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Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

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On 11/9/2020 at 3:04 PM, FamousNYLover said:

n22A was discontinue on April 9th, 20017 as part of April 9th doomsday cut.

You can see 18 f***in thousand years into the future? Holy shit dude!!

When in the hell did they bring it back?!??!!

On 11/8/2020 at 11:28 PM, Q43LTD said:

So since I left New York, the n20, n22 and 24 are shells of themselves getting split and the 22A was eliminated?

Although I get the general point, I wouldn't necessarily say they're total shells of themselves; the n20g, [n22 & n24] between Jamaica & RFM still sees good usage... Guess you can throw the n22 b/w RFM & Hicksville in there as well.... The n20h & the n24 (b/w RFM & Hicksville) OTOH, Ooof...

Now the n19? That thing is a shell of it's former self... The thing basically only runs during conventional peak periods now :(

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I wish the N22 split was done at RFM rather than Mineola. So NYC would have two routes that give one seat rides to RFM rather than just the N24.

 

 

I miss the old N19, I remember a fan trip of the N4 from Jamaica to Freeport to the N19 to Babylon. One of my biggest transit buff regrets is never riding the N72 from Hempstead to Babylon. 

Edited by trainfan22

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On 12/17/2020 at 4:37 PM, B35 via Church said:

You can see 18 f***in thousand years into the future? Holy shit dude!!

When in the hell did they bring it back?!??!!

Although I get the general point, I wouldn't necessarily say they're total shells of themselves; the n20g, [n22 & n24] between Jamaica & RFM still sees good usage... Guess you can throw the n22 b/w RFM & Hicksville in there as well.... The n20h & the n24 (b/w RFM & Hicksville) OTOH, Ooof...

Now the n19? That thing is a shell of it's former self... The thing basically only runs during conventional peak periods now :(

20H still does pretty good, not AS good as before, but still decent. The n24 I felt like that portion, between RFM and Hicksville never did particularly good, even back when it was n78/79.  

On 12/17/2020 at 6:19 PM, trainfan22 said:

I wish the N22 split was done at RFM rather than Mineola. So NYC would have two routes that give one seat rides to RFM rather than just the N24.

 

 

I miss the old N19, I remember a fan trip of the N4 from Jamaica to Freeport to the N19 to Babylon. One of my biggest transit buff regrets is never riding the N72 from Hempstead to Babylon. 

I agree in that the 22 should have been split at RFM. The 24 should have been split at Mineola instead. 

I missed out on the n14/62 Loops... felt too awkward to stay on the bus the entire loop. especially when the ridership isn't particularly high

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23 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

20H still does pretty good, not AS good as before, but still decent. The n24 I felt like that portion, between RFM and Hicksville never did particularly good, even back when it was n78/79.  

I agree in that the 22 should have been split at RFM. The 24 should have been split at Mineola instead. 

I missed out on the n14/62 Loops... felt too awkward to stay on the bus the entire loop. especially when the ridership isn't particularly high

Sure, but the n20h pales in comparison to the n20g..... As for OCR west of RFM, yeah, it was never really great - which is what makes carving a route out to run b/w RFM & Hicksville along it a special sort of stupid.... The decision to cut the n78/79 back to Hicksville to have the n24 take over that part of OCR (from Jamaica) instead, was one of the smartest things routing-wise NICE bus did.... Usage on the n24 b/w Mineola & Hicksville did/does much better than usage on the old N78/79 did b/w that same stretch, large in part, because most folks coming from areas east of Hicksville bolted for the RR to get to points west of Hicksville....

Yeah, there's simply more demand for the n22 east of RFM over the n24 & the n24 west of Mineola is by far more utilized per stop (and slower on top of it)...

I never got a chance to take that N65/66 at all, nor did I have a chance to ride the full routes of a couple routes that ended up being eliminated.

On 12/17/2020 at 6:19 PM, trainfan22 said:

I miss the old N19, I remember a fan trip of the N4 from Jamaica to Freeport to the N19 to Babylon. One of my biggest transit buff regrets is never riding the N72 from Hempstead to Babylon. 

