stop, but the elderly can't.

Boo hoo. There were many more riders affected in half the other changes NICE made in the last 3 years than this one and those changes still happened. Goodbye n2/8.

It's NICE's responsibility to provide that list. I made a list too, but people should be able to look on the NICE website itself, not have to look through some random transit forums when all they're concerned about is how they're going to get around.

 

Actually I made list of service cut and list of routes that are nearby.

I have a question, and this is serious because I've seen you harassing bus riders at Roosevelt Field, bothering people for questions or whatnot, promoting LIBRU, etc. Why don't you just get a job with NICE since you clearly have somewhat of an obsession with the service? I'm sure NICE could put your time to good use and you could update the site, put up the flyers around the system, etc.

[NY1635]

While I do understand the logic behind this, the problem is that it's only going to help for this winter. What is NICE supposed to do, reinstate the eliminated routes for every winter?

 

 

It's NICE's responsibility to provide that list. I made a list too, but people should be able to look on the NICE website itself, not have to look through some random transit forums when all they're concerned about is how they're going to get around.

 

Delaying the cuts would give the county extra time to find money to fund the bus service. Though I do wonder why didn't he do this earlier.

 

http://www.fios1news.com/longisland/nice-bus-extension#.VpBq6U8YHSY

[MTA Orion Bus]

Delaying the cuts would give the county extra time to find money to fund the bus service. Though I do wonder why didn't he do this earlier.

 

http://www.fios1news.com/longisland/nice-bus-extension#.VpBq6U8YHSY

Does nobody get it? The country doesn't want to find the money to fund bus service because most people in the county don't use the bus service and could care less whether the cuts happen or not. Let's say, hypothetically, the money is given by the county. The same thing will happen next year and the year after, or the state will step in and then it's dependent on the money of everyone in the state to provide bus service to a county that doesn't really even want it. Whether it happens now or it happens later this year or next year, the routes are going to be cut given what's happened in the last 3. Let it go now and let what money NICE has left be put to a better cause.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Again, stop talking about "such service" like it's some obscure route that needs to be created or something. 

 

You talk about complaining to politicians like the problems automatically end up being fixed. What about all the people who didn't want NICE to come in the first place? What about all the people who complained about their routes being cut? Not to mention that you're assuming that the people who are affected even know the right channels to complain to. A lot of these meetings are held during the day when people are at work. 

 

I got the whole community to complain about transit service in my neighborhood for the past 5 years. And the MTA is just beginning to listen to us. And some of the things were as simple as sticking a pole in the ground to add a bus stop in a key area. Do you really think that the amount of people that are missing the connection is really going to be enough to have their voice heard? It's sad but it's true. If NICE doesn't feel like listening to the people, they're not going to do it. That doesn't mean that a particular change isn't needed.

 

I suggested that they publish a list of alternatives for people who are affected by the service reductions, for those who might have them. A young woman came to the public hearing to ask about alternatives to the n2/8, and she was fortunate enough to live a few blocks from the n25. But if she hadn't come to the meeting, she would've ended up walking all the way up to Hempstead Turnpike to catch the n6, rather than taking the n25 up there. Their response was "Most people don't have alternatives. Sorry". It would've taken 10 minutes to compile a list and put it up on the site, but they just don't care.

 

Since you want to talk about "moving around the n71", remember that the 9:15 n72 is scheduled about 20 minutes behind the n70, and 35 minutes in front of the n71. So actually, moving it back 10 minutes would give you better spacing (30 minutes behind the n70, and 25 minutes in front of the n71). Not to mention it would turn a 75 minute gap at Farmingdale into a 65 minute gap. 

 

And moving it from 9:15pm to 9:25pm is 10 minutes, not 20 minutes.

