Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[Burrstone]

These are definitely better conversations about NICE bus than what we had when I was part of the NYCTF staff. NICE job guys!

 

Anything is better than when you were a mod, the place is empty because everyone left during your "administration" becuase you were a terrible mod...  

 

The proof is in the statistics this place was at a high when you become mod and you were in power during the mass decline.  Hmm...  Then you dare come hear and mouth off about how the place is worse without you?  Really?

[RtrainBlues]

Surprisingly, everything was perfect yesterday (Sunday 8/24) in both directions all day long on the N4.  Buses came on-time at their regular 20 minute intervals up & down the line between Jamaica and Freeport.  They left Jamaica on time and Freeport on time, and even boarded at each terminal a couple of minutes early to remain on schedule.  No more 40-45 minute waits for 2 buses at a time (which had been happening practically every weekend.) 

 

I'm very impressed!

[Burrstone]

Of course you're the one complaining because I shot down your idea. Get over it. I kept the LIBRU bitching, useless complaints, needless repetitions and insane proposals out of here, and kept a clean, knowledgeable discussion on NICE and you know it. So yes, really, I am going to talk about my "administration" of this section because its better than what you read on here today.

 

LMAO, seriously?  You think this is about you shooting down an idea that off the top of my head, that had no research?  You really think I care that much about what you think or that you shooting down an idea of mine would still be stinging like a month later?  Hilarious!  The fact I have told you that you were a crappy mod, don't you remember?

 

You are proving you are not mature enough to be a mod...  The first job of a mod is to steer the thread back on topic, do what you have to keep the thread on topic,but you were the hijackig threads off topic just as you did tonight. 

 

You were too busy trying be Cartman from Southpark...

 

[Cait Sith]

Anything is better than when you were a mod, the place is empty because everyone left during your "administration" becuase you were a terrible mod...  

 

The proof is in the statistics this place was at a high when you become mod and you were in power during the mass decline.  Hmm...  Then you dare come hear and mouth off about how the place is worse without you?  Really?

 

 

LMAO, seriously?  You think this is about you shooting down an idea that off the top of my head, that had no research?  You really think I care that much about what you think or that you shooting down an idea of mine would still be stinging like a month later?  Hilarious!  The fact I have told you that you were a crappy mod, don't you remember?

 

You are proving you are not mature enough to be a mod...  The first job of a mod is to steer the thread back on topic, do what you have to keep the thread on topic,but you were the hijackig threads off topic just as you did tonight. 

 

You were too busy trying be Cartman from Southpark...

 

I died from laughter out of this.

 

Seriously though, back on topic please.

 

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On a side note, it SEEMS as if they've been doing some work to the soon-too-be-gone lower half of the 1600 series. Rode/recorded 1604 and 1608. They're much faster and ride a bit smoother than they did this past winter. There have been quite a lot of those running on the Hillside Avenue end these days.

 

The upper half of the 1600s(1633 and up) have been having some problems when it comes to the heat. It hasn't been too severe these days, but I have seen one of them break down in my area of Queens every now and then. Though then again, those were shit buses from the get-go.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Cait Sith
Typos.

[Burrstone]

Yes, I think you do care,..

Props to you on the photoshop, I can see you really go that EXTRA mile to make your posts thoroughly detailed!

 

It took a few extra minutes but it's worth it to show you care.

 

 

I died from laughter out of this.

 

Seriously though, back on topic please.

 

----------------------------------

 

On a side note, it SEEMS as if they've been doing some work to the soon-too-be-gone lower half of the 1600 series. Rode/recorded 1604 and 1608. They're much faster and ride a bit smoother than they did this past winter. There have been quite a lot of those running on the Hillside Avenue end these days.

 

The upper half of the 1600s(1633 and up) have been having some problems when it comes to the heat. It hasn't been too severe these days, but I have seen one of them break down in my area of Queens every now and then. Though then again, those were shit buses from the get-go.

 

I've noticed that with some and will throw in a 1606 and it seems they are out on routes more (or maybe I just see them on my routes more often)...  Do you think they were overhauled?  

 

They sure are ugly, I've said this before but it's too bad they didn't paint (or wrap) some of the V's that they planned on keeping around for a while.  If you see a V that's actually bee taken care of or repainted it looks really nice...

 

 

Though then again, those were shit buses from the get-go.

