Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[IAlam]

NICE 1812 accident on Merrick and 168th. I see no Visible Damage to the bus. But, the bus is essentially blocking all west bound lanes on Merrick and causing a traffic nightmare.

[NY1635]

Summer Service for the n88 will be hourly this year. I'm guessing that they will be using the articulated buses to handle the large crowds coming off the Freeport LIRR station.

http://www.nicebus.com/Maps-Schedules/Jones-Beach-Summer-Service.aspx

[Ty24]

Nice Bus 17 ?? now sports a MetroPCS full wrap.  Saw it Friday deadheading to the depot.

[Joel Up Front]

Those look nice and if you look at the back, the old font number still shows.

[NY1635]

NICE just introduced their new LINK service for the Bellmore, East Meadow, and Merrick area.

http://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Safety-and-Security-(1).aspx

[Joel Up Front]

Any horror stories about A/C not working or it being "too cold" inside the bus so passengers open the windows?

[N6 Limited]

2 hours ago, Joel Up Front said:

Any horror stories about A/C not working or it being "too cold" inside the bus so passengers open the windows?

A couple of weeks ago, I got on a n6 to Jamaica, there was no A/C but neither were any of the windows open! 😩

[Joel Up Front]

Was that an NG, 3G, or an XD40?

[N6 Limited]

35 minutes ago, Joel Up Front said:

Was that an NG, 3G, or an XD40?

Not sure actually, maybe a NG?

[NY1635]

A NICE Bus got into a nasty accident with an SUV on Woodfield Road in West Hempstead yesterday. 

https://patch.com/new-york/malverne-lynbrook/suv-collides-nice-bus-injuring-several-people

Edited July 10, 2018 by NY1635

[Joel Up Front]

That looks like it's by the Western Beef.  It doesn't help that Eagle Avenue is right there - that left from Eagle to Woodfield isn't easy to make with all the traffic coming up the other side.  When it gets congested, people like to use the suicide lane in front of the Western Beef to get around traffic.  I don't doubt that the SUV tried something like that, but there are no other photos to go by other than firstonscene's only photo.

[NY1635]

NICE updated their website and released a plan for the future to go with it. They want to redevelop the Hempstead Transit Center, add more express service, and offer direct service into Manhattan.

https://www.nicebus.com/About-NICE/Transit-Development-Plan

[GojiMet86]

Express service into Manhattan? Now that's interesting. Maybe they'll buy coach buses, or maybe go with a contractor? 

[NY1635]

5 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

Express service into Manhattan? Now that's interesting. Maybe they'll buy coach buses, or maybe go with a contractor? 

I can only guess that NICE gained a confidence boost from working with County Executive Laura Curran and her Deputy Helena Williams to come up with a vision for transportation in Nassau County. A lot of it hinges on the downtown revitalization project going on in Hicksville, that new Islanders Stadium being built at Belmont Park near the LIRR station, and the County doing something with the area around the Coliseum actually coming to fruition.  They most likely plan to buy coach buses for their proposed service to Grand Central and Wall Street.

[GojiMet86]

44 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

I can only guess that NICE gained a confidence boost from working with County Executive Laura Curran and her Deputy Helena Williams to come up with a vision for transportation in Nassau County. A lot of it hinges on the downtown revitalization project going on in Hicksville, that new Islanders Stadium being built at Belmont Park near the LIRR station, and the County doing something with the area around the Coliseum actually coming to fruition.  They most likely plan to buy coach buses for their proposed service to Grand Central and Wall Street.

Maybe they can start off with some contract will Hampton Jitney to test feasibility? Or maybe Transdev will grab some from its bus pool from somewhere else.

 

 

Link to the full PDF:

https://www.nicebus.com/NICE/media/assets/Let-s-Go-V2-Final-July-2018-(002).pdf

 

Quote

Additional Express Service

Along with frequency, fast travel times are essential. The need for faster, direct bus service continues to grow. As Nassau County adds jobs, more residents will look for ways to commute as efficiently as possible. Express service would provide faster trips between transit centers, employment hubs, colleges, hospitals, shopping, and entertainment centers. By limiting the number of stops and leveraging technology such as signal prioritization, express buses can reduce trip times by up to 20%. Quicker travel alternatives will help Nassau County to continue to move forward. While there is still a great need for local service, express service provides a faster and smoother trip for customers making longer trips. Express service would run every 5 – 10 minutes during peak periods and every 15- 20 minutes during off-peak times. Currently, only the N6 & N4 feature express service. NICE would hope to add new express service on to the N16, N22, N20 & N24. NICE would also propose to add new express service on Saturday and Sunday

 

Shown on the proposed map:

n4X: Freeport-Jamaica

n6X: Hempstead-Jamaica

n20X: Hicksville-Flushing

n22X: Hicksville-Jamaica

n24X: Hicksville-Jamaica

(Didn't they have a n22X?)

