NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I sincerely think NICE is going to slowly, eventually, turn into a bus system whose sole purpose will be to connect Nassau & Queens.....

 

Back when folks on the forums were using wordplay w/ the acronym, the "inter county" part of it raised my suspicions from day one... The intra county riders apparently don't matter.... I'm telling you right now, "n20" service will be relegated to (what will be now) the n20G... I don't see that n20H (as is) lasting very long.....

 

Anyway, as I understand it, the n2/8, 14, 17, 46, 50, 51, 62, 73/74, 80, and 81 will get the axe & the n19 will get cut back to the mall....

The n20G/H thing, I just learned from watching Pinepower's latest video what that plan entails....

 

* First off, the n2 & the n8 shouldn't have been combined, nor should it have been turned into that loop type of routing it has.... Both of those routes should have been cut, it's futile to try to garner in that portion of the western part of the county.... Noticable north-south usage doesn't really begin in Nassau due east (from the county line, that is) until you hit the n25.... It has been like that for the longest.....

 

* n14, adios... I don't ever remember a time where there has been anything greater than N93 ridership!

 

* n17... From what I've been reasing, the consensus is to divert n16's to the hospital.... I actually think there should be an n15x or w/e that runs over the n17 portion, with each trip doing this running to RFM - The only question is, how frequent should this service be.....

 

* n46 (structurally) is not NICE's fault.... As is, I would have gotten rid of this route too... It's basically a gap filler/stop gap measure of a route that runs to LIRR Bellmore (of all places).... The general issue with bus service b/w HTC (Hempstead) & East Meadow are the sheer amt. of duplicate services there are..... There's simply too much fat.

 

* n50.... IDK how things are (usage-wise) necessarily w/ NICE, but back in the day, it generally was utilized more over than the N46... I personally think this route should've stayed...

 

* n51... May as well get rid of this route.... I'm not being funny, but Jews (esp. in suburbia) aren't thinking twice about taking the bus.... Merrick (north & south) has a significant Jewish population.... Virtually no one is trying to get from RFM/NCCC to N/S Merrick..... That's the problem.....

 

* n62... Apparently, its usage got worse, because I remember times where you would see at least 10-15 ppl. at a time (out of LIRR Freeport) taking this route..... Although I never really knew how far along the route they were taking it to..... Ah well....

 

* n73/n74... Again, adiós... Too much driving (in areas) along both of these routes to either LIRR Hicksville or LIRR Wantagh.... There's a serious lack of demand for these two routes (compared to the n80/81) - despite the outcries now from Levittown proper.... Lol.....

 

* n80/n81.... Neither is anything to rave about, but the n81 always had more going for it over the n80..... If push came to shove, I would have kept the n81... But I can understand why NICE is (basically) cleaning up the MTA's/LIB's mess with some of these routes....

 

To sum it up, NICE/Veolia isn't going to do it, but the entire bus network needs to be blown up & started from scratch....

-------------

 

Forgot about the 19 & the 20 route changes...

 

* n19 cutback to the mall I agree with... However, service should have never been cut to hourly... Usage was increasing before the Veolia takeover, and of the few times I've drove along Merrick rd (to get to Sunrise) after the takeover, I've seen some crushloaded n19's... So I can only imagine how packed these buses are going to end up being....

 

* n20... While I see the logic (I'm sorry, I'm not buying OTP as a reason they decided to make this change), I don't agree with (basically) a full time shuttle running b/w Queens & LIRR Great Neck.... The Q12 to Great Neck supporters are going to love this one, because it justifies their position.... More n20's should run b/w Roslyn & Flushing..... The n20 core routing b/w Flushing & Hicksville, you knew those days were going to be numbered - it was only a matter of when.....

 

I don't predict a massive amount of turnover b/w the n20G & n20H (well at least, to the tune that a lot of people are predicting).... I predict there's going to be a significant increase in turnover b/w the n20H & the LIRR..... Basically, what I'm saying is, if you add up the ridership that the n20G & the n20H will garner, it'll end up being less than what the total ridership of what the n20 is (well, will be, come January 17th or whenever)....

n2/n8: I agree that I wouldn't have done the loop for the n2/n8. However, I would have kept the n2, and reroute the bus to N Hyde Park Road, in order to give riders a connection to the n25. I would've maintained some service there between the n1 and the n25, but not as much as given. The n2 would operate from 6 AM to 8 PM Weekdays, 8 AM to 7 PM on Saturdays, hourly.

