checkmatechamp13 Posted March 12, 2012 Share #26 Posted March 12, 2012 Well before the Target was built at the junction, it used to be a low-use municipal parking lot. Plenty of room for a portal, and it was in the right place two for a quick turn to the left, then by time it crossed over the Bay Ride ROW, it would be high enough to curve back over Nostrand Av (or Flatbush Avenue if you want to run it to Marine Park instead of Sheepshead Bay, I always preferred Marine since it is NOWHERE near a subway service, where at least parts of Sheepshead Bay has the ). For it curving back onto Nostrand, it would have looked sort of similar (in form) to the portal by 3Av-149th, that quick jog to the left, then back off to the right continuing on the road it was on as structure. I liked Flatbush because of the greater need in the neighborhood it was heading in, and it curved in the direction of Flatbush anyway to the portal area If the Utica Avenue Line were to be built, then there wouldn't really be as much of a need for it to go down Flatbush Avenue, because the people in that area would be able to backtrack a little bit to Utica Avenue. But if the Utica Avenue Line wasn't built, then yeah, Flatbush Avenue would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted March 12, 2012 Share #27 Posted March 12, 2012 To answer one of the thread starter's question, these are a couple of water table maps of the region. Judging from other lines and stations in the city, the smallest depth of the trunk has to be ~20 feet. From the map it is seen that in southern Brooklyn large areas have higher water table than the assumed limit. http://pubs.usgs.gov/sim/3066/pdf/SIM3066_s1p.pdf USGS Long Island Depth to Water Viewer Traffic warning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share #28 Posted March 12, 2012 The best idea would be the 1930's idea. Have them meet at Kings Plaza. The & can travel down Nostrand Avenue to Avenue U and turn. From there it would direct travel to Kings Plaza were whatever service running down Utica Avenue would terminate. A cheaper idea would be to use the and have some trains run down the Utica Avenue Line during rush hours. All of these lines would be elevated. The Kings Plaza-Marine Park station would be a four tracked elevated station which would be the terminal for the & trains. This would be similar to the Coney Island station which is the terminal for the & trains except smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 12, 2012 Share #29 Posted March 12, 2012 @LTA1992: Actually, Jamaica-179 St was built to be a terminal. That's why it has so many lay-up tracks. Actually, the line was planned to go further into Queens, if you look at the IND Second System. Those "layup" tracks are provisions for further extention, that's why they are so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 12, 2012 Share #30 Posted March 12, 2012 The best idea would be the 1930's idea. Have them meet at Kings Plaza. The & can travel down Nostrand Avenue to Avenue U and turn. From there it would direct travel to Kings Plaza were whatever service running down Utica Avenue would terminate. A cheaper idea would be to use the and have some trains run down the Utica Avenue Line during rush hours. All of these lines would be elevated. The Kings Plaza-Marine Park station would be a four tracked elevated station which would be the terminal for the & trains. This would be similar to the Coney Island station which is the terminal for the & trains except smaller. According to the 30's plan, the Utica Ave line would have been a B division line connecting to the 2 & 6 Avenue subways. The Kings Plaza station would be doble decked and would span multiple divisons, like at Queensboro Plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted March 12, 2012 Share #31 Posted March 12, 2012 I know it wasn't meant to be a terminal, but couldn't they have made it with layup tracks? I like your idea, but I think the Nostrand Ave line should run down Flatbush Ave after the junction stop, since going from Utica to Nostrand Ave is going backwards. They can both terminate at Kings Plaza, both lines being eleavted, so it can look like the Coney Island station. I'm sorry, but the railfan got to the best of me! B) I think it was to allow people to choose which train to take on the same level. Otherwise I do agree they should've made the tracks go a full train length (and more) past the platform - not just for storing trains, but so the trains can enter the station at full speed. Also they should've had cross unders to allow people to choose which train they want at the middle of the platform than to go all the way around the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboroughBridge Posted March 13, 2012 Share #32 Posted March 13, 2012 The best idea would be the 1930's idea. Have them meet at Kings Plaza. The & can travel down Nostrand Avenue to Avenue U and turn. From there it would direct travel to Kings Plaza were whatever service running down Utica Avenue would terminate. A cheaper idea would be to use the and have some trains run down the Utica Avenue Line during rush hours. All of these lines would be elevated. The Kings Plaza-Marine Park station would be a four tracked elevated station which would be the terminal for the & trains. This would be similar to the Coney Island station which is the terminal for the & trains except smaller. hey this sounds very similar to something I heard before.... I like your idea, but I think the Nostrand Ave line should run down Flatbush Ave after the junction stop, since going from Utica to Nostrand Ave is going backwards. They can both terminate at Kings Plaza, both lines being eleavted, so it can look like the Coney Island station. I'm sorry, but the railfan got to the best of me! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caltrain Posted March 13, 2012 Share #33 Posted March 13, 2012 A heavy rail Nostrand extension and a New Utica Subway would be great, but I don't think the costs would be politically feasible. A more likely scenario would be construction of a Light Rail line starting within the Nostrand Ave AC Station Mezzanine, continuing down Utica to the Bay Ridge ROW, turning down the bay ridge row, to Nostrand. At Nostrand the line could split with one branch continuing in the Bay Ridge ROW to the 62st D station, and the other turning down Nostrand avenue to Emmons Ave where the line could turn towards Coney Island/Stillwell Ave. This could also provide a cheaper starting point for building the Triboro RX. I know Light Rail is unpopular in the subway forums, but with its low construction cost, flexiblity to run on streets or dedicated row's, it could provide service comparable to subways in frequency and speed, until ridership demands justify construction of heavy rail subway extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 13, 2012 Share #34 Posted March 13, 2012 A heavy rail Nostrand extension and a New Utica Subway would be great, but I don't think the costs would be politically feasible. A more likely scenario would be construction of a Light Rail line starting within the Nostrand Ave AC Station Mezzanine, continuing down Utica to the Bay Ridge ROW, turning down the bay ridge row, to Nostrand. At Nostrand the line could split with one branch continuing in the Bay Ridge ROW to the 62st D station, and the other turning down Nostrand avenue to Emmons Ave where the line could turn towards Coney Island/Stillwell Ave. This could also provide a cheaper starting point for building the Triboro RX. I know Light Rail is unpopular in the subway forums, but with its low construction cost, flexiblity to run on streets or dedicated row's, it could provide service comparable to subways in frequency and speed, until ridership demands justify construction of heavy rail subway extensions. The Triboro RX plan in reality can't happen since the northern section is owned by Amtrak and they won't give it up. The only section that would probably see any use is the Brooklyn section. Also the Brooklyn section doesn't have a way to go to Coney Island. It goes directly to Fourth Avenue or the 59th Street Station. The suggestion that I typically suggest, and it is somewhat similar to what BJSM and CenSin mentions is to extend the down from it's current terminal onto the Bay Ridge Branch all the way down to 59th Street. People can transfer to the for Coney Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 13, 2012 Share #35 Posted March 13, 2012 hey this sounds very similar to something I heard before.... Not trying to be mean I found that plan in the 1960 subway expansion proposal map. It was a long while ago. I don't know, but it was maybe before you came. I just brought it back up from the dead. You can use it too. Here it is. From the NY Times. The year was 1969. An interesting thing I found out is that they built the tunnel portals for the Utica Avenue Line on the already before they stopped the project. It is often visible on passing trains near the Utica Avenue Station. Also in the 1970's when expansions were planned again the Utica Avenue Subway came back alight. Instead the proposal was to extend the down Utica Avenue. That never happened either. There was a map of this too, but I can't find it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caltrain Posted March 13, 2012 Share #36 Posted March 13, 2012 The Triboro RX plan in reality can't happen since the northern section is owned by Amtrak and they won't give it up. The only section that would probably see any use is the Brooklyn section. Also the Brooklyn section doesn't have a way to go to Coney Island. It goes directly to Fourth Avenue or the 59th Street Station. The suggestion that I typically suggest, and it is somewhat similar to what BJSM and CenSin mentions is to extend the down from it's current terminal onto the Bay Ridge Branch all the way down to 59th Street. People can transfer to the for Coney Island. If the full Triboro RX was implemented using standard commuter rolling stock such as LIRR, or Metro North cars (electrical incompatibilities aside), then it could likely integrate with Amtraks schedules on the northern section and across the Hells gate bridge, which also appears to be wide enough for 4 tracks. In many places, Amtrak shares lines with local commuter service. As for going to Coney Island, my proposal was to use light rail on surface streets from Nostrand to Coney Island, extending rail service to new areas. I agree that a transfer to the N would be preferable for Triboro RX passengers traveling to Coney Island or on an L train extended down the Bay Ridge line to 59th st. I just think NYC is missing out on many feeder opportunities in the outer boroughs that could be provided by BRT or Light rail to infill the gaps between and beyond subway lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted March 13, 2012 Share #37 Posted March 13, 2012 If the full Triboro RX was implemented using standard commuter rolling stock such as LIRR, or Metro North cars (electrical incompatibilities aside), then it could likely integrate with Amtraks schedules on the northern section and across the Hells gate bridge, which also appears to be wide enough for 4 tracks. In many places, Amtrak shares lines with local commuter service. As for going to Coney Island, my proposal was to use light rail on surface streets from Nostrand to Coney Island, extending rail service to new areas. I agree that a transfer to the N would be preferable for Triboro RX passengers traveling to Coney Island or on an L train extended down the Bay Ridge line to 59th st. I just think NYC is missing out on many feeder opportunities in the outer boroughs that could be provided by BRT or Light rail to infill the gaps between and beyond subway lines. The truth is though that area is well served by the Brighton Beach Line (. You won't get much ridership. I am betting that you are one of the light rail fans though, and a lot of people on these forums are. There is a proposal for light rail on Staten Island. You might want to look into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted March 14, 2012 Share #38 Posted March 14, 2012 I know it wasn't meant to be a terminal, but couldn't they have made it with layup tracks? Well, the IRT really weren't planning to run out of money for construction sooo, i guess not. Wasn't the exit to Avenue H built later? Or am I wrong on that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.