Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[User]

11 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

How would you all rate NICE’s maintenance and service overall nowadays?

I never had a reason to be in Nassau County a few years back so I never experienced NICE at it’s worst, but I heard it was bad. I only started using NICE starting from September 2020 and so far my experience has been decent to my surprise. I haven’t experienced breakdowns and or missing runs, so it seems that they have gotten somewhat better compared to before. 
 

From what I recall breakdowns were a common thing even under Long Island Bus. I do certainly remember PinePower lol making his videos back then about how terrible LI Bus was. I know Nassau was being stingy back then so there was only so much the MTA could do. 

A quick search on YouTube brought up this recent video that took place a few weeks ago so looks like they are still happening:

 

[danielhg121]

 

7 hours ago, User said:

A quick search on YouTube brought up this recent video that took place a few weeks ago so looks like they are still happening:

[video]

I wonder if that breakdown occurred due to the power-hungry HVAC. 

[NewFlyer 230]

9 hours ago, User said:

A quick search on YouTube brought up this recent video that took place a few weeks ago so looks like they are still happening:

 

Oh it’s one of the old XN40’s. I’m not a big fan of those particular units in comparison to the recent XN40s. I feel that the XN40’s #1970-1999 and the Gilligs will overall hold up better since they came during a time when things started to improve for NICE. 

All the Orion’s and the 2015/2016 XN40’s had to deal with the poor maintenance of NICE back then so it seems that the damage has been done.

[Mtatransit]

On 8/1/2021 at 10:07 PM, NewFlyer 230 said:

How would you all rate NICE’s maintenance and service overall nowadays?

I never had a reason to be in Nassau County a few years back so I never experienced NICE at it’s worst, but I heard it was bad. I only started using NICE starting from September 2020 and so far my experience has been decent to my surprise. I haven’t experienced breakdowns and or missing runs, so it seems that they have gotten somewhat better compared to before. 
 

From what I recall breakdowns were a common thing even under Long Island Bus. I do certainly remember PinePower lol making his videos back then about how terrible LI Bus was. I know Nassau was being stingy back then so there was only so much the MTA could do. 

In my experience, the XN40s are holding out pretty well. I haven't had any issues with them

The Orions though on the other hand is on its last legs. Even the newer 3G's. In fact, both times I been on the 3G this past month has been nothing but issues. Once on the n4 where it broke down as soon as it left Parsons, and once on the n15 where the bus wouldn't go over 20 mph

LIB really went downhill in its last days. MTA and (esp Nassau) didn't really care about the bus system anymore. In its last year 50% of the bus failed the state inspection. If NICE had that kind of rate they would've been shut down as a private company

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/li-bus-checks-wreak-havoc-on-riders-1.3357927

It was so bad that buses from the city (Orion V) from CP were transferred to cover LIB runs

 

The service on the other hand,

In some ways it gotten better for routes such as the n43 and the Sunday service on the N20 to Hicksville, but there are definitely noticeable cuts in both routes and frequency. The entire Southeastern Nassau's bus service is essentially gone (would've been gone whether under MTA or NICE) 

MTA ran a decent suburban system when it had the system. For example N19 had service every 20 minutes during rush hours back in the day, now its rush hours only. N1 and N23 both had periods of every 15/20 minutes service as well vs every 30/60 minutes today. NICE only recently have the budget MTA had in its last year (9 million from Nassau County). I am hoping they use this money to improve the frequencies back to the level MTA had in 2011

Edited August 3, 2021 by Mtatransit

[NewFlyer 230]

21 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

In my experience, the XN40s are holding out pretty well. I haven't had any issues with them

The Orions though on the other hand is on its last legs. Even the newer 3G's. In fact, both times I been on the 3G this past month has been nothing but issues. Once on the n4 where it broke down as soon as it left Parsons, and once on the n15 where the bus wouldn't go over 20 mph

LIB really went downhill in its last days. MTA and (esp Nassau) didn't really care about the bus system anymore. In its last year 50% of the bus failed the state inspection. If NICE had that kind of rate they would've been shut down as a private company