 

Originally, the MTA (when they started the n8), apparently was going to send the route to Hempstead via Hempstead Turnpike supplementing the n6, but didn't have enough money allocated, so it terminated at Hempstead Turnpike/ New Hyde Park Rd). I wonder if it would've stayed, like the n45 (which I believe only stayed because the Uniondale Avenue segment brings up the ridership).

 

n14: I agree that it should be gone. It's interesting how 12 years ago, the route run from about 5 AM to 9 PM, every 10 minutes during the rush, and 30 outside, to then be a dedunct route (First it was evening service cut, then some rush service, then midday service, and half the rush service, to now all the remaining service).

 

n19: IMO, I would've kept the bus past Sunrise Mall. While ridership was not as high, I still believe there was more ridership than with the Park/ Camp Ave segments on the n45 pre- April 2012.

 

n20/n21: I didn't agree the reasoning for the change or the change at all. Not too fond of the n21 weekend service coming back either, and DH costs would be increased, so I believe that this is cost neutral. The only positive is not having to transfer to the n20 at Glen Cove Road if you're heading there.

 

n50/n73/n74: I would've kept it, although ridership isnt much better than LIB days. I would've rerouted the n50 to run via Jerusalem to at least provide those people some bus service. The Southern section, I would have combined it with the n46/n47.

 

n46/n47: Well, I believe that the route has no essential use besides a Front Street service, which is really the only reason it is alive today. I would have, however, had the n46 run from Hicksville to Wantagh. It would cover the n73/74 portion up to N Jerusalem Road, then gone on N Jerusalem Rd to East Meadow Avenue, and follow its current routing to Hempstead. It would connect to the n50 if one needs to go to Bellmore, or if riders from the n50 need Wantagh. Instead of using 4 routes for all this, there would only be a need for two. The n46 would operate from 5 AM- 8 PM (from Hempstead), and 6 AM to 9 PM (from Wantagh). The First bus to Hempstead and the last two buses from Wantagh would originate/ terminate at 700 Commercial Avenue.

 

n51: While I am for preserving as much coverage as possible, I have to agree, since most riders dont take the bus for long distances, and for the ones who do, there's other alternatives for them. I would've had the n45 loop around Merrick, like Pinepower mentioned in one of his videos before.

 

n80/n81: I would've kept the n81 too, since it serves areas farther out, to at least leave that area with some service.

[mac5689]

 

s for the S63 and S61, transfers can be made at the District courts

 

Can't transfer at the District Court anymore. The District Court is no longer a stop. All transfers are now made at the Patchouge Rail Road Station. (Not to mention that before the change the S63 and S61 could transfer at both the LIRR and District Court)

Edited January 10, 2016 by mac5689

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Can't transfer at the District Court anymore. The District Court is no longer a stop. All transfers are now made at the Patchouge Rail Road Station. (Not to mention that before the change the S63 and S61 could transfer at both the LIRR and District Court)

Well that's stupid. I would've kept that stop.

 

Anyways, I was going through subchat recently and found out something interesting. So apparently, starting January 19, All Island Taxi will operate the n14 as a commuter van service. The fare would be $4.00, with no transfers to NICE Buses.

http://liherald.com/rockvillecentre/stories/Taxi-to-replace-Rockville-Centre-Loop-bus,75347

Edited January 10, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[checkmatechamp13]

I sincerely think NICE is going to slowly, eventually, turn into a bus system whose sole purpose will be to connect Nassau & Queens.....

 

* n17... From what I've been reasing, the consensus is to divert n16's to the hospital.... I actually think there should be an n15x or w/e that runs over the n17 portion, with each trip doing this running to RFM - The only question is, how frequent should this service be.....

 

* n46 (structurally) is not NICE's fault.... As is, I would have gotten rid of this route too... It's basically a gap filler/stop gap measure of a route that runs to LIRR Bellmore (of all places)....  The general issue with bus service b/w HTC (Hempstead) & East Meadow are the sheer amt. of duplicate services there are..... There's simply too much fat.

 

* n50.... IDK how things are (usage-wise) necessarily w/ NICE, but back in the day, it generally was utilized more over than the N46... I personally think this route should've stayed...

