East New York Posted March 4, 2012 Share #1 Posted March 4, 2012 This just in! The is agressively studying the alternatives to moving people up and down Utica Ave. We all know that the only true solution is a new subway line, but with money tight, and SBS a success, what can be done? Well, the MTA may just have a plan for that. Before tonight, I was very skeptical about any SBS plans actually working on Utica Ave. But after being briefed about what's currently on the table, it might actually work.:cool: At this time, I am not at liberty to supply any details. However, in the next few days, I should be able so supply some.:cool: Stay Tuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from Maspeth Posted March 4, 2012 Share #2 Posted March 4, 2012 It's certainly needed..............I'm not sure how much space would be taken up, especially on (narrow) Malcolm X Blvd. with the machines............and how many (more) folks wouldn't pay, or pay less than the fare. NYCT is losing their shirts with fare evasion and Unlimited Merto Card sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 4, 2012 Share #3 Posted March 4, 2012 It's certainly needed..............I'm not sure how much space would be taken up, especially on (narrow) Malcolm X Blvd. with the machines............and how many (more) folks wouldn't pay, or pay less than the fare. NYCT is losing their shirts with fare evasion and Unlimited Merto Card sharing. Buses could go south on Stuyvesant Avenue, clearing some parking space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knice1187 Posted March 4, 2012 Share #4 Posted March 4, 2012 I knew it was only a matter of time. Within the next few years I bet you mta will make flatbush all artic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted March 4, 2012 Share #5 Posted March 4, 2012 I knew it was only a matter of time. Within the next few years I bet you mta will make flatbush all artic We all know that's coming. Lmfao @ B2 & 31 getting Artics!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted March 4, 2012 Share #6 Posted March 4, 2012 The SBS stops from Kings Plaza to the Bridge should be: Kings Plaza Fillmore Ave Avenue N (maybe) Flatlands Avenue Avenue H Avenue D Church Avenue Empire Blvd Eastern Parkway St Johns (maybe) Fulton Street Gates Avenue Dekalb Avenue Myrtle Avenue Flushing Avenue Lorimer Street or Union avenue (one or the other) Marcy Avenue Williamsburg Bridge (last stop) 18 stops from end to end. The issue with going pass Dekalb, are they willing to send locals up to the bridge during the day? Or just a few with the rest turning around at Dekalb or Flushing Ave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 4, 2012 Share #7 Posted March 4, 2012 It's certainly needed..............I'm not sure how much space would be taken up, especially on (narrow) Malcolm X Blvd. with the machines............and how many (more) folks wouldn't pay, or pay less than the fare. NYCT is losing their shirts with fare evasion and Unlimited Merto Card sharing. Not to mention, won't those machines be vandalized/destroyed? I just don't see this working for northern Brooklyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattTrain Posted March 4, 2012 Share #8 Posted March 4, 2012 Oh boy those fare inspectors are going to have a field day on the B46 SBS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted March 4, 2012 Share #9 Posted March 4, 2012 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'89 Liberty MCI Posted March 4, 2012 Share #10 Posted March 4, 2012 Will they even be able to send the thing north of Eastern Pkwy? The streets seem too narrow for SBS. I certainly do not support SBS on streets that are bidirectional with one lane in both directions. Yeah, I know, the B44 and future B44 SBS does/will do it on Nostrand between Farragut and Kings Hwy and between Gerritsen and V. However the logistics are different since the B44 SBS will only stop three times on these stretches, at Flatbush, Kings Hwy, and U. If the B46 SBS does operate north of Eastern, so be it. It will just be slower than the B44. I was under the impression that the B46 SBS would only operate south of Eastern. The B2 and B31 will only get Artics if their routes get extended so they can pick up more people to justify higher service levels. I do not think Marcy Avenue should be a stop, Acela. It is right next to the terminal. I know the are right there, but it should only be a stop if the buses tend to get caught at the light or something. Would like to hear your reasoning since you know the B46 like the back of your hand. Might not be a bad idea to skip N for various reasons, including its proximity to Fillmore. It seems like Winthrop should be kept because of Kingsbrook. The B44 basically has the same stopping pattern (Church, Clarkson, Empire). Although maybe you want to kill the Utica-Winthrop stop because Utica does not move as well as Nostrand and Rogers (two-way vs. one-way pair) and because there are no bus transfers there. But to me it seems like Winthrop should be kept. I think Eastern and St. John's should be consolidated as a compromise. Kill both stops and instead put one at Lincoln Place/Eastern Pkwy. Union Avenue/Heyward Street should be a stop instead of Lorimer Street so that people can transfer to/from the right there. Based on past arguments on this forum, it seems unclear whether SBS increases fare evasion, decreases it, or has little to no effect. I