I miss riding the full route of the old N72 more than I did the old N19... Used to do the N6-N72 often enough; more than I did the N4-N19 to Babylon anyway.

More importantly though, the Suffolk portion of the N72 was simply more useful to more people.

The S20 taking over the Suffolk portion of the old N19 isn't cutting it.... They may as well do away with S20 service along Montauk Hwy.

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On 11/8/2020 at 11:28 PM, Q43LTD said:

So since I left New York, the n20, n22 and 24 are shells of themselves getting split and the 22A was eliminated? 

I can make that argument about the whole system in general. Nassau County got stripped of half its routes and then for the ones that still exist a good chunk of them have less service overall than years ago. 
The N19 is just a perfect example of a route that was decent back then and literally was stripped to almost nothing and I wouldn’t be surprised if it were to eventually get eliminated in favor of some weird N4 variant. 
 

I would have to say that the N20 is somewhat of a shell of its former self because there was much more service between Flushing and Nassau back then than there is now. The splitting of the N20 justified cuts to the route even though reliability is up. 

 

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16 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The N19 is just a perfect example of a route that was decent back then and literally was stripped to almost nothing and I wouldn’t be surprised if it were to eventually get eliminated in favor of some weird N4 variant.

Nah, if they can the n19, well then that'd be all she wrote for that part of the corridor... Can't see them running n4's past Freeport, when they're sitting up here splitting n20's, 22's, and 24's.

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3 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I can make that argument about the whole system in general. Nassau County got stripped of half its routes and then for the ones that still exist a good chunk of them have less service overall than years ago. 
The N19 is just a perfect example of a route that was decent back then and literally was stripped to almost nothing and I wouldn’t be surprised if it were to eventually get eliminated in favor of some weird N4 variant. 
 

I would have to say that the N20 is somewhat of a shell of its former self because there was much more service between Flushing and Nassau back then than there is now. The splitting of the N20 justified cuts to the route even though reliability is up. 

 

I would argue that the service between Flushing and Great Neck is still decent, but service to Roslyn definitely went downhill.

Despite losing close to half its route, ridership is only down 30,000 per year. Most likely the total ridership lost for the routes that were cut was only close to 10,000 and the rest were lost due to unreliability. 

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Nah, if they can the n19, well then that'd be all she wrote for that part of the corridor... Can't see them running n4's past Freeport, when they're sitting up here splitting n20's, 22's, and 24's.

Yeah, under the (MTA) the n19 had an relatively high ridership. Slowly NICE killed that route. They could've really boosted that route when they cut it in half back to Sunrise Mall, but I guess money was not there at that time. 

 

22 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

More importantly though, the Suffolk portion of the N72 was simply more useful to more people.

The S20 taking over the Suffolk portion of the old N19 isn't cutting it.... They may as well do away with S20 service along Montauk Hwy.

More Nassau riders definitely used the n72 than the n19, which garners more ridership in Suffolk and go no further than Sunrise Mall. The S20 I disagree. Before the Montauk Hwy loop, they served the S Bay Shopping Center using an extremely convoluted route. The routing on Montauk Highway simplified that alot. Plus, I think it served its Suffolk Patrons pretty decently (I never been on it since NICE though, so I don't really know, but under NICE it seems like most intermediate ridership gets off along the routing served by the S20)

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32 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

More Nassau riders definitely used the n72 than the n19, which garners more ridership in Suffolk and go no further than Sunrise Mall. The S20 I disagree. Before the Montauk Hwy loop, they served the S Bay Shopping Center using an extremely convoluted route. The routing on Montauk Highway simplified that alot. Plus, I think it served its Suffolk Patrons pretty decently (I never been on it since NICE though, so I don't really know, but under NICE it seems like most intermediate ridership gets off along the routing served by the S20)

Sure it simplified it, but much of nobody's using it... That's the problem.

