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Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)


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Their probably going to take their time, especially since someone from NICE had said in Newsday that if they were to get the money the cut routes could be reinstated. If they went right out an took all the signs down it would show that the cuts would be permanent and the person lied. (Not to mention wasteful if they were telling the truth and reinstated the routes if they got the money)

 

What they are probably doing is waiting for like a month or two or whenever they think they are sure they won't be getting any money to reinstate them or that riders forgot what they said and most likely have found other ways of getting around, 

 

Or they could just say heck with it and just leave them up. Suffolk left a route sign up even though a route didn't serve it, not sure if it was an approved route change by the county also don't know if the sign is still up since they renovated the ambulance station the sign was on. Also Suffolk put up a bus sign a few years ago for a route that doesn't serve the stop, though again it goes towards that route change mentioned earlier. So it goes to show that route signs aren't seen as important. 

Good point ok.

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Their probably going to take their time, especially since someone from NICE had said in Newsday that if they were to get the money the cut routes could be reinstated. If they went right out an took all the signs down it would show that the cuts would be permanent and the person lied. (Not to mention wasteful if they were telling the truth and reinstated the routes if they got the money)

 

What they are probably doing is waiting for like a month or two or whenever they think they are sure they won't be getting any money to reinstate them or that riders forgot what they said and most likely have found other ways of getting around, 

 

Or they could just say heck with it and just leave them up. Suffolk left a route sign up even though a route didn't serve it, not sure if it was an approved route change by the county also don't know if the sign is still up since they renovated the ambulance station the sign was on. Also Suffolk put up a bus sign a few years ago for a route that doesn't serve the stop, though again it goes towards that route change mentioned earlier. So it goes to show that route signs aren't seen as important. 

At the hearing, Setzer said if they were to get more money it would be used for the busy routes where people get passed by full buses, etc.

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Laziness and the fact that nassau could care less.

Don't you mean COULDN'T care less?

Their probably going to take their time, especially since someone from NICE had said in Newsday that if they were to get the money the cut routes could be reinstated. If they went right out an took all the signs down it would show that the cuts would be permanent and the person lied. (Not to mention wasteful if they were telling the truth and reinstated the routes if they got the money)

 

What they are probably doing is waiting for like a month or two or whenever they think they are sure they won't be getting any money to reinstate them or that riders forgot what they said and most likely have found other ways of getting around, 

 

Or they could just say heck with it and just leave them up. Suffolk left a route sign up even though a route didn't serve it, not sure if it was an approved route change by the county also don't know if the sign is still up since they renovated the ambulance station the sign was on. Also Suffolk put up a bus sign a few years ago for a route that doesn't serve the stop, though again it goes towards that route change mentioned earlier. So it goes to show that route signs aren't seen as important. 

On Sat. morning I saw at least 3 people waiting for the N73 on Jerusalem Ave at different stops.

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When i was in Freeport i saw in a bulletin attention boarding sign of the new n19 service

 

In human written form i saw it said :

 

NO TO N19 TRUNCATION

 

i guess some users are in discomfort of the truncation of the n19 but like mac said all is timing in the future. ..first NICE must fix their budgets then after all is calm they can resuscitate some of the eliminated routes...in these would be resucitastes the n2/8 but in a whole new form much like the MTA q38 is ...the n73 going straightdown jJerusalem. With no cornflower loop...the n81 would be revived and last but not least the n19 although their would be alternative routes that is n19 service past sunrise mall would end after 7pm lets be honest the n19 can't make the needing of service past sunrise its ridership is low even though that day i dig farewell to the n19 Babylon- Freeport route about 3 passengers (incl. Myself) got onboard

 

I can say the n46 can be revived as well as the n17 but rush hours only

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At the hearing, Setzer said if they were to get more money it would be used for the busy routes where people get passed by full buses, etc.

While that's good, there also needs to be some sort of transportation link for north-south travel. I would reinstate the n73 and n81. These buses would interline with each other, using 3 buses at a time. For example, lets say an n81 originates at Sunrise Mall at :55, it would arrive at :37 the following hour at Hicksville, then leave as an n73 to Wantagh at :45, and arrive Wantagh terminal at :15. It departs at :25 from Wantagh, arrives Hicksville at :55, leave as an n81 to Sunrise Mall at :05 the following hour, arrive Sunrise at :47, and the cycle repeats. On weekends, you could have two buses on a 90 minute headway on both lines. Not all service needs to be fully restored, but something that is feasible for coverage.