 

Oh, that's nice, you want to have people rushing to make their connections at Patchogue from the S61/63 (which arrive at :20) just because NICE can't move their one trip back 10 minutes? And speaking of which, the connections at Babylon are generally made on the :30s, and you act like it's so crazy to have the n72 connect with most of the SCT buses. (Obviously, there's some exceptions like the S27 & S29, but for the S29, the S23 covers a good part of the route anyway). 

 

Yes, I know this guy asked for later buses for the specific purpose of not having to pay for the LIRR, and I agree that it's stupid and ridiculous to use that as a reason. But just because he chose to use a stupid reason doesn't mean a better reason doesn't exist. In this particular case, having the last bus make an easy connection with the S40 for the purposes of getting people back to Nassau (not Queens or NYC) makes sense.

A specific trip that a person makes by public transportation, whether a bus or train, is a need or demand by an individual, and public transit provides that as a service, regardless how many transfers are used.

 

I'm pretty sure that if people actually brought up the connecting problem to NICE and SCT, that one or the other would be able to fix connection (More likely SCT though). I mean, NICE has reinstated n23/n27 service back to normal after what they did to the route, so essentially a connecting issue should not be a problem. For the record, I'm pretty sure that there is some amount of riders using the n72 and the S40, however I question the actual effectiveness of having the bus connect with it in the evening. It's gonna mess up times regardless in the evenings going back, since there's an even 20-30 minute headway (1 bus on each of the three routes each).

 

While the 9:15 PM would be the easiest to move around, what about the 7:15 PM and 8:15 PM buses. Those are under a more uniform headway, and moving it would cause it to be too close to the N71, unless you modify both that and the n19's time, and make them interline at Sunrise Mall, in order for the 72 to leave at a later slot. As for the S63 and S61, transfers can be made at the District courts, but the last buses can be moved up 5 minutes for the S63 (last S63 from Smith Haven at 6:25 PM). For the S61, after 2:00 PM from Patchgoue, every trip would be moved up by 5 minutes (after 3:00 PM from Port Jefferson), with the exception of the 7:25 PM to Coram, which would stay as it is from leaving. 

 

Like I said, you aren't able to connect to every bus. The n19 won't be able to connect to the S27 or S29 either during those times. If it were to, the headways would have to be every 30 minutes, which is obviously not warranted. I feel that it should connect to the n19 more than with the n72, but since the n19 is being truncated to Sunrise, the S40 could be extended during evening periods to Sunrise (and one midday trip). It may require extra buses, but it could be a much greater benefit. It would also connect to the n54/55, and the n71. The routing would be different from the current S20 though, to include some areas of the n19 which received a decent amount of riders, and parts of the s20 as well. The added time would be around 20 minutes, so it would be 75 minutes to Sunrise, 70 to Patchogue, via Amityville R.R/Oak St/Wellwood Av/Montauk Hwy. There would still be hourly headways (25 minute layover at Sunrise Mall, with the current schedule).

 

So, to sum it all up, unless all the evening n72's meet the s40, I wouldn't do it. I would rather have SCT modify the schedule on some of their routes in order to make that work. However, an evening extension of the S40 (to make up for lost n19 service) to Sunrise would be more beneficial to riders going to Nassau, since they have even more NICE bus connections than just the n72. A good amount of riders on that n19 portion east of Sunrise rode within Suffolk county anyways, so SCT is providing a service for their own customers, as they should.

Edited January 9, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[DS4Ever]

Nassau iscconsidered a thruway since im heading from ruverhead to NYC

 

But hey you got a point taken as it would aleve passengers heading to Nassau

 

You said about the timing and scheduling

 

For better scheduling have the last n71 depart at 10:10pm and not 9:58pm and n72 stays with the 9:25pm departure. ..remember NICE must focus easy access to Nassau at a cheap cost they must remember they'r . Not part of the MTA but running SOLO

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Nassau iscconsidered a thruway since im heading from ruverhead to NYC

 

But hey you got a point taken as it would aleve passengers heading to Nassau

 

You said about the timing and scheduling

 

For better scheduling have the last n71 depart at 10:10pm and not 9:58pm and n72 stays with the 9:25pm departure. ..remember NICE must focus easy access to Nassau at a cheap cost they must remember they'r . Not part of the MTA but running SOLO

NICE is there in order to get the most out of operating routes across the county. Routes would still have to be subsidized, but essentially, the less subsidies needed, the better. NICE essentially did that by decreasing operating hours and operating cost where deemed necessary, but is still in a deficit.