 

* n80/n81.... Neither is anything to rave about, but the n81 always had more going for it over the n80..... If push came to shove, I would have kept the n81... But I can understand why NICE is (basically) cleaning up the MTA's/LIB's mess with some of these routes....

 

n17: That's an interesting idea. So you're saying that the demand on the RVC-Long Beach portion is higher than the RVC-Hempstead portion? Makes sense.

 

For what it's worth, the back entrances to the hospital seem to be directly behind Molloy College, so distance-wise, it's not the worst thing to have people just take the n16. Of course, given what people usually go to hospitals for (medical treatment), it's probably better to have a few trips stopping in front. 

 

n46: They're not cutting any fat between Hempstead & East Meadow. Those n46 trips are simply being turned into n47 trips.

 

I think the n50, n73, and n81 should've stayed (for the n81, I liked Pinepower's idea of running it up Woodbury & South Oyster Bay Road). Maybe to compensate, just remove those extra n47 trips.

 

n19: IMO, I would've kept the bus past Sunrise Mall. While ridership was not as high, I still believe there was more ridership than with the Park/ Camp Ave segments on the n45 pre- April 2012.

 

n20/n21: I didn't agree the reasoning for the change or the change at all. Not too fond of the n21 weekend service coming back either, and DH costs would be increased, so I believe that this is cost neutral. The only positive is not having to transfer to the n20 at Glen Cove Road if you're heading there

 

I think the n19 was cut purely because it runs within Suffolk County, so it's SCT's responsibility to provide service. The n72 is the stronger of the two NICE routes out of Babylon, and there's fewer alternatives (and also, if they cut it back with the idea of SCT taking over, there's no good place to terminate the route on the western end. Farmingdale LIRR? Maybe have it supplement the S1 up to Huntington? Either way, ridership on that leg wouldn't be as strong as n72 ridership now)

 

A while back, we had a discussion about how S20 usage was generally greater than N19 usage east of Sunrise, and one idea could be to extend the S40 to either Amityville or Sunrise (instead of the famous S20/S40 combination). With the LIRR traveling from Babylon to RVC for $3 at the frequencies it does, but yet you have to transfer at Babylon to points east (with less frequent service and a higher fare to boot), you might be able to boost Montauk Highway usage (again, east of Sunrise) by having the S40 cover it instead of the n19.

 

The n21 interlines with the n27 on weekends and off-peak. I think they needed to increase the runtime of the n27 to improve reliability, so they bumped it over an hour, and had it interline with the n21. Plus, it prevents Glen Cove from having a 3-seat ride to Flushing. (Which really, I think Glen Cove gets the short end of the stick when it comes to bus service)

[B35 via Church]

n2/n8: I agree that I wouldn't have done the loop for the n2/n8. However, I would have kept the n2, and reroute the bus to N Hyde Park Road, in order to give riders a connection to the n25. I would've maintained some service there between the n1 and the n25, but not as much as given. The n2 would operate from 6 AM to 8 PM Weekdays, 8 AM to 7 PM on Saturdays, hourly.

 

Originally, the MTA (when they started the n8), apparently was going to send the route to Hempstead via Hempstead Turnpike supplementing the n6, but didn't have enough money allocated, so it terminated at Hempstead Turnpike/ New Hyde Park Rd). I wonder if it would've stayed, like the n45 (which I believe only stayed because the Uniondale Avenue segment brings up the ridership).

 

n14: I agree that it should be gone. It's interesting how 12 years ago, the route run from about 5 AM to 9 PM, every 10 minutes during the rush, and 30 outside, to then be a dedunct route (First it was evening service cut, then some rush service, then midday service, and half the rush service, to now all the remaining service).

 

n19: IMO, I would've kept the bus past Sunrise Mall. While ridership was not as high, I still believe there was more ridership than with the Park/ Camp Ave segments on the n45 pre- April 2012.

 

n20/n21: I didn't agree the reasoning for the change or the change at all. Not too fond of the n21 weekend service coming back either, and DH costs would be increased, so I believe that this is cost neutral. The only positive is not having to transfer to the n20 at Glen Cove Road if you're heading there.

 

n50/n73/n74: I would've kept it, although ridership isnt much better than LIB days. I would've rerouted the n50 to run via Jerusalem to at least provide those people some bus service. The Southern section, I would have combined it with the n46/n47.

