MTA Chairman on Fare Hike: "It's Going to Happen" as he also discuss upgrades.

[CenSin]

A rail connection to/from Willets Point is a bad idea for 2 reasons:

1. The ride from there is much less direct from Manhattan than from Ditmars Boulevard. A ride along the Flushing line would end up being about 150% of one along the Astoria line).
   
2. Should this airport connection continue along the Flushing line to Times Square and not terminate at Willets Point, it's likely to use the express tracks to some degree. This would result in degraded service for locals traveling between Manhattan and Flushing if all or most express service is rerouted to the airport.
   

 

 

A connection via Astoria has 3 advantages:

1. It connects to the Broadway line which runs across Manhattan and down a major artery connecting to all of the trunk lines in Manhattan. (It, however, misses both Grand Central and Pennsylvania Station.)
   
2. It's route is more direct (geometrically speaking), and trains along Astoria do not have to traverse the same kind of curves that the has to between Queensboro Plaza and Hunters Point Avenue.
   
3. There is no preexisting express service along Astoria, but there's an idle express track that could be use to speed service between the airport and Manhattan without too much of a disruption to locals.
   

 

[GojiMet86]

I live in Astoria, and I'm all for having an extension to LaGuardia Airport. However, it would be nice if the extension could have an intermediate stop(s), like at Steinway Street or Hazen Street.

 

 

On a side note, does anyone know from previous plans for the extension if the LGA stop was going to be underground, highway-level, or elevated? I could see it being elevated when it reaches the highway, and then dipping along at grade-level or underground.

[Shortline Bus]

I am not denying extending the Astoria line to LGA is best option. With that said and as a 1-time reporter for a weekly paper in Queens in late 1990's, it would be very diffcult for it to be approved. The NIMBYS in Astoria and East Elmhurst will try very hard to block it. Thus that why i suggested buliding an Airtrain between Willets Point and the airport instead.

 

Your guys are underestimating the power of many of the NIMBY's citywide especially in the Western Queens area. Hate to bring up politics/economic power but the PA was able to bulid the airtrain along the Van Wyck between the Jamaica LIRR and JFK since that part of Queens lacks political power. While that part of Queens which includes the Vallone Family has plenty of power.

 

 

A rail connection to/from Willets Point is a bad idea for 2 reasons:

1. The ride from there is much less direct from Manhattan than from Ditmars Boulevard. A ride along the Flushing line would end up being about 150% of one along the Astoria line).
   
2. Should this airport connection continue along the Flushing line to Times Square and not terminate at Willets Point, it's likely to use the express tracks to some degree. This would result in degraded service for locals traveling between Manhattan and Flushing if all or most express service is rerouted to the airport.
   

 

 

A connection via Astoria has 3 advantages:

1. It connects to the Broadway line which runs across Manhattan and down a major artery connecting to all of the trunk lines in Manhattan. (It, however, misses both Grand Central and Pennsylvania Station.)
   
2. It's route is more direct (geometrically speaking), and trains along Astoria do not have to traverse the same kind of curves that the has to between Queensboro Plaza and Hunters Point Avenue.
   
3. There is no preexisting express service along Astoria, but there's an idle express track that could be use to speed service between the airport and Manhattan without too much of a disruption to locals.
   

 

[Roadcruiser1]

I have a better idea. Let's bulldoze the houses of the people that complain about the extension. Robert Moses did it when this happened every now and then and it worked. Just claim eminent domain. This is an airport expansion so it benefits the public. The government will allow you to tear them down. I will celebrate if that happens. I know that bulldozing people to build new structures are wrong but these people are complaining for almost no reasons. Many people in the city will give anything for subway service. We need to show these ingrates who we are.

[TwoTimer]

I am not denying extending the Astoria line to LGA is best option. With that said and as a 1-time reporter for a weekly paper in Queens in late 1990's, it would be very diffcult for it to be approved. The NIMBYS in Astoria and East Elmhurst will try very hard to block it. Thus that why i suggested buliding an Airtrain between Willets Point and the airport instead.

 

Your guys are underestimating the power of many of the NIMBY's citywide especially in the Western Queens area. Hate to bring up politics/economic power but the PA was able to bulid the airtrain along the Van Wyck between the Jamaica LIRR and JFK since that part of Queens lacks political power. While that part of Queens which includes the Vallone Family has plenty of power.

 

And also, the ROW is above the highway, and it adds almost no extra noise to the neighborhood. While the service clearly isn't for them, and they don't know their political rights and allies, its a different animal to ask to build something over a highway then to ask to continue a line as structure through a residential neighborhood feet from houses and look for a place to put it back underground.