 

If you modifiy the n71 and n72 to have unison headway under that plan, you would actually connect to both the n71 and the n72, but it can't be done for only one interval, it has to be done for all.

[FamousNYLover]

Boo hoo. There were many more riders affected in half the other changes NICE made in the last 3 years than this one and those changes still happened. Goodbye n2/8.

 

 

I have a question, and this is serious because I've seen you harassing bus riders at Roosevelt Field, bothering people for questions or whatnot, promoting LIBRU, etc. Why don't you just get a job with NICE since you clearly have somewhat of an obsession with the service? I'm sure NICE could put your time to good use and you could update the site, put up the flyers around the system, etc.

I NEVER HARASS PEOPLE AT ALL. I NEVER CURSE AT ALL EITHER. I hand out fliers if they say yes or asked for it.

I DON'T DO AGGRESIVE FLYERINGS.

 

 

Delaying the cuts would give the county extra time to find money to fund the bus service. Though I do wonder why didn't he do this earlier.

 

http://www.fios1news.com/longisland/nice-bus-extension#.VpBq6U8YHSY

I did before the NICE Bus posted schedule change and made fliers from my favorite copy place Franklin Sq.

 

Even thought PinePower, and NYCTF members don't agree with LIBRU, I do not curse them because I NOT RUDE PERSON.

 

I spent more time in Long Island more because of volunteer with Vegan Long Island meetup group, well as environemntal organization meetings, and Blind Vegan Escort.

Edited January 9, 2016 by FamousNYLover

[FamousNYLover]

I don't attack people on bus or car, but every time when I see bad car drivers cutting through Roosevelt Field Mall Bus Terminal or Mineola Bus Station, I get angry and said, "Are you crazy? THIS IS BUS LANE." I don't use F or C-words.

[MTA Orion Bus]

A specific trip that a person makes by public transportation, whether a bus or train, is a need or demand by an individual, and public transit provides that as a service, regardless how many transfers are used.

With that logic, those bus trips you take and post about here are considered "a need or demand by an individual."

 

I mean, NICE has reinstated n23/n27 service back to normal after what they did to the route, so essentially a connecting issue should not be a problem.

NICE only changed it back after LIBRU complained, and the n23/27 lost a lot of ridership that still hasn't come back thanks to that period. If you've ever read tweets or FB posts sent to NICE (which are frequently deleted by them), you'll see there are connection issues all over the system. I don't know what world you're living in, but hound has the right idea.

 

I also won't quote the rest of your post, but will say that there will be connection issues with the n70/71/72 to any route into Suffolk simply because of the length of the routes on Hempstead Tpke, the traffic on that road, and the amount of lights the bus will/will not hit because of a county without a bus-priority lighting system. You're right that you're not able to connect to every bus. NICE's problem is that it has trouble connecting to any bus, even between it's own. The schedule may try to do it, but go out and take note of how many actually do it.

 

 

I NEVER HARASS PEOPLE AT ALL. I NEVER CURSE AT ALL EITHER. I hand out fliers if they say yes or asked for it.

I DON'T DO AGGRESIVE FLYERINGS.

I don't know why you felt the need to put that in a big font size. I can read it just fine at normal. I never said "aggressive" nor that you curse. It's the fact that I've seen you promoting LIBRU propaganda at places like Roosevelt Field and Hempstead Transit Center to people who do not want to be bothered while they're waiting for a bus, and all LIBRU has done is be a plague among this transit system by bitching about the most nonsense things. It's a waste of paper and people's time to be quite honest.

