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Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)


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On 11/1/2018 at 12:19 AM, NY1635 said:

The n1 got diverted off route yesterday afternoon due to a car crash on Elmont Road near Dutch Broadway. I'll never understand why motorists feel the need to speed around that stretch between Dutch Broadway and Hempstead Turnpike. 

http://longisland.news12.com/story/39394780/police-out-of-control-car-strikes-4-teens-in-elmont

This didn't happen on Elmont Road, it happened on Dutch Broadway west of Elmont Road. It happened just west of the St. Boniface parking lot, perhaps they were turning fast from Elmont Road, or they were racing down the hill westbound  to beat the light and red light camera.

Someone in the comments of the story said they were racing. 

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7 hours ago, NY1635 said:

NICE is operating a new shuttle service between Port Washington and Roslyn LIRR starting January 20th. It must be for those seniors who live out of the n23 and n27's range in the North Shore.

 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Shore-Road-Shuttle

I take it they're trying to find a use for their surplus cutaways?

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7 hours ago, NY1635 said:

NICE is operating a new shuttle service between Port Washington and Roslyn LIRR starting January 20th. It must be for those seniors who live out of the n23 and n27's range in the North Shore.

 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Shore-Road-Shuttle

Sounds like the old N28 extended to Port Washington.

 

In any case, I wish that they would expand the service hours to include midday service as well. People don't just stop traveling during those hours. Seems a bit counterintuitive, especially since it's getting evening service.

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23 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Sounds like the old N28 extended to Port Washington.

 

In any case, I wish that they would expand the service hours to include midday service as well. People don't just stop traveling during those hours. Seems a bit counterintuitive, especially since it's getting evening service.

I'm not sure if the shuttle can sustain itself during the midday hours. The only market for it are seniors living off the retirement community on West Shore Road and people bound for the Industrial Park in Roslyn.  They're only looking to cover that really tiny area not served by the n23, or n20H.

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NICE released their winter schedules, which will take in effect on January 20th, 2019. Key changes include: Straightening out the n40/41 in Roosevelt and having the n43 run along Babylon Trunpike and Grand Avenue.

Splitting the n24 in half at Roosevelt Field Mall during the weekdays.

The n22x now running between 179th Street Subway and Hicksville during the rush while the n22 local runs between Mineola and Jamaica Bus Terminal. The n22x stopping outside of the Intermodal Center at Mineola Blvd and 2nd Street

Their new shuttle service along West Shore Road running between Roslyn LIRR and Port Washington LIRR.

Their graphics in the link below will explain the changes much better than I can because it sounds like they're frustrated with the n22 and n24. 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Summer-2018-Schedule-Changes

Edited by NY1635
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30 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

NICE released their winter schedules, which will take in effect on January 20th, 2019. Key changes include: Straightening out the n40/41 in Roosevelt and having the n43 run along Babylon Trunpike and Grand Avenue.

Splitting the n24 in half at Roosevelt Field Mall during the weekdays.

The n22x now running between 179th Street Subway and Hicksville during the rush while the n22 local runs between Mineola and Jamaica Bus Terminal. The n22x stopping outside of the Intermodal Center at Mineola Blvd and 2nd Street

Their new shuttle service along West Shore Road running between Roslyn LIRR and Port Washington LIRR.

Their graphics in the link below will explain the changes much better than I can because it sounds like they're frustrated with the n22 and n24. 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Summer-2018-Schedule-Changes

At that point, is the n41 designation really going to be retained? It's the exact same route as the n40 now.

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I would say this is actually a very good set of service changes for NICE, especially considering that about a year ago, every service change was just a service cut.

Splitting the n22 into a inner local section and an outer express section will speed up trips a lot for passengers going east of Roosevelt Field, but I'd local services to get more crowded because the n22x doesn't service 165th Street.

Splitting the n24 into two weekday legs basically returns weekday service on the route to its previous form (minus the East Meadow branch). I'm not familiar enough with this route to see how it will play out.