Today's S20 along that stretch carries less than what the N19 used carry along that stretch; I don't even have to hesitate in saying that... Since we're talking about routes that are shells of their former selves, the S20 fits the bill as well - not just the Montauk Hwy. portion, but the entire thing really.... I'd say the thing is barely staying afloat.

Don't know about you, but I don't see what SCT can do to revitalize that route.... I just hope that they don't get stupid & end up combining (whichever leg of the route) with the S40.

Edited by B35 via Church

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29 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Sure it simplified it, but much of nobody's using it... That's the problem.

Today's S20 along that stretch carries less than what the N19 used carry along that stretch; I don't even have to hesitate in saying that... Since we're talking about routes that are shells of their former selves, the S20 fits the bill as well - not just the Montauk Hwy. portion, but the entire thing really.... It's barely staying afloat.

Don't know about you, but I don't see what SCT can do to revitalize that route.... I just hope that they don't get stupid & end up combining (whichever leg of the route) with the S40.

I honestly don't think combining it with the S40 would be that bad of an idea. Currently the S40 uses 4 buses, and the S20 uses 2 buses running each loop. The combined run time would be about 170 minutes round trip or 180 min with layover. That means that with 6 buses, Suffolk could run the S40 all the way to Sunrise Mall every 30 minutes. 

The ridership along Montauk Highway used to be better than along Oak St (not sure about that now), so if it were up to me, I would eliminate all service along Oak and run the 40 along Montauk Highway and connect to the S1 at Amityville and proceed to Sunrise Mall.

n19 used to run every every 30 min compared to the every 90 min for the s20 now, so that may partially explain its anemic ridership.

The issue I am having now is that Sunrise Mall really isn't a ridership draw as much as it used to, and connections in Nassau is much fewer than before, so in a way, you are right, we may be overserving that segment if we extend the S40. But it is cost neutral.

Edited by Mtatransit

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36 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

I honestly don't think combining it with the S40 would be that bad of an idea. Currently the S40 uses 4 buses, and the S20 uses 2 buses running each loop. The combined run time would be about 170 minutes round trip or 180 min with layover. That means that with 6 buses, Suffolk could run the S40 all the way to Sunrise Mall every 30 minutes. 

The ridership along Montauk Highway used to be better than along Oak St (not sure about that now), so if it were up to me, I would eliminate all service along Oak and run the 40 along Montauk Highway and connect to the S1 at Amityville and proceed to Sunrise Mall.

n19 used to run every every 30 min compared to the every 90 min for the s20 now, so that may partially explain its anemic ridership.

The issue I am having now is that Sunrise Mall really isn't a ridership draw as much as it used to, and connections in Nassau is much fewer than before, so in a way, you are right, we may be overserving that segment if we extend the S40. But it is cost neutral.

Doesn't the S20 use cutaways?

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10 minutes ago, Lex said:

Doesn't the S20 use cutaways?

Yeah it is one of the routes that use cutaways. But the equation is still the same. Most of the cost of the operation of transit is labor.

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19 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I honestly don't think combining it with the S40 would be that bad of an idea. Currently the S40 uses 4 buses, and the S20 uses 2 buses running each loop. The combined run time would be about 170 minutes round trip or 180 min with layover. That means that with 6 buses, Suffolk could run the S40 all the way to Sunrise Mall every 30 minutes. 

The ridership along Montauk Highway used to be better than along Oak St (not sure about that now), so if it were up to me, I would eliminate all service along Oak and run the 40 along Montauk Highway and connect to the S1 at Amityville and proceed to Sunrise Mall.

n19 used to run every every 30 min compared to the every 90 min for the s20 now, so that may partially explain its anemic ridership.

The issue I am having now is that Sunrise Mall really isn't a ridership draw as much as it used to, and connections in Nassau is much fewer than before, so in a way, you are right, we may be overserving that segment if we extend the S40. But it is cost neutral.

You can run buses on any desired frequency, as long as you have enough equipment to carry out the task... That alone doesn't make it justified to run the S40 out to Sunrise (albeit being cost-neutral)... That route (S40) is solid, routing-wise, the way it is IMO.... As for (today's) S20, I'd say it's more or less a wash now - both legs being equally anemic (which actually says more about the Oak st. leg than anything, since buses historically ran along Oak anyway, prior to the whole turning the S20 into a loop route)....