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/li-bus-checks-wreak-havoc-on-riders-1.3357927

It was so bad that buses from the city (Orion V) from CP were transferred to cover LIB runs

 

The service on the other hand,

In some ways it gotten better for routes such as the n43 and the Sunday service on the N20 to Hicksville, but there are definitely noticeable cuts in both routes and frequency. The entire Southeastern Nassau's bus service is essentially gone (would've been gone whether under MTA or NICE) 

MTA ran a decent suburban system when it had the system. For example N19 had service every 20 minutes during rush hours back in the day, now its rush hours only. N1 and N23 both had periods of every 15/20 minutes service as well vs every 30/60 minutes today. NICE only recently have the budget MTA had in its last year (9 million from Nassau County). I am hoping they use this money to improve the frequencies back to the level MTA had in 2011

Yeah I agree those Orion’s are finished and it’s sad because I like those buses. I remember how sleek and clean they looked when they first debuted under Long Island Bus with the blue stripe. Those buses were a nice addition (no pun intended) to Nassau since they didn’t have any low floor buses at the time. I also remember that period of time when the MTA’s Orion V CNG’s went to Long Island Bus. Luckily at the time the C40LF’s were coming in so they had all those buses to spare but could you imagine the cuts that would of taken place if the MTA wasn’t retiring any buses at the time?
 

Looking back at some of the old Long Island Bus schedules, the MTA did provide fair service and I applaud them for trying to maintain general coverage even if the route carried mostly air. Southwest Nassau also lost almost all its N/S routes like the n2, N3 and N8 under both the MTA and NICE except for the n1 which honestly I’m surprised it still has as much service as it does. I would honestly extend most of its day trips to and from Jamaica and have it as a supplement to the n6. Having it stop dead at Elmont & Hempstead Turnpike I feel crippled the routes potential because it forces people to make an additional transfer which some people do find annoying.

Even routes like the n4 and n6 weren’t safe from cuts and those routes are the top 2 in ridership within NICE. 

Besides the cutting of some routes I don’t agree with some of the changes NICE made to a few routes. 

I understand why they split the N20 in half but I don’t get why both the n21 and n20H have to terminate at Great Neck when one of those routes should continue to Flushing to restore some of the Flushing service along Northern Blvd in Nassau. Or maybe they should create a n20X route that skips Great Neck altogether and makes less stops in Queens. 
 

NICE should have cut both the n22 and n24 buses from Jamaica at Roosevelt Field Mall instead of once again forcing people to do that extra transfer. I get it’s a bit extra to have the n22 and n24 traveling the same path between Mineola and RFM but I feel that would have been a better place to cut the n22 at. The Hicksville portions of the n22 and n24 I would have the n78 and n79 cover them with short turns at Hicksville since the service offered between RFM & Hicksville service is greater then the service offered for the n78 and n79 in general.  
 

It’s a shame that the n19 got butchered the way it did. I would have never made any of the now rush hour only routes like the n19, n80, n78/n79 and so on into rush hour only routes. I would have simply provided hourly service but I do understand Nassau was being cheap to its own bus system. But what is highly evident is that when the bus system started receiving more funding the overall service and maintenance did improve. That 9 million is definitely making a difference and hopefully they can receive more in the future. 

[Mtatransit]

4 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Yeah I agree those Orion’s are finished and it’s sad because I like those buses. I remember how sleek and clean they looked when they first debuted under Long Island Bus with the blue stripe. Those buses were a nice addition (no pun intended) to Nassau since they didn’t have any low floor buses at the time. I also remember that period of time when the MTA’s Orion V CNG’s went to Long Island Bus. Luckily at the time the C40LF’s were coming in so they had all those buses to spare but could you imagine the cuts that would of taken place if the MTA wasn’t retiring any buses at the time?
 