Swapping the alignments of the n41 and n43 services in Roosevelt is a solid booster for frequency along Main Street (since the n43 was not synchronized time-wise with the n40 along that leg), and since the frequency on the n41's Babylon Turnpike leg is about the same as the n43's frequency (every 30 minutes on weekdays, though with some minor variations in the case of the n43), the frequency of service remains the same. However, Babylon Turnpike and Grand Avenue passengers now have to transfer to reach Hempstead and Mineola, but they do gain a one-seat ride to NCC and Roosevelt Field (I'd say that the former two are slightly more important to the average passenger). NICE should've also done away with the n41 designation here, as the route is now the exact same as the n40.

Shifting the n6 to a headway system isn't terrible due to the route's frequency: every 10 minutes weekdays and Saturdays, and every 12 minutes on Sundays. I saw that they only did the change for weekdays, when I think changing it for weekends as well would have been acceptable! Alas, I cannot praise the headway management system on my own route (the n31/32), as since September, despite the service increase to every 15 minutes (which it didn't need, if you ask me), what was likely once one of NICE's more reliable routes has really sagged (there are regular 30 minute gaps in service now).
 

The Shore Road shuttle (basically an extended variation of the old n28) was not something I thought I would ever see coming to light, and the reality is that this route will likely not last very long. Based upon the different style of publicity (the online timetable is completely different from the rest of the routes in terms of layout, font, etc...), as well as basing the service around connections to the LIRR, the Shore Road shuttle is clearly an attempt to capture the LIRR commuter market... but the service's two main intermediate stops are a retirement home and an industrial park, which are places where LIRR riders will likely not be coming from or going to. And even if it was a commuter shuttle similar to the n57, it would almost certainly fail, because most LIRR passengers would rather not use a bus. If this route somehow manages to get some riders, I could see it becoming a secondary rush-hour branch of the n23 (the n23a?). Otherwise, I'll give it a year tops before it gets cut. If NICE really wanted to find a better place for its minibuses, mid-day service on the Elmont Flexi would be a good start.

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A bit confused on the n22 plan here. The Mineola - Hicksville section will now only be serviced by the n22X? And the local is to start at Mineola, and run only from there to Jamaica? I would hopefully be able to understand this better if there was an actual link to the new schedule. I guess they just haven't gotten around to creating it yet.

Another thing, what is the thinking behind splitting the n24 into two legs without adding suffixes to make the separation clearer to riders. Yes, it may be part time, but why even part time? Just stick with something and do it. I definitely appreciate the thought they've put into these routes though, the 24 has consistently been one of the least reliable routes from my experience.

By the way, even though it's now been well over a year (and a half haha), I am still mourning the loss of my beloved n22A. Truthfully, the service may not have provided the demand necessary to sustain the route, but it's been pretty difficult to live without it. the n27 just doesn't fit the niche for me. No talk of bringing it back, right?

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On 12/28/2018 at 6:27 AM, 67thAve said:

I would say this is actually a very good set of service changes for NICE, especially considering that about a year ago, every service change was just a service cut.

Splitting the n22 into a inner local section and an outer express section will speed up trips a lot for passengers going east of Roosevelt Field, but I'd local services to get more crowded because the n22x doesn't service 165th Street.

Splitting the n24 into two weekday legs basically returns weekday service on the route to its previous form (minus the East Meadow branch). I'm not familiar enough with this route to see how it will play out.

Swapping the alignments of the n41 and n43 services in Roosevelt is a solid booster for frequency along Main Street (since the n43 was not synchronized time-wise with the n40 along that leg), and since the frequency on the n41's Babylon Turnpike leg is about the same as the n43's frequency (every 30 minutes on weekdays, though with some minor variations in the case of the n43), the frequency of service remains the same. However, Babylon Turnpike and Grand Avenue passengers now have to transfer to reach Hempstead and Mineola, but they do gain a one-seat ride to NCC and Roosevelt Field (I'd say that the former two are slightly more important to the average passenger). NICE should've also done away with the n41 designation here, as the route is now the exact same as the n40.