I find that more people now seek out the S33 at Sunrise off (whatever) NICE route, than they do the S20..... Sunrise as a consistent, major destination for bus riders, I wanna say, started declining sometime in the mid-to-late 2000's.... Could've even been before that.

19 hours ago, Lex said:

Doesn't the S20 use cutaways?

One of the many (routes) that do now, yeah.

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#1844 taken OOS at Mineola this morning.... First time I've been on a bus that went OOS due to a farebox issue.... I'd say they lost out on about 40-50 fares or so.

This doesn't matter, but for those that are curious, it was the 5am n24 trip to Hicksville...

The damned thing (farebox) kept doing this incessant beeping the whole ride from 165th.... Had to put my MP3 player's volume higher than I normally do to drown it out.... Least I (and everyone else) got a free ride out of it..... Beeping was still annoying as shit though.

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23 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

#1844 taken OOS at Mineola this morning.... First time I've been on a bus that went OOS due to a farebox issue.... I'd say they lost out on about 40-50 fares or so.

This doesn't matter, but for those that are curious, it was the 5am n24 trip to Hicksville...

The damned thing (farebox) kept doing this incessant beeping the whole ride from 165th.... Had to put my MP3 player's volume higher than I normally do to drown it out.... Least I (and everyone else) got a free ride out of it..... Beeping was still annoying as shit though.

If I remember correctly, this happened on #1763 as well. Sheesh, whole thing was beeping the entire time on the n20G to Flushing.  Bus was packed to the gills, I think the bus operator did another trip after that, poor operator putting up with that nonsense.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

If I remember correctly, this happened on #1763 as well. Sheesh, whole thing was beeping the entire time on the n20G to Flushing.  Bus was packed to the gills, I think the bus operator did another trip after that, poor operator putting up with that nonsense.

Imagine doing a trip on the full n24 to Hicksville, to then do a n20H trip to Great Neck after the fact with that infernal beeping....

After we switched buses at Mineola due to that farebox issue (and eventually got to Hicksville), the same bus/driver went on to do a 20H.

Edited by B35 via Church
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8 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

As anyone seen the XN60s on the N6X recently? Been thinking of catching another ride on one.

Last time I seen one was a couple months ago... Recently though, nah, I haven't been seeing them....

When I got to HTC (5am) early this morning, I came off an n6 & as I was power-walking to catch the n27 (which I ended up missing), I noticed an n6x pulling out for Jamaica... Didn't get the bus number, but it was a 40'-er.

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On 1/7/2021 at 3:33 PM, trainfan22 said:

As anyone seen the XN60s on the N6X recently? Been thinking of catching another ride on one.

There were a bunch of them out on the N6x today. 


I actually managed to fan a few Nassau County routes today. I started off on the N6 at Hillside/168 Pl, took it all the way to Franklin Ave & Centre Street. I really wanted to take it to Hempstead terminal to catch the N31 but I was afraid I would miss the bus so I got off a stop early. After I caught the N31, I rode it to Merrick Road and came back to Queens on the N4. 

The N6 managed to stay crowded from the Hillside Ave & 168th Pl all the way to the last stop. What was surprising to me is how many people who boarded from my stop or the stops before mine and rode to the last stop. I guess it is better than paying $7 or more dollars for the LIRR which I guess can partially explain why the N4, N6, N22 and N24 do as well as they do. I remember fanning the N22 and N24 from Jamaica about two years ago and was surprised at how many people were still on the bus at Roosevelt Field Mall from Jamaica. 
 

I also got on a 1700 series bus whose rear doors were broken. I think it was 1708 but I’m not 100% sure but basically everyone who wanted to exit needed to do so through the front. I don’t know how NICE let that bus out of the depot like that, but after all it is NICE, so it’s expected tbh. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

There were a bunch of them out on the N6x today. 


