Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[DetSMART45]

Saw a fare beater on the N20 today at roosevelt ave. Driver said to passenger hey you, & passenger said he has no change. Driver said fare beaters are making Nice lose money. If i was the driver I would have said get off the bus i am not moving untill you pay or leave.

You might find this hard to believe, but around here the operators actually DO what you suggest.

But that could also be because of audio/video cameras on SMART buses that are are monitored in real time, and dispatch that can get local police out lickety split.

Was on one bus, customer was yakking to operator.  All of a sudden, radio phone goes off, operator picks up, says the usual "Uh huh, uh huh" and turns to customer and tells them to get behind white line.

Plus the cameras are surprisingly sharp.  None of that blurry stuff you see on school bus footage or even the Cleveland RTA's recent "bum" assaulting a woman.  Footage used of an accident in court when an operator fell asleep at the wheel was very clear.

 

It all comes down to enforcing the rules and how customers view the bus operations.  For us, SMART's reputation has been on-time and clean buses, and operators who help to uphold that.  Even fellow passengers will chip-in the odd quarter or 50 cents in select instances, especially if they judge the person worthy of help.  Plus it helps if a bus full of people who want to stay on time presents itself as a formidable foe to the idiot wanting to give the operator a rough time over payment.  Guess that last scenario won't happen on NYC-area buses, given the fact that on-time performance is pretty much null and void, and customers just want the bus to get going since they're already screwed.

[FamousNYLover]

Saw a fare beater on the N20 today at roosevelt ave. Driver said to passenger hey you, & passenger said he has no change. Driver said fare beaters are making Nice lose money. If i was the driver I would have said get off the bus i am not moving untill you pay or leave.

Fare beaters are common almost everywhere.

 

You might find this hard to believe, but around here the operators actually DO what you suggest.

But that could also be because of audio/video cameras on SMART buses that are are monitored in real time, and dispatch that can get local police out lickety split.

Was on one bus, customer was yakking to operator.  All of a sudden, radio phone goes off, operator picks up, says the usual "Uh huh, uh huh" and turns to customer and tells them to get behind white line.

Plus the cameras are surprisingly sharp.  None of that blurry stuff you see on school bus footage or even the Cleveland RTA's recent "bum" assaulting a woman.  Footage used of an accident in court when an operator fell asleep at the wheel was very clear.

 

It all comes down to enforcing the rules and how customers view the bus operations.  For us, SMART's reputation has been on-time and clean buses, and operators who help to uphold that.  Even fellow passengers will chip-in the odd quarter or 50 cents in select instances, especially if they judge the person worthy of help.  Plus it helps if a bus full of people who want to stay on time presents itself as a formidable foe to the idiot wanting to give the operator a rough time over payment.  Guess that last scenario won't happen on NYC-area buses, given the fact that on-time performance is pretty much null and void, and customers just want the bus to get going since they're already screwed.

Just like DetSmart45 states:

Here are some example of fare beaters.

https://youtu.be/ZP7Xk2UZAWQ

 

[John from Flushing]

I watched the video, the driver made a quick exit from the driver window. Now I understand why bus drivers do not ask passengers to pay, shouldn't all passengers know they have to pay? It's like going to the deli & asking the cashier is this candy free

[DetSMART45]

Those example clips illustrate the problem, but try these on for size:

2010: Scuffle between operator and passenger

2013: New Detroit arrival gets attacked by operator http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/New-Detroiter-says-DDOT-driver-attacked-her-on-bus/21784972

2013: Openly smoking crack on midday bus http://www.wxyz.com/news/detroit-bus-drivers-want-frequent-passenger-attacks-to-end

Wednesday 8/26/2015: Woman gets bumped, then stabs 50-yr old to death http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/woman-dead-after-fatal-stabbing-aboard-ddot-bus-detroit-police-search-for-person-of-interest

In the last example, Route 16 Dexter bus operator jumped out of driver's window, unclear if he/she helped in the scuffle that was going on, either to detain the woman or to aid the stabbing victim.  Perp did turn herself in, and is facing life in prison.  Plus she wasn't a stranger to the criminal justice system.