 

Also, I would look into bringing back the n2/n8. Service would be different, since the n2 would now operate between Green Acres Mall and Hempstead Transit Center weekdays and Saturdays (eliminate that terminal in the middle of nowhere in Floral Park). This would help balance loads on the n6 within Nassau County, and brings back an old service and makes it more useful. The n8 would only run rush hours, with two-round trips in each direction. However, the service span would be different to the former n2.

 

 

 

 

My distrubution of n2/n8 service:

 

n2

From Hempstead:

Weekdays: 6:30 AM*, 7:30 AM, 8:30 AM, 10:00 AM, 11:30 AM, 1:00 PM, 2:30 PM, 3:30 PM, 4:30 PM, 5:30 PM, 6:30 PM, 8:00 PM

Saturdays: 9:00 AM, 10:30 AM, 12:00 PM, 1:30 PM, 3:00 PM, 4:30 PM, 6:00 PM, 7:30 PM

 

 

From Green Acres Mall:

Weekdays: 7:15 AM, 8:15 AM, 9:15 AM, 10:45 AM, 12:15 PM, 1:45 PM, 3:15 PM, 4:15 PM, 5:15 PM, 6:15 PM, 7:15 PM, 8:45 PM*

Saturdays: 9:45 AM, 11:15 AM, 12:45 PM, 2:15 PM, 3:45 PM, 5:15 PM, 6:45 PM, 8:15 PM

 

n8

From Hempstead: 

Weekdays:  6:00 AM*, 7:00* AM, 4:00 PM, 5:00 PM 

 

From Green Acres Mall:

Weekdays:  6:42 AM, 7:42 AM, 4:42 PM, 5:42 PM

 

* Service Originate/Terminates at 700 Commercial Avenue, running via Stewart Avenue

 

This is still a reduction of 12 minutes in overall weekday revenue time over the former n2/8 loop setup, and the DH to/from MF from Hempstead is much closer than to RVC on weekdays. It retains most of the span, with the last bus at 8:00 PM instead of 9:15/10:15 from Floral Park, which I think is too much for a route with that much ridership.

 

For Saturday service, there is about a 28 minute decrease in revenue time over the former n2/n8 loop scenario, and n2 riders on that segment get slightly more frequent service. DH to/from MF is also reduced compared to the old n2/8 DH to MF on the weekends. 

 

From Hempstead Transit Center, the n2/8 would be scheduled to leave before the n6 local. 

 

 

 

 

We could continue this in the proposals thread if you want, since this is more of a proposal now, but that's how I would make a compromise so that service is increase on busier lines, while bringing back some service, so that its a win-win for riders on both the discontinued and the heavily-utilized routes.

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I still see the signs for the n8 and n2 up in Elmont/N.Valley Stream even though the route was eliminated.

n19 Bus Stop sign is still up at Babylon Station and Deer Park Av.

n46/50 Bus Stop sign is still up at n45 segment.

 

NICE is having a funding/budget problem, don't expect them to rush out to take down signs

 

 

When the n2/8 was rerouted in December 2012 to Hempstead Turnpike/Franklin Avenue, signs weren't taken down at all. If they didn't take it down for the (rather short-lived) service period, then it'll probably be up for quite a while. Same goes for the other routes.

 

 

When i was in Freeport i saw in a bulletin attention boarding sign of the new n19 service

 

In human written form i saw it said :

 

NO TO N19 TRUNCATION

 

i guess some users are in discomfort of the truncation of the n19 but like mac said all is timing in the future. ..first NICE must fix their budgets then after all is calm they can resuscitate some of the eliminated routes...in these would be resucitastes the n2/8 but in a whole new form much like the MTA q38 is ...the n73 going straightdown jJerusalem. With no cornflower loop...the n81 would be revived and last but not least the n19 although their would be alternative routes that is n19 service past sunrise mall would end after 7pm lets be honest the n19 can't make the needing of service past sunrise its ridership is low even though that day i dig farewell to the n19 Babylon- Freeport route about 3 passengers (incl. Myself) got onboard

 

I can say the n46 can be revived as well as the n17 but rush hours only

I'm sure during LIRR Storm Suspension on Sun, people properly got stranded in Babylon with no train or bus service.