I actually managed to fan a few Nassau County routes today. I started off on the N6 at Hillside/168 Pl, took it all the way to Franklin Ave & Centre Street. I really wanted to take it to Hempstead terminal to catch the N31 but I was afraid I would miss the bus so I got off a stop early. After I caught the N31, I rode it to Merrick Road and came back to Queens on the N4. 

The N6 managed to stay crowded from the Hillside Ave & 168th Pl all the way to the last stop. What was surprising to me is how many people who boarded from my stop or the stops before mine and rode to the last stop. I guess it is better than paying $7 or more dollars for the LIRR which I guess can partially explain why the N4, N6, N22 and N24 do as well as they do. I remember fanning the N22 and N24 from Jamaica about two years ago and was surprised at how many people were still on the bus at Roosevelt Field Mall from Jamaica. 
 

I also got on a 1700 series bus whose rear doors were broken. I think it was 1708 but I’m not 100% sure but basically everyone who wanted to exit needed to do so through the front. I don’t know how NICE let that bus out of the depot like that, but after all it is NICE, so it’s expected tbh. 

What time of day are we talking here?

I rode a couple buses yesterday, but as far as the NICE part of it, I did the n25 from LIJ to Great Neck to & all of the n20g to Flushing (the n20H was right there, but I didn't wanna go back to Hicksville for a 3rd day this week).... I still want to get around to doing the n78 & the n80.... Did the n79 the whole way to Whitman twice this week... What they've done to that corridor (n78/79) is disgusting - both buses I boarded were crushloaded & the lines for it wrapped around the corner both times/days.....

Anyway, to the other point, the NICE buses don't directly compete with the RR... It's like saying the M101/2/3 or the Bx41/SBS competes with MNRR.... To this day, I find it hilarious how HTC & LIRR Hempstead can literally be across the street from one another - but be worlds apart from each other! The cohesion b/w the WP Transcenter & MNRR White Plains (I guess that still counts for being across the street) isn't even that bad....

Edited by B35 via Church

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9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

What time of day are we talking here?

I rode a couple buses yesterday, but as far as the NICE part of it, I did the n25 from LIJ to Great Neck to & all of the n20g to Flushing (the n20H was right there, but I didn't wanna go back to Hicksville for a 3rd day this week).... I still want to get around to doing the n78 & the n80.... Did the n79 the whole way to Whitman twice this week... What they've done to that corridor (n78/79) is disgusting - both buses I boarded were crushloaded & the lines for it wrapped around the corner both times/days.....

Anyway, to the other point, the NICE buses don't directly compete with the RR... It's like saying the M101/2/3 or the Bx41/SBS competes with MNRR.... To this day, I find it hilarious how HTC & LIRR Hempstead can literally be across the street from one another - but be worlds apart from each other! The cohesion b/w the WP Transcenter & MNRR White Plains (I guess that still counts for being across the street) isn't even that bad....

I fanned the routes between 4 and 6pm. I boarded the N6 at 4:12p, and we got to Franklin Ave about 5:10pm. The N31 came at 5:18pm and we got to Merrick Road at 5:42pm. The N4 was bunched up but it got to the stop the same time I got there. 
 

One of these days I want to get around to doing the n22 or n24 from 165th to Hicksville and then take the N20H to the N20G back to Flushing but that in itself will be one heck of a ride since going and coming will be at least an hour and a half in each direction. 
What I have noticed according to the n22 and n24 schedule is that buses on the n22 end at Mineola and a few minute it does a trip to Hicksville. The n24 does the same thing where buses end at Roosevelt Field Mall and then continues to Hicksville after a few minutes. So is it the same bus continuing out to Hicksville or does everyone have to get off the bus and board a second bus? If they were going to do this split why not just call the second part of the route another name? 
 

And I see the point you are making with the railroad and the bus. I just found it interesting how many people actually rode the n6 all the way to the last stop from Jamaica. I don’t know too many long routes in the city where you would have a decent amount of people riding from one end to another. Maybe the Q44 because I always see a bunch of people who get on in Jamaica and ride all the way up to Parkchester for example. 

