Should the QM7/QM8 Be Combined

[Gorgor]

\And somehow you complain about the buses showing up 20 minutes late, and yet you don't think running times should be adjusted. Maybe the B/O knows that he's not going to get anybody, but he doesn't want to arrive early, so he leaves late and makes up the time further down the route. Maybe if the running time was adjusted, that wouldn't happen.

 

Stop defending the MTA. That is THE most BS excuse for buses showing up late that I've ever heard.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Stop defending the MTA. That is THE most BS excuse for buses showing up late that I've ever heard.

 

LOL... He defends them endlessly. It's really amazing... He defends their service cuts 90% of the time, defends their false stats and BELIEVES them, defends their lackadaisical stance on farebeating and just about everything else they do. Why would this be any different? LOL

[checkmatechamp13]

1) What does the fact that the Bx12 has over 5 times the ridership have to do with service levels? That means nothing because you have to look at what sort of service levels are being provided on the two lines and as it is now, the S53 is the busiest line on Staten Island and it usually receives frequencies of 10 minutes which is a joke. I rode it this morning briefly to catch the X14 and the bus was packed like a sardine can. It becomes unbearable once you get to Richmond Rd and Targee Street.

 

2) Inefficient how so??

 

3) Yeah well 20 minutes is ridiculous. The run times don't need to be adjusted because they often times arrive late and remain late, especially of late because they pick up folks.

 

4) There's a big difference between what I do and what you do. You take multiple quotes, reply to one of them as if you're replying to all of them at once when in reality you're not which confuses people, and not just me either, so it's a habit that I don't get. Me on the other hand I may decide to add to a post so as not to create a new post if I see something I want to reply to that I didn't before and no one else has replied since I did. I just try to keep down clutter. You on the other hand, I don't know why you do that but it is quite confusing.

 

1) So are you saying that the Bx12 isn't crowded? I've been to the Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway area a few times and every time I've seen the Bx12 (at least the +SBS+ runs), those buses have been crowded. For some of them, even I would consider them crowded (an articulated bus full front-to-back with people). Maybe it was just the timing, and I happened to see it when there was a delay or something, but the point is that it can get crowded.

 

I never said anything about the S53 not being crowded. Like I said, I mentioned the need for increased service as a reason to make the S83 (if you're going to add buses, you might as well make them limited to save money and speed up trips for the passenger). I've been on the S53s that were crowded and those that weren't.

 

I wasn't debating the crowding levels. I was just saying that I don't think there's been a huge increase in ridership. At the times I use the S53, I don't see any difference in crowding from before BusTime. The buses have always, and continue to get decent ridership. How much (whether buses just have a seated load or are crowded) depends.

 

2) A high cost per passenger. On Saturdays, the cost per passenger is over $15 for all 5 BM routes IIRC, and on weekdays, I think it's over $15 for the BM4 and BM5 (that's why Amtrak said that weekday BM1/2/3 service should remain untouched, and the same for rush hour BM4/5 service). I've posted the link to that spreadsheet a million times, so I'm not going to post it again, and Im too lazy to check the numbers again, but I know they're in that range.

 

3) You said there were plenty of times when there's only a few people on the bus and he bypasses Lower Manhattan because nobody wants to get off. That, plus the fact that he spends less time picking up the passengers in the first place means he probably arrives at 57th Street on time.

 

I'm not saying it's justified to show up 20 minutes late, but a portion of that lateness I could understand.

 

4) You know I do it frequently, so if you see a bunch of posts like that, wait a few minutes and I'll respond to them individually. Like I said, unless I state otherwise, each post is getting its own response.

 

LOL... He defends them endlessly. It's really amazing... He defends their service cuts 90% of the time, defends their false stats and BELIEVES them, defends their lackadaisical stance on farebeating and just about everything else they do. Why would this be any different? LOL

 

90% of the time is a huge exaggeration. There are plenty of cuts I oppose, not to mention service that should be added in some areas.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) So are you saying that the Bx12 isn't crowded? I've been to the Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway area a few times and every time I've seen the Bx12 (at least the +SBS+ runs), those buses have been crowded. For some of them, even I would consider them crowded (an articulated bus full front-to-back with people). Maybe it was just the timing, and I happened to see it when there was a delay or something, but the point is that it can get crowded.