Looking back at some of the old Long Island Bus schedules, the MTA did provide fair service and I applaud them for trying to maintain general coverage even if the route carried mostly air. Southwest Nassau also lost almost all its N/S routes like the n2, N3 and N8 under both the MTA and NICE except for the n1 which honestly I’m surprised it still has as much service as it does. I would honestly extend most of its day trips to and from Jamaica and have it as a supplement to the n6. Having it stop dead at Elmont & Hempstead Turnpike I feel crippled the routes potential because it forces people to make an additional transfer which some people do find annoying.

Even routes like the n4 and n6 weren’t safe from cuts and those routes are the top 2 in ridership within NICE. 

Besides the cutting of some routes I don’t agree with some of the changes NICE made to a few routes. 

I understand why they split the N20 in half but I don’t get why both the n21 and n20H have to terminate at Great Neck when one of those routes should continue to Flushing to restore some of the Flushing service along Northern Blvd in Nassau. Or maybe they should create a n20X route that skips Great Neck altogether and makes less stops in Queens. 
 

NICE should have cut both the n22 and n24 buses from Jamaica at Roosevelt Field Mall instead of once again forcing people to do that extra transfer. I get it’s a bit extra to have the n22 and n24 traveling the same path between Mineola and RFM but I feel that would have been a better place to cut the n22 at. The Hicksville portions of the n22 and n24 I would have the n78 and n79 cover them with short turns at Hicksville since the service offered between RFM & Hicksville service is greater then the service offered for the n78 and n79 in general.  
 

It’s a shame that the n19 got butchered the way it did. I would have never made any of the now rush hour only routes like the n19, n80, n78/n79 and so on into rush hour only routes. I would have simply provided hourly service but I do understand Nassau was being cheap to its own bus system. But what is highly evident is that when the bus system started receiving more funding the overall service and maintenance did improve. That 9 million is definitely making a difference and hopefully they can receive more in the future. 

Yeah when those Orions first came to LIB, they were absolutely beautiful. The 1700s and the 1800s have the misfortune of having suffered deferred maintenance under both MTA and NICE. Back then I thought that with the arrival of the new Orions Long Island Bus will be fully integrated into MTA Bus/NYCT with significantly increased frequency. Unfortunately, I failed to realize MTA/Nassau's budget fight that was largely in the background with MTA filling the deficit until Jay Walder decided to raise the LIB fare to $3.50 and cut half the system. 

Southwest Nassau still has reduced but robust transportation options. The only route that is gone gone is the N3 and the n8. The n2 was replaced by the Elmont Flexi with slightly reduced frequency. The Elmont Flexi really should have all-day service, even though ridership is not high, and has never been high on the n2/8. I still think that area of Elmont/Valley Stream deserves some sort of service all day.

That being said, I agree with you. I believe that all Elmont Locals need to be extended into Jamaica (n1/Elmont Flexi, or n2). It seems to be the only way to get people to a reason ride those routes. It duplicates the n6 in some ways, but my goal is to convert these routes into subway feeders like the rest of the Eastern Queens network. 

That being said, the n26 improved under NICE (considering the fact that MTA wanted to eliminate it in 2010). It went from three trips in each direction into 8-9 trips in each direction reverse peak. I have no doubt that the n22-n25 transfer or the E/F to the Q46 will not be as popular as the current n26 in carrying passengers from the Jamaica area to the hospitals
Regarding the n20, in some ways, I agree with what they have done.

The old n20 was beyond unreliable. I remember two n20 bunchings at Hicksville when the frequency was once an HOUR! That being said, I agree with the fact that they should've kept aleast rush hour thru trips skipping Great Neck. NICE has cut a lot of the Queens stops on their Jamaica routes, so they may be looking at reducing some stops on the n20 as well, but they all seem to be pretty busy (a good case for the Q12 to be extended to Great Neck if the City Line wasn't there).

For the n21 however, they should've killed the entire route and convert these trips to n20H CW Post short turns. Passengers needing Glen Cove could use the n27. It's too late now in that they completely butchered the service on the n27, but they got the right idea in 2012, when they converted the n27 on weekends into a shuttle between Roslyn and Glen Cove, forcing passengers who need Roosevelt Field and Hempstead on the n23. Passengers don't really use the bus along Roslyn Rd. 

