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Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

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2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I was reading the NICE bus wiki and I saw that several routes were discontinued between 2016-2017. Were these low ridership routes? Were they merged into other routes? 

It was a mix of low ridership, mismanagement, and budget shortfalls.

N2/N8 Floral Park Loops

  • Both eliminated due to low ridership 
  • N2 eventually brought back as the Elmont Flexi (Weekday rush hours only instead of Weekdays and Saturdays only)

N14 Rockville Centre Loop

  • Elminated due to low ridership
  • Brought back as Rockville Centre Community Shuttle at same frequency with minibuses
  • Ridership was lower than before and service was every 20 min b/c of the LIRR, too frequent based on ridership
  • Eliminated again

N17 Hempstead-Rockville Centre

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Brought back as Mercy Medical Community Shuttle, runs every 40-45 min, rush hours only, compared to previous weekdays only service every 50-180 minutes

N22A Roosevelt Field-Jamaica

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Most of route duplicated by N22 and N27

N36 Freeport-Lynbrook

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Alternative is the N4

N41 Mineola-Freeport

  • Merged into N40; destination now says n40/41
  • Replaced by rerouted N43

N45 Roosevelt Field-Bellmore

  • Eliminated due to low ridership

N46 Hempstead-Bellmore

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Alternative was N47 

N47 Hempstead-North Bellmore Loop

  • Eliminated due to low ridership

N48 Jericho Quad Shuttle 

  • Eliminated due to low ridership

N50 Hicksville-Bellmore

  • Eliminated due to low ridership 

N51 Roosevelt Field-Merrick

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Brough back during weekday middays only every 90 minutes
  • Eliminated again

N62 South Freeport Loop

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Brought back as Freeport Community Shuttle, ran every 30 minutes compared to previous 60 minutes, too frequent for returning ridership levels
  • Eliminated again 

N72 Hempstead-Babylon

  • Service east of Route 110 in Suffolk County eliminated, NICE is responsible for Nassau
  • Route number still used for N70 short turns, route is not different than the N70 from Hempstead to Rout 110

N73/N74 Hicksville-Wantagh

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • N73 brought back as Hicksville Wantagh Community Shuttle, ran every 30 minutes during rush hours compared to every 80 min previously (40 min combined N73 and N74), too frequent based on returning ridership
  • Eliminated again

N80/N81 Hicksville-Sunrise Mall

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Both brought back with same schedule
  • Eliminated again due to low ridership
  • N80 brought back as Hicksville-Sunrise Mall Community Shuttle every 60 minutes, rush hours only
  • Sunrise Mall Community Shuttle had greatly reduced running time compared to previous N80, buses couldn’t keep schedule
  • Shuttle replaced by reinstated N80 with 80 min headway’s and original runtime in order to only use 1 bus

Timeline:

  • January 17th, 2016: N2, N8, N14, N17, N20L, N46, N50, N51, N62, N73, N74, N80, N81 eliminated
  • June 26th, 2016: N14, N17, N80, N81 brought back
  • September 6th, 2016: N2, N51, N62, N73 brought back
  • April 9th, 2017: N14, N22A, N36, N45, N47, N51, N62, N72, N73, N81 eliminated; N19 and N57 saved from eliminated by last minute funding; N19, N21, N27, N33, N70, N71, N72 saw great reductions in service hours
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32 minutes ago, jaf0519 said:

It was a mix of low ridership, mismanagement, and budget shortfalls.

N2/N8 Floral Park Loops

  • Both eliminated due to low ridership 
  • N2 eventually brought back as the Elmont Flexi (Weekday rush hours only instead of Weekdays and Saturdays only)

N14 Rockville Centre Loop

  • Elminated due to low ridership
  • Brought back as Rockville Centre Community Shuttle at same frequency with minibuses
  • Ridership was lower than before and service was every 20 min b/c of the LIRR, too frequent based on ridership
  • Eliminated again

N17 Hempstead-Rockville Centre

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Brought back as Mercy Medical Community Shuttle, runs every 40-45 min, rush hours only, compared to previous weekdays only service every 50-180 minutes

N22A Roosevelt Field-Jamaica

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Most of route duplicated by N22 and N27