 

n46/n47: Well, I believe that the route has no essential use besides a Front Street service, which is really the only reason it is alive today. I would have, however, had the n46 run from Hicksville to Wantagh. It would cover the n73/74 portion up to N Jerusalem Road, then gone on N Jerusalem Rd to East Meadow Avenue, and follow its current routing to Hempstead. It would connect to the n50 if one needs to go to Bellmore, or if riders from the n50 need Wantagh. Instead of using 4 routes for all this, there would only be a need for two. The n46 would operate from 5 AM- 8 PM (from Hempstead), and 6 AM to 9 PM (from Wantagh). The First bus to Hempstead and the last two buses from Wantagh would originate/ terminate at 700 Commercial Avenue.

 

n51: While I am for preserving as much coverage as possible, I have to agree, since most riders dont take the bus for long distances, and for the ones who do, there's other alternatives for them. I would've had the n45 loop around Merrick, like Pinepower mentioned in one of his videos before.

 

n80/n81: I would've kept the n81 too, since it serves areas farther out, to at least leave that area with some service.

- The n2/8 even as separate routes were horrid, usage-wise... I can understand why NICE tried their hand at combining the two & thinking that it would work out...  But anyway, I would do something totally different to the n2; it's explained in the proposals thread (well, after I finish this post, I'll get back to finishing that post).....

 

- Looking at the overall network, the problem w/ (keeping) the n19 to Babylon is that the n72 quite noticeably carries more in & out of it.... You didn't/don't need both of those services running to Babylon.... Suffolk riders aren't really thinking about the n19 (they have the S20 & 33 at their arsenal; the 20 for Babylon in-particular), and Nassau ridership basically tanked at the mall... Put 2 & 2 together & it makes sense to cut that portion of the n19..... Simply put, to Babylon, there are more Hempstead Tpke riders using n72's than there were Merrick rd. riders taking n19's... Putting that another way, the n72 is more vital for Nassau-Suffolk service.....I don't have a problem with the n19 cut in the slightest....

 

- Regarding the n20.... Yeah, but you have to be realistic though.... There is simply too much dead mileage (non-usage) b/w Roslyn & Hicksville to keep as many n20's running to Hicksville.... Don't know about any n21 change to comment....

 

(Side note: What I've always found odd about the n20 is that it seldom gets usage at Broadway Mall (either direction))......

 

- About Front st (and this is where I blame the MTA), I never liked how the network was setup for routes along Front St, nor Hempstead Tpke.... Front st services are in excess, and the Hempstead Tpke services are running to areas due east, just so that they arbitrarily terminate somewhere (I feel that way for ALL 3 of those routes; the n70/71/ and 72).....

 

 

n17: That's an interesting idea. So you're saying that the demand on the RVC-Long Beach portion is higher than the RVC-Hempstead portion? Makes sense.

 

For what it's worth, the back entrances to the hospital seem to be directly behind Molloy College, so distance-wise, it's not the worst thing to have people just take the n16. Of course, given what people usually go to hospitals for (medical treatment), it's probably better to have a few trips stopping in front. 

 

n46: They're not cutting any fat between Hempstead & East Meadow. Those n46 trips are simply being turned into n47 trips.

 

I think the n50, n73, and n81 should've stayed (for the n81, I liked Pinepower's idea of running it up Woodbury & South Oyster Bay Road). Maybe to compensate, just remove those extra n47 trips.

n15/17: More or less, I'm saying a lot of that ridership b/w Long Beach & LIRR RVC are heading to Hempstead proper (of those that aren't getting off for the Babylon line, obviously)..... There was always decent usage along Woodfield (more than enough to keep the 15 along it), yes, but if I were to start up an express variant of the route, I wouldn't have it use Woodfield over Peninsula (which is basically dead).... That's what I'm driving at.... If you want to call that rendition of an n15x a super express, then I admit, I'm guilty.... But I think the n15 locally from Long Beach to HTC is too damn slow....

 

n46: Alright, I went back & re-read the initial source from which I got my info from.... I was looking for a quick, cliffnoted list of what routes were going to be eliminated, so I could post my retorts in this thread..... I stand corrected on that.