For the n22/24 split, NICE should've cut both the n22 AND the n24 at Mineola (with the n22A restored on weekdays to provide direct service to RF (that is if they want to split the route like that). There are more passengers on the n24 west of Mineola, which is why it's more prone to delays west of Mineola than the n22, while the n22 is more prone to delays due to high ridership in Westbury/New Cassel compared to ridership on the n24 east of RF on Old Country Rd. 

I don't think the n22/24 should be split at all. NICE made the right decision in 2012 extending the n24 to Hicksville, allowing riders to get one seat rides from NYC to those shopping centers east of RF. Ridership on Old Country Rd went up because of that change. The split negated all of these positive changes. The split of n24 at RF essentially turns the portion of the route east of RF to Hicksville completely useless. Riders don't use the route on Old Country solely between Hicksville and RF. Even once you get to RF, in the past you could've transferred to the n22 to Jamaica, but now you need to transfer to the SECOND n22 at Mineola.

 
The split of n22 is slightly better but still not ideal. Riders at Mineola have the option of taking the SECOND n22 or the n24 to RF. I believe NICE split the n22 at Mineola to cater to the eastern portion of the route between Mineola to Hicksville. The core ridership on the n22 in New Cassel and Westbury is not really heading to Roosevelt Field. Mineola brings them "closer" to their eventual destination. There is simply too many overlapping destinations on the n22/24 and it is not as clean-cut as NICE seems to make things out to be.

[GojiMet86]

Since when does North Hempstead have a bus service? Someone posted a photo of a blue Gillig owned by the town.

[OIG119]

41 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

Since when does North Hempstead have a bus service? Someone posted a photo of a blue Gillig owned by the town.

Are you sure it's not Huntington? I know they have their own local buses, but if this wasn't that then I have no idea.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

19 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

Since when does North Hempstead have a bus service? Someone posted a photo of a blue Gillig owned by the town.

 

18 hours ago, OIG119 said:

Are you sure it's not Huntington? I know they have their own local buses, but if this wasn't that then I have no idea.

The town of North Hempstead actually does have a bus (Gillig Flow Floor), and has had it for a while now.  It's apparently for the seniors in the town, and IIRC it's for service to supermarkets and other places. I don't know of it's being used in service at the moment. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Q43LTD]

Anybody ready for the n6 to be crushloaded with Islander fans with that new arena by Belmont Park? 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Q43LTD

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Anybody ready for the n6 to be crushloaded with Islander fans with that new arena by Belmont Park? 

Don't see this phenomenon occurring; where would this influx of Islander fans come from, from along or around the n6?

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by B35 via Church

[trainfan22]

2 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Anybody ready for the n6 to be crushloaded with Islander fans with that new arena by Belmont Park? 

Totally different demographics. The average Islander fan wouldn't be caught dead on NICE Bus.

 

 

I do worry have excess traffic to and from the arena will ruin reliability on the N6.

[NewFlyer 230]

3 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Anybody ready for the n6 to be crushloaded with Islander fans with that new arena by Belmont Park? 

They are building a new Elmont Station on the Hempstead branch to handle those crowds. The n6 will be an afterthought for many unless you live nearby. 

[trainfan22]

On 8/1/2021 at 10:07 PM, NewFlyer 230 said:

How would you all rate NICE’s maintenance and service overall nowadays?

I never had a reason to be in Nassau County a few years back so I never experienced NICE at it’s worst, but I heard it was bad. I only started using NICE starting from September 2020 and so far my experience has been decent to my surprise. I haven’t experienced breakdowns and or missing runs, so it seems that they have gotten somewhat better compared to before. 
 

From what I recall breakdowns were a common thing even under Long Island Bus. I do certainly remember PinePower lol making his videos back then about how terrible LI Bus was. I know Nassau was being stingy back then so there was only so much the MTA could do. 