There's one good news for n20 bus riders. Weekday, 20:15 n20H Hicksville to Great Neck does 21:20 n20G Flushing. People got happy.

Edited by FamousNYLover
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As long as the two transfers apply ...im down with the n20G and n20H after all if a 9:07pmdeparts Hicksville it should arrive Great Neck at approximately 9:55pm thus transferring to the last n20G at 10:pm arriving Flushing at 10:25pm just in time for the last transfer to the (7) train or any connecting buses

 

Also now you get how bad is to feel to be stranded. ..i feel them

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While that's good, there also needs to be some sort of transportation link for north-south travel. I would reinstate the n73 and n81. These buses would interline with each other, using 3 buses at a time. For example, lets say an n81 originates at Sunrise Mall at :55, it would arrive at :37 the following hour at Hicksville, then leave as an n73 to Wantagh at :45, and arrive Wantagh terminal at :15. It departs at :25 from Wantagh, arrives Hicksville at :55, leave as an n81 to Sunrise Mall at :05 the following hour, arrive Sunrise at :47, and the cycle repeats. On weekends, you could have two buses on a 90 minute headway on both lines. Not all service needs to be fully restored, but something that is feasible for coverage.

 

You could just dedicate one bus to the n73, and have two buses on the n81, but have it run up Pinepower's suggested route (take South Oyster Bay to Woodbury Road to get to Hicksville)

 

Also, I would look into bringing back the n2/n8. Service would be different, since the n2 would now operate between Green Acres Mall and Hempstead Transit Center weekdays and Saturdays (eliminate that terminal in the middle of nowhere in Floral Park). This would help balance loads on the n6 within Nassau County, and brings back an old service and makes it more useful. The n8 would only run rush hours, with two-round trips in each direction. However, the service span would be different to the former n2.

 

 

The Floral Park terminal wasn't really in the middle of nowhere. There is a fairly busy commercial area to the north, stretching down to the railroad tracks. Not saying it was the best terminal, but there was some logic behind it. 

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Why not have N73 serve the colleges to add ridership?

Because PinePowerLI always knows what he's talking about. Didn't you know that? :rolleyes:

 

At this point, bringing back the n73/74 or n80/81 will not restore the ridership that was once there. Hell, you could put a coach bus on the route and it still won't attract constant ridership. Better off paying for better duct tape for NICE buses.

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Because PinePowerLI always knows what he's talking about. Didn't you know that? :rolleyes:

 

At this point, bringing back the n73/74 or n80/81 will not restore the ridership that was once there. Hell, you could put a coach bus on the route and it still won't attract constant ridership. Better off paying for better duct tape for NICE buses.

LOL

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You could just dedicate one bus to the n73, and have two buses on the n81, but have it run up Pinepower's suggested route (take South Oyster Bay to Woodbury Road to get to Hicksville)

 

 

 

The Floral Park terminal wasn't really in the middle of nowhere. There is a fairly busy commercial area to the north, stretching down to the railroad tracks. Not saying it was the best terminal, but there was some logic behind it. 

The better option would have been extending the N2 up Tulip Ave to the Floral Pk LIRR station. They tried to do this many years ago,but unfortunately Floral Pk nimbyism prevented it. Even routing it up Covert Ave to at least Jericho Tpk would have been another option.

Why not have N73 serve the colleges to add ridership?

Serving the Broadway Mall, like it once did would have helped.

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You could just dedicate one bus to the n73, and have two buses on the n81, but have it run up Pinepower's suggested route (take South Oyster Bay to Woodbury Road to get to Hicksville)

 

 

 

The Floral Park terminal wasn't really in the middle of nowhere. There is a fairly busy commercial area to the north, stretching down to the railroad tracks. Not saying it was the best terminal, but there was some logic behind it. 

Yeah, I could agree to have it use Woodbury Road. The 1.5 bus per route still lets it have 60 minute headways on weekdays. On Saturdays, you could have the setup mentioned (the n73 headway would be every 70 minutes instead of 60 minutes, since 3 minutes of recovery seems too little. Additionally, you could interline the n81 and the n79 on Saturdays (I believe you'll need three buses for both routes). 