 

It states that:

"Although NICE CEO Mike Setzer has acknowledged that service cuts are unpopular with riders, the BTC voted to eliminate all 10 routes, including the N2/8, N14, N17, N46, N50, N51, N62, N73/74, N80 and N81 (along with with a service reduction on the N19 route). Setzer cited low ridership on the routes, making the 40 foot buses inefficient to operate."

[mac5689]

Well that's stupid. I would've kept that stop.

 

Probably done so riders could easily get to the Railroad Station. Either that or something with the District Court itself made the stop either not usable or unable to continue as a stop. I know a few years ago they moved the old Patchouge Library to the site. 

 

Interestingly the court house parking lot didn't always use to be the stop for the district court, for a long time the stop for the district court use to be on Main Street/Montauk Hwy in front of the court building. 

[DS4Ever]

Wait a minute so the transit lot. Of patchogue is obsolete no longer at use...all SCT buses terminating at. Patchogu . Will be at. The. RR. Station and not atthe lot

[checkmatechamp13]

Wait a minute so the transit lot. Of patchogue is obsolete no longer at use...all SCT buses terminating at. Patchogu . Will be at. The. RR. Station and not atthe lot

 

Yes, all of the Patchogue buses terminate at the LIRR station itself. I took the S40 to the S66, and transferred right here. (I have a video an LIRR train crossing in front of us as we waited at the crossing).

 

We still pass by the district courts on Main Street, though. I think there's a stop in the general vicinity. (It might be the one directly in front that mac5689 is referring to). 

 

It may be wishful thinking, but hopefully it'll boost ridership a little bit, having all of the buses terminate there. Aside from making it easier for those who live south of the tracks, a lot of LIRR trains terminate there as well. So maybe if somebody sees "S68 Bellport" or any other sign for that matter, it might pique their curiosity as to where the bus goes, and if it might be a good backup option in case there's a problem with their car or the LIRR or something. (Hey, I remember once, some random resident stopped a bus in the middle of the route to ask if it went to a particular location and how long it takes, so anything's possible).

Edited January 11, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[DS4Ever]

Well it does read. "Patchogue RR" and thus should terminate adjacent to the station.

 

I was worried since in the RR station can accommodate many buses simultaneously

 

The courts bus stop should be the second to last stop on all bus lines terminate in patchogue (which i mean all of them) since it is the central stop to nearby main street. ..the walk from the RR stop to main st ain't that close a 10 minute walk might say

[checkmatechamp13]

Well it does read. "Patchogue RR" and thus should terminate adjacent to the station.

 

I was worried since in the RR station can accommodate many buses simultaneously

 

The courts bus stop should be the second to last stop on all bus lines terminate in patchogue (which i mean all of them) since it is the central stop to nearby main street. ..the walk from the RR stop to main st ain't that close a 10 minute walk might say

 

The S54, S61, S63, 7A, and 7B (IIRC) were the ones that originally terminated at the LIRR station itself (which is why the S40 says Patchogue, while the S54 says Patchogue RR). The S40, S66, and S68 terminated at the district courts (at this stop on South Street) On one hand, it's one fewer railroad crossing to potentially delay the bus. On the other hand, it makes it simpler when there's one bus terminal rather than two, and it makes sense to have easy access from the buses to the LIRR, even if in practice, few people use it (Plus, like I said, it prevents people from the south side of the tracks from having to cross them to reach certain buses)

[DS4Ever]

YEah you're right that crossing is dangerous i myself am paranoid of touching the rail lines gets me goosebumps that may get shock hehe

 

But the delay ain't that much to tell (a mere minute and a half) is like IF you're boarding a wheelchair passenger (which would take more time than the stopping in a RR toll booth like stopping sticks)...speaking of wheelchair i must add that wheelchair pay their fare in SCT (even a half fare at must)...why is it that in the MTA don't pay absolutely nothing and waste valuable 3 minutes of time that really is bad thing to do

[N6 Limited]

Nice made this reply to someone on their facebook page regarding the changes for 01/17/2016:

 

 

Nassau Inter-County Express / NICE Bus new timetables will be posted on the website and distributed by Wednesday. We will not be producing new bus maps until June

 

Interesting isn't it?

 

Also:

 

 

Nassau Inter-County Express / NICE Bus  a free transfer between the n20G/H and n21 in Great Neck has been built in, so that it will not be used as one of the 2 system transfers we offer

Nassau Inter-County Express / NICE Bus actually....most trip times will be very similiar to the current n20 schedule......in reality, because we expect both legs to run much more efficiently than the currenty n20....the overall travel time to/from Flushing could become shorter

 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Nice made this reply to someone on their facebook page regarding the changes for 01/17/2016:

 

 

Interesting isn't it?

