Short-turning B44s at Fulton Street

[Acela Express]

I know we have B44SBS coming in a few months, but thinking with the B44s being the least reliable line in the entire borough, they should probably short-turn a few buses at Fulton Street, similar to what's being done on the B46 when there's LTD / local service from Kings Plaza to Eastern Parkway to handle the transfers from the 3 & 4 trains, B14 & B17 routes heading southbound. It would work the same way with keeping the buses where service is heavily needed on the B44. In this case, they can short-turn a few B44s, preferably LTDs, at Fulton Street to handle the train crowds from the A & C trains during rush hours, then perhaps terminate at the Junction (Flatbush Avenue).

 

They do this with the B41s as well for the Bergen Beach branch were 3 or 4 runs are considered shuttles AM & PM rushes. Instance: run 80 during the week is the PM shuttle for Bergen Beach where you start at the Junction, load, transport to Bergen Beach, then deadhead back to the Junction to repeat. This is done about 5-6 times with this run during PM rush. I've done this run and it damn sure helps.

 

What say you?

[aemoreira81]

I would actually short-turn local runs there full-time to keep buses on the busiest segment of the route. I know about the Bergen Beach shuttle on the B41.

[NovaBus 5121]

I live and have lived near the intersection for about 15 years. There should be short-turns right there. The crowds right there are ridiculous for most hours of the day (all the way up to the late evening) but many times by the time the late 44 comes, buses are already packed. I think limiteds more than locals would be better based on what I observe daily, However, I know more about the demand and preference north of fulton then south, so I can't speak on that and how it would affect ridership south.

[Acela Express]

I would actually short-turn local runs there full-time to keep buses on the busiest segment of the route. I know about the Bergen Beach shuttle on the B41.

Well, the B44 has 102 runs during the week, and north of Fulton Street is still pretty busy as you can have a full load coming southbound into the Fulton Street stop on Nostrand Avenue. It's happened plenty of times. The short-turned buses that terminate at Flushing Avenue help, but not enough when you run into traffic, then have that full load hit Fulton Street.

 

*smh*

 

Note to NovaBus 5121: I live in the area too - the vicinity of Bergen St. & Nostrand Ave.

[NovaBus 5121]

Well, the B44 has 102 runs during the week, and north of Fulton Street is still pretty busy as you can have a full load coming southbound into the Fulton Street stop on Nostrand Avenue. It's happened plenty of times. The short-turned buses that terminate at Flushing Avenue help, but not enough when you run into traffic, then have that full load hit Fulton Street.

 

*smh*

 

Note to NovaBus 5121: I live in the area too - the vicinity of Bergen St. & Nostrand Ave.

 

It may also help to prevent fare-beating as it can be pretty rampant at that stop... (I can only imagine SBS and artics).

[Acela Express]

It may also help to prevent fare-beating as it can be pretty rampant at that stop... (I can only imagine SBS and artics).

Oh, those EAGLE team officers are gonna have a field day on the B44 with farebeaters. And you're right with that stop there's many entering through the backdoor, which is why I've made it a routine to open the backdoors and once it's open, put it back to the 2:00 position so it shuts when the last passenger lets go. It works for the most part. But even if it doesn't I just look to see how many enter, and that's how many times I hit F5.

[Rick44]

Oh, those EAGLE team officers are gonna have a field day on the B44 with farebeaters. And you're right with that stop there's many entering through the backdoor, which is why I've made it a routine to open the backdoors and once it's open, put it back to the 2:00 position so it shuts when the last passenger lets go. It works for the most part. But even if it doesn't I just look to see how many enter, and that's how many times I hit F5.

 

I have a question I've been wanting to know for a long time. What does pressing F5 do? And what happens if you press it too much?

[checkmatechamp13]

I have a question I've been wanting to know for a long time. What does pressing F5 do? And what happens if you press it too much?

