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East New York

5 Express Train to Crown Heights-Utica Ave.

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Actually I was thinking they should send a train or two more down Nostrand than they currently do. Then, in order to prevent trains from bunching up on the Nostrand line, select (5)s should run express by just skipping stops down Nostrand following one of these two stopping patterns:

 

Franklin-Sterling-Church-Flatbush (regular EXP)

 

Franklin-Church-Flatbush (super EXP)

 

Whether the (5) train should go EXP or super EXP depends on how much time needs to be (re)gained so that the (5) train in question can leave Flatbush on time on its next trip and also depends on whether a (2) is directly behind. I think (2)s should still make all the local stops (unless, of course, a train is delayed and it has to run express to Flatbush to regain the lost time), in order to maintain consistency ((2)s run local on the main Brooklyn IRT line, so they should run local on the Nostrand branch, and (5)s run express on the main Brooklyn IRT line, so they should run express on the Nostrand branch). Also (2)s are less frequent than (5)s, so if a (2) skips stops it is a much bigger deal.

 

In order for this to be possible, no train can have more than four minutes built into the schedule to turn around. Some (5) trains might get three in order to accommodate the slightly higher frequency. Ideally, it would be worked out so that some [or most] of the (5)s that currently serve Utica or New Lots get sent down Nostrand, and these additional trains go EXP or super EXP. It would work out because it would improve service at the stations that are generally the heaviest. I know Winthrop and Newkirk are heavier than Sterling, but I chose Sterling because I wanted the stops to be more evenly spaced.

 

Select trains (again, I was thinking the (5)s only) would also skip stops heading north on Nostrand, following one of the two stopping patterns I posted above, depending on circumstances. This would be used as a mechanism to make up for any extra lost time and would be done so that if, perhaps, a (3) and a (5) are due at Rogers junction at the same time with the current setup in which the (5) runs local on Nostrand, the (5) would instead run express to gain time (even as little as a minute or two) and go through the junction before the (3).

 

At the end of the day, the goal is to have the (2)s serve every station along Nostrand at headways no greater than 8 minutes during the rush, and to have the (5)s serve Flatbush and Church Aves at headways no greater than 6 minutes during the rush. Right now (2)s and (5)s are sometimes 8 minutes apart during AM rush hour and 11 minutes apart during PM rush hour, and this really should not happen. If this cannot be fixed by having trains make all stops on Nostrand, then at least some trains should go EXP so that all trains that go down Nostrand serve the busiest stations. The following AM rush schedule for trains arriving at and departing from Flatbush Avenue was what I had in mind. The PM rush hour schedule would be similar, perhaps the same. In the PM there definitely should be no fewer (5)s than are listed below. This is a one-hour period:

 

--(5) arrives west at :36

 

>(2) departs east at :36

 

+(2) arrives east at :38

 

--(5) departs west at :40

 

=(5) arrives west at :42

 

+(2) departs east at :42

 

=(5) departs west at :45

 

@(2) arrives east at :46

 

#(5) arrives west at :47

 

@(2) departs east at :50

 

#(5) departs west at :51

 

$(5) arrives east at :52

 

%(2) arrives west at :53

 

$(5) departs east at :56

 

%(2) departs west at :57

 

^(5) arrives east at :58

 

&(2) arrives west at :59

 

^(5) departs east at :02

 

&(2) departs west at :03

 

*(5) arrives east at :04

 

"-(2) arrives west at :05

 

*(5) departs east at :08

 

"-(2) departs west at :09

 

<(5) arrives east at :10

 

<(5) departs east at :13

 

~(2) arrives west at :13

 

||(5) arrives east at :15

 

~(2) departs west at :17

 

||(5) departs east at :19

 

/(2) arrives west at :19

 

_(5) arrives east at :21

 

/(2) departs west at :23

 

_(5) departs east at :24

 

""(5) arrives west at :25

 

\(2) arrives east at :26

 

""(5) departs east at :29

 

\(2) departs west at :30

 

``(5) arrives east at :31

 

;;(2) arrives west at :32

 

``(5) departs east at :35

 

;;(2) departs west at :36

 

}(5) arrives east at :37

 

](2) arrives west at :38

 

}(5) departs east at :41

 

](2) departs west at :42

 

(5) arrives east at :43

 

Exactly 20 trains in, 20 out in a 60-minute period.

 

East or west refers to the track used by the train in question. The symbols at the beginning of each line are there to denote trains. For example the train denoted by -- was the (5) that arrived on the west track at :36 (minutes after the hour) and departed from that same track at :40 (minutes after the hour).