 

Just a few examples of how customers view the DDOT bus system.  Operators blame the customers, yet follow no schedule.  Customers are already on edge because buses show up whenever they want to, leaving them with trips across town into the HOURS to complete.  DDOT transfers are good for 4 hours, SMART for 3, but for around 12 hours on weekdays, and all times on weekends, DDOT is the only way around within the city.  (SMART does six main thoroughfares, but not complete local service on them, during weekday AM & PM peak.  So outside of those six routes, DDOT is still the only way to get around.)  REMEMBER: This type of service has gone on for decades, and even with the city losing hundreds of thousands of residents, bus service has not changed.

 

It is a very RARE occurrence on SMART buses to have fare beating.  Operators may give the odd transfer out to someone who doesn't have a quarter, but even DDOT riders who use SMART know not to play with the operator.

[DS4Ever]

I for one think that the n19 and the n72 should have their last runs one hour much later to coordinate with the last S40 since many transfer from this route or to mentioned rout. ..lets not fforget that some of us are nocturnal peoples and 10:30pm is a great timing for the n19 and 10:20pm for the n72

[John from Flushing]

If anybody watched that news12 video of the Long Island bus riders union members walking past nice bus headquarters you will see a sign that says "mta employees entrance" this sign should be replaced with "nice bus headquarters"

[Tom Meadow]

Hey dummy that's for the lirr signal workers across the street know ur area.

Those example clips illustrate the problem, but try these on for size:

2010: Scuffle between operator and passenger

2013: New Detroit arrival gets attacked by operator http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/New-Detroiter-says-DDOT-driver-attacked-her-on-bus/21784972

2013: Openly smoking crack on midday bus http://www.wxyz.com/news/detroit-bus-drivers-want-frequent-passenger-attacks-to-end

Wednesday 8/26/2015: Woman gets bumped, then stabs 50-yr old to death http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/woman-dead-after-fatal-stabbing-aboard-ddot-bus-detroit-police-search-for-person-of-interest

In the last example, Route 16 Dexter bus operator jumped out of driver's window, unclear if he/she helped in the scuffle that was going on, either to detain the woman or to aid the stabbing victim. Perp did turn herself in, and is facing life in prison. Plus she wasn't a stranger to the criminal justice system.

 

Just a few examples of how customers view the DDOT bus system. Operators blame the customers, yet follow no schedule. Customers are already on edge because buses show up whenever they want to, leaving them with trips across town into the HOURS to complete. DDOT transfers are good for 4 hours, SMART for 3, but for around 12 hours on weekdays, and all times on weekends, DDOT is the only way around within the city. (SMART does six main thoroughfares, but not complete local service on them, during weekday AM & PM peak. So outside of those six routes, DDOT is still the only way to get around.) REMEMBER: This type of service has gone on for decades, and even with the city losing hundreds of thousands of residents, bus service has not changed.

 

It is a very RARE occurrence on SMART buses to have fare beating. Operators may give the odd transfer out to someone who doesn't have a quarter, but even DDOT riders who use SMART know not to play with the operator.

Not to offend but what does smart have to with nice bus nothing go back to Detroit where you belong

[Burrstone]

Wonder when NICE will release ridership figures and why they haven't in a while...

 

And what on earth would people be protesting about Splish Splash for?  Did someone fly off a slide?  I thought the park itself was strict with what you could do on the grounds.

 

Why would they? What does it serve them to release this data?  Are they obligated under the contract to release this data?  Can you FOIL this information?

 

NICE higher ups must have seen PinePower's videos...

 

Yea, that must be it... lmao

 

 

There is still no dispatcher for the first stop on the N20-N21 Roosevelt ave in flushing, most likely nice busiest stop.

 

What stop is that?   Usually dispatchers are at major hub's logging in many buses arriving departing not at a single stop, unless there was an incident at the stop.