 

It just records that a person got on without paying the fare, just for ridership purposes. I don't think anything happens to a driver who presses it too much. They might question it if it's something ridiculous (like if he presses it 50 times on a route that doesn't see a lot of farebeaters), but I doubt the B/O gets punished.

[Acela Express]

They might question it if it's something ridiculous (like if he presses it 50 times on a route that doesn't see a lot of farebeaters), but I doubt the B/O gets punished.

Not even. I know I've hit F5 over 50 times on the B41/44/46 routes.

 

Still waiting to be called in by the GS. lmao!

[checkmatechamp13]

Not even. I know I've hit F5 over 50 times on the B41/44/46 routes.

 

Still waiting to be called in by the GS. lmao!

 

That's why I said "On a route that doesn't see a lot of farebeaters" (in raw numbers). Like if somebody hit F5 50 times on the last S54 of the evening (which gets hardly anybody, paying or not), they'd probably question it. Or who knows? Maybe they wouldn't bother.

[Fresh Pond]

I thought they already have local short-turns from Sheepshead Bay cuz I seen a few before

[Acela Express]

I thought they already have local short-turns from Sheepshead Bay cuz I seen a few before

They have short-turns designated for local buses when LTDs are in operation, but what I'm posting about is short-turning buses at Fulton Street to pick-up the slack along the line during rush hours and such between there and Junction side.

[Future ENY OP]

Oh, those EAGLE team officers are gonna have a field day on the B44 with farebeaters. And you're right with that stop there's many entering through the backdoor, which is why I've made it a routine to open the backdoors and once it's open, put it back to the 2:00 position so it shuts when the last passenger lets go. It works for the most part. But even if it doesn't I just look to see how many enter, and that's how many times I hit F5.

 

Can't wait to see this unfold on the Junction and Church with the Eagle Team. Hot spots for farebeatters, coming off that 2/5 train to head to Sheepshead W/B. *prays that they monitor B41/103 stop also on Junction S/B.*

 

They are hitting the M15 pretty hard right now, spotted them on 1st Ave in Midtown.. Notice them alot within the last few weeks.

[Mysterious2train]

Don't forget Fulton St!

[Rick44]

It just records that a person got on without paying the fare, just for ridership purposes. I don't think anything happens to a driver who presses it too much. They might question it if it's something ridiculous (like if he presses it 50 times on a route that doesn't see a lot of farebeaters), but I doubt the B/O gets punished.

 

Thank you and Acela Express for answering my question.

[East New York]

On a WBP bound B44 as I post this. Destination: Fulton St.

 

I got on at NY Av, and Ave. D. After standing at the stop for nearly 10 minutes, 4 buses pulled up at the same time. Of course all of them were crush loaded. Now here is another problem.... The guide-a-ride says that no limiteds are running at this time, and locals run every 3-4 minutes. Very interesting seeing as the bus I am on, Nova #9689 is definitely limited!

 

So bact to the question at hand.... I definitely think there should be short turns at Fulton. Definitely NOT all locals at all times, but there could be a few. Flatbush Av. Short turns seem to work ok as well. Now, when I get to Fulton, I want to see how many of us are actually getting off there, and I will post on that in just a few minutes. Crossing Atlantic Av now. Still crush loaded of course.

[East New York]

Standing at the stop on Fulton still. 9604 LTD, 9684 LTD, 5193 local, 4593 local, and 5052 local all pulled up at the same time just now. More people got off the limiteds, including 9689 which I was on leading the pack. As for the local, no more that 4-6 people got off each bus which definitely proves my point that all locals should NOT short turn here. In fact, it appears as if only selected runs would benefit from short turning, and non of them should be during off peak hours like right now.

 

9679 LTD pulling up now and only 4 people got off. The only bus that was not standing room only was 5052.

[Acela Express]

There's always LTD service between 6AM and 10PM on the B44 during the week.