 

Three trains have three minutes to turn around, the = train (:42 to :45), the < train (:10 to :13), and the _ train (:21 to :24). All others have more than three minutes.

 

Would all of this work, assuming the (2)s were not restricted to the east track and the (5)s were not restricted to the west track? Also with the restriction gone, the route selector board at Newkirk would be obsolete. I came up with a way to eliminate this restriction while preventing crews from having to run around the station to get to their trains, so I know the restriction is not impossible to eliminate.

 

I know it looks weird to have a train "arriving" on the east track one minute after a train "departed" from the west track, but I know they try to have all the (2)s come in on the east track and all the (5)s come in on the west track now, and the schedules online (google transit, MTA trip planner) say that some (2) trains are scheduled to "arrive" one minute after a (5) train "departs." And according to the schedules it seems like a train cannot be parked on a pocket track less than two minutes after a train has completely vacated that same pocket track.

 

Of course if trains are running a little late and both pocket tracks are open by the time the next train arrives at Flatbush, that train just takes the east track and its follower takes the west track if it is directly behind.

 

If the (2)/(5) ever get extended south of the Junction, I wonder how long it will take to travel from The Junction to Kings Plaza or Sheephead Bay? These lines are already pretty long.

 

If it went down Nostrand, stopping at "L", Kings, "R", "U", "X", and Voorhies I would say 9 to 12 minutes.

 

If it went down Flatbush, stopping at "J", Kings, Quentin, Fillmore, and KP, I would say 8 to 10. Another 2 to the Toys R Us, another 2 to Floyd Bennett.

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If the Nostrand Avenue Line were to be extended down the street, how would they go about passing through the ex-Bay Ridge Branch. Trains still use that line so it can't be interrupted.

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If the Nostrand Avenue Line were to be extended down the street, how would they go about passing through the ex-Bay Ridge Branch. Trains still use that line so it can't be interrupted.

 

I remember this little blurb in the 2004 Commemorative Edition of Tracks Of The New York City Subway, on the page that shows Flatbush Station:

 

Plans are afoot to extend this trackway beyond the Flatbush Avenue station in the first phase of a plan intended to add storage capacity and service to the Nostrand Avenue line. According to the MTA's present Capital Plan, subsequent work will link the extended trackway with new layup tracks created on a nearby, lightly used Long Island Rail Road right-of-way.

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If the Nostrand Avenue Line were to be extended down the street, how would they go about passing through the ex-Bay Ridge Branch. Trains still use that line so it can't be interrupted.

 

They could make the tunnel dip under the ROW right after the station (Like how underwater tubes dip under the river bed right after a station).

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But in the thread I created about the Nostrand/Utica transit lines, it was said that due to water table issues it would not be easy to run a subway south of the Junction. The Nostrand Avenue subway gradually rises as you go south from about Sterling Street or so because the water table also rises, and the subway could not conflict with the water table. Hence the fact that fare control is at platform level at stations south of Winthrop. The extension of the Nostrand line would have to be elevated over the street.

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Tonight I hopped aboard the last Brooklyn bound (5) train from 125th St., and noticed the LED indicator read Utica Av, and the strip map ended at Franklin Av.

 

Does this happen often? I have never know for a (5) train to be re-routed up Eastern Parkway. Needless to say, when we got to Franklyn, half the train transfered to the (2) and we were packed in like sardines.

 

At the end of the pm rush there are 4 (5) trains scheduled to end at Utica Ave or New Lots. Those trains then lay-up in Livonia Yard for am service. The first one leaves New Lots at approx 5:50 am in service to Dyre. The next 2 trains run light from New Lots to FLATBUSH. They represent the first 2 Lex trains from Flatbush in the morning. The last put in leaves New Lots at 7:50 am scheduled to end at East 180th St at 9:02. The pm rush trains I'm sure about because I made that run for 20 years. Hope this helps. Carry on.

Edited by Trainmaster5

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5 trains total end back up at Livonia now though (probably with the extended Flatbush hours instituted a few picks back), had the job that cleaned out those trains at Utica (of course one went to New Lots in service as normal).

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5 trains total end back up at Livonia now though (probably with the extended Flatbush hours instituted a few picks back), had the job that cleaned out those trains at Utica (of course one went to New Lots in service as normal).

 

My C/R says that there are still only four Dyre lay-ups at Livonia overnight. The 1912,1922,1932, and 1943 are the lay-ups. You might be thinking back to the time when we had six Dyre trains heading out that way but two of them relayed at Utica and returned uptown. Obviously you cleaned out our train at Utica. I used to be the first one there every night before we decided to become the Nevins "gap" crew and became the last lay-up instead. In the end they/we decided that didn't work so we ended up being the New Lots put-in in the afternoon and went into service at Utica. We didn't complain 'cause one trip is one trip(penalty job,too) and those were hard to come by back then. I've been planning to run over to Utica and ride my old interval up to Dyre and back. I want to see if the people at Nevins St or Franklin Ave are still asking "are you going to Flatbush?" even though the side signs and announcements say "Crown Heights, Utica".