personally think this should be completely ignored when choosing routes to convert to SBS. My mentality is, the more routes you convert to SBS, the better. Most bus operators will say that the working conditions on SBS are much better than those on non-SBS routes, and as an occasional (formerly frequent) bus passenger I can tell you that the less I have to use non-SBS routes, the better. After years of seeing and hearing about all the nonsense that B/Os, including the ones I know, have to deal with, SBS is a Godsend. Even though it is not as fast as we would all like it to be on the Bx12, M15, and M34. But for argument's sake, as far as the fare goes, I seriously doubt MTA is losing more money than it would if there were no SBS. Between the people that do not want to risk getting fined, the people that take the risk and [eventually] do get fined, and the lower operating costs of SBS due to the decreased running times, SBS is probably a cost-neutral operation at worst in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from Maspeth Posted March 4, 2012 Share #11 Posted March 4, 2012 Oh boy those fare inspectors are going to have a field day on the B46 SBS! You want to see loss of life (bloodshed) over non payment of a fare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 4, 2012 Share #12 Posted March 4, 2012 Only way to enforce the fares are paid is if you have a cop with an M4 rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted March 4, 2012 Share #13 Posted March 4, 2012 Before tonight, I was very skeptical about any SBS plans actually working on Utica Ave. But after being briefed about what's currently on the table, it might actually work.:cool: Stay Tuned! Oh boy :cool::eek: I remember you being staunchly anti-B46 SBS, so I'm very interested in this plan. Hooper St should be a stop. For reference, Hooper St is right next to Hewes St (as in the train station on the ) As for service above Dekalb, it wouldn't suprise me if the does what they're doing with the B44: Have no local service and SBS stops every few blocks. But during the AM Rush, there's no local service from Kings Plaza to Avenue H, and I don't think the SBS should fill in the gap then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattTrain Posted March 4, 2012 Share #14 Posted March 4, 2012 You want to see loss of life (bloodshed) over non payment of a fare? I don't think the fare-beating passengers are that violent. You must be thinking of that Edwin Thomas incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 4, 2012 Share #15 Posted March 4, 2012 Oh boy :cool::eek: I remember you being staunchly anti-B46 SBS, so I'm very interested in this plan. Hooper St should be a stop. For reference, Hooper St is right next to Hewes St (as in the train station on the ) As for service above Dekalb, it wouldn't suprise me if the does what they're doing with the B44: Have no local service and SBS stops every few blocks. But during the AM Rush, there's no local service from Kings Plaza to Avenue H, and I don't think the SBS should fill in the gap then... No regular B44s are being replaced. It is only the B44 Limiteds that are being replaced with SBS. I don't think the fare-beating passengers are that violent. You must be thinking of that Edwin Thomas incident. Never know, best to err on the side of caution regardless. Losing a life is not worth it for a fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T J Trainman Posted March 4, 2012 Share #16 Posted March 4, 2012 So, the B-44 and now the B-46 are both going to be SBS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted March 4, 2012 Share #17 Posted March 4, 2012 Interesting, I hope the 41 isn't that far behind! Then again a 41 SBS might cause the B103 to be axed between The Junction and Downtown lol. As for fare beating, if SBS works on the BX12 then I don't see why it would be a issue on the 44/46. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 4, 2012 Share #18 Posted March 4, 2012 Buses could go south on Stuyvesant Avenue, clearing some parking space. A radical idea (I know it would *never* be approved) is to make Macolm X Blvd/Utica between Eastern Pwy. and Dekalb ban all parking except overnights to allow for buses to run if this possible (B46) SBS were to be introduced. Again I am fully aware the NIMBYS aka the car owners would oppose it but there are other cities that have bus only lanes and even streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'89 Liberty MCI Posted March 4, 2012 Share #19 Posted March 4, 2012 Oh boy :cool::eek: I remember you being staunchly anti-B46 SBS, so I'm very interested in this plan. Hooper St should be a stop. For reference, Hooper St is right next to Hewes St (as in the train station on the ) As for service above Dekalb, it wouldn't suprise me if the does what they're doing with the B44: Have no local service and SBS stops every few blocks. But during the AM Rush, there's no local service from Kings Plaza to Avenue H, and I don't think the SBS should fill in the gap then... You want a stop 4 little blocks after Union Avenue? Even if they had no B46 local service up there I still could not see why the two stops should be right on top of each other when there is a train upstairs. On the southern ends of the B44 (mentioning it because you said you thought they might can the B44 local south of U) and B46, there are fewer transportation options and higher ridership than on the northern