 

As for the Floral Park terminal, while it's true that there's a commercial strip there, nobody still uses the bus there. Routing it on Hempstead Turnpike while decreasing the span and increasing the headway off peak would help the n6 while not adding buses at all to the n6. The n2/8 would give the n6 2 extra buses per hour rush hours, and it needs all the help it can get. The n1 supplements it to Jamaica, while there's nothing to/from Hempstead. With the n2/8 running to/from Hempstead, there would be more buses to better distribute loads, while there's less of a chance to get flagged. For some depatures, I would move it up a tad bit (since the ones I posted were just an outline), in order to get people on that bus, over the n6. The n6 wouldn't be boggled down as much, and by the time it reaches Meacham, there would be slightly more space on the bus. I've also mentioned that since I have seen people before connecting to/from the n2/8 at Meacham Avenue, on multiple occasions. 

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Yeah, I could agree to have it use Woodbury Road. The 1.5 bus per route still lets it have 60 minute headways on weekdays. On Saturdays, you could have the setup mentioned (the n73 headway would be every 70 minutes instead of 60 minutes, since 3 minutes of recovery seems too little. Additionally, you could interline the n81 and the n79 on Saturdays (I believe you'll need three buses for both routes). 

 

The minimum recovery time in NYC (where the routes are typically much busier and delay-prone) is either 3 minutes, or 10% of the running time, whichever is greater. 27 minutes runtime * 0.10 = 2.7 minutes, which rounds to 3. There's no point in introducing complexity to the schedule for no reason. The B/O gets the bare minimum recovery time, but has a fairly easy run, with low ridership and little traffic. It is what it is.
 
And yes, I agree with interlining the n79 & n81 on Saturday.

 

As for the Floral Park terminal, while it's true that there's a commercial strip there, nobody still uses the bus there. Routing it on Hempstead Turnpike while decreasing the span and increasing the headway off peak would help the n6 while not adding buses at all to the n6. The n2/8 would give the n6 2 extra buses per hour rush hours, and it needs all the help it can get. The n1 supplements it to Jamaica, while there's nothing to/from Hempstead. With the n2/8 running to/from Hempstead, there would be more buses to better distribute loads, while there's less of a chance to get flagged. For some depatures, I would move it up a tad bit (since the ones I posted were just an outline), in order to get people on that bus, over the n6. The n6 wouldn't be boggled down as much, and by the time it reaches Meacham, there would be slightly more space on the bus. I've also mentioned that since I have seen people before connecting to/from the n2/8 at Meacham Avenue, on multiple occasions. 

 

Your own trip had 2 people using the bus there. That's not "nobody" especially when you consider it's only a few blocks down to Hempstead Turnpike.

 

Do I agree that sending it to Hempstead instead of Floral Park would bring additional ridership? Yes.

 

Do I agree that your proposed n2/8 is better structure-wise than the old n2/8? Yes. It would supplement the n6 and probably increase ridership slightly along the Meacham Avenue portion.

 

Do I think that it was unreasonable to provide service to that part of Floral Park? No. Ridership was light, but the trips didn't literally "carry air" (as QJT would put it, meaning carry nobody). There was a commercial district there, that was relatively far from the n6, n25, and Stewart Manor LIRR stations, and so it got a few riders here and there. If we were talking about a whole route stretching halfway across Nassau County (referring to the south-of-Hicksville routes) got that level of ridership on the entire run, it would be a different story, but it was a handful of riders for a couple of minutes of runtime.

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I don't know how legit some of this is, so I'm posting it here. According to PinePower's latest rant video, the n88 may be cut this year due to lack of funds, and someone said there may still be a budget gap of 3.5 million dollars. There's also comments on that video by someone who claims to be one of those NICE Ambassadors (apparently there's 10 of them) at NCC that said there's a rumor that NICE just got $7 million from New York State. He also says there has been a push by the Ambassadors to try and reinstate the n51 because 12 employees at NCC take that bus.

 

If that's true, what a waste of money.

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Yeah, I could agree to have it use Woodbury Road. The 1.5 bus per route still lets it have 60 minute headways on weekdays. On Saturdays, you could have the setup mentioned (the n73 headway would be every 70 minutes instead of 60 minutes, since 3 minutes of recovery seems too little. Additionally, you could interline the n81 and the n79 on Saturdays (I believe you'll need three buses for both routes). 