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24 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

One of these days I want to get around to doing the n22 or n24 from 165th to Hicksville and then take the N20H to the N20G back to Flushing but that in itself will be one heck of a ride since going and coming will be at least an hour and a half in each direction. 
What I have noticed according to the n22 and n24 schedule is that buses on the n22 end at Mineola and a few minute it does a trip to Hicksville. The n24 does the same thing where buses end at Roosevelt Field Mall and then continues to Hicksville after a few minutes. So is it the same bus continuing out to Hicksville or does everyone have to get off the bus and board a second bus? If they were going to do this split why not just call the second part of the route another name? 

I’m not 100% percent sure, but I believe for the N22 and N24 you would have to get off an wait for another bus. likely the one you got off would head back in the direction it came from. And one weekends they are still one route from Jamaica to Hicksville so it wouldn’t make sense to call them different numbers. 

And with the N20, I still think they should have called the N20G the N21 and the N20H just the N20. Could have kept the N21 as the Queens-Nassau route with most trips short turning at Great Neck and a few during the rush and saturdays going all the way to Glen Cove. Plus they could claim that technically both the N20 and N21 have daily service in stead of just the N20 today.

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19 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I still want to get around to doing the n78 & the n80.... Did the n79 the whole way to Whitman twice this week... What they've done to that corridor (n78/79) is disgusting - both buses I boarded were crushloaded & the lines for it wrapped around the corner both times/days.....

Anyway, to the other point, the NICE buses don't directly compete with the RR... It's like saying the M101/2/3 or the Bx41/SBS competes with MNRR.... To this day, I find it hilarious how HTC & LIRR Hempstead can literally be across the street from one another - but be worlds apart from each other! The cohesion b/w the WP Transcenter & MNRR White Plains (I guess that still counts for being across the street) isn't even that bad....

Haha looks like NICE Bus doesn't think the n78/79 is well used "according to their timetable dots". N79

That being said, NICE really destroyed ridership along that route (just like the n19). While Saturday service along OC Rd is more frequent, that midday gap is still terrible

 

That being said, in some ways the primary purpose of NICE is not to compete with the LIRR, but indirectly if the RR fares were more reasonable, alot more people will be on the trains instead of getting the subway at Jamaica Center and/or 179th St. This is also somewhat true at Great Neck. NICE will instead be used for the last leg purposes (gets off train at Mineola and taking the bus to RF)

Under LIB, even in its last days there were still people transferring between trains and buses. That ridership, I think is gone. I rarely see anyone do that now. Looks like the people who formely used the train to connect with the bus found another way. Even at Mineola, the demographics seems to be completely different between the two modes as well despite the "Intermodal Center" not much transfers anymore

9 hours ago, jaf0519 said:

And with the N20, I still think they should have called the N20G the N21 and the N20H just the N20. Could have kept the N21 as the Queens-Nassau route with most trips short turning at Great Neck and a few during the rush and saturdays going all the way to Glen Cove. Plus they could claim that technically both the N20 and N21 have daily service in stead of just the N20 today.

Honestly I would just reroute the n21 via Glen Cove Rd and eliminate the current unique n21 portion. Either that or short turn all the n21 into n20H and run that to CW Post.

Whats extremely annoying these days is that n20H and n21 have separate timetables and comparing the two is a HUGE hassle

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22 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I fanned the routes between 4 and 6pm. I boarded the N6 at 4:12p, and we got to Franklin Ave about 5:10pm. The N31 came at 5:18pm and we got to Merrick Road at 5:42pm. The N4 was bunched up but it got to the stop the same time I got there. 
 

One of these days I want to get around to doing the n22 or n24 from 165th to Hicksville and then take the N20H to the N20G back to Flushing but that in itself will be one heck of a ride since going and coming will be at least an hour and a half in each direction. 
What I have noticed according to the n22 and n24 schedule is that buses on the n22 end at Mineola and a few minute it does a trip to Hicksville. The n24 does the same thing where buses end at Roosevelt Field Mall and then continues to Hicksville after a few minutes. So is it the same bus continuing out to Hicksville or does everyone have to get off the bus and board a second bus? If they were going to do this split why not just call the second part of the route another name? 
 