 

I never said anything about the S53 not being crowded. Like I said, I mentioned the need for increased service as a reason to make the S83 (if you're going to add buses, you might as well make them limited to save money and speed up trips for the passenger). I've been on the S53s that were crowded and those that weren't.

 

I wasn't debating the crowding levels. I was just saying that I don't think there's been a huge increase in ridership. At the times I use the S53, I don't see any difference in crowding from before BusTime. The buses have always, and continue to get decent ridership. How much (whether buses just have a seated load or are crowded) depends.

 

I never debated that the Bx12 wasn't crowded. What I took issue with was you trivializing the S53 and acting like it doesn't have crowding issues just because it has less ridership than the Bx12. I'm curious as to what time you use the S53 because if it's around the time I'm thinking then I could see why you say that. The question is from where you use it?

 

 

90% of the time is a huge exaggeration. There are plenty of cuts I oppose, not to mention service that should be added in some areas.

 

Nah, that's about right... I don't know who is worse in that regard, you or JoelUpFront. LOL

[checkmatechamp13]

1) I never debated that the Bx12 wasn't crowded. What I took issue with was you trivializing the S53 and acting like it doesn't have crowding issues just because it has less ridership than the Bx12. I'm curious as to what time you use the S53 because if it's around the time I'm thinking then I could see why you say that. The question is from where you use it?

 

2) Nah, that's about right... I don't know who is worse in that regard, you or JoelUpFront. LOL

 

1) And I never said that the S53 doesn't have crowding issues. I said ridership hasn't been increasing that much.

 

As far as when I use it (Sometimes I need to save my transfer, so I walk down Broadway instead of taking it, but I still see the buses pass by and I can see the crowding level), but anyway, most of the time, it's from Port Richmond to the YMCA in the PM rush (say, from about 17:30 to 19:00). Sometimes I take it down to Victory Blvd for the S62 during that same timeframe, and sometimes I go earlier (say, around 15:00 - 15:30) and take the S53.

 

And of course, I have the occasional trip to Brooklyn where I use it instead of the ferry (usually doesn't save much time) or if I need to go to South Beach or Grasmere or something.

 

2) I've never heard Joel Up Front justify any service cuts. :confused: And no, 90% is way off. I could list a bunch of cuts I oppose (in fact, I think I made a thread about it somewhere), but I've already done it a bunch of times and the point hasn't sunk in apparently so I'm giving up.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) And I never said that the S53 doesn't have crowding issues. I said ridership hasn't been increasing that much.

 

As far as when I use it (Sometimes I need to save my transfer, so I walk down Broadway instead of taking it, but I still see the buses pass by and I can see the crowding level), but anyway, most of the time, it's from Port Richmond to the YMCA in the PM rush (say, from about 17:30 to 19:00). Sometimes I take it down to Victory Blvd for the S62 during that same timeframe, and sometimes I go earlier (say, around 15:00 - 15:30) and take the S53.

 

And of course, I have the occasional trip to Brooklyn where I use it instead of the ferry (usually doesn't save much time) or if I need to go to South Beach or Grasmere or something.

 

#1 at that time the S53s aren't that crowded down by Forest so that's a poor example to use to measure ridership. Most of the crowding starts from Victory Blvd and up and if the bus is already crowded by Forest then you know it's going to be uber crowded. Around the times you speak of you will usually see a seated load which is very deceiving since a huge portion of the riders get off at or before Victory Blvd at that time. Having a few standees is more indicative of how crowded that bus was prior to Broadway and Forest.

 

 

2) I've never heard Joel Up Front justify any service cuts. :confused: And no, 90% is way off. I could list a bunch of cuts I oppose (in fact, I think I made a thread about it somewhere), but I've already done it a bunch of times and the point hasn't sunk in apparently so I'm giving up.

 

I wasn't talking about service cuts with him. I was talking about his never ending support of just about everything the does.

[Amtrak7]

I wasn't talking about service cuts with him. I was talking about his never ending support of just about everything the does.

 

So? We're not the news media whose job is to seemingly object to everything the MTA does.

[checkmatechamp13]

at that time the S53s aren't that crowded down by Forest so that's a poor example to use to measure ridership. Most of the crowding starts from Victory Blvd and up and if the bus is already crowded by Forest then you know it's going to be uber crowded. Around the times you speak of you will usually see a seated load which is very deceiving since a huge portion of the riders get off at or before Victory Blvd at that time. Having a few standees is more indicative of how crowded that bus was prior to Broadway and Forest.