N36 Freeport-Lynbrook

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Alternative is the N4

N41 Mineola-Freeport

  • Merged into N40; destination now says n40/41
  • Replaced by rerouted N43

N45 Roosevelt Field-Bellmore

  • Eliminated due to low ridership

N46 Hempstead-Bellmore

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Alternative was N47 

N47 Hempstead-North Bellmore Loop

  • Eliminated due to low ridership

N48 Jericho Quad Shuttle 

  • Eliminated due to low ridership

N50 Hicksville-Bellmore

  • Eliminated due to low ridership 

N51 Roosevelt Field-Merrick

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Brough back during weekday middays only every 90 minutes
  • Eliminated again

N62 South Freeport Loop

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Brought back as Freeport Community Shuttle, ran every 30 minutes compared to previous 60 minutes, too frequent for returning ridership levels
  • Eliminated again 

N72 Hempstead-Babylon

  • Service east of Route 110 in Suffolk County eliminated, NICE is responsible for Nassau
  • Route number still used for N70 short turns, route is not different than the N70 from Hempstead to Rout 110

N73/N74 Hicksville-Wantagh

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • N73 brought back as Hicksville Wantagh Community Shuttle, ran every 30 minutes during rush hours compared to every 80 min previously (40 min combined N73 and N74), too frequent based on returning ridership
  • Eliminated again

N80/N81 Hicksville-Sunrise Mall

  • Eliminated due to low ridership
  • Both brought back with same schedule
  • Eliminated again due to low ridership
  • N80 brought back as Hicksville-Sunrise Mall Community Shuttle every 60 minutes, rush hours only
  • Sunrise Mall Community Shuttle had greatly reduced running time compared to previous N80, buses couldn’t keep schedule
  • Shuttle replaced by reinstated N80 with 80 min headway’s and original runtime in order to only use 1 bus

Timeline:

  • January 17th, 2016: N2, N8, N14, N17, N20L, N46, N50, N51, N62, N73, N74, N80, N81 eliminated
  • June 26th, 2016: N14, N17, N80, N81 brought back
  • September 6th, 2016: N2, N51, N62, N73 brought back
  • April 9th, 2017: N14, N22A, N36, N45, N47, N51, N62, N72, N73, N81 eliminated; N19 and N57 saved from eliminated by last minute funding; N19, N21, N27, N33, N70, N71, N72 saw great reductions in service hours

Wow, and what was this "JFK Flyer" route?

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33 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Wow, and what was this "JFK Flyer" route?

Ran under MTA Long Island Bus. Followed the N16 from Hempstead to Rockville Centre, the N4 to Hook Creek Blvd, and then headed down Hook Creek to Conduit Ave, then to the airport. It was the N91 and it ran every 60 minutes daily except rush hours were it was every 50 minutes in the morning and every 55 minutes in the afternoon.

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38 minutes ago, jaf0519 said:

Ran under MTA Long Island Bus. Followed the N16 from Hempstead to Rockville Centre, the N4 to Hook Creek Blvd, and then headed down Hook Creek to Conduit Ave, then to the airport. It was the N91 and it ran every 60 minutes daily except rush hours were it was every 50 minutes in the morning and every 55 minutes in the afternoon.

Which NICE brought the JFK Flyer back. Hourly Frequency can work.

Same goes for the n8 Jamaica-Archer Avenue, Hempstead Transit Center. 

I think the Flyer can be brought back if it made the following Stops:
 

Hempstead Transit Center, Franklin at Fulton Avenue, Newman's Court, Mercy Medical Center at North Village Avenue, Merrick at Five Corners in Lybrook, Merrick at Rockaway Avenue, Merrick at Central Avenue, Green Acres Mall at Macy's, Rosedale LIRR, Farmers at North Conduit, and head to the Airport.

*Routes n65-67 where school shuttles for Catholic Students. 

*n8 was supposed to be a Hempstead-Jamaica Center Route, or Hempstead-Green Acres route but got cut due to lack of funding from the State.

Edited by NY1635

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They should bring back the N8, but have it run from Green Acres to Roosevelt Field via Hempstead. it can replace the Clinton Rd N15 trips.

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On 1/27/2020 at 6:29 AM, Lawrence St said:

I was reading the NICE bus wiki and I saw that several routes were discontinued between 2016-2017. Were these low ridership routes? Were they merged into other routes? 

Some of that is summarized here: 

 

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On 1/27/2020 at 11:29 AM, NY1635 said:

Which NICE brought the JFK Flyer back. Hourly Frequency can work.

Same goes for the n8 Jamaica-Archer Avenue, Hempstead Transit Center. 