 

 

I did before the NICE Bus posted schedule change and made fliers from my favorite copy place Franklin Sq.

 

Even thought PinePower, and NYCTF members don't agree with LIBRU, I do not curse them because I NOT RUDE PERSON.

 

I spent more time in Long Island more because of volunteer with Vegan Long Island meetup group, well as environemntal organization meetings, and Blind Vegan Escort.

I'm pretty sure PinePower and the NYCTF members here have good reason to not agree with LIBRU. But that still didn't answer my original question:

 

Why don't you just get a job with NICE since you clearly have somewhat of an obsession with the service? I'm sure NICE could put your time to good use and you could update the site, put up the flyers around the system, etc.

Edited January 9, 2016 by MTA Orion Bus

[DS4Ever]

LEts not forgot that the last n71leaving sunrise mall and n72 leaving Babylon after arriving Hempstead it deadheads towards the garage so its no difference between the n72 thar left Babylon and the semilast n72 departing from farmingdale (10:35pm) which the Babylon n72 would arrive farmingdale at 10:05pm if the n72 departs at 9:25 pm from Babylon hence only a half hour difference in timing as after the 10:35pm bus from farmingdale the next bus scheduling is the last bus (11:35pm) arriving Hempstead at 12:15pm

 

Like a fellow follower said NICE only commands service within Nassau county very much it does to enhance better service for buses to operate in Suffolk county

 

In conclusion exist two methods

 

* have the n72 departs 9:25pm (time it would receive the transferring passengers from the s40)

 

* have the 8:30pm s40 from patchogue extended to amityville (or sunrise mall if it is good for SCT) arrive at 9:45-9:50pm right ontime to connecting the Last n55 bus bound for Hempstead (departing at 10:00pm)

 

The main Point is a better connection for a s40 to a NICE bus...let's not have the SCT buses without connection to Nassau county

 

SCT can eliminate the s20 and fuse it with the s40 and get lots of money

[DS4Ever]

P.S: thanks for understanding my Point of view checkmatechamp13

 

That's the whole reason of this mini discussion

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

With that logic, those bus trips you take and post about here are considered "a need or demand by an individual."

 

NICE only changed it back after LIBRU complained, and the n23/27 lost a lot of ridership that still hasn't come back thanks to that period. If you've ever read tweets or FB posts sent to NICE (which are frequently deleted by them), you'll see there are connection issues all over the system. I don't know what world you're living in, but hound has the right idea.

 

I also won't quote the rest of your post, but will say that there will be connection issues with the n70/71/72 to any route into Suffolk simply because of the length of the routes on Hempstead Tpke, the traffic on that road, and the amount of lights the bus will/will not hit because of a county without a bus-priority lighting system. You're right that you're not able to connect to every bus. NICE's problem is that it has trouble connecting to any bus, even between it's own. The schedule may try to do it, but go out and take note of how many actually do it.

 

Yes, because a demand is a something (individual item, service, etc.) that an individual wants to obtain. In this case, the amount of people paying and using the bus is a demand. It doesn't matter if it's for a recreational purposes, work, medical visits, shopping, etc., everything combined together is considered demand. A need is slightly more specific, but my trips do fall within the pool of demand, but not always a need.

 

Exactly, so if people actually complain to NICE, they'll be able to adjust service. That's why I mentioned in my first post that NICE has other things to contend with, scheduling issues within Nassau being one of them. Since besides the inter-county travel between Queens and Nassau, intra Nassau travel is also pretty high, and NICE should be able to deal with these issues first. Of course, crappy service, not following the schedules, and no shows are other things NICE has to improve which are at a much higher priority; you'd affect a whole lot more people even with a no-show alone, or a bus running behind schedule, compared to the scheduling issue with the n72 and the s40 during evening periods.