 

I've had my theories about Orion's lately but no real time to research anything and make it anything but a theory.  If anyone has time I recommend they ride the s1 for comparison, I relied the s1 last year for an internship and the 2010 Orion VII NG's are already having problems (and not getting better according to people I know who still ride and drive the s1)..  I would pray for a Gillig even all they were older and usually shorter (less sets more crowded).  At one point during the Holiday's the operators didn't have enough buses to cover all of the runs bc of breakdowns and a majority of the breakdowns were the VII NG's.  I was on a bus that broke down and we literally had to wait for the next one bc the yard didn't have a spare... 

[N6 Limited]

I've had my theories about Orion's lately but no real time to research anything and make it anything but a theory.  If anyone has time I recommend they ride the s1 for comparison, I relied the s1 last year for an internship and the 2010 Orion VII NG's are already having problems (and not getting better according to people I know who still ride and drive the s1)..  I would pray for a Gillig even all they were older and usually shorter (less sets more crowded).  At one point during the Holiday's the operators didn't have enough buses to cover all of the runs bc of breakdowns and a majority of the breakdowns were the VII NG's.  I was on a bus that broke down and we literally had to wait for the next one bc the yard didn't have a spare... 

This is a point I've bought up before. Everyone blames NICE for maintenance, but LIB had issues with these SAME buses, so either the issues started with LIB maintenance or Orion makes crap buses.

[Cait Sith]

It took a few extra minutes but it's worth it to show you care.

 

 

 

I've noticed that with some and will throw in a 1606 and it seems they are out on routes more (or maybe I just see them on my routes more often)...  Do you think they were overhauled?  

 

They sure are ugly, I've said this before but it's too bad they didn't paint (or wrap) some of the V's that they planned on keeping around for a while.  If you see a V that's actually bee taken care of or repainted it looks really nice...

 

 

 

I've had my theories about Orion's lately but no real time to research anything and make it anything but a theory.  If anyone has time I recommend they ride the s1 for comparison, I relied the s1 last year for an internship and the 2010 Orion VII NG's are already having problems (and not getting better according to people I know who still ride and drive the s1)..  I would pray for a Gillig even all they were older and usually shorter (less sets more crowded).  At one point during the Holiday's the operators didn't have enough buses to cover all of the runs bc of breakdowns and a majority of the breakdowns were the VII NG's.  I was on a bus that broke down and we literally had to wait for the next one bc the yard didn't have a spare... 

 

I don't think they've been overhauled to be honest. They did get some substantial suspension work done which kinda surprised me the most. 1604 has been taking them bumps kinda smoothly and is a bit less of a rattle box on the inside.

 

The higher tier 1600s were always bad since they hit LIB. I remember at least two supervisors and dispatchers a year or so before LIB became NICE telling me how much they've broken down during the LIB days. They originally wanted to hold onto the 1400s a little longer because of those buses.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Cait Sith

[qjtransitmaster]

Surprisingly, everything was perfect yesterday (Sunday 8/24) in both directions all day long on the N4.  Buses came on-time at their regular 20 minute intervals up & down the line between Jamaica and Freeport.  They left Jamaica on time and Freeport on time, and even boarded at each terminal a couple of minutes early to remain on schedule.  No more 40-45 minute waits for 2 buses at a time (which had been happening practically every weekend.) 

 

I'm very impressed!

Okay happens to me all the time.

[Burrstone]

The thing with maintenance is, even if LIB did have the same problems with the same buses, they were quicker to respond to fixing them and getting them onto the street safely. NICE pushes the damaged ones out of the depot and stresses them on the street before fixing them which only does more and more damage to the inside components. 

 

The thing that everyone is stressing is that if the buses were bad during the LIB days no matter how much "maintenance" is done these are not going to make them good buses.  Spending more on maintenance (that they don't have) is just a more expensive band-aid than  what NICE is doing...  Nothing short of an expensive overhaul would make these buses good.  It's not like a computer game where you increase maintenance and a bad bus becomes a good bus.  Once a bus is crap it's crap...  It's like buying a used car, if the previous owner beat the crap out it increasing the oil changes, "tune ups" etc won't make it a good car again.  Sure you can spend a lot of money and fix everything, but at what point is it  just too much on a used car you plan on hanging on to for a year or two?  Same thing with NICE, at what point is throwing money into a bus they plan keeping for a year?  Sure, NICE can rebuild a crappy engine or transmission, but what's the risk?  What if the transmission or motor goes next month?  NICE just spent thousands of dollars they don't have on a bus they plan on keeping for a year..

 

This is why, IMO, NICE is doing the right thing.  Slapping a band-aid on the problem buses, hoping  they can make it through the year.  The money is better spend on the VII's they inherited with problems that they will for years. 