 

 

Except that I never said anything about crowding on the buses. I was only talking about the change in ridership. The buses I see are no more crowded than they were before BusTime. I'm not saying ridership isn't good or anything: Just that it hasn't changed. I know all about the S53 being less crowded north of Victory Blvd.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Except that I never said anything about crowding on the buses. I was only talking about the change in ridership. The buses I see are no more crowded than they were before BusTime. I'm not saying ridership isn't good or anything: Just that it hasn't changed. I know all about the S53 being less crowded north of Victory Blvd.

 

But it's ridiculous for you to say that there isn't any more crowding based on what you see on a small part of the route during a few hours of the day. You can't make that conclusion based on that alone. Hell if I based it on what you're basing it on I would say the same thing.

 

So? We're not the news media whose job is to seemingly object to everything the MTA does.

 

That's right... More like guillible sponges...

[Cait Sith]

So? We're not the news media whose job is to seemingly object to everything the MTA does.

 

+1

 

As for the OP, considering that I am one who frequents the QM7/8 during the PM, they should NOT be combined...thats like combining the Q44 with the Q20A/B.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) But it's ridiculous for you to say that there isn't any more crowding based on what you see on a small part of the route during a few hours of the day. You can't make that conclusion based on that alone. Hell if I based it on what you're basing it on I would say the same thing.

 

2) That's right... More like guillible sponges...

 

1) Except that it's not the only route I ride. Yeah, maybe I don't regularly use it south of Victory Blvd, but I use a lot of other routes for significant portions of the route.

 

2) And apparently Cait Sith is one as well. There are a bunch of users who agree with things the MTA does, and there are times when myself and Amtrak have said that the MTA did the wrong thing (in fact, in this thread, we said that they did the wrong thing by keeping some routes around at their current service levels).

[Cait Sith]

2) And apparently Cait Sith is one as well. There are a bunch of users who agree with things the MTA does, and there are times when myself and Amtrak have said that the MTA did the wrong thing (in fact, in this thread, we said that they did the wrong thing by keeping some routes around at their current service levels).

 

Whoa whoa whoa, slow down there lol. While I do agree with some of their things, I also have disagreements with a vast majority of things as well. But you are right, there are a ton of users on here that agrees and disagrees with certain things the MTA do. Unlike the media, we (the forum member base) have legitimate opinions about stuff.

[B35 via Church]

I guess I'll add to what some may consider legitimate....

 

One of my biggest gripes w/ the MTA is that they seldom make changes that benefit the very people that are using mass transit... and within it, come up with everything under the sun to justify their phuck-ups.... and come up with excuses as to why they can't make beneficial changes; cost neutrality.... cost neutrality deez nuts..... We're so broke, yeah spare me.....

 

Especially when it involves buses.... Not implying that our subway system is light-years better than our bus system, but there does exist this shunning of advocating bus travel in this city (I'm sorry, but their advertising of SBS routes & the M60 isn't enough)... I don't know of any other transit system that does this...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I guess I'll add to what some may consider legitimate....

 

One of my biggest gripes w/ the MTA is that they seldom make changes that benefit the very people that are using mass transit... and within it, come up with everything under the sun to justify their phuck-ups.... and come up with excuses as to why they can't make beneficial changes; cost neutrality.... cost neutrality deez nuts..... We're so broke, yeah spare me.....

 

Especially when it involves buses.... Not implying that our subway system is light-years better than our bus system, but there does exist this shunning of advocating bus travel in this city (I'm sorry, but their advertising of SBS routes & the M60 isn't enough)... I don't know of any other transit system that does this...

 

I think quite frankly the main issue is that buses have just become slower over the years and folks have been pushed to the subway as a result because the has been looking at costs rather than trying to work to make buses faster. They've been sort of behind on this and still are. I've been hearing about buses being able to switch traffic lights for years and that seems to be years away at least on Staten Island anyway. Another issue is this whole "merging" of routes. It seems to be becoming more and more popular with the sole focus being cost savings and NOT the rider. You don't attract more riders by making routes longer because it usually means that the routes are more delay prone. This QM7/QM8 idea would do exactly that. I think personally there needs to be more done to understand why some routes are so costly while others are supposedly so cheap. And before someone goes giving me the factors, DON'T because I don't buy into all of that. Some of that is BS and it's a way to justify slashing service to suit the (MTA)'s needs.