ends. The fact that there are fewer transportation options means it is more difficult to get around down there. Also there are more senior citizens down there in the quieter/less busy areas. So it makes less sense to end all local service to the southern terminals than to end all local service to the northern terminals. Not to say it absolutely will not happen, but you know. They will probably just extend the B46 local to Kings Plaza at all times including AM rush hours so that the B46 SBS can sustain motion down Utica for a decent period of time. It needs to, since it only covers 4+ miles before it gets to a subway. Grand Concourse: Mysterious2train was referring to the limiteds, which currently make local stops north of Flushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 4, 2012 Share #20 Posted March 4, 2012 Interesting, I hope the 41 isn't that far behind! Then again a 41 SBS might cause the B103 to be axed between The Junction and Downtown lol. As for fare beating, if SBS works on the BX12 then I don't see why it would be a issue on the 44/46. I hope not for the B41. The only way that works is if you have a crackdown on the dollar vans, limit the amount of cars sharing the road and ban parking at narrowest segments of FB. Are the areas the Bx12 serves as bad as the areas the B44/46 serves? I just don't see this working unless you have inspectors at the busiest stops checking before people boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted March 5, 2012 Share #21 Posted March 5, 2012 No regular B44s are being replaced. It is only the B44 Limiteds that are being replaced with SBS. That's not what I'm talking about. Right now, the B44 Limited makes all local stops between Flushing Av and Bridge Plaza, but the SBS is only going to stop at Hewes St and Taylor St and the people using the in-between stops will have to walk to one of the blue-starred stops (The B44 Local should still stop at the bypassed stops overnight). The B46 Limited makes all local stops between DeKalb Av and Bridge Plaza, so when/if the B46 gets SBS, I could see the doing something similar. B44: B46: Also, a map for your viewing pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted March 5, 2012 Share #22 Posted March 5, 2012 I hope not for the B41. The only way that works is if you have a crackdown on the dollar vans, limit the amount of cars sharing the road and ban parking at narrowest segments of FB. Are the areas the Bx12 serves as bad as the areas the B44/46 serves? I just don't see this working unless you have inspectors at the busiest stops checking before people boards. Utica Ave has dollar vans as well, I believe the Dollar vans don't travel North of the Utica Ave station, I can't recall ever seeing one North of Eastern Parkway. Certain parts of the B46 route have those latter two issues as well, especially the North of where that street the B12 travels on. As your last point, the area where it crosses the train route, yes its even worst, of course the street the BX12 travels on is safe as its mostly stores on that part of the route, but if you go north or south of Fordam Rd you're in the hood lol. The BX12 is sort of like the BX version of the B41, that's how it always came off to me, of course with the 41 you can't really tell when you're going though a rough area (Parkside Ave till about Ave D/Ditmas). I'm personally not scared of that part of Flatbush, but some people might consider it bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 5, 2012 Share #23 Posted March 5, 2012 I've been on the B41 as far as Prospect Park and if it's during the day FB av seems pretty 'calm'. To some extent (I know not accurate or fair), east of FB av (and either north of Gleenwood or Av H) is sort of the divider b/w the safer side and the sketchy side of Brooklyn, imo. In the day I have no problems riding the buses (B6/103 to Utica), but I'm not venturing on those lines past FB at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 5, 2012 Share #24 Posted March 5, 2012 I figured the MTA bringing up cutting down on commuting time, cutting down on boarding time, and everything else the MTA brought up waxing poetic about (upon coming out with) Select Bus service was one big cloak & dagger... I just didn't realize, to what.... always had it in the back of my mind the(ir) main purpose w/ SBS wadn't to benefit the passenger.... Now I understand.... as bass-ackwards as this sounds, SBS is the MTA's solution to cracking down on farebeating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted March 5, 2012 Share #25 Posted March 5, 2012 A radical idea (I know it would *never* be approved) is to make Macolm X Blvd/Utica between Eastern Pwy. and Dekalb ban all parking except overnights to allow for buses to run if this possible (B46) SBS were to be introduced. Again I am fully aware the NIMBYS aka the car owners would oppose it but there are other cities that have bus only lanes and even streets. There's the problem right there. Malcolm X is only 1 driving lane in each direction. The parking lanes can't be used as driving lanes since the curb extends out further towards the ends of the blocks so at each corner, its literally1 lane each direction. South of Fulton, things are different but its still tight driving and still 1 driving lane in each direction until Eastern Pkwy (dollar van city) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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