And I see the point you are making with the railroad and the bus. I just found it interesting how many people actually rode the n6 all the way to the last stop from Jamaica. I don’t know too many long routes in the city where you would have a decent amount of people riding from one end to another. Maybe the Q44 because I always see a bunch of people who get on in Jamaica and ride all the way up to Parkchester for example. 

Figured as such... I usually do early morning trips.... The n6x's I would see were always the 40 footers..

I'm going to call a spade, a spade here (that last question you pose, hits the nail on the head btw).... What they're doing with the n22 & n24 isn't much more than dual-ended interlining of short turns... The n22 & n24 aren't truly split.... This is why the earlier trips from Jamaica run to Hicksville (same bus) & the later trips from like noon, onward, terminate at Mineola (n22) & RFM (n24).... The tactic of [advertising the current implementation of service on the n22/n24 as being that of a split], is no different than [advertising a CUT that took place along Babylon Tpke. with the n41 as that of being an n40/41 combination]... Ever thought how NICE was able to slyly get away with calling the n40, the "n40/41"? It's clever advertising..... That would be like cutting direct service to [along 149th & along 3rd] from along Grand Concourse & calling that service the "Bx1/2"....

21 hours ago, jaf0519 said:

And with the N20, I still think they should have called the N20G the N21 and the N20H just the N20. Could have kept the N21 as the Queens-Nassau route with most trips short turning at Great Neck and a few during the rush and saturdays going all the way to Glen Cove. Plus they could claim that technically both the N20 and N21 have daily service in stead of just the N20 today.

This whole song & dance you're taking us down with what should be called what, is nothing more than passively conveying that the n21 (from Flushing) should've been kept intact over the pre-split n20....

As far as the bus is concerned, there's far more a demand for Hicksville-Queens travel than there is for Glen Cove-Queens travel..... Fact of the matter is that NICE doesn't want to run one service between Flushing & Hicksville....

12 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Haha looks like NICE Bus doesn't think the n78/79 is well used "according to their timetable dots". N79

That being said, NICE really destroyed ridership along that route (just like the n19). While Saturday service along OC Rd is more frequent, that midday gap is still terrible

Ever since they've relegated the n79 to what it is service-wise, I would give up on providing direct service to Whitman Mall (despite the Saturday additions they recently gave the thing).... I see nothing much has changed since NICE done what it did to the thing; it's still like 80-90% of everyone that boarded at Hicksville that's off the bus by time it hits Manetto Hill/OCR.... Some of those people that get off at Manetto Hill/OCR itself starts walking east, which tells me there's *some* demand for earlier n78 service....

After Woodbury rd/Jericho Tpke., I think they're far better off trying their hand at turning the n79 in the other direction, over & up towards Syosset at this point... The demand for Syosset trumps that of for S. Huntington.... The n79 isn't the N79 anymore (speaking of riderships/rider patterns that done evaporated); they're just pissing away mileage with the n79 IMO.....

12 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

That being said, in some ways the primary purpose of NICE is not to compete with the LIRR, but indirectly if the RR fares were more reasonable, alot more people will be on the trains instead of getting the subway at Jamaica Center and/or 179th St. This is also somewhat true at Great Neck. NICE will instead be used for the last leg purposes (gets off train at Mineola and taking the bus to RF)

Under LIB, even in its last days there were still people transferring between trains and buses. That ridership, I think is gone. I rarely see anyone do that now. Looks like the people who formely used the train to connect with the bus found another way. Even at Mineola, the demographics seems to be completely different between the two modes as well despite the "Intermodal Center" not much transfers anymore.

For Hempstead specifically, I'm not so sure about that; I still think people would bombard the n6/n6x if LIRR fares were cheaper.... Other parts of Nassau though, I'd say, yeah....