 

LEts not forgot that the last n71leaving sunrise mall and n72 leaving Babylon after arriving Hempstead it deadheads towards the garage so its no difference between the n72 thar left Babylon and the semilast n72 departing from farmingdale (10:35pm) which the Babylon n72 would arrive farmingdale at 10:05pm if the n72 departs at 9:25 pm from Babylon hence only a half hour difference in timing as after the 10:35pm bus from farmingdale the next bus scheduling is the last bus (11:35pm) arriving Hempstead at 12:15pm

 

Like a fellow follower said NICE only commands service within Nassau county very much it does to enhance better service for buses to operate in Suffolk county

 

In conclusion exist two methods

 

* have the n72 departs 9:25pm (time it would receive the transferring passengers from the s40)

 

* have the 8:30pm s40 from patchogue extended to amityville (or sunrise mall if it is good for SCT) arrive at 9:45-9:50pm right ontime to connecting the Last n55 bus bound for Hempstead (departing at 10:00pm)

 

The main Point is a better connection for a s40 to a NICE bus...let's not have the SCT buses without connection to Nassau county

 

SCT can eliminate the s20 and fuse it with the s40 and get lots of money

Like I said, I would extend either all evening S40's, or none of them. A consistent hourly headway IMO is much better than choosing just one trip out of all. 

 

IDK how much more money an S20/40 combo would gain, but it's not going to be much. I mean, yeah, an S40 extension would provide a more consistent headway than the S20 would, but IDK about it increasing ridership. You'd still most likely have similar ridership statistics.

[DS4Ever]

Touche but a mere 10 minute await won't hurt the industry of NICE. ..the n72 wouldn't be suffering this problem if the n19 wouldnt be truncated

 

All is for making petitions to nice just like they made for the n2/8 bus lines

[MTA Orion Bus]

Yes, because a demand is a something (individual item, service, etc.) that an individual wants to obtain. In this case, the amount of people paying and using the bus is a demand. It doesn't matter if it's for a recreational purposes, work, medical visits, shopping, etc., everything combined together is considered demand. A need is slightly more specific, but my trips do fall within the pool of demand, but not always a need.

 

Exactly, so if people actually complain to NICE, they'll be able to adjust service. That's why I mentioned in my first post that NICE has other things to contend with, scheduling issues within Nassau being one of them. Since besides the inter-county travel between Queens and Nassau, intra Nassau travel is also pretty high, and NICE should be able to deal with these issues first. Of course, crappy service, not following the schedules, and no shows are other things NICE has to improve which are at a much higher priority; you'd affect a whole lot more people even with a no-show alone, or a bus running behind schedule, compared to the scheduling issue with the n72 and the s40 during evening periods.

The problem with the complaints to NICE is the only people who have bothered NICE on a consistent basis is LIBRU and their ideas certainly do not speak for the majority of ridership on any of the routes they've touched, only for those that attend their meetings or listen to their constant babbling. We know that most of the people that ride NICE (those that PinePowerLI and many have protested about) don't say anything to NICE. NICE really is trying to discretely discintigrate the bus system to eventually nothing. I see overall ridership today definitely at less than 95,000, probably somewhere between 80,000 to 90,000 (big range, but after the cuts happen, that should tell us something).

[checkmatechamp13]

A specific trip that a person makes by public transportation, whether a bus or train, is a need or demand by an individual, and public transit provides that as a service, regardless how many transfers are used.

 

I'm pretty sure that if people actually brought up the connecting problem to NICE and SCT, that one or the other would be able to fix connection (More likely SCT though). I mean, NICE has reinstated n23/n27 service back to normal after what they did to the route, so essentially a connecting issue should not be a problem. For the record, I'm pretty sure that there is some amount of riders using the n72 and the S40, however I question the actual effectiveness of having the bus connect with it in the evening. It's gonna mess up times regardless in the evenings going back, since there's an even 20-30 minute headway (1 bus on each of the three routes each).