 

The only way to do such a thing is to have it continue up 31st then curve over onto 19th Ave. That area is more industrial and would be easier to do anything with. Across 19th Ave (stopping at Steinway and Hazen) then down 81st (a stop at Ditmars again at 81st, LGA pays for a direct shuttle to Marine Air terminal or use M60 from here). All structure so far, as still another street to cross). Here's the key part. Demap Runaway drive, and run it as open cut (that takes care of the clearance for low flying planes) on Runaway drive/LaGuardia Rd. Back up to structure for a stop at 94st (and finally some in East Elmhurst finally has some sort of access), then each terminal, finishing up at D. No subway needed, and the only NIMBY's are those two blocks on 31st and that long block on 81st. The rest is industrial or PA NY/NJ land.

[nostalgia]

I have a better idea. Let's bulldoze the houses of the people that complain about the extension. Robert Moses did it when this happened every now and then and it worked. Just claim eminent domain. This is an airport expansion so it benefits the public. The government will allow you to tear them down. I will celebrate if that happens. I know that bulldozing people to build new structures are wrong but these people are complaining for almost no reasons. Many people in the city will give anything for subway service. We need to show these ingrates who we are.

 

Yes, you can use emiment domain. However, you have to compensate homeowners for the market rate of their property, which could be low because of the economy. But still, you have to come up with the $$$.

[Nova RTS 9147]

I have a better idea. Let's bulldoze the houses of the people that complain about the extension. Robert Moses did it when this happened every now and then and it worked. Just claim eminent domain. This is an airport expansion so it benefits the public. The government will allow you to tear them down. I will celebrate if that happens. I know that bulldozing people to build new structures are wrong but these people are complaining for almost no reasons. Many people in the city will give anything for subway service. We need to show these ingrates who we are.

 

 

Those ingrates happen to be represented by some of the most powerful lawmakers in the state, who can easily turn around and gut any future funding the TA may need in the future, including the money to operate said N extension. Never underestimate the power of uppity people with money!

[exseed]

Also, new technology and building techniques used in other newer elevated lines would make the noise less of a problem.

[TwoTimer]

One thing about Willets vs Astoria is Willets also has the LIRR. The original Airtrain JFK went to great lengths to connect itself with LIRR at Jamaica, its not simply a replacement for the old JFK shuttle bus between the airport and Howard Beach. Unless the actual subway itself went to LGA (which by far is the best option), an Airtrain would actually be better from Willets, even though its a bit farther away, unless one is talking about a dual terminal setup where LGA is in the middle and it runs from Astoria to Willets Pt. Lets remember the current airtran route isn't exactly the most direct way there (the fastest way to the area would have been to utilize the Rockaway branch ROW).

[Brighton Express]

Not surprised. With all these extensions, new technology, plus the on the way, the fares have to go up to maintain the subway.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

well 2.50 is not that bad.

[m7zanr160s]

well 2.50 is not that bad.

 

 

Nope, it's not. It'll be easier to calculate by head.

[N6 Limited]

The people with cars shouldn't have to pay more, but the people who rely on public transit should? People like that really grind my gears.

 

Exactly like Keystone said, if I'm paying extra toll money to the MTA, I definitely 100% rather them use THAT money for the roadways.

 

I'll add on to that, not only do I pay extra toll money that subsidizes transit, I pay a MTA fee when renewing my vehicle registration every 2 years, and when I have to renew my license. If you pay $104 for a monthly metrocard that only covers my insurance, not anything else like GAS, which also has MTA tax in it and maintenance which I have to handle on my own, etc.

[checkmatechamp13]

I hope they take this opportunity to get peak/off-peak fares. Like I've said, since the subway fare is being raised to $2.50, the express bus fare should become $5 off-peak and $6.25 during rush hour (2 and 2.5 times the subway fare, respectively). The amount of revenue from the express buses would remain roughly the same, but the shift from peak to off-peak would result in the MTA saving money while possibly improving off-peak express service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'll add on to that, not only do I pay extra toll money that subsidizes transit, I pay a MTA fee when renewing my vehicle registration every 2 years, and when I have to renew my license. If you pay $104 for a monthly metrocard that only covers my insurance, not anything else like GAS, which also has MTA tax in it and maintenance which I have to handle on my own, etc.