 

The other thing that concerns me is we have a very old subway system that is in constant need of repair and yet we keep trying to push more and more people to use it when ridership is through the roof. Why shouldn't we be trying to balance out ridership and get more folks to use the bus which could help to take some strain off of our subway system? As the system gets older it will need more and more repairs which is evident and is also a reason why IMO subway service has become worse over the years. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but it's not like the subways are getting quicker either. They're becoming more and more delay prone as well and trips are taking longer, so not all is well with the subway either and I think that the minimal cost involved to improve and speed up buses would actually benefit and improve the subway, making the system as a whole better. It's a shame that the is so fixated on rail usage and not bus usage. :tdown:

 

1) Except that it's not the only route I ride. Yeah, maybe I don't regularly use it south of Victory Blvd, but I use a lot of other routes for significant portions of the route.

 

That's not the point though. You cannot conclude on any route that ridership has not increased by solely basing it on a small segment that spans maybe 5 minutes at the most and on top of that only basing it on a few hours of the day. That just makes no sense at all.

[B35 via Church]

I think quite frankly the main issue is that buses have just become slower over the years and folks have been pushed to the subway as a result because the has been looking at costs rather than trying to work to make buses faster. They've been sort of behind on this and still are. I've been hearing about buses being able to switch traffic lights for years and that seems to be years away at least on Staten Island anyway. Another issue is this whole "merging" of routes. It seems to be becoming more and more popular with the sole focus being cost savings and NOT the rider. You don't attract more riders by making routes longer because it usually means that the routes are more delay prone. This QM7/QM8 idea would do exactly that. I think personally there needs to be more done to understand why some routes are so costly while others are supposedly so cheap. And before someone goes giving me the factors, DON'T because I don't buy into all of that. Some of that is BS and it's a way to justify slashing service to suit the (MTA)'s needs.

 

The other thing that concerns me is we have a very old subway system that is in constant need of repair and yet we keep trying to push more and more people to use it when ridership is through the roof. Why shouldn't we be trying to balance out ridership and get more folks to use the bus which could help to take some strain off of our subway system? As the system gets older it will need more and more repairs which is evident and is also a reason why IMO subway service has become worse over the years. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but it's not like the subways are getting quicker either. They're becoming more and more delay prone as well and trips are taking longer, so not all is well with the subway either and I think that the minimal cost involved to improve and speed up buses would actually benefit and improve the subway, making the system as a whole better. It's a shame that the is so fixated on rail usage and not bus usage. :tdown:

 

I think the main issue is more, they're looking to cut down on costs (period) & see buses a convenient scapegoat (much like the easier "target" amongst some folks in this community is to look for ways to trim express bus service before local buses; the whole express bus hater things).... same concept, just on a larger scale... It's easier to create (or even suggest, such as the case w/ this QM7/8 thing) a combination of routes of sorts (a super route) on the roads than it is on the rails....

 

They certainly haven't gotten any faster (for a multitude of reasons), but iono..... I don't really think buses have gotten noticably slower over the years, to the point where riders are considering the subway more now.... people will always be in a position where they have to take the bus to the subway (assuming they don't know someone that can drop them off at the subway, that is), for the simple fact that many bus riders don't live close (i.e., within say a 10 min walk) to the subway obviously.... Hell, you have an entire borough where that applies.....

 

Basically my point is, This recent boost in subway usage is a direct reflection of the dwindling bus service we've had to put up with over the years.....

 

This is where those delays in subway service you speak of, are becoming more apparent... granted you'll have those that'll come with the "a train transports more people than the bus" argument... which isn't false, except there's gonna come a point where people are gonna start shunning the subway because it's so damn crowded, if this trend of discourage bus usage & force riders onto the subway keeps up..... You can't keep forcing 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag, as the saying goes..... It's a lose-lose situation no matter how it's sliced..... I would hate to have to see the NYC subway get so crowded to the point where you start seeing "pushers" on the damn platforms.....

 

I think BrooklynBus made a blog about this notion, where the MTA should focus more on looking at the bus transit system & rail transit system as a cohesive unit instead of separate entities.....

 

I mean how many more bus routes have to get cut.... how many more TPH have to be added to facilitate the growing amt. of people... how delayed do the subway lines have to get.... how high does the fare have to be raised to.........