[Quill Depot]

Yes, I think you do care, because on numerous occasions when somebody, not just me, has debated on here with you, you get a bit hot-headed and start lashing out, throwing insults, and creating a tantrum out of literally nothing. I think you've misunderstood "hijacking a thread" which is what FamousNYLover does every time he goes off-topic and says a bunch of nonsense, and then everyone chimes in to the nonsense. What I did was make a comment about the nonsense without steering things more off-topic because it didn't require a response. It's alright, you can go back to talking about LIBRU and stopping cars for firetrucks. That's clearly more interesting and more on-topic than talking about NICE. Props to you on the photoshop, I can see you really go that EXTRA mile to make your posts thoroughly detailed!

No offense to you, but I have to take the logical side and tell you to stop backseat moderating. You think you're some type of holy grail to this community.

[Cait Sith]

So, what you're saying, all the Orion VII 3Gs breaking down that are less than two years old are all bad? At this stage in the game, they shouldn't be breaking down. What NICE is doing is the only thing they can do with the money they have. If the bus doesn't run, it doesn't run, and if several buses don't run and missing route-runs start occurring, that's lost money for them. Although, at this point given ridership statistics, they've already lost money.

The thing with that logic is that new buses break down no matter what. New buses breaking down isn't anything new and shouldn't be a shock to anyone either, no matter how young they are in age. Hell, our LFSs and Xcelsiors still break the hell down here in the five boroughs and they're a year older than the VII CNGs!

 

Doesn't matter what kind of maintenance practices they have, new buses will break down regardless.

[Burrstone]

So, what you're saying, all the Orion VII 3Gs breaking down that are less than two years old are all bad? At this stage in the game, they shouldn't be breaking down. 

 

My comment was regarding the older V's not the NG's...  BUT I do think there are major problems with Orion's, as I pointed out before the 2010's SCTalso have problems...  ...But as Cait Smith said new buses break down,new trucks break down, trains breakdown, they are machines they malfunction, parts go bad, sometimes for no reason...

 

 

 What NICE is doing is the only thing they can do with the money...

 

Let's just assume you are 100% right and say even the brand new buses are breaking down because of maintenance and funding issues.  It is a funding issue, again, as I stated before the only problem with NICE is funding which is not Veolia's fault.  The NICE bashing is unjust, you can see it's a funding issue, but you can't help to bash Veolia/NICE as if it's their fault...???  You're becoming as bad as Pine with this!

 

 

Although, at this point given ridership statistics, they've already lost money.

 

And how much money have they (Veolia) made?

 

 

No offense to you, but I have to take the logical side and tell you to stop backseat moderating. You think you're some type of holy grail to this community.

I like how you came out of nowhere to say that. You clearly can't tell the difference between on-topic and off-topic in this section if you say that.

 

Kind like you came from nowhere and posted an off topic comment about how in your reality the place was better with you as a mod? Really?  Example # 117 of why you were a crappy mod, you would reprimand people for stuff you did all the time!

[Cait Sith]

On top of what I said, their budget for maintenance isn't very high either considering that they still have a small fleet of buses, so funding isn't that significant of an issue either especially since they have parts that are compatible with another bus. Parts aren't that expensive either. The real problem is their maintenance practices, which haven't been all that much better compared to Long Island Bus(which was also shitty).

Edited August 27, 2014 by Cait Sith

[N6 Limited]

The thing with maintenance is, even if LIB did have the same problems with the same buses, they were quicker to respond to fixing them and getting them onto the street safely. 

The DOT inspections of those buses before transfer to NICE say otherwise.

[Cait Sith]

The DOT inspections of those buses before transfer to NICE say otherwise.

 

Right, which is exactly why they sent almost 30 or so buses down to our neck of the woods.....NGs included! It was REALLY bad for them.

 

For them to do that, you know their maintenance wasn't worth praising.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Cait Sith

[Quill Depot]

I like how you came out of nowhere to say that. You clearly can't tell the difference between on-topic and off-topic in this section if you say that.

 

Neither can the former moderator, so what's the difference?

 

[Cait Sith]

Majority of the LFS and Xcelsior fleet isn't breaking down. Majority of NICE's fleet is...

 

Are you sure? Because you CLEARLY haven't stepped into the major parts they run along....our 4800s are dropping like flies, which is why we're STILL borrowing buses from other depots and to the point where we're bringing back retired buses to make service. Also, they look like their 10 years old already! We have quite a few LFSs down as it is as well.