 

Quote

 

Manhattan Direct Express (MDX)

Nassau is the only Metro area bus system that does not directly serve Manhattan. During the time of increased reliability issues with LIRR and additional auto traffic heading into the city, NICE would support commuters with high-speed, direct service to midtown, near Grand Central Terminal. A train trip from Nassau County to downtown Manhattan means transferring at Penn Station to one or more subway lines. NICE would hope to provide direct service to downtown near Wall Street sometime in the future. Manhattan Direct would use coach service - a different kind of bus, unlike other traditional intra-county services. Trips would start at strategically-placed park & ride lots in Levittown, Hicksville, and Mineola. After making a few more local stops, buses could use the Long Island Expressway HOV lane to Manhattan. A premium fare would be charged – above traditional bus fare but below train fare. Manhattan Direct Service would be fed by local bus routes and community shuttles. Coaches would have padded seats, Wi-Fi, & charging stations. Seats can be reserved via a smartphone app.

 

 

Shown on the proposed map:

MDX: Hicksville, Roslyn & Great Neck to Grand Central and Wall Street

MDX: Levittown to Grand Central and Wall Street

MDX: Mineola to Grand Central and Wall Street

MDX: Belmont to Grand Central and Wall Street

[Axis]

Looking at that PDF, the following come to mind:

-Seeing an unsplit scope of service return to the n20 line is definitely something I thought I could only dream of. I guess the question that remains is, "Will they recombine the n20G/H back into one big n20 alongside having the n20L n20X? Or will the n20X be the only variant with one-seat service between all points west of Great Neck, and all points east of Great Neck?"

-From the looks of the Weekend Service Network page, they seem to want to extend the n43 beyond Roosevelt Field, into Mineola. Possible introduction of midday & weekend service on the n26? Restoration of weekend service on the n27 & n70 (you're fooling nobody, Mr. Short Turn n72).

-Judging by the Evening/Late Night Network page, the next candidates for overnight service will probably the n22/24, and a (possibly?) extended n43.

- *sees New Express Network map* So Nassau Coliseum, Roosevelt Field, and Mineola, huh? One thing I can predict out of this is possibly a new express route consisting of a hybrid of the n22/24 & n43...

-Alright, let's take a look at Community & Flexi Shuttle Proposals. Geez, these are giving off some interesting vibes. Last time Oyster Bay had any NICE bus service was the N67, which was goodness knows how long ago. I wonder if this Oyster Bay to Hicksville idea could possibly that shopping center (near Hicksville) that used to be covered by the N94. Port Washington Shuttle, that would be the N92. Nassau Hub Shuttle, long time no see N93. Mind you, these were routes that died long before MSBA/LIB became NICE, so the thought of even these coming back in some form is beyond bizarre.

 

After all we've witnessed happened with NICE over the past several years, this is most promising thing to have come to light in a long time. Let's see how this all unfolds in the future.

[N6 Limited]

Has anyone noticed their updated website?

 

Interesting. Have they started these community Meetings? I haven't head of any.

Did they review this PDF?

Current Frequency Map shows N43, but it's not listed on the left.

New Frequent Service Network Map

n1 Hewlett - Elmont. Map shows Hewlett - Jamaica.

Shows, N25, N15, but they're not listed on the Left.

 

Evening & Latenight Network

Shows N25 on the map, lists N26 on the left.

Shows 15, not listed

Shows N31N32, not listed

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by N6 Limited

[67thAve]

The PDF file is littered with typographical and geographic errors (East Rockaway instead of Far Rockaway, for instance, is the terminal of the n31/32). But that's not the main point: I feel this plan is too ambitious.

Frequent service:

This category seems to be loosely defined, even in the current tense, as the n48/49 are listed, when they have a midday frequency of only 30-40 minutes combined, while the n25, which is more frequent mid-day and during peak hours, is not listed or shown. Regardless, I am going to infer the that a "frequent network" likely means service at least every 15 minutes Monday-Friday. I certainly don't think the n26 could sustain such frequencies, and it doesn't even have service outside of peak hours as of now. Other routes, such as the n1 and n25, as well as the n43 when NCC is not in session, possibly could sustain 20-minute headways, but I don't think there's enough ridership on these routes for service every 15 minutes. Other routes, such as the n22, n24, and n48/49, likely could sustain frequent headways through part of the route, but beyond, for instance, NUMC on the n48/49, I don't think the route could sustain anything more frequent than every 30 minutes.

Express service:

Now this makes sense in terms of the routes chosen for expansion. Many of them are long, and have heavy peak traffic flows going to/from Queens. However, I don't think that any of them besides the n4 and n6 could sustain off-peak service, and only the n6 could likely sustain weekend service.