Shifting the n6 to a headway system isn't terrible due to the route's frequency: every 10 minutes weekdays and Saturdays, and every 12 minutes on Sundays. I saw that they only did the change for weekdays, when I think changing it for weekends as well would have been acceptable! Alas, I cannot praise the headway management system on my own route (the n31/32), as since September, despite the service increase to every 15 minutes (which it didn't need, if you ask me), what was likely once one of NICE's more reliable routes has really sagged (there are regular 30 minute gaps in service now).
 

The Shore Road shuttle (basically an extended variation of the old n28) was not something I thought I would ever see coming to light, and the reality is that this route will likely not last very long. Based upon the different style of publicity (the online timetable is completely different from the rest of the routes in terms of layout, font, etc...), as well as basing the service around connections to the LIRR, the Shore Road shuttle is clearly an attempt to capture the LIRR commuter market... but the service's two main intermediate stops are a retirement home and an industrial park, which are places where LIRR riders will likely not be coming from or going to. And even if it was a commuter shuttle similar to the n57, it would almost certainly fail, because most LIRR passengers would rather not use a bus. If this route somehow manages to get some riders, I could see it becoming a secondary rush-hour branch of the n23 (the n23a?). Otherwise, I'll give it a year tops before it gets cut. If NICE really wanted to find a better place for its minibuses, mid-day service on the Elmont Flexi would be a good start.

According to this article, The Shore Road Shuttle was funded by the 2019 Nassau County Budget. There's also some funding to restore Saturday Service on the n78/79.

http://manhassetpress.com/money-finally-found-to-reopen-sixth-precinct-and-more/

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Remaining schedules are now available:
https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n1_Jan2019.pdf

https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n22_Jan2019-v5.pdf

https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n24_Jan2019-v3.pdf

https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n26_Jan2019-v2.pdf (this one was already available, but I'm putting it here to make a point about certain changes that stick out to me)

n1 -- Weekend service seems completely untouched, but Weekday service from Jamaica/Hewlett to Elmont seems to have two changes. A new trip will be added at 6:45 AM out of Elmont going to Hewlett. And the last trip out of Jamaica to Hewlett will now depart at 7:09 PM instead of 7:05 PM.

n22 -- It seems that this split in service is only really applying to weekday rush hour trips departing Hicksville roughly between 6:30 AM - 8:30 AM, and 1:30 PM - 6:00 PM, and weekday rush hour trips departing Jamaica roughly between 6:00 AM - 9:00 AM, and 3:00 PM - 7:00 PM. Early morning, midday, and evening service on weekdays remain as full length n22 local trips. No major changes in weekend service, aside from minor timepoint adjustments. Weekend service will continue to operate as a fully local n22.

n24 -- For weekdays, it looks like only the first 3 trips & last 5 trips from Hicksville, along with the first 3 trips & last 4 trips (plus one trip leaving Jamaica at 6:15 PM) from Jamaica will all operate as full length trips. All remaining weekday service has been split. Weekend service remains pretty much the same.

n26 -- AM service to Jamaica, and PM service to Great Neck are to be eliminated. 6:22 AM & 7:35 AM trips from Jamaica will now depart at 6:19 AM & 7:38 AM respectively. 6:00 PM trip from Great Neck will now depart at 5:56 PM.

Edited by Axis
Didn't proofread the n22 part
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Attempted to edit my previous post too late to add the n54/n55 change:

https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n54n55_Jan2019-v3.pdf

n54/n55 -- Noticeable changes in departure times all around in weekday service. Doesn't look like any trips were cut though. That uneven distribution in weekday late morning/midday service is such an eyesore tbh...

No word yet on the n78/79. I do have to wonder if midday service will be restored too...unless there's not enough of a demand/push for it...