 

If you can get the run number and inbox it to me so I can look it up on the board when I go into work tomorrow afternoon. I want to see if they have anything new setup that I'm unaware of with terminations at Fulton Street. What does the sign say outside? Fulton & Nostrand?

 

*Sidenote: 5193 and 4593 are among my favorites to operate.

4593 seems to have a different hybrid drive system than the other NGs, along with 4242.

[East New York]

None of them ended at Fulton & NY Av/Nostrand, I was just commenting on, and checking out the viability of buses short turning there.

[Acela Express]

None of them ended at Fulton & NY Av/Nostrand, I was just commenting on, and checking out the viability of buses short turning there.

Alright, I was confused when you said "Destination: Fulton St", but now I see that was your stop.

[checkmatechamp13]

On a WBP bound B44 as I post this. Destination: Fulton St.

 

I got on at NY Av, and Ave. D. After standing at the stop for nearly 10 minutes, 4 buses pulled up at the same time. Of course all of them were crush loaded. Now here is another problem.... The guide-a-ride says that no limiteds are running at this time, and locals run every 3-4 minutes. Very interesting seeing as the bus I am on, Nova #9689 is definitely limited!

 

So bact to the question at hand.... I definitely think there should be short turns at Fulton. Definitely NOT all locals at all times, but there could be a few. Flatbush Av. Short turns seem to work ok as well. Now, when I get to Fulton, I want to see how many of us are actually getting off there, and I will post on that in just a few minutes. Crossing Atlantic Av now. Still crush loaded of course.

 

They probably forgot to highlight the limited trips on that Guide-A-Ride, because the B44 limited definitely runs at 4:00PM on a weekday.

[Mysterious2train]

On the Guide-A-Ride for LTD routes like the B41 and B44 "every 3-4 minutes" and the like refers to local and limited service combined.

[East New York]

Alright, I was confused when you said "Destination: Fulton St", but now I see that was your stop.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

They probably forgot to highlight the limited trips on that Guide-A-Ride, because the B44 limited definitely runs at 4:00PM on a weekday.

 

That's what I was thinking. For a minute I was confused. I was positive there was all day limited service, but didn't see anything.

 

On the Guide-A-Ride for LTD routes like the B41 and B44 "every 3-4 minutes" and the like refers to local and limited service combined.

 

But this particular one has timepoints, and none of them reflected a limited run.

[Acela Express]

But this particular one has timepoints, and none of them reflected a limited run.

Heh, there's many timepoint schedules that will just reflect the estimated headway of buses rather than a specific time.

I discovered this one day when waiting for the 46 to work at Flatlands & Utica (Kings Plaza-bound), showing between the hours of 8AM and 10PM, the buses come every 2-3 minutes, with a few rush hour numbers at every 1-2 minutes. Sweet headways! haha

[SubBus]

I know we have B44SBS coming in a few months, but thinking with the B44s being the least reliable line in the entire borough, they should probably short-turn a few buses at Fulton Street, similar to what's being done on the B46 when there's LTD / local service from Kings Plaza to Eastern Parkway to handle the transfers from the 3 & 4 trains, B14 & B17 routes heading southbound. It would work the same way with keeping the buses where service is heavily needed on the B44. In this case, they can short-turn a few B44s, preferably LTDs, at Fulton Street to handle the train crowds from the A & C trains during rush hours, then perhaps terminate at the Junction (Flatbush Avenue).

 

They do this with the B41s as well for the Bergen Beach branch were 3 or 4 runs are considered shuttles AM & PM rushes. Instance: run 80 during the week is the PM shuttle for Bergen Beach where you start at the Junction, load, transport to Bergen Beach, then deadhead back to the Junction to repeat. This is done about 5-6 times with this run during PM rush. I've done this run and it damn sure helps.

 

What say you?

 

I remember that the were Fulton St short turns on the (B44) years ago. At least it was on the Blitz/Fishbowls destination signs. I remember the (B46) used to the (B44) Fulton St sign for short turns there.