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CDTA

Why did the O6's get retired?

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I am well aware they were old.... But I didn't remember them being THAT old. After all, they're still running them up here. :confused::confused:

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Interestingly enough, our old Orion VIs turned up on a bus dealer's website about two years ago for about $15,000 apiece. I did a little research and discovered about 12 different recalls out on 1998-99 Orion VIs for things like electrical components catching fire and steering linkage pins snapping during normal operation. The buses were listed as "not guaranteed to be in running condition," which as far as I can determine means that they'd probably have to be towed off the lot and extensively rehabbed before they'd be fit for revenue service.

 

Based on all that, my best guess is that the Orion VIs got retired when they did because they were major lemons and the issues were severe enough that (MTA) didn't want to continue with that model or deal with the expense and hassle of maintaining a rather sickly orphan fleet in revenue service for the long haul. I would also bet that a lot of the electrical problems were much less of an issue for the CDTA than they were for us; the buses you have up there are diesel whereas ours were using a very early version of BAE HybriDrive (which I'm betting still had a few serious kinks at the time). Furthermore, New York is pretty good at beating the crap out of its buses, so something that will barely be able to limp along in New York might run just fine in a small to mid-sized suburban outfit like CDTA.

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I remember that being up. Is that still there?:confused:

 

Sadly, no. I know because I was working with a community arts program at the time and we were considering buying one, refurbishing it with the help of students and the community, and turning it into an EcoMobile of sorts. The idea was that our older students (and a driver, of course) would take the bus to local afterschool programs and fill it with exhibits geared to teach younger kids about the environment. Unfortunately, the funding and logistics fell through before it could get off the ground, and by the time I called the procurement people at (MTA) they told me they were scrapping the buses.

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Idk they're still up here for sale @ 15k a piece

 

(4) 1998 & (5) 1999 Orion VI Hybrid Buses FOR SALE.

 

Holy crap... I think I know what I'd like to buy for graduation.... :P

 

Seriously, though, that would make one hell of a fixer-upper project for me after I get out of college, and it would be something I've wanted to do since I was little.

 

While we're at it, they're also hocking an old Fishbowl for about $6500.

Edited by engineerboy6561

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Sadly, no. I know because I was working with a community arts program at the time and we were considering buying one, refurbishing it with the help of students and the community, and turning it into an EcoMobile of sorts. The idea was that our older students (and a driver, of course) would take the bus to local afterschool programs and fill it with exhibits geared to teach younger kids about the environment. Unfortunately, the funding and logistics fell through before it could get off the ground, and by the time I called the procurement people at (MTA) they told me they were scrapping the buses.

 

Do you know how much it would cost to refurbish that bus? And to get it in safe running condition?? You guys would are better off having not been able to purchase that bus...

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Do you know how much it would cost to refurbish that bus? And to get it in safe running condition?? You guys would are better off having not been able to purchase that bus...

 

You're right about that; I was fifteen and quite stupid, and it wasn't exactly one of my better-planned ideas either (which is why it was all the more surprising that several of the adults there were fairly gung ho about this). It was one of those things that you think about and you say to yourself "Damn, it would be awesome if..." and when nobody reminded me what kind of a financial and logistical nightmare it would have been, I actually pursued it for a bit in case it got off the ground. Thankfully for all involved, it didn't, and I learned a few things from the experience.

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I wouldn't invest in these though... with a crap load of recalls and electrical issues and I think it has a low Mdbf. might not be a good idea.

Edited by dmouse

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I wouldn't invest in these though... with a crap load of recalls and electrical programs and I think it has a low Mdbf. might not be a good idea.

 

I don't think they were really recording mdbf when the O6's were rolling on these streets..

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Interestingly enough, our old Orion VIs turned up on a bus dealer's website about two years ago for about $15,000 apiece. I did a little research and discovered about 12 different recalls out on 1998-99 Orion VIs for things like electrical components catching fire and steering linkage pins snapping during normal operation. The buses were listed as "not guaranteed to be in running condition," which as far as I can determine means that they'd probably have to be towed off the lot and extensively rehabbed before they'd be fit for revenue service.