 

Saw a fare beater on the N20 today at roosevelt ave. Driver said to passenger hey you, & passenger said he has no change. Driver said fare beaters are making Nice lose money. If i was the driver I would have said get off the bus i am not moving untill you pay or leave.

Those example clips illustrate the problem, but try these on for size:

2010: Scuffle between operator and passenger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcDQZcnMsps

2013: New Detroit arrival gets attacked by operator http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/New-Detroiter-says-DDOT-driver-attacked-her-on-bus/21784972

2013: Openly smoking crack on midday bus http://www.wxyz.com/news/detroit-bus-drivers-want-frequent-passenger-attacks-to-end

Wednesday 8/26/2015: Woman gets bumped, then stabs 50-yr old to death http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/woman-dead-after-fatal-stabbing-aboard-ddot-bus-detroit-police-search-for-person-of-interest

In the last example, Route 16 Dexter bus operator jumped out of driver's window, unclear if he/she helped in the scuffle that was going on, either to detain the woman or to aid the stabbing victim.  Perp did turn herself in, and is facing life in prison.  Plus she wasn't a stranger to the criminal justice system.

 

Just a few examples of how customers view the DDOT bus system.  Operators blame the customers, yet follow no schedule.  Customers are already on edge because buses show up whenever they want to, leaving them with trips across town into the HOURS to complete.  DDOT transfers are good for 4 hours, SMART for 3, but for around 12 hours on weekdays, and all times on weekends, DDOT is the only way around within the city.  (SMART does six main thoroughfares, but not complete local service on them, during weekday AM & PM peak.  So outside of those six routes, DDOT is still the only way to get around.)  REMEMBER: This type of service has gone on for decades, and even with the city losing hundreds of thousands of residents, bus service has not changed.

 

It is a very RARE occurrence on SMART buses to have fare beating.  Operators may give the odd transfer out to someone who doesn't have a quarter, but even DDOT riders who use SMART know not to play with the operator.

 

It's not worth the driver perusing it past asking once or twice because the driver may be assaulted or forced to defend him/herself.  The idea is not let a situation escalate, I remember when NICE first started an article was posted here that a Veolia Employee was fired for taking down someone with a knife.  Why?  Because that is not the drivers job, the situation could have escalated and someone could have been seriously injured or died.   If a driver peruses the fare odds are it will escalate and the driver will be assaulted or the driver will defend him/herself and be suspended for getting into a fight with a passenger.  In this day and age god forbid the driver be white and the fare beater be black or spanish.  I could just see the headlines about the racist white driver assaulting a poor passenger over a $2.75 fare.  I could also see a fare beater trying to escalate the situation  so they can get assaulted by the driver in an attempt to get a few dollars from Transdev and/or Nassau.

 

I think drivers try to get people to pay because ridership figures are being taken from the farebox and not from counters,  The less people that pay makes it look like less people ride and the drivers are afraid of having their runs cut.

 

If anybody watched that news12 video of the Long Island bus riders union members walking past nice bus headquarters you will see a sign that says "mta employees entrance" this sign should be replaced with "nice bus headquarters"

Hey dummy that's for the lirr signal workers across the street know ur area.

Not to offend but what does smart have to with nice bus nothing go back to Detroit where you belong

LMAO!!!

[FamousNYLover]

Wonder when NICE will release ridership figures and why they haven't in a while...

 

And what on earth would people be protesting about Splish Splash for?  Did someone fly off a slide?  I thought the park itself was strict with what you could do on the grounds.

 

"Why are you protesting at Splish Splash?

Splish Splash is owned by Palace Entertainment, the new owner's of the Miami Seaquarium along with endangered orca Lolita. Lolita's tank is the smallest in North America. She cannot even dive because she is 20 ft long and her tank is only 20 ft deep. She also has no shade from the sun and hasn't seen another orca since the 1980's- a very cruel fate for one of the world's most social and intelligent creatures. We are protesting at Palace Entertainment parks nationwide to urge her retirement to a seapen in her home waters where she can swim free and be reunited with her family once she is rehabilitated.