 

While the 9:15 PM would be the easiest to move around, what about the 7:15 PM and 8:15 PM buses. Those are under a more uniform headway, and moving it would cause it to be too close to the N71, unless you modify both that and the n19's time, and make them interline at Sunrise Mall, in order for the 72 to leave at a later slot. As for the S63 and S61, transfers can be made at the District courts, but the last buses can be moved up 5 minutes for the S63 (last S63 from Smith Haven at 6:25 PM). For the S61, after 2:00 PM from Patchgoue, every trip would be moved up by 5 minutes (after 3:00 PM from Port Jefferson), with the exception of the 7:25 PM to Coram, which would stay as it is from leaving. 

 

Like I said, you aren't able to connect to every bus. The n19 won't be able to connect to the S27 or S29 either during those times. If it were to, the headways would have to be every 30 minutes, which is obviously not warranted. I feel that it should connect to the n19 more than with the n72, but since the n19 is being truncated to Sunrise, the S40 could be extended during evening periods to Sunrise (and one midday trip). It may require extra buses, but it could be a much greater benefit. It would also connect to the n54/55, and the n71. The routing would be different from the current S20 though, to include some areas of the n19 which received a decent amount of riders, and parts of the s20 as well. The added time would be around 20 minutes, so it would be 75 minutes to Sunrise, 70 to Patchogue, via Amityville R.R/Oak St/Wellwood Av/Montauk Hwy. There would still be hourly headways (25 minute layover at Sunrise Mall, with the current schedule).

 

So, to sum it all up, unless all the evening n72's meet the s40, I wouldn't do it. I would rather have SCT modify the schedule on some of their routes in order to make that work. However, an evening extension of the S40 (to make up for lost n19 service) to Sunrise would be more beneficial to riders going to Nassau, since they have even more NICE bus connections than just the n72. A good amount of riders on that n19 portion east of Sunrise rode within Suffolk county anyways, so SCT is providing a service for their own customers, as they should.

 

If NICE wants to shift around the 7:15 & 8:15 trips to better connect with the SCT buses, that would be nice. But at the minimum, I don't see why the 9:15pm trip shouldn't be shifted back 10 minutes (especially since it would result in more even headways in Farmingdale, and along Hempstead Turnpike in general). You give people the flexibility of connecting with a bus one hour later than they normally would've (without changing up the times as far back as 2pm on a route halfway across the county). 

 

Touche but a mere 10 minute await won't hurt the industry of NICE. ..the n72 wouldn't be suffering this problem if the n19 wouldnt be truncated

 

Alright, now you're just regressing into the old argument which I didn't like. The n72 serves a whole swath of Nassau that is nowhere near the n19, and for that reason, the connection to the last bus of the night is very important. You think it's alright just because you'll save your $3 for the LIRR, but at the same time, you're taking a legitimate issue (people being unable to get back to whole swaths of Nassau) and making it about yourself. 

[DS4Ever]

Yeah but you self said about the scheduling of that specific n72 being in the turnpike 35 minutes behind the n70 and ahead of the n71 by 20 minutes and that evenly the n72 to leave at 9:25pm to enable connection with the s40 at ease

 

Not to myself but in general speaking for Nassau county residents or even the passengers residing in the corridor of NYS 109 the n72 departing 10 minutes late can benefit many Nassau residents residing in the n72 routing. ..you enlightened clearly the main reason why must the n72 depart at 9:25pm (that would also go in general to the 8:25,7:25,etc)

 

But NICE must figure out what to do i mean you're right there's no way another bus fleet would be use but the resting bus that was scheduled to depart at 9:15 to 9:25pm

 

For all the n19 is a poor route east of sunrise but was a plan B...but we're talking about a busy route in a busy roadway and reaches to users

[B35 via Church]

I sincerely think NICE is going to slowly, eventually, turn into a bus system whose sole purpose will be to connect Nassau & Queens.....