 

Also:

Lol.

 

I don't understand why June out of all times, when the changes are right around the corner. Either that's foreshadowing another service change, or they department really sucks at making the bus maps. 

 

EDIT: NICE warns that another round of cuts may occur in June, they'll still be 3 million dollars in deficit, according to a post on their facebook page

 

 

 

These are very valid questions. These routes were selected for elimination based on their very low ridership. (It's important to note that the MTA also suggested cutting them in 2010 for the same reason) The n73/74 is a perfect example, we run many, many trips a day on this route where buses are completely empty. As a result, the cost of a single passenger ride for Nassau County on these routes

Is about $5.50 per person. Given the County's very delicate financial state, they simply can't afford to run empty buses.

 

Regarding Carrie Solanges proposal to post pone these cuts.....unfortunately that will only compound the problem. These cuts will save us 4.5 million dollars over 12 months.....to implement them later in the year will only mean we need to make even more service reductions over a shorter amount of time for the same 4.5 million in savings. It's a similar concept to paying off a $1200 bill at $100/month over 12 months.....versus making $200/month payments over 6 months.

 

And sadly, even after we make these service cuts, we'll still be 3 million in the hole. If we do not receive additional funding is Spring from the State or County, we'll need to make more cuts in June to balance the 2016 budget.

Edited January 13, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[N6 Limited]

This one also

 

 

Nassau Inter-County Express / NICE Bus Matt, the last thing we want to do is cut service, but we are currently running a 7.5 million dollar deficit for 2016 and are contractually obligated to stay with this budget. As a result, the Nassau County Bus Transit Committee decided in November to cut 11 of our least used, and most expensive to run routes, in an effort close this budget gap. This was done to affect the smallest number of customers possible. For example, the n51 carries only 2 percent of the total number of NCC students that NICE takes to and from the school every day. While, we realize that these buses are vital to the small number of riders that use them, the County simply can't afford to run empty or near empty buses.

I guess they have a point.

 

Someone asked about getting to school at Barricliffe College. They're going to have to walk to/from the n78/79 on Old Country Road.

[checkmatechamp13]

Lol.

 

I don't understand why June out of all times, when the changes are right around the corner. Either that's foreshadowing another service change, or they department really sucks at making the bus maps. 

 

EDIT: NICE warns that another round of cuts may occur in June, they'll still be 3 million dollars in deficit, according to a post on their facebook page

 

I figured that was the reason. I shudder to think about what they'll cut next. Already, they're almost down to the same level the MTA was at before NICE came in. (The only routes that have remotely low-ridership that are left are the n36, n47, n57, and maybe the n78). After that, you're basically at the same level the MTA was at when they were ready to cut the entire n19, n33, n54/55, n58, and n79. Unless they had some other motivation behind the n20/21 split that they're not letting on.

[NY1635]

I figured that was the reason. I shudder to think about what they'll cut next. Already, they're almost down to the same level the MTA was at before NICE came in. (The only routes that have remotely low-ridership that are left are the n36, n47, n57, and maybe the n78). After that, you're basically at the same level the MTA was at when they were ready to cut the entire n19, n33, n54/55, n58, and n79. Unless they had some other motivation behind the n20/21 split that they're not letting on.

 

NICE can cut the Hicksville-Jericho Quad n48 shuttles, get rid of n6x service to NCC, and the n47 to close the deficit. It's not much, but it's a start.

Edited January 13, 2016 by NY1635

[checkmatechamp13]

NICE can cut the Hicksville-Jericho Quad n48 shuttles, get rid of n6x service to NCC, and the n47 to close the deficit. It's not much, but it's a start.

 

I think the n6X to NCC was in place of those n16 short-turns which were put in place to prevent overcrowding, so I doubt that'll be going anywhere.

 

The MTA basically wanted to cut everything except for the N4, N6, N15, N20/21, N22/22A, N23, N24, N26, N27, N32, N35, N40/41, N43, N48/49, and N70/71/72. The N16 would've lost Saturday service, and the N25 would've lost Sunday service.