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think the main issue is more, they're looking to cut down on costs (period) & see buses a convenient scapegoat (much like the easier "target" amongst some folks in this community is to look for ways to trim express bus service before local buses).... same concept, just on a larger scale... It's easier to create (or even suggest, such as the case w/ this QM7/8 thing) a combination of routes of sorts (a super route) on the roads than it is on the rails.... I concur that

 

They certainly haven't gotten any faster (for a multitude of reasons), but iono..... I don't really think buses have gotten noticably slower over the years, to the point where riders are considering the subway more now.... people will always be in a position where they have to take the bus to the subway (assuming they don't know someone that can drop them off at the subway, that is), for the simple fact that many bus riders don't live close (i.e., within say a 10 min walk) to the subway obviously.... Hell, you have an entire borough where that applies.....

 

Basically my point is, This recent boost in subway usage is a direct reflection of the dwindling bus service we've had to put up with over the years.....

 

This is where those delays in subway service you speak of, are becoming more apparent... granted you'll have those that'll come with the "a train transports more people than the bus" argument... which isn't false, except there's gonna come a point where people are gonna start shunning the subway because it's so damn crowded, if this trend of discourage bus usage & force riders onto the subway keeps up..... You can't keep forcing 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag, as the saying goes..... It's a lose-lose situation no matter how it's sliced..... I would hate to have to see the NYC subway get so crowded to the point where you start seeing "pushers" on the damn platforms.....

 

I think BrooklynBus made a blog about this notion, where the MTA should focus more on looking at the bus transit system & rail transit system as a cohesive unit instead of separate entities.....

 

I mean how many more bus routes have to get cut.... how many more TPH have to be added to facilitate the growing amt. of people... how delayed do the subway lines have to get.... how high does the fare have to be raised to.........

 

LOL... I like that "brown" bag analysis... :cool:

 

Good question... I'm becoming nauseated with this fixation on costs already. It's amazing how they analyze the costs of service but they seem to be rather free with the cost of other things. Sure they've trimmed the fat here and there in other areas, but they always come back to the cost to provide the very thing that they're supposed to be providing which is service. This morning for the first time ever I was an S54 that actually bypassed a few people because it was too crowded. I was shocked. The next bus wasn't due for another 20 minutes so I wonder if this will be a trend or what. It seems to me that the service that they've been cutting with buses is starting to hit a head because they've been skimping for a while now and they may very well be forced to add service on lines that they don't want to. It can't be that every bus that I'm on here of late on Staten Island and even in Manhattan is just full or crowded by coincidence. What's interesting is that they're still looking at lines to cut service on.

 

Bus ridership has also dwindled because people became frustrated with the shotty service. Now I'm not expecting ridership to go through the roof per se, but I think folks don't mind waiting if they know where their bus is and I can honestly see that folks are using Bus Time for their commutes. I see folks with the cell phones out and they're arriving just a few minutes before the buses are scheduled. I would have to think that the recent spike in gas prices may have something to do with more folks using the buses as well.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The reason I started this thread was because of the mixed feelings of people of this matter. I Would do the following if the MTA was to do that.

All QM7 Trips will be extended via QM8 Route .

QM8 buses will have 2 service patterns.

1. Current Service on QM8 buses

2. Super Express; regular QM8 until 188 street, go up 188 street to 64 Avenue, then Express along 188 street/LIE/FDR Dr. To Downtown Manhattan.

Current QM8 buses would operate under service pattern 1

Current QM7 buses would be renamed QM8, would be extended to 260 street, but would run up 188 street to 64 Avenue then non-stop to Downtown.

Fresh Meadow Riders along 188 and Certain QM8 points will have faster service to Downtown. The chance of catching a QM8 bus would be every 10 minutes.

20 minutes for each branch.

[checkmatechamp13]

That's not the point though. You cannot conclude on any route that ridership has not increased by solely basing it on a small segment that spans maybe 5 minutes at the most and on top of that only basing it on a few hours of the day. That just makes no sense at all.

 

You're missing my point. It's not like my only experience on SI routes is a small section of the S53 (and no, Port Richmond Avenue to the YMCA is definitely not 5 minutes). I use other routes regularly, and at various times of the day (like I said, the S46 and Richmond Avenue, and to a certain extent the S48). On those routes, I haven't noticed any change, and I ride them at various times of the day.