Lol, yeah, xfers b/w the bus & the RR were never all that great/high to begin with (it's still the suburbs after all), but the phenomenon is even more a non-factor these days.... At Mineola in-particular, in the few years I worked out there alone, I definitely noticed an increase in the amt. of folks kiss & riding (being dropped off & picked up by family/friends or whatever) at LIRR Mineola.... I could only imagine how shit out there is now, with all the construction at the station taking place & what not.... Before I had stopped taking the LIRR & started driving when I was working out there, the one thing I noticed in the morning was that the lion's share of those that were seeking buses after having gotten off the train, were gunning for the EB n22/24.... Almost nobody gunned for the n23 & few would gun for the n40/41.... WB n22/24, forget it....

13 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Honestly I would just reroute the n21 via Glen Cove Rd and eliminate the current unique n21 portion. Either that or short turn all the n21 into n20H and run that to CW Post.

Whats extremely annoying these days is that n20H and n21 have separate timetables and comparing the two is a HUGE hassle

I wholly concur with the first option; the n21 should be routed through Greenvale instead of through Sea Cliff... At least the n21 has Saturday service - more than we can say for the n27.....

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I was on 1848 yesterday on the n32 and the back doors were having issues so just like the 1700 series bus I was on the other day, everyone had to exit through the front.

Also yesterday I was trying to catch the 5:57pm n4 from Jamaica Center and the guy ending up leaving 4 minutes earlier at 5:53 causing me to just miss it. I had just got off the Q25 and I was trying to cross Archer and I see the n4 pulling off. It was upsetting because it forced me to take the LIRR so that I wouldn’t be late to my destination. The standard for NICE is much lower than that of the MTA for real. 
 

On 1/10/2021 at 12:37 PM, B35 via Church said:

Figured as such... I usually do early morning trips.... The n6x's I would see were always the 40 footers..

I'm going to call a spade, a spade here (that last question you pose, hits the nail on the head btw).... What they're doing with the n22 & n24 isn't much more than dual-ended interlining of short turns... The n22 & n24 aren't truly split.... This is why the earlier trips from Jamaica run to Hicksville (same bus) & the later trips from like noon, onward, terminate at Mineola (n22) & RFM (n24).... The tactic of [advertising the current implementation of service on the n22/n24 as being that of a split], is no different than [advertising a CUT that took place along Babylon Tpke. with the n41 as that of being an n40/41 combination]... Ever thought how NICE was able to slyly get away with calling the n40, the "n40/41"? It's clever advertising..... That would be like cutting direct service to [along 149th & along 3rd] from along Grand Concourse & calling that service the "Bx1/2"....

This whole song & dance you're taking us down with what should be called what, is nothing more than passively conveying that the n21 (from Flushing) should've been kept intact over the pre-split n20....

As far as the bus is concerned, there's far more a demand for Hicksville-Queens travel than there is for Glen Cove-Queens travel..... Fact of the matter is that NICE doesn't want to run one service between Flushing & Hicksville....

I don’t know what NICE is doing when it comes to the n22 and n24. I get that these routes are very long and prone to more delays but if you are going to start to split up runs on the weekdays they might as well go all the way and have the n78/n79 take over the part and call the part of the n22 between Mineola & Hicksville the n42. Seems like they want to do what they did with the n20 to the n22 and n24 but at the same time they are holding off. On the weekends yeah the routes are still in tact, but the question is for how long? 

Edited by NewFlyer 230

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13 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I don’t know what NICE is doing when it comes to the n22 and n24. I get that these routes are very long and prone to more delays but if you are going to start to split up runs on the weekdays they might as well go all the way and have the n78/n79 take over the part and call the part of the n22 between Mineola & Hicksville the n42. Seems like they want to do what they did with the n20 to the n22 and n24 but at the same time they are holding off. On the weekends yeah the routes are still in tact, but the question is for how long? 

Have the n78/79 take over what part? The n24 between RFM & Hicksville? I don't see them running those two routes west of Hicksville like the N78/79 used to... From what I notice, most n78/79 riders either come off the RR itself, the n22, or the n48/49....

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