Direct service to Manhattan:

Risky, but not a bad idea. Areas like Levittown, which have little in the way of train service, really benefit from this. I'd also add services from locations along the Seaford-Oyster Bay Expressway, and perhaps open a park-and-ride or two. But even with the love/hate relationship Long Islanders have towards the LIRR, the bus still has a high risk of getting stuck in traffic in Queens, and unlike buses coming in from New Jersey, there is no gigantic bus station to feed the routes into, meaning that they have to navigate Midtown traffic. Still, I could see some people using these services, particularly heading to jobs located closer to the Queens-Midtown Tunnel.

Evening and late night service:

I see little problem here, except for the n43 having 24/7 service. The n26 could sustain perhaps one or two late night trips, provided they are timed for shift changes (if those exist) at the hospital on Community Drive.

Weekend service:

I see no problems... wait, where's the n15? How about the n31/32? Except for the mapping and typographical errors here, not bad.

New Hempstead and NCC bus stations:

In the case of the both, I agree. Hempstead's bus station is probably one of the worst I've ever used (terribly unclean, lots of people loitering, and often a lack of security), and could certainly use a new layout to handle the artics on the n6. NCC certainly has the passenger numbers to handle a bus station, and would also help to fix the spaghetti web of routes on campus - provided they eliminate a couple of current stops to speed up travel.

"Smart stops":

Not a fan. NICE is still on shaky ground financially (in my view), and things like these have high chances of being vandalized. Rather, simply improve current stops, with more benches, more shelters, and perhaps Guide-a-Ride-esque timetables at each location. If those are vandalized, it would cost a hell of a lot less to fix.

County-wide Able-Ride:

It's needed, but per passenger, it certainly costs a lot. Still, in my view, good thinking.

"Flexi-zones/community shuttles":

It's a mixed bag here. A few of the zones make sense (such as the train shuttle to Great Neck - would this possibly replace the n57?), but a few would be better off returning as fixed routes (such as the Elmont Flexi), others serve areas with relatively dense bus service and therefore there is little need (such as the Nassau Hub zones), and others serve locations that simply would never get enough ridership (for instance, West Hempstead station, with its uncrowded trains and infrequent departures, could not sustain such a service).

Signal priority/BRT:

Could make sense on the n6? Possibly. Other routes? Not so much. Even with the n6, I feel that mid-day and weekend express service would be enough.

Overall impression:

Very ambitious, but is there ridership? More importantly, is there funding? About a year ago, many of us here likely would have expected that NICE would consist of perhaps a few routes running in/out of Queens within five or so years. Certainly things have improved since then, but there's still a backlog of service that needs to be reintroduced, buses needing to be replaced and maintained in better shape, and Mitchell Field can't squeeze in any more buses.

The idea for express service to Manhattan, likely the best part of this plan, very much resembles Transdev's commercial gamble in the UK with its CityZap services between Leeds and York, as well as between Leeds and Manchester. CityZap relies on a model where higher-quality buses compete with the train with lower prices, but in return, you sacrifice speed. Leeds/York has been successful so far, but there are signs that ridership is on the decline. The Leeds/Manchester service is shutting down this month after about a year of operations, despite high hopes and large amounts of publicity.

Transdev is aiming way too high. The system simply has not reached a standard where many, if not most, of these elements can be put into place without significantly increasing costs - something that the county can't afford to do.

Edited July 19, 2018 by 67thAve

[IAlam]

So I’ve noticed that some n20G OVII are displaying “Flushing Main St Station” instead of “Flushing”. I wonder isn’t this was done to match MTA buses. 

[GojiMet86]

Orion V CNG #1699 was on the n4 earlier today.

[NY1635]

NICE started their new Uber Service in the Bellmore, East Meadow, and Merrick area this week.

http://longisland.news12.com/story/38742592/nice-unveils-on-demand-bus-service-through-mobile-app

[FamousNYLover]

NICE Link should have been expanded to Jones Beach since they're near these surrendering area and taxis cost about $16-$20.

[NY1635]

On 7/28/2018 at 11:10 AM, FamousNYLover said:

NICE Link should have been expanded to Jones Beach since they're near these surrendering area and taxis cost about $16-$20.

The NICE Link is mostly for the areas of Bellmore, Merrick and East Meadow that lost the n45, n46, n50 and n51.

[Mtatransit]

On 7/28/2018 at 11:10 AM, FamousNYLover said:

NICE Link should have been expanded to Jones Beach since they're near these surrendering area and taxis cost about $16-$20.

There is too many people in Jones Beach going to the nearest LIRR station (Freeport) for this to work, a fixed bus route will be much more efficient in this case

Edited July 31, 2018 by Mtatransit

[Axis]

In such a scenario, a possible n73/87 hybrid wouldn't be out of the question...plus, NICE Link doesn't seem to cover what the n73/74 used to cover before their elimination.