 

Now, I'm not saying that ridership hasn't gone up. You mentioned that some people were actually flagged by an S54 (I assume that it was a run that normally has a lot of spare capacity, because in the morning as you know, the schoolkids use that route), and yeah, I don't doubt that ridership on the lighter ridership routes has gone up, but I'm just saying that on the heavy ridership routes (at least the ones I use), there hasn't been a difference.

 

LOL... I like that "brown" bag analysis... :cool:

 

Good question... I'm becoming nauseated with this fixation on costs already. It's amazing how they analyze the costs of service but they seem to be rather free with the cost of other things. Sure they've trimmed the fat here and there in other areas, but they always come back to the cost to provide the very thing that they're supposed to be providing which is service. This morning for the first time ever I was an S54 that actually bypassed a few people because it was too crowded. I was shocked. The next bus wasn't due for another 20 minutes so I wonder if this will be a trend or what. It seems to me that the service that they've been cutting with buses is starting to hit a head because they've been skimping for a while now and they may very well be forced to add service on lines that they don't want to. It can't be that every bus that I'm on here of late on Staten Island and even in Manhattan is just full or crowded by coincidence. What's interesting is that they're still looking at lines to cut service on.

 

Bus ridership has also dwindled because people became frustrated with the shotty service. Now I'm not expecting ridership to go through the roof per se, but I think folks don't mind waiting if they know where their bus is and I can honestly see that folks are using Bus Time for their commutes. I see folks with the cell phones out and they're arriving just a few minutes before the buses are scheduled. I would have to think that the recent spike in gas prices may have something to do with more folks using the buses as well.

 

Like I said, I've even seen empty buses even with BusTime. In fact, just this afternoon at Forest Avenue/Broadway, I saw an S48 with 3 people (an O5 BTW. :tup: ), and last week (or maybe the week before), I caught an S98 with 2 other people. Obviously, I'm not implying that the S48/98 is a weak route or anything, but I'm just saying that ridership really hasn't increased from what I've seen. On the routes I use regularly, I see no noticable change in ridership.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're missing my point. It's not like my only experience on SI routes is a small section of the S53 (and no, Port Richmond Avenue to the YMCA is definitely not 5 minutes). I use other routes regularly, and at various times of the day (like I said, the S46 and Richmond Avenue, and to a certain extent the S48). On those routes, I haven't noticed any change, and I ride them at various times of the day.

 

Now, I'm not saying that ridership hasn't gone up. You mentioned that some people were actually flagged by an S54 (I assume that it was a run that normally has a lot of spare capacity, because in the morning as you know, the schoolkids use that route), and yeah, I don't doubt that ridership on the lighter ridership routes has gone up, but I'm just saying that on the heavy ridership routes (at least the ones I use), there hasn't been a difference.

 

I'm not missing the point. You're comparing the S53 at a time when ridership isn't that high and then comparing it to a portion of the route that's at the beginning of the route and then concluding that ridership is the same. Poor analysis. Now if you would've said that ridership hasn't increased at a certain time of the day AND along a certain PORTION of the route then I could agree with that because that is possible, but you cannot conclude that ridership on an entire line hasn't increased basing it on one portion of the line.

 

 

Like I said, I've even seen empty buses even with BusTime. In fact, just this afternoon at Forest Avenue/Broadway, I saw an S48 with 3 people (an O5 BTW. :tup: ), and last week (or maybe the week before), I caught an S98 with 2 other people. Obviously, I'm not implying that the S48/98 is a weak route or anything, but I'm just saying that ridership really hasn't increased from what I've seen. On the routes I use regularly, I see no noticable change in ridership.

 

Oh please. Just because you get on a bus that doesn't have that many people on it doesn't mean anything. I got on a rather empty X12 this morning and that was because there was one ahead of us blew by us because he had no seats left, so you don't know why those buses had so few people on it. By the time all of us got on and then he picked up at the last stop, the bus was more than half way full. The few times I've been on buses that weren't that crowded it was because we had one or even two buses closely running in front of us.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) I'm not missing the point. You're comparing the S53 at a time when ridership isn't that high and then comparing it to a portion of the route that's at the beginning of the route and then concluding that ridership is the same. Poor analysis. Now if you would've said that ridership hasn't increased at a certain time of the day AND along a certain PORTION of the route then I could agree with that because that is possible, but you cannot conclude that ridership on an entire line hasn't increased basing it on one portion of the line.