 

Back when folks on the forums were using wordplay w/ the acronym, the "inter county" part of it raised my suspicions from day one... The intra county riders apparently don't matter.... I'm telling you right now, "n20" service will be relegated to (what will be now) the n20G... I don't see that n20H (as is) lasting very long.....

 

Anyway, as I understand it, the n2/8, 14, 17, 46, 50, 51, 62, 73/74, 80, and 81 will get the axe & the n19 will get cut back to the mall....

The n20G/H thing, I just learned from watching Pinepower's latest video what that plan entails....

 

* First off, the n2 & the n8 shouldn't have been combined, nor should it have been turned into that loop type of routing it has.... Both of those routes should have been cut, it's futile to try to garner in that portion of the western part of the county.... Noticable north-south usage doesn't really begin in Nassau due east (from the county line, that is) until you hit the n25.... It has been like that for the longest.....

 

* n14, adios... I don't ever remember a time where there has been anything greater than N93 ridership!

 

* n17... From what I've been reasing, the consensus is to divert n16's to the hospital.... I actually think there should be an n15x or w/e that runs over the n17 portion, with each trip doing this running to RFM - The only question is, how frequent should this service be.....

 

* n46 (structurally) is not NICE's fault.... As is, I would have gotten rid of this route too... It's basically a gap filler/stop gap measure of a route that runs to LIRR Bellmore (of all places)....  The general issue with bus service b/w HTC (Hempstead) & East Meadow are the sheer amt. of duplicate services there are..... There's simply too much fat.

 

* n50.... IDK how things are (usage-wise) necessarily w/ NICE, but back in the day, it generally was utilized more over than the N46... I personally think this route should've stayed...

 

* n51... May as well get rid of this route.... I'm not being funny, but Jews (esp. in suburbia) aren't thinking twice about taking the bus.... Merrick (north & south) has a significant Jewish population.... Virtually no one is trying to get from RFM/NCCC to N/S Merrick..... That's the problem.....

 

* n62... Apparently, its usage got worse, because I remember times where you would see at least 10-15 ppl. at a time (out of LIRR Freeport) taking this route..... Although I never really knew how far along the route they were taking it to..... Ah well....

 

* n73/n74... Again, adiós... Too much driving (in areas) along both of these routes to either LIRR Hicksville or LIRR Wantagh.... There's a serious lack of demand for these two routes (compared to the n80/81) - despite the outcries now from Levittown proper.... Lol.....

 

* n80/n81.... Neither is anything to rave about, but the n81 always had more going for it over the n80..... If push came to shove, I would have kept the n81... But I can understand why NICE is (basically) cleaning up the MTA's/LIB's mess with some of these routes....

 

To sum it up, NICE/Veolia isn't going to do it, but the entire bus network needs to be blown up & started from scratch....

-------------

 

Forgot about the 19 & the 20 route changes...

 

* n19 cutback to the mall I agree with... However, service should have never been cut to hourly... Usage was increasing before the Veolia takeover, and of the few times I've drove along Merrick rd (to get to Sunrise) after the takeover, I've seen some crushloaded n19's... So I can only imagine how packed these buses are going to end up being....

 

* n20... While I see the logic (I'm sorry, I'm not buying OTP as a reason they decided to make this change), I don't agree with (basically) a full time shuttle running b/w Queens & LIRR Great Neck.... The Q12 to Great Neck supporters are going to love this one, because it justifies their position.... More n20's should run b/w Roslyn & Flushing..... The n20 core routing b/w Flushing & Hicksville, you knew those days were going to be numbered - it was only a matter of when.....

 

I don't predict a massive amount of turnover b/w the n20G & n20H (well at least, to the tune that a lot of people are predicting).... I predict there's going to be a significant increase in turnover b/w the n20H & the LIRR..... Basically, what I'm saying is, if you add up the ridership that the n20G & the n20H will garner, it'll end up being less than what the total ridership of what the n20 is (well, will be, come January 17th or whenever)....