There's Youtubers getting NICE Bus NGs with alarms going off on a daily basis! Wild considering out of all the years I been riding MTA buses, only a handful of times I been on a bus with a noticeable mechanical problem. While NICE bus riders seem to be coming across buses with issues with relative ease.

 

 

I was an regular commuter on Green Lines in 2005, one of the final years before the MTA and the Orion OG hybrids came though for the takeover. Bus always showed up and got me from point A to point B, people claim Green Lines had bad maintenance but I never had an issue. NICE might be WORST than Green Lines supposedly was, Green Lines at the time had, GMC RTS, TMC RTS, MCI Classics and DC reject Orion V's. Nice bus has... NGs and XN40s lol. Maybe those RTS and Classics were more resilient to poor maintenance than these NGs and XN buses were. Simple buses built in the 80s and early 90s vs current day high tech buses.

Edited August 27, 2021 by trainfan22

[NewFlyer 230]

NICE bus has added service to a few of its routes for the Fall. 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Now

• n16Xpress service to NCC returns for the Fall semester.  n16X runs express from Hempstead Terminal to get you to class fast.  It makes stops at Hofstra (Oak Street) and on the NCC campus at the: Student Union, Campus Store and Endo Boulevard.   The n16 will only stop at Endo Boulevard on campus. 

• n16 in Rockville Centre:  We are listening!  Due to customer and community demand for our previous routing around Rockville Centre, we are restoring the stops along Park Avenue pulling into the RVC LIRR station

• n19, n78/79, n80 we've added more weekday trips. 
• n22X trips remain suspended
• n25 and n58 we've added earlier weekend service. 

 

 

My initial thoughts are I’m happy to see the n19 and n78/n79 getting back some of the trips they lost over the years, but I wonder why NICE still is holding off on the n22X when they restored the other X routes. 
 

I would love to see an n20X route one day possibly restoring the old Flushing to Hicksville route. I don’t like how the n20H and the n21 come from the East and both terminate at Great Neck. I would say at least have the n21 go to Flushing, because it going to Great Neck makes it redundant because the n20H already does that. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

14 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

NICE bus has added service to a few of its routes for the Fall. 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/Now

• n16Xpress service to NCC returns for the Fall semester.  n16X runs express from Hempstead Terminal to get you to class fast.  It makes stops at Hofstra (Oak Street) and on the NCC campus at the: Student Union, Campus Store and Endo Boulevard.   The n16 will only stop at Endo Boulevard on campus. 

• n16 in Rockville Centre:  We are listening!  Due to customer and community demand for our previous routing around Rockville Centre, we are restoring the stops along Park Avenue pulling into the RVC LIRR station

• n19, n78/79, n80 we've added more weekday trips. 
• n22X trips remain suspended
• n25 and n58 we've added earlier weekend service. 

 

 

My initial thoughts are I’m happy to see the n19 and n78/n79 getting back some of the trips they lost over the years, but I wonder why NICE still is holding off on the n22X when they restored the other X routes. 
 

I would love to see an n20X route one day possibly restoring the old Flushing to Hicksville route. I don’t like how the n20H and the n21 come from the East and both terminate at Great Neck. I would say at least have the n21 go to Flushing, because it going to Great Neck makes it redundant because the n20H already does that. 

There's a few other notable changes (mainly frequency) that are also occurring. Some are good...others, not so much

They've significantly reduced n4 service on weekdays, I mean take a look at the current schedule to the upcoming schedule. The n4 went from 5-10 minute headways during the AM rush to every 12-20 minutes. Midday service went from every 10-15 minutes to every 20 minutes. PM service went from every 7-8 minutes to every 12-13 minutes. In addition to all of this, n4X service was reduced as well.