I think the Flyer can be brought back if it made the following Stops:
 

Hempstead Transit Center, Franklin at Fulton Avenue, Newman's Court, Mercy Medical Center at North Village Avenue, Merrick at Five Corners in Lybrook, Merrick at Rockaway Avenue, Merrick at Central Avenue, Green Acres Mall at Macy's, Rosedale LIRR, Farmers at North Conduit, and head to the Airport.

*Routes n65-67 where school shuttles for Catholic Students. 

*n8 was supposed to be a Hempstead-Jamaica Center Route, or Hempstead-Green Acres route but got cut due to lack of funding from the State.

JFK Flyer was before Airtrain. Now, its MUCH faster to take Airtrain-->LIRR

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On 2/6/2020 at 2:05 AM, Mtatransit said:

JFK Flyer was before Airtrain. Now, its MUCH faster to take Airtrain-->LIRR

Most people living on Long Island prefer to drive or take a cab because it's easier to hop on the parkway, and enter the airport coming from out east. The Airtrain and LIRR Combo is mostly for tourists coming from points west, or family that's not familiar with the area.

Another problem is that the LIRR is busy doing the Third Track Project is forcing some runs along the Main Line to slow down while construction workers do their job.

IIRC, the LIRR takes roughly 20-30 minutes to reach Jamaica, followed by another 20 or so minutes on the Airtrain. That's not even accounting the 5-10 minutes going up and down the stairs at Jamaica with heavy luggage or the hour long waits at the platforms for a certain train to arrive.  Keep in mind that only the Main Line and the Bablyon Branch are the only lines with subway like frequencies or in the Bablyon Branch's case, has super express service that skips Jamaica during peak periods. 

The JFK Flyer got eliminated mostly due to a fleet problem. It was just an old school bus and a Gillig running infrequently. IIRC, it was used more by people living in Queens as an alternative to the n4.

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Lol, hourly frequency on the JFK Flyer....

I don't ever want to hear a Nassau resident complain about empty buses in Queens again....

YGBFKM.... FOH.

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n36 bus should come back as Freeport-Lynbrook bus using same buses Pt. Washington Shuttle, Mercy Medical Shuttle and Elmont Flexi buses are using. Due pilot program during rush hour first via Atlantic Av.

 

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:41 PM, FamousNYLover said:

n36 bus should come back as Freeport-Lynbrook bus using same buses Pt. Washington Shuttle, Mercy Medical Shuttle and Elmont Flexi buses are using. Due pilot program during rush hour first via Atlantic Av.

 

The n36 had 2000 riders

n19 had 2240 riders between Freeport and Bablyon

The problem: No capacity at Lynbrook. The n25 is Laying Over at Broadway by the Station Plaza.

Our math was off because the state did very bad math.

I am more concerned with trying to make the n65/66 between East Rockaway and Mineola Station or n67 between Freeport and Hicksville via Uniondale

Our problem is that there's a large influx of city reisdents in Nassau because of the slow redesign.

West Indians are taking over West Hempstead and Baldwin Harbor.

They've been giving NICE bus drivers a head ache, especially the nurses working out of the Hospital by Sunrise Mall.

I think the n72 should be restored.

The n70/71/72 has a combined 5000 riders. It'll lessen the confusion a bit of the 72 ended in Bablyon.

NICE is just waiting for SCT to do their own Farmingdale-Bablyon route. Not sure why, Suffolk has it way better than Nassau. Just make the S1 and S3 24 hrs.

From what I've been told, nobody wants to do the transfer at the college to get to Hicksville. It's a shame cause the S1 is pretty fast.

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2 hours ago, NY1635 said:

I think the n72 should be restored.

The n70/71/72 has a combined 5000 riders. It'll lessen the confusion a bit of the 72 ended in Bablyon.

NICE is just waiting for SCT to do their own Farmingdale-Bablyon route. Not sure why, Suffolk has it way better than Nassau. Just make the S1 and S3 24 hrs.

From what I've been told, nobody wants to do the transfer at the college to get to Hicksville. It's a shame cause the S1 is pretty fast.

Strictly for coverage purposes, I think the N71 portion between Farmingdale & Sunrise mall should have been combined with the N81 portion between Hempstead Tpke. & Hicksville with a service span similar to today's n80....

NICE is losing out on ridership in Farmingdale & IMO, underestimating how much of an employment area rt. 110 is now..... The S1 hardly does shit for all those Nassau residents that work out in Farmingdale..... The only thing NICE got right as far as Hempstead Tpke. service is concerned IMO, is the truncation of service from Wellwood av (Newsday), to SUNY Farmingdale on the n70.....