 

As for the Floral Park terminal, while it's true that there's a commercial strip there, nobody still uses the bus there. Routing it on Hempstead Turnpike while decreasing the span and increasing the headway off peak would help the n6 while not adding buses at all to the n6. The n2/8 would give the n6 2 extra buses per hour rush hours, and it needs all the help it can get. The n1 supplements it to Jamaica, while there's nothing to/from Hempstead. With the n2/8 running to/from Hempstead, there would be more buses to better distribute loads, while there's less of a chance to get flagged. For some depatures, I would move it up a tad bit (since the ones I posted were just an outline), in order to get people on that bus, over the n6. The n6 wouldn't be boggled down as much, and by the time it reaches Meacham, there would be slightly more space on the bus. I've also mentioned that since I have seen people before connecting to/from the n2/8 at Meacham Avenue, on multiple occasions. 

At one time the N3(now gone) ran bet. Green Acres & Hempstead. When the N8 was started,it was originally supposed to go to Hempstead,but due to some internal work rule involving the full-time & LABO drivers,it never happened.It would have definitely boosted ridership & helped out the N6.

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At one time the N3(now gone) ran bet. Green Acres & Hempstead. When the N8 was started,it was originally supposed to go to Hempstead,but due to some internal work rule involving the full-time & LABO drivers,it never happened.It would have definitely boosted ridership & helped out the N6.

 

I thought the N3 ran from Green Acres to Jamaica, via Franklin.

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It only ran to Jamaica during the rush.  In the Bee Line days, the N1-4 and 6 ran to 165th Street but the 1-3 were cut to run to Jamaica only during the rush, and when Jamaica Center opened, the 4 was rerouted there.

How relieving it must have been for people who lived further down Hempstead Turnpike to see the N2 and 3 after countless flagging by the 6.

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The n88 is. Like the s47 or the s94...its ridership is very poorly but being bus lines that serve a summer vacation resort the funding comes from NYS as the n88, s47 and s94 serve Jones Beach, Robert Moses and Montauk Point Respectively

 

To say much out of the three the s94 is the very least used...when i went to Montauk Point last September i was the ONLY passengers onboard the bus route roundtrip. ..that is i was the only one to solitate a transfer from the 10c (as there aren't any more SCT routes east of East Hampton) and the driverssaid. "Lighthouse"

 

To say much the s94 might die soon but as it uses only one bus unit and belonging to a rich depot (Hampton Jitney) i won't see the s94 die so soon although it should terminate at the RR station and not the gazebo. .but if is as it is then a tourist must dismount at East Hampton and take the 10c and then transfer at ease to the s94 paying $2.50

 

Back to NICE. ..the n88 if people don't do anything about it (like for instance disregard taking thy cars) it can de deregistered. ..and unlike the s94 the n88 dosent have a rich depot

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In the evening when Soutbound N1's are coming from Jamaica, where do the northbound N1's deadhead to after leaving the terminal at Hempstead Turnpike?

 

I don't know, I've always assumed that they go to the depot, or to Green Acres. I still wish the n1 was full time to Jamaica, so that it can help out the n6.

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The n88 is. Like the s47 or the s94...its ridership is very poorly but being bus lines that serve a summer vacation resort the funding comes from NYS as the n88, s47 and s94 serve Jones Beach, Robert Moses and Montauk Point Respectively

 

Poorly!?

 

n88 buses are often PACKED, to the point where they don't have enough buses to transport the amount of people riding (and that can be contributed to the lack of maintenance). For the amount of runs it has, the n88 does extremely well in terms of ridership. BTW, all bus service is somehow funded by the state, and by the respective county itself. Serving a state park has nothing to due with how a route gets funded. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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Poorly!?

 

n88 buses are often PACKED, to the point where they don't have enough buses to transport the amount of people riding (and that can be contributed to the lack of maintenance). For the amount of runs it has, the n88 does extremely well in terms of ridership. BTW, all bus service is somehow funded by the state, and by the respective county itself. Serving a state park has nothing to due with how a route gets funded. 

 

The n88 was the most efficient line in the system back when LIB ran it. It actually turned an operating profit. Eliminating that route would be a terrible decision.

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