The n6X on the other hand though, operates more than twice as frequent (service every 15 minutes instead of every 35 minutes in the PM rush). It also received more AM trips, but the spans were reduced in the AM. The n6 local looks like is getting more frequent evening service every day. 

n15 service now operates every 15 minutes between Hempstead and Long Beach instead of every 18 minutes during midday hours and Saturday daytime hours. Service after 9 PM is also more frequent on weekdays. Service ends later on Saturdays as well, and all evening buses on Sundays now operate all the way towards Roosevelt Field.

n22 service on Saturdays is being reduced from every 15 to every 20 minutes in the AM/PM rush west of Mineola, and every 30-45 minutes at during evening hours (instead of every 20-30 minutes). So during the AM/PM period between Mineola and Hicksville, service will operate every 40 minutes. Service ends later on Sundays. 

n40 midday service on weekdays will operate every 15 minutes instead of every 20 minutes, along with slightly more frequent early evening service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mtatransit]

N20G also runs every 20 minutes on Saturday instead of every 30 minutes. Still far cry from every 15 minutes pre-COVID.

On a side note, I'm glad NICE added later Sunday trips out of Hicksville

Edited September 3, 2021 by Mtatransit

[trainfan22]

Today I rode an XN60 on the N6X and the rear middle seats were flapping up and down. I think the mechanics access parts of the engine of the bus though the interior rather than the rear hood and didn't close it correctly.

 

 

I been on MCIs where diesel fumes and heat were leaking into the passenger cabin of the bus... not fun.

 

 

Anyway, saw a lot of Orions and XN40s but no Gilligs. I saw two of them parked side by side at Mineola a couple days ago. Gotta upload the picture.

[Lawrence St]

23 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Today I rode an XN60 on the N6X and the rear middle seats were flapping up and down. I think the mechanics access parts of the engine of the bus though the interior rather than the rear hood and didn't close it correctly.

 

 

I been on MCIs where diesel fumes and heat were leaking into the passenger cabin of the bus... not fun.

 

 

Anyway, saw a lot of Orions and XN40s but no Gilligs. I saw two of them parked side by side at Mineola a couple days ago. Gotta upload the picture.

NICE has artics???

[trainfan22]

20 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

NICE has artics???

Yeah, they had them for a few years now, only have a small amount, only have five buses and they only run during rush hour on the N6X. Google "Nice bus XN60" theres plenty of photos and videos on Youtube.

Edited September 5, 2021 by trainfan22

[User]

Could an XN40 clear an underpass that is marked as 10'6 in height?

[Orion Was Here]

3 hours ago, User said:

Could an XN40 clear an underpass that is marked as 10'6 in height?

It can't the bus is 11'2

[SevenEleven]

3 hours ago, User said:

Could an XN40 clear an underpass that is marked as 10'6 in height?

Depends on whether 10'6 is the absolute clearance or not. (If it's not, then it depends where the sign is posted and the physical attribute of the overpass)

[User]

3 hours ago, lil hershey said:

It can't the bus is 11'2

 

3 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

Depends on whether 10'6 is the absolute clearance or not. (If it's not, then it depends where the sign is posted and the physical attribute of the overpass)

Reason for the ask: I found this online (go to 1:02:05) - an XN40 makes it under the LIRR tracks in Massapequa Park which is not part of normal routing: 

 

[Cait Sith]

On 8/1/2021 at 3:42 PM, Lawrence St said:

Does anyone know why the county of Nassau continues to give TransDev the contract to operate NICE? They're maintenance is absolutely horrible to the point where buses keep breaking down every day (or catching on fire). 

Maintenance in Nassau County has been shit long before Transdev took over.....

Before NICE even took over, MTA sent V CNGs from Brooklyn & Queens to Long Island to get the Long Island Bus Orions ready for DOT approval. A bunch of LIB CNGs went to College Point, Spring Creek, ENY and Zerega to get worked on. Those buses might've only looked good on the outside, but everywhere else had other underlying problems.

As for buses catching on fire, that's not always a result of bad maintenance, other issues can occur such as overheating. Even with perfect maintenance, something can happen on a route along the way with xxxx bus on xxxx route.
 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Cait Sith