 

It was just as bad in 2011 as it is now, but the difference is that NICE isn't preparing to move out. The MTA did have better maintenance before 2011 as they were expecting to stay. The Orion Vs (1800s and 1400s) were just getting old.

 

Better maintenance? Sure, maybe in another foreign country, but not here. The problems that had them send their buses down to the boroughs lasted YEARS....Even if the problems persisted in 2011 and if they DID have better maintenance, there would have been no need to send almost 50 buses down to the boroughs per week to get them all fixed. It doesn't matter if they were preparing to move out or not, the fact is that their maintenance sucked, straight up. That, along with your post is illogical.

 

As for the 1400s, you're clueless.

 

Cracked frames.

Advanced frame rot.

Cracked axles.

Body frame rot.

Blown turbos.

Blown engines.

Shot suspensions.

 

You're gonna sit here and tell me that they retired them just because they were too old? And you're gonna sit here and tell me that MTA had better maintenance? Even though you contradicted yourself in your post? If so, you are in denial and delusional. They WANTED to keep the 1400s around much longer because the higher 1600s are horrible in terms of how they ran and the rate they break down, but by law, because of the expiration of the CNG tanks along with the numerous issues internally with those buses, they have to let them retire. They were breaking down almost as much as the higher tier 1600s.

 

Funding is and will be an issue until the county does something. Look at the driver testaments on here.

What drivers know and what the higher ups know(which are my sources btw) are two completely different things. Drivers will ALWAYS....ALWAYS complain about things and I know this firsthand being that I've been in both NICE facilities several times(even before NICE). Hell, they bitched about the NGs and the 3Gs when they were new.

 

Also, some of the folks that work at Veolia in the management team are some of the same folks that managed Long Island Bus. And even they have said that not much has changed internally in terms how buses are maintained other than "we're doing our best to maintain service and provide service to passengers in Nassau County"

 

Again, funding is an issue, but not that much of an issue because parts are relatively cheap, especially with New Flyer providing parts at a lower rate. It's their maintenance practices that's screwing them over especially since they axed a number of their maintenance crews over the past year.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Cait Sith

[Joel Up Front]

Whatever they did to fix the bumpiness (NOT the way the NGs take bumps, note that) on the NGs worked.  Maybe they actually put air in the tires?

[Cait Sith]

Whatever they did to fix the bumpiness (NOT the way the NGs take bumps, note that) on the NGs worked.  Maybe they actually put air in the tires?

 

Improved the suspension, they've been doing quite a bit of improvements to various buses.

[Joel Up Front]

Speaking of the early 1600s, I've seen 1602 and 1606 a lot and they sound a lot better than the last time I was on them.


Do the O5s still struggle up hills?  All the hillier routes like the N20 and N25 are almost all NG nowadays so I never really get to observe them.

[Cait Sith]

Speaking of the early 1600s, I've seen 1602 and 1606 a lot and they sound a lot better than the last time I was on them.

 

 

Do the O5s still struggle up hills?  All the hillier routes like the N20 and N25 are almost all NG nowadays so I never really get to observe them.

They do, but that's primarily because of the Series 50Gs in them. And you're right, I haven't seen a 1500 or 1600 on the n25 in a minute...it's been mostly 17s and 1800s.

[N6 Limited]

Whatever they did to fix the bumpiness (NOT the way the NGs take bumps, note that) on the NGs worked.  Maybe they actually put air in the tires?

 

 

Improved the suspension, they've been doing quite a bit of improvements to various buses.

Part of the problem is NYC's crappy streets. Nassau's streets are mostly smooth. NYC however....

 

NYCDOT and MTA/NICE/Beeline should work together to makes sure that roads with buses are maintained and not unnecessarily increasing maintenance costs. Right now Hillside Ave is horrible (and yes, they are doing pipe work, etc), hopefully they repave it with concrete and not asphalt so that it can last a long time under the weight of the buses. We've seen the difference between bus stops with the concrete base and ones without.

[Cait Sith]

You're talking about the last few years of the 1400s, buses which well outlived their life span for CNG buses. The MTA retired them because it made more sense to scrap them and use those parts for the newer Orion Vs than to keep replacing parts in the 1400s to have them running safe and sound. Also, you don't need to tell me that the MTA sent down relief buses in 2011 and had inspection troubles. I was there, I saw it. And the insults weren't necessary. I haven't insulted you at all, have I?

 

Well, the question is, would you rather listen to drivers on here who work/worked for NICE and spoke to management on a daily basis, or to users like Burrstone who base their posts on speculation and opinions? As for management, there may be some from Long Island Bus still there, but the heads are still from Veolia and still do things their way and have the final say in how to spend to money and run things. New Flyer may sell cheaper parts, but the fact is, NICE still can't order that many with the few thousand a month they have for the parts budget.