 

 

Sorry but you should pay more. You have the luxury of just walking out of your apartment or house and getting into your car. Again I said "luxury"... You guys clog up the streets, pollute the environment and so on and you think you shouldn't pay more as opposed to those of us who use public transportation??? I think not. That's the one area that I've certainly kept my "Europeaness". It's only here in the U.S. that folks shun public transit. In Europe they encourage folks to use public transit and leave their cars at home because they know how important it is in to reduce pollution and smog and such from cars. The U.S. will be forced to do the same as the population grows, bridges and highways age and congestion continues to grow. Even when I do get a car I will still use public transportation and I will most certainly get something that is environmentally friendly.

[IntExp]

One thing about Willets vs Astoria is Willets also has the LIRR. The original Airtrain JFK went to great lengths to connect itself with LIRR at Jamaica, its not simply a replacement for the old JFK shuttle bus between the airport and Howard Beach. Unless the actual subway itself went to LGA (which by far is the best option), an Airtrain would actually be better from Willets, even though its a bit farther away, unless one is talking about a dual terminal setup where LGA is in the middle and it runs from Astoria to Willets Pt. Lets remember the current airtran route isn't exactly the most direct way there (the fastest way to the area would have been to utilize the Rockaway branch ROW).

 

 

But the LIRR doesn't stop at Mets-Willets Point most of the time: it only stops there when Mets play at Citi Field, and two, it doesn't have the same level of frequency as Jamaica does - which is why Airtrain went to great pains to connect w/ the LIRR @ Jamaica. Jamaica handles all the branches except for the Port Washington, and the Port Washington Branch doesn't really have much frequency. You would also have to completely redesign the station to accommodate airport travelers, since, frankly, it's a POS of a station. Thus, an Airtrain to Astoria (which has more frequency due to the , and during the weekdays, the servicing it), or like you state, bringing the subway itself to LGA would be a better solution.

[LLQBTT]

It's amazing how the power and needs of a few outweigh the powers and needs of the many. How un-Vulcan.

 

Chicago has us easliy beat. 2 airports, 2 subway lines to the central business district. Bravo, Chicagoland!

[N6 Limited]

Sorry but you should pay more. You have the luxury of just walking out of your apartment or house and getting into your car. Again I said "luxury"... You guys clog up the streets, pollute the environment and so on and you think you shouldn't pay more as opposed to those of us who use public transportation??? I think not. That's the one area that I've certainly kept my "Europeaness". It's only here in the U.S. that folks shun public transit. In Europe they encourage folks to use public transit and leave their cars at home because they know how important it is in to reduce pollution and smog and such from cars. The U.S. will be forced to do the same as the population grows, bridges and highways age and congestion continues to grow. Even when I do get a car I will still use public transportation and I will most certainly get something that is environmentally friendly.

 

In case you haven't noticed in my posts, even though I have a car I still use public transportation, especially when going to Manhattan. Vehicle owners ALREADY pay more, they pay for their vehicle, they pay for insurance, they pay for maintenance, gas, tolls, registration, their license, car washes, etc. In the NYC area, a mta tax is in a lot of those things. So I pay $4.88 each way on the way to work, when I use the bus & subway I use my pay-per-ride metrocard, then I pay the MCTD on my license and registration renewal. I can drive to my friend's place in the Bronx in 20 mins, but by bus and subway it takes 90 mins.

 

You all need to realize that public transporation is not always the best choice nor the quickest when going to particular locations, especially in this metropolitan region when all lines go to Manhattan first and foremost.

 

It's like "use mass transit!' Sure, I can take the bus to Roosevelt Field, but that will take an hour, that's IF I don't get flagged, or the buses don't come 20 mins late all bunched up. By car it takes 20 mins, get in the car and go.

 

There are times where I choose to wait for the bus instead of driving to the subway since I'm going to be paying $2.25 anyway, but guess what? The bus comes late and/or bunched and crowded, or I get flagged. In all that time waiting I would have been ON the subway, or sometimes AT my destination if I drove.

 

I also like how sole-transit riders feel they're not polluting the environment when they get into gas guzzling buses, with big tires that needed a lot of oil to create, as well as getting into Electricity guzzling trains which is still mostly produced by burning coal. Lets not kid ourselves.

It's amazing how the power and needs of a few outweigh the powers and needs of the many. How un-Vulcan.

 

Chicago has us easliy beat. 2 airports, 2 subway lines to the central business district. Bravo, Chicagoland!

 

They should just extend the train and get it over with. If necessary branch it off over the Grand Central Parkway so no one can say anything about it. And we have three airports Airtrain, and Newark Airport link or whatever that thing is called