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Thats probably what im thinking, one of those five trains relays and goes back uptown, but since im up there I clean it out anyway. The rest layup

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Guest lance25

@Trainmaster5: I'm sure they still do. I think it's absolutely hilarious that people still assume it's a Flatbush train simply because it's a (5), despite everything saying it's going to Utica. Same thing with the (2)s to New Lots. I mean it's even printed in the schedule and was on the big map's service guide for a while. And yet, everyday, the conductor has to practically scream that it's not a Flatbush train. Eh, what are you gonna do?

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It's not on the map (not saying it should be). And given that nobody reads the timetables (who follows them anyway?), it's not surprising that people are confused. For clarification, they ask the conductor.

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At the end of the pm rush there are 4 (5) trains scheduled to end at Utica Ave or New Lots. Those trains then lay-up in Livonia Yard for am service. The first one leaves New Lots at approx 5:50 am in service to Dyre. The next 2 trains run light from New Lots to FLATBUSH. They represent the first 2 Lex trains from Flatbush in the morning. The last put in leaves New Lots at 7:50 am scheduled to end at East 180th St at 9:02. The pm rush trains I'm sure about because I made that run for 20 years. Hope this helps. Carry on.

 

Do those 2 Livonia-Flatbush light runs turn around at that middle track at Atlantic Avenue? Because it'd be pretty hard to turn at Franklin Avenue.

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One (5) train had Crown Heights-Utica on the train destination even though the countdown clocks said it was going to New Lots Avenue, this was the last (5) train to Brooklyn or second to last train.

 

onthego.mta.info (and other mta data) also has the last 4 trains to Brooklyn terminating at New Lots Avenue.

Edited by GreatOne2k

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A few months ago, around 9 PM on a Saturday night I rode a (2) home, and when it got to Flatbush the train was taken OOS. I was like WTF as I never seen a train get taken OOS there before, this thread kinda answers my Question that I was wondering about when this happened.

 

I assume that train layed up @ Liovnia yard. Train could have been BO but nothing didn't appear to be wrong with the train and it ran fine.

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Do those 2 Livonia-Flatbush light runs turn around at that middle track at Atlantic Avenue? Because it'd be pretty hard to turn at Franklin Avenue.

 

As a matter of fact, they do. Sometimes, When I ride the (5) really early in the morning, it gets held up in between Franklin and Atlantic, all thanks to that light run...

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Tonight I hopped aboard the last Brooklyn bound (5) train from 125th St., and noticed the LED indicator read Utica Av, and the strip map ended at Franklin Av.

 

Does this happen often? Yes Every Morning I Hope On The <5> and it says to Utica and the strip ends at Franklin.

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Tonight I hopped aboard the last Brooklyn bound (5) train from 125th St., and noticed the LED indicator read Utica Av, and the strip map ended at Franklin Av.

 

Does this happen often? Yes Every Morning I Hope On The <5> and it says to Utica and the strip ends at Franklin.[/Quote]

 

Kinda. If you've read the previous posts, you'd know it's done so (5) & (2) trains can get access Livonia Yard, which is at the end of the (3) line.

 

I've done it again... QUOTECEPTION!

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I've done it again... QUOTECEPTION!

 

I think it's because East New York's quote was not quoted correctly, leaving only the first quote tag. When you quoted King of RedBirds, your quote tag ended both ENY's quote and KRB's quote.

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One (5) train had Crown Heights-Utica on the train destination even though the countdown clocks said it was going to New Lots Avenue, this was the last (5) train to Brooklyn or second to last train.

 

onthego.mta.info (and other mta data) also has the last 4 trains to Brooklyn terminating at New Lots Avenue.

 

I know exactly what you mean. This also happens with the (4). There's one (4) train at the end of AM Rush, and a few during PM Rush, scheduled to end at New Lots Av, but the crews of those trains kick you off at Utica and run light from there to New Lots Av.

 

I don't know why it's done, but I think some T/O on here said doing this helps keep traffic moving better when the New Lots line overflows with traffic. That makes sense during the AM Rush where trains from all four lines going to Livonia Yard and demand isn't all that high, but it puzzles me during PM Rush, where traffic arguably isn't as bad as the end of AM Rush (during the Middle of PM Rush, it's just a few extra (4) trains and at the end of PM Rush, a few (5) trains) and a few Lexington Av trains in service to New Lots actually would be well-used.