See her full retirement plan here:

http://www.orcanetwork.org/Main/index.php?categories_file=Retirement]]"

All former Palace Entertainment vistiors and Parques Reunidos vistiors are boycotting any amusement parks, water parks or family Entertainment Centers that owned by them in the flavor of freeing Lolita the Orca from 45-year prison in her tiny swim tank in hot Florida sun in Miami SeaAquarium.

 

Back to NICE Bus, I'm heading out to Vegan Long Island Meetup at Jericho Whole Food.

[DetSMART45]

Hey dummy that's for the lirr signal workers across the street know ur area.

Not to offend but what does smart have to with nice bus nothing go back to Detroit where you belong

I'm going to take the high road and not address you as I originally intended, and that was as speaking to a petulant six year old wanting an ice cream but keeps getting told no.

I've attempted to paint a picture illustrating that NICE is going down a dangerous path, even though they are a "suburban" system which on the surface (or as the county brass has attempted to convey) is supposedly "better" than the MTA.  The instances noted in my last post are connected to the farebeating discussions, as operators simply let the customers do whatever they want, and customers take advantage of a "no rules" environment.  Previous posts have noted the lack of cleanliness and bus maintenance problems with NICE, and I'm showing you what happens when that continues in the real world through examples of the Detroit system.  NICE is advertising for drivers -- not necessarily a bad thing, but in today's world with jobs lacking in general, and with union representation to boot, it's not a real positive.  Funding constraints thus far in NICE's short history could lead to a push to cut labor costs in the future (the most costly item in running ANY business) and is part of the natural progression if bus maintenance is currently being hurt, so NICE drivers could "react" similarly to the way DDOT drivers are and have been.  The deterioration that occurs will be quite evident at that point, where drivers just do what they want, and, consequently, customers do whatever they want on the buses.

Now in this picture, I'm not saying that MTA is run like SMART is.  MTA has plenty of its own problems, and if they could get the on-time performance corrected (both in buses and subways) it would go a long way to improving the perception of value by customers.  Bunching buses, sardine cans, no-shows for 30 minutes are plain inexcusable when an organization full of self-proclaimed "transportation experts" (paid quite handsomely, dontchaknow, out of the general public's pockets) are supposedly in-charge, YET corner them on these problems and they act completely baffled plus act indignant because YOU don't know what THEY do, so just shut up.  And MTA does have a pretty effective maintenance program, for their size, so that should not be an impediment to improving OTP.

 

NICE should be running like the way I illustrate how SMART does -- not just because it serves suburban areas, but because that's how the "powers that be" in the Nassau offices told everybody it would, for less than what they were paying the MTA.  But they're heading down the DDOT path, where even less customers will use them, and those that do will think it's an "anything goes" environment.  See, though, NICE is in an even worse situation, though.  While a good number of Detroiters don't have personal vehicles, most Nassau residents do.  DDOT gets away with their shoddy service because they're basically the only way to get around, and make every attempt to keep it that way.  NICE doesn't have that in their playbook, and if they keep on the path they're going, the public's anti-bus sentiments or "stigma" attached to riding the bus will only increase.  Just a guess, but most LIRR riders don't use NICE, do they?  It shouldn't be that way, though.  Think they'll be doing that with they way NICE is being run?

Edited August 31, 2015 by DetSMART45

[John from Flushing]

Nice bus should do what smart does in Detroit, put real time cameras on each bus with somebody watching it, & if they notice a fare beater call a cop & have the cop pull the bus over & give the fare beater a $100 fine. Fare beating on nice bus is getting worse, people walk on like they own the bus, if driver says something they say to driver "what" or I don't have any money or

Can I get a ride? I'm wondering do these fare beaters also fare beat on the cabs? Do they take a ride from the cab driver & say I have no money or can I have a free ride? If they do it on the bus I'm

Sure they fare beat in the cab as we'll.