It wasn't just because of the fact that they wanted to use the parts for the newer Vs, they also got into some shit for running some of those buses well-past their tank's expiration dates. Why did they do that? Because of the upper 1600s constantly breaking down! At the time of the 1400's retirement, they were short on buses because of the 1600s dropping left and right, meanwhile, the higher 1500s and lower 1600s were doing the work.

 

And I did say that the information I get straight from the source which does not include drivers, but higher-ups. Plus, NICE doesn't order that many parts per month especially with the way they've been handling the retirement of the CNGs from 1998-2000. Most of the parts from the VIIs are interchangeable from one another so that also nixes a necessity from them needing an excess amount of parts, same goes for the Vs. The way they have their maintenance budget set up is for every 5 years. As newer buses come along, the cost of maintenance will drop, and they've saved a lot with the new 1800s.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Cait Sith

[Joel Up Front]

Part of the problem is NYC's crappy streets. Nassau's streets are mostly smooth. NYC however....

 

NYCDOT and MTA/NICE/Beeline should work together to makes sure that roads with buses are maintained and not unnecessarily increasing maintenance costs. Right now Hillside Ave is horrible (and yes, they are doing pipe work, etc), hopefully they repave it with concrete and not asphalt so that it can last a long time under the weight of the buses. We've seen the difference between bus stops with the concrete base and ones without.

 

 

I have a list of streets that aren't:

 

Merrick Road, especially in between Jamaica and RVC

106/107 (except for some pothole mitigation near the LIE on-ramps)

Franklin Avenue (Franklin Square)

Hempstead Avenue

Roosevelt Field Bus Terminal proper (really bad potholes near the middle 3 bays)

 

If I wanted to venture any farther north than the LIE, then I'd go elsewhere, but the N25 to Great Neck is as far north on this Island as I want without driving.

[Burrstone]

Well, the question is, would you rather listen to drivers on here who work/worked for NICE and spoke to management on a daily basis, 

 

 

Drivers don't talk to the people in the loop, the decision makers,upper/mid level manager on a daily basis.  I can tell you from being a former driver (not NICE or the MTA) drivers get what you think is insider information from the rumor mill...  Some's true, some,s mixed, some's BS!

 

 I'm still waiting for Suffolk County Transit to become part of the , you know that's why the bought the  2010 Orion's after not buying Orion for years right?  Because the wanted Orion's to integrate into their fleet...   ...BTW this deal with Veolia is never going through...  Wait a tick, Veolia might be allowed to run up to half with the MTA's help...  Veolia will never be able to hit the ground running on Jan 1st, 2012, they aren't prepared to take over.  You think the delay's and missing buses were bad?  Just wait until the first week of 2012, Veolia is not prepared to run the system on the MTA's level.

 

 

Well, the question is, would you rather listen to drivers on here who work/worked for NICE and spoke to management on a daily basis, or to users like Burrstone who base their posts on speculation and opinions? 

 

Oh you're going to call me out like that and with a blatant lie?  (Not wanting too much of my personal life on the public forum)  You know because I told in the past that I know many higher up members of NICE, Veolia,and former members of NICE/Veolia.  Maybe you're just sore that if you want to talk to these people you have to go to a public meeting to plug your ideas and website while I can just walk in the front door, right past security...

 

The difference between you and I is they're busy, I'm busy, if I saw them I'd probably talk to them about them.  I'm not going to waste my time so I can waste their time to get "insider info" so I can try to prove my worth to a website or whatever it is you have going on...

 

 

 

As for management, there may be some from Long Island Bus still there, but the heads are still from Veolia and still do things their way and have the final say in how to spend to money and run things.

 

What makes you think LIB management knew best?  Of course Veolia has the last say...

 

Speaking of LIB management.  Many of them knew where they stood with the towards the last couple/few months of LIB. Some were offered jobs with other MTA facilities while others were offered nothing.  What a slap in the face that must be after years, or even decades of service. So I wouldn't expect any ex LIB workers to be very loyal to the .

 

While we're on the subject while top LIB management got "nice" LIRR jobs etc., what did the offer their "top" drivers?  Hound, as one of the most senior LIB opertors, would like to answer?  That's right nothing, they could've kept senior drivers like Hound on in the system until they retired with a full pension.  But they offered them nothing, that's why I don't understand why guy's like Hound are pro ?