 

Although, I did ride one New Lots (4) over PM Rush a while back that actually stayed in service all the way to New Lots, but some people at Utica just skipped it to wait for the (3). [The (4) train was still fairly packed, though.] I guess some people are comfortable just waiting for the normal train.

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I think it's because East New York's quote was not quoted correctly, leaving only the first quote tag. When you quoted King of RedBirds, your quote tag ended both ENY's quote and KRB's quote.

 

No, It actually only ended ENY's quote, but I manually fixed it so it would look like that.

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I know exactly what you mean. This also happens with the (4). There's one (4) train at the end of AM Rush, and a few during PM Rush, scheduled to end at New Lots Av, but the crews of those trains kick you off at Utica and run light from there to New Lots Av.

 

I don't know why it's done, but I think some T/O on here said doing this helps keep traffic moving better when the New Lots line overflows with traffic. That makes sense during the AM Rush where trains from all four lines going to Livonia Yard and demand isn't all that high, but it puzzles me during PM Rush, where traffic arguably isn't as bad as the end of AM Rush (during the Middle of PM Rush, it's just a few extra (4) trains and at the end of PM Rush, a few (5) trains) and a few Lexington Av trains in service to New Lots actually would be well-used.

 

Although, I did ride one New Lots (4) over PM Rush a while back that actually stayed in service all the way to New Lots, but some people at Utica just skipped it to wait for the (3). [The (4) train was still fairly packed, though.] I guess some people are comfortable just waiting for the normal train.

 

Like the (5) to 238 St ending at Gun Hill Rd sometimes

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Tonight I hopped aboard the last Brooklyn bound (5) train from 125th St., and noticed the LED indicator read Utica Av, and the strip map ended at Franklin Av.

 

Does this happen often? I have never know for a (5) train to be re-routed up Eastern Parkway. Needless to say, when we got to Franklyn, half the train transfered to the (2) and we were packed in like sardines.

 

Yes...these are regularly scheduled runs. Flatbush can't handle turning all the trains, so it's necessary to divert some to Utica and send them back uptown.

 

In the mornings there are a couple (5) trains that begin out of New Lots. There are also plenty of southbound (5)'s in the PM's that discharge at Utica and run light to New Lots Yard. This is to get trains off the road after the PM rush and prepare for the gradual service reduction from to Flatbush, to Bowling Green, and eventually to E180th. Of course, some of these are the ones that become the morning put ins mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph. The (2) and (5) swap cars often in order to keep good service on both lines, particularly at Flatbush and among the yards, and this is one way in which that occurs in that there are more (5) layups to New Lots Yd than AM putins coming out of New Lots Yd. This is balanced by the (2) sending trains to New Lots after rush hours for layup.

 

The (5) is the most varied service in the IRT, with many terminals:

North Terminals

-238th/Nereid (put ins out of 239 Yard in the AM and layups in the PM)

-Dyre Ave.

-E. 180th St. (put ins out of E. 180th Yard)

-Gun Hill Rd./WPR (unofficial, many PM rush trains "to 238/Nereid" are dropped out here by local supervision to avoid congestion related delays that would affect (2) service)

 

South Terminals

-Utica Avenue (as mentioned)

-New Lots Avenue (for putins)

-Flatbush Avenue

-Bowling Green

-E. 180th (for shuttles)

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Same thing everyone said;

 

(4)(5) and (2) can be extended to Crown Heights or New Lots, because the line to Flatbush can handle only so many trains.

 

I think that they needed to put a third track in the middle when they originally built the line, straight from Utica to New Lots. I know there is one already, but it only bypasses 1 stop, and it is not even electrified. <4> (No, not the express, but the Rush Hour Service). The trains would still be listed as (4)s. They could use the center track on the <4><5> when they would be extended, and the (2) would just run on the Local.

 

To be honest, I really think that the (4) and (5) should run Eastern Pkwy., (4) on the Express to Crown Hts., then Local to New Lots, <5> on the Local, straight to New Lots, if they had decided to construct that middle track, (4) express all the way.

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What are you talking about, the (5) [Non-diamond] has always been here.

 

I will explain.

 

(5) is normal (5) service, to Bowling Green.

 

The <5> used to run to Flatbush Av back when they had R62s on the (5). The <5> is only found as the Bronx Express bullet now.

 

I was just playin, the <5> in Brooklyn is never gonna happen again. The MTA stopped doing rush hour diamonds <B><C><D> <M> <W> <4>, so I was just thought I might say it.

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