[DetSMART45]

Nice bus should do what smart does in Detroit, put real time cameras on each bus with somebody watching it, & if they notice a fare beater call a cop & have the cop pull the bus over & give the fare beater a $100 fine. Fare beating on nice bus is getting worse, people walk on like they own the bus, if driver says something they say to driver "what" or I don't have any money or

Can I get a ride? I'm wondering do these fare beaters also fare beat on the cabs? Do they take a ride from the cab driver & say I have no money or can I have a free ride? If they do it on the bus I'm

Sure they fare beat in the cab as we'll.

Let me clarify on the cameras thing:

The trip I was on where my example occurred was an early morning one, and it was surprising to see it happen.  But I don't know the extent of monitoring, and I'd hedge a guess that it could have been just noticing something while scanning.  However, the cameras do record both inside and outside and if the operator presses something, I'm sure dispatch can start watching and send assistance if necessary.  (Similar to the "panic button" on MTA buses that puts the "Call 911" message on the destination signs.)

 

The reason farebeating is rare on SMART buses is because of a "reputation", if you will.  Farebeating was at the same rate before the cameras got installed as part of ARRA (Stimulus) funding which changed out the fareboxes as well.  Customers like the fact that buses come when they're supposed to, are at most 5 minutes behind at the midpoint (traditional "busy" point of a route), and they are clean/well maintained.  This reputation, also, was back before GPS and internet tracking were even thought of.

 

Best option for NICE is to nip the bad things in the bud now, make any changes necessary in funding, and move forward with a very public plan of the benefits in investing in public transport.  It'll take time, but as the old saying goes, A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.

[mac5689]

Nice bus should do what smart does in Detroit, put real time cameras on each bus with somebody watching it, & if they notice a fare beater call a cop & have the cop pull the bus over & give the fare beater a $100 fine. Fare beating on nice bus is getting worse, people walk on like they own the bus, if driver says something they say to driver "what" or I don't have any money or

Can I get a ride? I'm wondering do these fare beaters also fare beat on the cabs? Do they take a ride from the cab driver & say I have no money or can I have a free ride? If they do it on the bus I'm

Sure they fare beat in the cab as we'll.

Problem with that is Money. Money for the camrea's, instulation (on buses already in service that don't have them), and the person to man the feed. This would probably cost alot of money, money that has to come from somewhere. 

 

Second problem would be having the bus pulled over and a cop board would end up slowing down the bus and thus possibly making the bus late. I'm sure other riders won't like that. Not to mention where would the money generated from said tickets go, would it go to the County budget or does it go to the transit budget. (non bus riders will probably want the money generated to go to the county budget, not to mention non bus riders probably wouldn't like hearing that cops would be diverted from their patrols to do this.) While a good idea there could be to much opposition to certain parts that it could never get off the ground. 

[Joel Up Front]

Barring some major catastrophe, people can and WILL drive.  The buses here don't even run in a timely manner.  If you can drive, why waste an hour and a half on a bus?

[John from Flushing]

When will NICE BUS install bus rakes on the buses? It's already happening on Staten Island.

[FamousNYLover]

When will NICE BUS install bus rakes on the buses? It's already happening on Staten Island.

It's not happening on . It's pilot testing program and it's because Transportation Alternatives and bicycle advocates complainting that Verrazaro-Narrows Bridge that has no bike lane, so they putting bike racks on S53 and S93 bus route.

Not all bus companies has bike rack.

 

I'm sure it wouldn't happen on any of Buses, NICE Bus or Westchester County Bee-Line Buses.

On New Jersey Transit buses, there are no bike racks on articulated buses.

On City of Long Beach Buses, only new buses has bike rack, but not on older buses or trolley fleets.

Huntington Area Rapid Transit buses in Suffolk County don't have bike rack.

All Suffolk County Transit buses has bike racks, but all bike racks are maxium 2 bicycles per person.

 

During the 2nd day of Rate the Ride, Sylvia tried to board 9:30 S66 Riverhead, but she had more idea bike racks are popular and so she bike all the way to East Hampton Station to meet us while we rode bus to Riverhead, Oriental Point Ferry Deck, to East Hampton Station.

 

It wouldn't work on every transit agency.

 

There are no bike racks on NYC or Nassau County NICE Buses because most cyclists mostly love to bike.