While I get the whole n70 on weekdays / n72 on weekends thing NICE has done (all today's n72 route is, is an n70 short turn, dead at Conklin/110), I don't care for how they continue to use the n71 in the network (as complementary Hempstead Tpke. service, combined with coverage along Carmans rd.).... I personally never cared for the n71 anyway, because there is & has always been far more demand for 110, than there is/has been for Sunrise & anything along Carmans).....

As for the N72, I agree that it should be revived, but I don't think you have to run it all the way out to HTC..... I would drum up a Hicksville > Farmingdale > Babylon route, basically a combination of [the current n80 between Hicksville & Hempstead Tpke.] & [the old N72 from LIRR Babylon to 107].....

To sum it up:

  1. n70 routing remains as is, runs 7-day a week, short turns at Conklin/110 on weekends, gets a slight service increase on weekdays...
  2. n71 runs between LIRR Hicksville & Sunrise (via Carmans, via Stewart) solely in the peak direction; no mid-day service...
  3. n72 runs between LIRR Hicksville & LIRR Babylon (via rt. 109, rt. 110, rt. 107)... Service to run hourly.
  4. n80 continues to run like it currently does service-wise, but gets truncated to LIRR Massapequa...

 

 

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Strictly for coverage purposes, I think the N71 portion between Farmingdale & Sunrise mall should have been combined with the N81 portion between Hempstead Tpke. & Hicksville with a service span similar to today's n80....

NICE is losing out on ridership in Farmingdale & IMO, underestimating how much of an employment area rt. 110 is now..... The S1 hardly does shit for all those Nassau residents that work out in Farmingdale..... The only thing NICE got right as far as Hempstead Tpke. service is concerned IMO, is the truncation of service from Wellwood av (Newsday), to SUNY Farmingdale on the n70.....

While I get the whole n70 on weekdays / n72 on weekends thing NICE has done (all today's n72 route is, is an n70 short turn, dead at Conklin/110), I don't care for how they continue to use the n71 in the network (as complementary Hempstead Tpke. service, combined with coverage along Carmans rd.).... I personally never cared for the n71 anyway, because there is & has always been far more demand for 110, than there is/has been for Sunrise & anything along Carmans).....

As for the N72, I agree that it should be revived, but I don't think you have to run it all the way out to HTC..... I would drum up a Hicksville > Farmingdale > Babylon route, basically a combination of [the current n80 between Hicksville & Hempstead Tpke.] & [the old N72 from LIRR Babylon to 107].....

To sum it up:

  1. n70 routing remains as is, runs 7-day a week, short turns at Conklin/110 on weekends, gets a slight service increase on weekdays...
  2. n71 runs between LIRR Hicksville & Sunrise (via Carmans, via Stewart) solely in the peak direction; no mid-day service...
  3. n72 runs between LIRR Hicksville & LIRR Babylon (via rt. 109, rt. 110, rt. 107)... Service to run hourly.
  4. n80 continues to run like it currently does service-wise, but gets truncated to LIRR Massapequa...

 

 

The n70/71 get high usage in that area. The n72 actually ends at Conklin and 110 by the Overpass. 

The n70 is a college shuttle

n71 is used by people who got left behind at the mall because the n54/55 just sped off.

Not sure why Surnise is bad. Every person who wait there always look like they are about to die or they hate it.

The S20/33 is the only thing that idles. Makes me wonder why they don't expand into Freeport for those displaced Bablyon residents..

 

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22 hours ago, NY1635 said:

West Indians are taking over West Hempstead and Baldwin Harbor.

Baldwin Harbor, yes. West Hempstead, no.

The West Indians you see in West Hempstead are typically home aides and babysitters for the area's rapidly expanding Orthodox Jewish community, which probably is about 1/3th of the population in the area as whole now, and a sizable majority in the triangle of Hempstead Avenue, Woodfield Road, and Eagle Avenue.

Edited by 67thAve

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3 hours ago, 67thAve said:

Baldwin Harbor, yes. West Hempstead, no.

The West Indians you see in West Hempstead are typically home aides and babysitters for the area's rapidly expanding Orthodox Jewish community, which probably is about 1/3rd of the population in the town, and a sizable majority within the triangle bounded by Hempstead Avenue, Woodfield Road, and Eagle Avenue.

I made some pretty severe typos in this post.

Next time, I ought to proofread a bit more!

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