 

NICE's plan for 1/17/16 has all of those routes, plus the N1, N19 (west of Sunrise), N33, N36, N45 (rush hours), N54/55, N57/58, and N78/79. (Of course, the N4X & N22X are brand-new, but I just consider them additional capacity to the busy main route).

 

Yeah, those Jericho Quad shuttles will probably go. Like we agreed, the N47 is probably next on the chopping block. The N57 was/is efficient despite being short, so that might stay. The N36 is almost definitely going to see cuts of some sort. The N78 is almost a short-turn of the N79, so it might stay for the same reasons as the N26 (you'd have to add back the equivalent amount of service to the N79 to prevent them buses from being overcrowded). With the way NICE seems to like deadheading buses, maybe they'll cut the service to run outbound in the AM, and inbound in the PM only (so Plainview residents traveling to/from Hicksville see less service, but people going out to the hospital and office park don't). 

 

N25 Sunday service was inefficient in terms of cost-per passenger when the MTA ran it, so I wouldn't put it past NICE to cut that. Not sure how the N1 is performing nowadays, so I'm not sure if they'd make any cuts to that. Likewise for the N33 and (shortened) N19.

[mac5689]

Well that's stupid. I would've kept that stop.

 

 

Rumor has it that in 11 days the District Court stop is going to be reinstated but this time it's going to be for all Patchouge routes. 

[Amtrak7]

I figured that was the reason. I shudder to think about what they'll cut next. Already, they're almost down to the same level the MTA was at before NICE came in. (The only routes that have remotely low-ridership that are left are the n36, n47, n57, and maybe the n78). After that, you're basically at the same level the MTA was at when they were ready to cut the entire n19, n33, n54/55, n58, and n79. Unless they had some other motivation behind the n20/21 split that they're not letting on.

 

In terms of what's next, this is all that's left within reason:

• n45
• n47 (not sure what to do about Front St service...divert some n70/71 trips?)
• n21 (keep same headway on Northern Blvd)
• n36
• n57
• n70 east of SUNY Farmingdale
• n58 north of USMMA (only a few minutes, but every dollar counts)
• n48 Jericho Quad shuttles
• n24 RFM-East Meadow

Even if the n57 is efficient, I doubt it covers its variable operating costs, so cutting it would still save $, though less per passenger than some other routes.

 

n78: The ridership on this route is almost completely reverse peak (the peak direction buses only carry a handful), and the timing of the PM trips allows it to act as a relief for the n79. Short turning it at Manetto Hill is one option, though I can't think of a good layover location...the heavy stops are Morton Village and the hospital.

 

Some sort of restructuring of the Nassau Hub area might be in order in terms of which routes serve which of the 4 centers.

 

How does the n1 do south of Green Acres? I can't imagine it doing terribly well.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Amtrak7

[N6 Limited]

Some sort of restructuring of the Nassau Hub area might be in order in terms of which routes serve which of the 4 centers.

 

How does the n1 do south of Green Acres? I can't imagine it doing terribly well.

The n1 generally runs light south of Green Acres, but it also connects to the n31/n32.

[checkmatechamp13]

In terms of what's next, this is all that's left within reason:

• n45
• n47 (not sure what to do about Front St service...divert some n70/71 trips?)
• n21 (keep same headway on Northern Blvd)
• n36
• n57
• n70 east of SUNY Farmingdale
• n58 north of USMMA (only a few minutes, but every dollar counts)
• n48 Jericho Quad shuttles
• n24 RFM-East Meadow

Even if the n57 is efficient, I doubt it covers its variable operating costs, so cutting it would still save $, though less per passenger than some other routes.

 

n78: The ridership on this route is almost completely reverse peak (the peak direction buses only carry a handful), and the timing of the PM trips allows it to act as a relief for the n79. Short turning it at Manetto Hill is one option, though I can't think of a good layover location...the heavy stops are Morton Village and the hospital.

 

Some sort of restructuring of the Nassau Hub area might be in order in terms of which routes serve which of the 4 centers.

 

How does the n1 do south of Green Acres? I can't imagine it doing terribly well.

 

Looks like they took your advice about the n45 a little too soon.....I don't see a schedule for it on their schedule changes page.

 

It seems like the put-in location for the n79 is Manetto Hill & Woodbury, which is roughly the same distance from Manetto Hill & OCR as the n78 terminal. For simplicity's sake, it's probably better to just have n78 buses keep running the way they do now, which offers access to an easy turnaround.