Edited by Axis
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1 hour ago, Axis said:

Attempted to edit my previous post too late to add the n54/n55 change:

https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n54n55_Jan2019-v3.pdf

n54/n55 -- Noticeable changes in departure times all around in weekday service. Doesn't look like any trips were cut though. That uneven distribution in weekday late morning/midday service is such an eyesore tbh...

No word yet on the n78/79. I do have to wonder if midday service will be restored too...unless there's not enough of a demand/push for it...

NICE should consider restoring service on the n54/55 back to the Amityville LIRR station, or the very least have the 55 terminate at Sunrise Mall while the 54 goes to Amityville. Service has been looking really unbalanced they truncate the route at Sunrise. 

 

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On 12/27/2018 at 5:52 PM, N6 Limited said:

How does Headway Management work Pick wise?

There is likely an internal schedule (Google Maps shows the scheduled departure times). It's just that they allow operators to run ahead of schedule or hold them back a bit more compared to the current setup. (Similar to the subway. There's a lot of people who don't realize that there actually is a schedule for it). 

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I get what they're doing with the n22/n24 - basically cutting down mileage/bus by not having so many trips (on both routes) running from Jamaica-Hicksville.... I still think though, that it should be the n22 running from Jamaica-RFM (with extended service to Hicksville as n22x's) & the n24 running between Jamaica & Mineola.... For all I care, the n24 trips they got running b/w RFM & Hicksville can be given a new route number..... I say all this because (unless things have drastically changed), the demand out of RFM has always been more for the n22 over the n24 back towards Jamaica.... The n24 sees more ridership (and quite frankly, takes longer) b/w Jamaica & Mineola than the n22 does.... Driving along Hillside av in Nassau county is a breeze, compared to Jericho Tpke....

I like what they're doing with the 22/22x (including not having the 22x's run to 165th), with the exception of the "cutoff" point being at Mineola.....

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 11:30 AM, RES2773 said:

A bit confused on the n22 plan here. The Mineola - Hicksville section will now only be serviced by the n22X? And the local is to start at Mineola, and run only from there to Jamaica? I would hopefully be able to understand this better if there was an actual link to the new schedule. I guess they just haven't gotten around to creating it yet.

The answer to both of your questions is, Only during the service span of the 22x (basically during peak & reverse peak hours).

...and the kicker is that, not all 22x's run to/from Hicksville either (it's more or less every other 22x)... There are quite a bit of 22x short turn trips that run from 179th subway to LIRR Mineola.

Link to new n22/x schedule: https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/img/NICE-n22_Jan2019-v5.pdf

Edited by B35 via Church
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I just found out that Great Neck will be getting it's own LIRR commuter shuttle starting this Monday. The bus operates within a small section of the community not served by the n57 and costs $10 for a one way weekly bus pass. I'm not so sure about the $2 switch to Train Credit, did they notify the LIRR about this?

https://www.greatneckbuzz.com/

Apparently it's a three month test that might be expanded if successful. 

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/lirr-great-neck-shuttle-1.25784793

Edited by NY1635
Found a news article.
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So apparently on the Transit app they show a couple express runs on the n24 I suspect that they aren't real, but the fact it comes with its own schedule is very interesting.  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jLXbGIoDPQtBC6eOVbZwIVCreYri2mKI/view?usp=sharing 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16yoGmKf0OI8yla3vkmm0pcIGNDJ6YFTn/view?usp=sharing

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2 hours ago, IAlam said:

So apparently on the Transit app they show a couple express runs on the n24 I suspect that they aren't real, but the fact it comes with its own schedule is very interesting.  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jLXbGIoDPQtBC6eOVbZwIVCreYri2mKI/view?usp=sharing 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16yoGmKf0OI8yla3vkmm0pcIGNDJ6YFTn/view?usp=sharing

Since Transit just displays the data from NICE's GTFS feed, I imagine Transdev messed something up along the way. Unless this is an inclusion of a plan to be implemented... Either way very interesting, wonder if something will come of it.

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