 

Based on all that, my best guess is that the Orion VIs got retired when they did because they were major lemons and the issues were severe enough that (MTA) didn't want to continue with that model or deal with the expense and hassle of maintaining a rather sickly orphan fleet in revenue service for the long haul. I would also bet that a lot of the electrical problems were much less of an issue for the CDTA than they were for us; the buses you have up there are diesel whereas ours were using a very early version of BAE HybriDrive (which I'm betting still had a few serious kinks at the time). Furthermore, New York is pretty good at beating the crap out of its buses, so something that will barely be able to limp along in New York might run just fine in a small to mid-sized suburban outfit like CDTA.

 

The NYCT Orion VI's were hybrid not diesel. They are Lockheed hybrids similar to the RTS that showed up in 2000. The buses were major lemons and had multiple problems causing them to be retired well before the end of their useful lifes.. That was also what caused the demise of the Nova RTS hybrid.... They had major component problems.

 

The initial hybrid runs were to be as followed....

 

Orion VI 6350-6359

Nova RTS 6360-6364 (6360 and 6361 were built and later scrapped)

Orion VII 6365-6489

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The NYCT Orion VI's were hybrid not diesel. They are Lockheed hybrids similar to the RTS that showed up in 2000. The buses were major lemons and had multiple problems causing them to be retired well before the end of their useful lifes.. That was also what caused the demise of the Nova RTS hybrid.... They had major component problems.

 

The initial hybrid runs were to be as followed....

 

Orion VI 6350-6359

Nova RTS 6360-6364 (6360 and 6361 were built and later scrapped)

Orion VII 6365-6489

 

I always thought that the failures of the VI and RTS hybrids were sad...

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The NYCT Orion VI's were hybrid not diesel. They are Lockheed hybrids similar to the RTS that showed up in 2000. The buses were major lemons and had multiple problems causing them to be retired well before the end of their useful lifes.. That was also what caused the demise of the Nova RTS hybrid.... They had major component problems.

 

The initial hybrid runs were to be as followed....

 

Orion VI 6350-6359

Nova RTS 6360-6364 (6360 and 6361 were built and later scrapped)

Orion VII 6365-6489

 

2 questions:

1. Was this going to be some kind of a test like the BT&E program?

2. What made the Orion VII different from the Orion VI and Nova RTS hybrid?

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2 questions:

1. Was this going to be some kind of a test like the BT&E program?

2. What made the Orion VII different from the Orion VI and Nova RTS hybrid?

 

It was supposed to be a pilot program. Not too much different from the BT&E we know today. They were to have a fleet of O6's and a fleet of RTS'. They were going to evaluate the systems, and likely order more of both models in the future. However, both programs failed, and MTA said they would not order anymore Orion VI's or Nova RTS' period. Lockheed subsequently discontinued its hybrid offering.

 

The Orion VII uses a totally different system(BAE) with Cummins. The Orion VI, and Nova RTS used Detroit Diesel engines with the Lockheed propulsion system. The BAE system proved to be much more reliable.

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It was supposed to be a pilot program. Not too much different from the BT&E we know today. They were to have a fleet of O6's and a fleet of RTS'. They were going to evaluate the systems, and likely order more of both models in the future. However, both programs failed, and MTA said they would not order anymore Orion VI's or Nova RTS' period. Lockheed subsequently discontinued its hybrid offering.

 

The Orion VII uses a totally different system(BAE) with Cummins. The Orion VI, and Nova RTS used Detroit Diesel engines with the Lockheed propulsion system. The BAE system proved to be much more reliable.

 

Lockheed is BAE Systems. BAE brought them out around 1998 I think, and the current BAE HybriDrive is based upon the same design as the Lockheed system was, albeit with many improvements.

 

I believe GE was originally supplying some of the electric propulsion components to Lockheed, such as electric motirs and generators. Alsi, the very early Orion VI hybrids used Nickel Cadium (Ni-Cad) batteries.

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Lockheed is BAE Systems. BAE brought them out around 1998 I think, and the current BAE HybriDrive is based upon the same design as the Lockheed system was, albeit with many improvements.

 

I believe GE was originally supplying some of the electric propulsion components to Lockheed, such as electric motirs and generators. Alsi, the very early Orion VI hybrids used Nickel Cadium (Ni-Cad) batteries.

 

Close, but Lockheed isn't BAE. When Lockheed (which is still in business) discontinued it's hybrid offering, BAE purchased the technology assets of that division only. They used some of the technology after the asset purchase, but its really an entirely different system. The only thing thats pretty much the same is the base of the series system.

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