 

2) Oh please. Just because you get on a bus that doesn't have that many people on it doesn't mean anything. I got on a rather empty X12 this morning and that was because there was one ahead of us blew by us because he had no seats left, so you don't know why those buses had so few people on it. By the time all of us got on and then he picked up at the last stop, the bus was more than half way full. The few times I've been on buses that weren't that crowded it was because we had one or even two buses closely running in front of us.

 

1) You're still missing my point. So let's say I'm wrong about the S53. Am I wrong about the S44, S46, and S48? I've rode those lines a lot and like I said, I haven't noticed any significant increase in ridership. Yeah, some buses are crowded, but those runs have always been crowded. Like for instance today, the S46 I was on flagged a few passengers (PM rush, St. George-bound) which is a little out of the ordinary, but nothing too crazy.

 

2) Well this S98 only had a couple of riders until Richmond Avenue, and then I got off and saw a small crowd of people get on. Since hardly anybody gets on west of Richmond Avenue, it's safe to assume that it was at its most crowded point. I don't know what the deal is with the S48, though. :confused: In both cases, there wasn't a bus in front or anything that took the passengers because we would've caught up to them.

 

It's just one of the strange things that happens sometimes. There were other times when the buses were running normally (no bunching or anything), and a bus that is normally well-used has very few passengers.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) You're still missing my point. So let's say I'm wrong about the S53. Am I wrong about the S44, S46, and S48? I've rode those lines a lot and like I said, I haven't noticed any significant increase in ridership. Yeah, some buses are crowded, but those runs have always been crowded. Like for instance today, the S46 I was on flagged a few passengers (PM rush, St. George-bound) which is a little out of the ordinary, but nothing too crazy.

 

I'm not missing any point. Your original argument was specifically referring to just a segment of the S53 and then concluding that the entire line hasn't seen much of an increase in ridership which you can't know only using a small segment of the line. As for the rest of your statement, you act like people are going to be coming out of the woodworks in less than a two month period since Bus Time came out. I'm sorry but having a local bus on Staten Island bypassing passengers going to the ferry during the PM rush is out of the ordinary. Years ago you wouldn't have that many people going to the ferry like that. The S48s have been more and more crowded too going to the ferry and that's even with the shabby PM service that the offers at night going the other way. I am convinced that ridership has increased by 5-10% since Bus Time has launched and I'm basing that on many years of riding and looking at ridership patterns on several routes.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm not missing any point. Your original argument was specifically referring to just a segment of the S53 and then concluding that the entire line hasn't seen much of an increase in ridership which you can't know only using a small segment of the line. As for the rest of your statement, you act like people are going to be coming out of the woodworks in less than a two month period since Bus Time came out. I'm sorry but having a local bus on Staten Island bypassing passengers going to the ferry during the PM rush is out of the ordinary. Years ago you wouldn't have that many people going to the ferry like that. The S48s have been more and more crowded too going to the ferry and that's even with the shabby PM service that the offers at night going the other way. I am convinced that ridership has increased by 5-10% since Bus Time has launched and I'm basing that on many years of riding and looking at ridership patterns on several routes.

 

Well yeah, maybe it increased 5-10% on SI routes overall, but I still don't think it affected the heavier routes that much.

 

As for that S46, I think the main reason was the bus type used. I can't get the different types straight, but it was either a 3G or XCelsior on the S46. Had it been an O5 or even an O7, he wouldn't have had to pass people.

 

In any case, I've rode the S46 around that time for the past few years, and it's always been crowded (unless something crazy happened) at that time.

 

Part of the reason why he was flagging people could've been because he was running late too (the lateness caused him to be more crowded in the first place, and he tried to save a little bit of time by flagging people). He stopped at every stop where there were people, but the thing is that some people didn't go on. Whether they felt the bus was too crowded or the B/O closed the door before they made it in I don't know.

[qjtransitmaster]

Ok lets end the crap QM7 Needs to be left alone!!!!! QM8 Needs to bypass union tpk and go super express via LIE from 188th DONE!!!!!!!

[QM1to6Ave]

Ok lets end the crap QM7 Needs to be left alone!!!!! QM8 Needs to bypass union tpk and go super express via LIE from 188th DONE!!!!!!!

 

Oh my god. I can't even.

[Q101 E Midtown]

Ok lets end the crap QM7 Needs to be left alone!!!!! QM8 Needs to bypass union tpk and go super express via LIE from 188th DONE!!!!!!!

 

But can the QM7 handle Union Turnpike without the QM8?