 

Imigine if every transit bus company install bike racks, it would get chaos because it's 2 per person and it's first come, it's first basis.

[John from Flushing]

I am strongly in favor of the bike rakes on the buses front, next stop would be to have the bike rakes return to the Q44 bus like they had up to year 2001 I believe. Also I think they are making mistake putting rakes on S93 & S53, it should be on S79 SBS.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I am strongly in favor of the bike rakes on the buses front, next stop would be to have the bike rakes return to the Q44 bus like they had up to year 2001 I believe. Also I think they are making mistake putting rakes on S93 & S53, it should be on S79 SBS.

The Q44 never had them. Unless you're talking about the QBx1.

[FamousNYLover]

I am strongly in favor of the bike rakes on the buses front, next stop would be to have the bike rakes return to the Q44 bus like they had up to year 2001 I believe. Also I think they are making mistake putting rakes on S93 & S53, it should be on S79 SBS.

S79 SBS is Bus Rapid Transit with onboard payment on farebox.

It wouldn't work because , NICE Bus, and Bee-Line buses has too many bus stops. Most of bus stops are closer.

In NYC, there are pedestrian-bike lanes on all other bridges.

 

Under the Queens Surface Corp, Q50 formerlly QBx1 had bike rack because back then there was no bike lane on Bronx-Whitestone Bridge.

Q44 never had bike rack.

 

Bike racks cost money and you might ended up paying more fare on NICE Bus for bike racks.

Veolia Transdev don't have enough funding to put bike rack on NICE Bus.

 

Problem with bike racks, sometimes bike racks obstruct views of bus drivers.

Also putting bike racks on back of buses are not answer because bus drivers cannot see behind. Bus drivers are not allowed to get off the bus to help cyclists board the bus.

Edited September 1, 2015 by FamousNYLover

[FamousNYLover]

Bikes are not allowed inside the bus because bikes could easily split or fall down when speedy bad motorists cuts off the bus, injuring they bus riders and possibly bus drivers.

[John from Flushing]

Nice & mta should allow bikes on buses, maybe you can lift seat & tie down bike just like bus driver straps down wheelchair.

[FamousNYLover]

Nice & mta should allow bikes on buses, maybe you can lift seat & tie down bike just like bus driver straps down wheelchair.

That seats are wheelchair prioty sitting and elderly seating. Not for cyclists.

None of transit bus companies don't allow bikes onboard the bus. Bicyclists cannot be tied like wheelchair.

Imigine if cyclist board the n20 bus and uses wheelchair sitting, then somewhere along the route, there are wheelchair customers waiting for buses and cannot get on because wheelchair seatings are occupied by bikes and it's ADA lawsuit waiting to happen, so answer is NO to bikes onboard the bus.

 

All bike racks have to be front of bus drivers on outside.

 

There are several wheelchair customers ride the NICE Bus, blind riders with cane or service dog, so using wheelchair prioty seating for bicycles are not safe. Even with tied bikes, bikes could still get totalled and lawsuit waiting to happen.

Edited September 1, 2015 by FamousNYLover

[John from Flushing]

I meant to say famous is in the back of the bus, the back seats make them open up like the front wheelchair seats & let passenger attach there own bikes, problem solved, & it would cost way less than the $42,000 mta spent. Nice should really think about bike rakes, because I see many people on bike, & maybe bike passenger would like bus service in the winter or in ice & snow.

[FamousNYLover]

I meant to say famous is in the back of the bus, the back seats make them open up like the front wheelchair seats & let passenger attach there own bikes, problem solved, & it would cost way less than the $42,000 mta spent. Nice should really think about bike rakes, because I see many people on bike, & maybe bike passenger would like bus service in the winter or in ice & snow.

It still wouldn't work. Some old ex-MTA Long Island buses #1500~#1600 wheelchair seating is i back because wheelchair lift is back on ex-MTA Long Island buses.

[John from Flushing]

What is NICE BUS plans for bikes on there buses? Mta has a plan they are doing it on Staten Island a one year program.