 

FWIW, they said they managed to get the n73/74 cost per passenger down to $5.39 (on their FB page in response to somebody's comments). Back in the MTA says, it was $9+. So it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world if the n57 did cover its variable operating costs.

[Amtrak7]

Looks like they took your advice about the n45 a little too soon.....I don't see a schedule for it on their schedule changes page.

 

Because the schedule isn't changing. The old one stays.

 

Is that $5.39 cost per passenger or subsidy per passenger? They did halve midday service, so that would drop the number a lot. They also tightened the turns a lot.

[checkmatechamp13]

Because the schedule isn't changing. The old one stays.

 

Is that $5.39 cost per passenger or subsidy per passenger? They did halve midday service, so that would drop the number a lot. They also tightened the turns a lot.

 

The exact quote was "These are very valid questions. These routes were selected for elimination based on their very low ridership. (It's important to note that the MTA also suggested cutting them in 2010 for the same reason) The n73/74 is a perfect example, we run many, many trips a day on this route where buses are completely empty. As a result, the cost of a single passenger ride for Nassau County on these routes Is about $5.50 per person. Given the County's very delicate financial state, they simply can't afford to run empty buses."

 

So I'm assuming that's subsidy per passenger (I originally assumed they were referring to cost per passenger). Alright, so the n57 likely doesn't cover its direct operating costs. Still, that's pretty impressive. They got the eastern Nassau routes down to the (approximate) same level as South Shore of SI routes, as opposed to 50% higher.

 

With the n73, getting rid of that diversion in Levittown allowed them to run the route with one bus. I guess during rush hour, the n73 & n74 interlined, so it was 2 buses covering it. (Not sure how the MTA had it set up, whether they just had those routes interline, or whether they just gave the B/Os a longer layover).

[NY1635]

In terms of what's next, this is all that's left within reason:

• n45
• n47 (not sure what to do about Front St service...divert some n70/71 trips?)
• n21 (keep same headway on Northern Blvd)
• n36
• n57
• n70 east of SUNY Farmingdale
• n58 north of USMMA (only a few minutes, but every dollar counts)
• n48 Jericho Quad shuttles
• n24 RFM-East Meadow

Even if the n57 is efficient, I doubt it covers its variable operating costs, so cutting it would still save $, though less per passenger than some other routes.

 

n78: The ridership on this route is almost completely reverse peak (the peak direction buses only carry a handful), and the timing of the PM trips allows it to act as a relief for the n79. Short turning it at Manetto Hill is one option, though I can't think of a good layover location...the heavy stops are Morton Village and the hospital.

 

Some sort of restructuring of the Nassau Hub area might be in order in terms of which routes serve which of the 4 centers.

 

How does the n1 do south of Green Acres? I can't imagine it doing terribly well.

 

 

Front Street can live without the n47, just let the n48/49 handle that corridor. How would NICE go about restructuring the Nassau Hub area?

[checkmatechamp13]

Front Street can live without the n47, just let the n48/49 handle that corridor. How would NICE go about restructuring the Nassau Hub area?

 

He's asking capacity-wise, can the n48/49 handle Front Street by themselves?

 

For the Nassau Hub area, after 1/17/16, we're going to have the following routes at the following hubs:

 

RFM: n15, n16, n22/22A/22X, n24, n27, n35, n43, n45

 

NCC: n6X, n16, n35, n43, n45

 

NCDSS (60 Charles Lindbergh Blvd): n16, n27, n43, n45, n24 (select rush hour trips)

 

Mineola: n22, n23, n24, n40/41

 

I think the n27 could be cut back from Hempstead to the RFM (except during hours when it's needed for capacity reasons. i.e. NCC dismissal times when the n16 & n35 get crowded). Those n24 trips to RxR Plaza can be cut back to the RFM. 

 

Not really sure what else can really be done. Maybe some restructuring of the n6X, n16, and n35 out of NCC. There should definitely be something directly connecting NCC to both the RFM and Hempstead, for connections to the other routes over there. (Which in this case, both the n16 & n35 serve both purposes). I don't think having more n35s bypass NCC and leaving the n16 & n6X covering it would offer enough capacity to accommodate NCC students, though.

Edited January 14, 2016 by checkmatechamp13