553 Bridgeton Posted April 11, 2012 Share #51 Posted April 11, 2012 Sad situation...... This idiot was told by the COPS not to follow the kid. Just because someone has a hoodie on doesnt mean your up to know good. To be honest when I have a hoodie on I do get looks from cops vs having no hoodie on and they drive right by. If your not a cop no shot was justifiable, unless your in a life and death situation. This guy was not in a life and death situation by a kid who had skittles and iced tea in his hand. They just brought that crap up because the poor kid is not here to defend himself. In any event 2nd degree murder for someone who shot a kid in cold blood doesnt sound right. Had i shot a kid in the same fashion and HAD A PREVIOUS CRIMINAL HISTORY it would be no question that I would have been charged with 1st degree. I bet any amount of money this idiot will be out in know time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted April 12, 2012 Share #52 Posted April 12, 2012 Yes, racism exists all over, but let's face it. Some places are more racist than others, hence my comments about Florida. Depending on which area in Florida it varies when it comes to racism. I live in Winter Park and it's a town that I'm better off at then compared to Orlando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share #53 Posted April 12, 2012 Depending on which area in Florida it varies when it comes to racism. I live in Winter Park and it's a town that I'm better off at then compared to Orlando. Don't forget (I never been to that part of the state)the Fla. Panhandle area,(Western region of the sunshine state near Alabama) including Panama City, Fla., Penscola, and Tallahasse in which the majority of Fla. White residents now lives (also going back to the Jim Crow days)has a reputation for being a hangout for White Racist groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2012 Share #54 Posted April 12, 2012 Sad situation...... This idiot was told by the COPS not to follow the kid. Just because someone has a hoodie on doesnt mean your up to know good. To be honest when I have a hoodie on I do get looks from cops vs having no hoodie on and they drive right by. If your not a cop no shot was justifiable, unless your in a life and death situation. This guy was not in a life and death situation by a kid who had skittles and iced tea in his hand. They just brought that crap up because the poor kid is not here to defend himself. In any event 2nd degree murder for someone who shot a kid in cold blood doesnt sound right. Had i shot a kid in the same fashion and HAD A PREVIOUS CRIMINAL HISTORY it would be no question that I would have been charged with 1st degree. I bet any amount of money this idiot will be out in know time. I agree with the charge actually. I don't think he went out that day looking to kill a black kid, BUT it was clear to me that his goal was to not let another one of "them" get away. He wanted to play cop and I think he confronted the kid and the kid (as anyone would've when approached by a total stranger and questioned and then followed) reacted perhaps in a way that he didn't expect him to and a confrontation occurred and he shot the kid. His level of racism was certainly up there, but not to the point that he went out looking to kill a black person. For that there would have to be evidence that he had planned this in advance and I don't it was planned, BUT it was with intent. Depending on which area in Florida it varies when it comes to racism. I live in Winter Park and it's a town that I'm better off at then compared to Orlando. Better off how? There are Latinos in Orlando... A Puerto Rican guy that I've done some jobs for lives down in Orlando there and I've never heard him complain of any racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted April 12, 2012 Share #55 Posted April 12, 2012 I think one lesson everyone can take away from this is that you should avoid a street fight at all costs, because you never know what your opponent is concealing, like Zimmerman was. Even if you have done nothing wrong and someone accosts you, your best option is to run away without engaging, like every good karate expert knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ MC Posted April 12, 2012 Share #56 Posted April 12, 2012 Better off how? There are Latinos in Orlando... A Puerto Rican guy that I've done some jobs for lives down in Orlando there and I've never heard him complain of any racism. I've run into absouletly no problems when it comes to racism or any other issues with Latinos in Orlando or where I currently live in Winter Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share #57 Posted April 12, 2012 I think one lesson everyone can take away from this is that you should avoid a street fight at all costs, because you never know what your opponent is concealing, like Zimmerman was. Even if you have done nothing wrong and someone accosts you, your best option is to run away without engaging, like every good karate expert knows. Agreed. Not to mention the media overlooking the most importance issue in this sad case(yes race is part of it but not the whole story as Rev. Al and some in the media portriats as)the excessive use of force aka being "trigger happy." In this case was the use of a gun needed for 'self defense' against a teen who is a person of color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 12, 2012 Share #58 Posted April 12, 2012 Going back to the part about the shooter being told to not follow the kid, I agree with everyone here that he was guilty because Zimmerman was told that by the cops, yet still followed the kid. So for that alone, the 'stand your ground' 'defense' was out the door. I'm not going to go on about why Holder has expressed interest in this case, but not the Fort Hood killer or his own Fast and Furious scandal. So I'll just end this by saying, Zimmerman will likely need solitary confinement, as I don't think his new prison neighbors will take kindly to him over the killing of a black kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted April 12, 2012 Share #59 Posted April 12, 2012 I agree with the charge actually. I don't think he went out that day looking to kill a black kid, BUT it was clear to me that his goal was to not let another one of "them" get away. He wanted to play cop and I think he confronted the kid and the kid (as anyone would've when approached by a total stranger and questioned and then followed) reacted perhaps in a way that he didn't expect him to and a confrontation occurred and he shot the kid. His level of racism was certainly up there, but not to the point that he went out looking to kill a black person. For that there would have to be evidence that he had planned this in advance and I don't it was planned, BUT it was with intent. All I was saying this cat had no business following the kid once the police said dont. If zimmermans parents wasnt a judge/court clerk this whole situation would have never got to this and i dare you to say likewise. Ive been in court for tickets and ive seen shit that aint right as to who you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted April 12, 2012 Share #60 Posted April 12, 2012 Going back to the part about the shooter being told to not follow the kid, I agree with everyone here that he was guilty because Zimmerman was told that by the cops, yet still followed the kid. So for that alone, the 'stand your ground' 'defense' was out the door I would not necessarily go that far. Remember, the 911 dispatcher is usually a civilian member of the police force, and generally can only advise you of what to do. Remember that lady who shot 2 home invaders that broke into her house? SHe asked the 911 dispatcher if she had permission to shoot the criminals (and she clearly had every right to do so), but the dispatcher did not have the authority to tell her it was ok to shoot them. I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. I am saying that ignoring the adivce of the 911 dispatcher is not, in and of itself, a reason to put him in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2012 Share #61 Posted April 12, 2012 Agreed. Not to mention the media overlooking the most importance issue in this sad case(yes race is part of it but not the whole story as Rev. Al and some in the media portriats as)the excessive use of force aka being "trigger happy." In this case was the use of a gun needed for 'self defense' against a teen who is a person of color? To be honest with you its not the whole race issue that irks me. It's the idea that someone can confront another person who is minding their business and then you go and follow them after being told not to and shoot them and claim self-defense as a way out. If this kind of act is okay, then we've got a serious problem on our hands because this can happen to anyone, regardless of color. All I was saying this cat had no business following the kid once the police said dont. If zimmermans parents wasnt a judge/court clerk this whole situation would have never got to this and i dare you to say likewise. Ive been in court for tickets and ive seen shit that aint right as to who you know. Well no question about that, but it would be hard to prove 1st degree murder in this case even with Zimmerman's history. That was my point. I've run into absouletly no problems when it comes to racism or any other issues with Latinos in Orlando or where I currently live in Winter Park. I was confused because I thought you were Latino? That isn't to say that Latino on Latino hate crimes don't occur (because I have heard of them (one being on Staten Island)), but I was thinking about Latino on black hate crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted April 12, 2012 Share #62 Posted April 12, 2012 So if a cop told you not to pursue the kid and you did anyway and you shot him in cold blood, you mean to tell me thats not a justifiable reason to throw your ass in prison? @via see thats the thing. The way how your criminal history works; if you have a criminal past and you get in some ish it plays a major role into your freedom and the diff between life and 10yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share #63 Posted April 12, 2012 Off topic for a second guys. On behalf on the mod. staff Congrats and a great job for keeping cool on this diffcult topic . It could have easily turned this into a flame war as i seen on regular newssites ie. NY Daily News, etc.. All of you have provided great comments on a very touchy topic that has divided our nation. Again keep it cool and congrats on the great job on commenting on this highly controversial news story/thread. Another proof why this is such as great site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 12, 2012 Share #64 Posted April 12, 2012 I would not necessarily go that far. Remember, the 911 dispatcher is usually a civilian member of the police force, and generally can only advise you of what to do. Remember that lady who shot 2 home invaders that broke into her house? SHe asked the 911 dispatcher if she had permission to shoot the criminals (and she clearly had every right to do so), but the dispatcher did not have the authority to tell her it was ok to shoot them. I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. I am saying that ignoring the adivce of the 911 dispatcher is not, in and of itself, a reason to put him in jail. I dunno, these are 2 different cases. For her, she was in her home and feared for her life from 2 thugs trying to break in. In Zimmerman's case, Martin was not approaching him and Zim should've minded his own business than to approach the kid which lead to the 'altercation' and the fatal shooting. Zim, imo, overstepped his bounds by approaching the kid and got into a fight that never should've happened. He is not a cop and should not have played 'vigilante'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 12, 2012 Share #65 Posted April 12, 2012 So if a cop told you not to pursue the kid and you did anyway and you shot him in cold blood, you mean to tell me thats not a justifiable reason to throw your ass in prison? Dude, you're missing the whole point. I'm saying that they don't have enough evidence to prove that it was 1st degree murder, hence why they charged him with 2nd degree murder because from what I've seen there is indeed enough evidence to create a strong case for that. For 1st degree murder you have to have proof that it was pre-meditated. There was definitely intent, but pre-meditation is much harder to prove. Since you strongly believe that it is 1st degree murder, tell me what evidence supports that?? Yeah, he followed him, but there is no proof that he planned on killing the kid from the start. There's the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share #66 Posted April 12, 2012 On my way home today before the 6pm press conference, the rumors was that Zimmerman was only going to get 1st degree manslaughter. I agree with Vg8, either that or the current charges of 2nd degree murder is apporiate for the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted April 12, 2012 Share #67 Posted April 12, 2012 n any event 2nd degree murder for someone who shot a kid in cold blood doesnt sound right. Had i shot a kid in the same fashion and HAD A PREVIOUS CRIMINAL HISTORY it would be no question that I would have been charged with 1st degree. I bet any amount of money this idiot will be out in know time. Unfortunately VG8 is right again here -- but I agree with everything you said in the post... Zimmerman deserves the absolute worst that comes up to him, that man is racist scum right there. All that said, 1st degree murder you have to prove that he was planning on killing Trayvon, and that's not what happened here. Doesn't matter how bad the murder, matters HOW the murder went down. Without a premeditated cause, they can't book him for 1st. 2nd degree is a pretty high charge though, luckily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted April 12, 2012 Share #68 Posted April 12, 2012 Dude, you're missing the whole point. I'm saying that they don't have enough evidence to prove that it was 1st degree murder, hence why they charged him with 2nd degree murder because from what I've seen there is indeed enough evidence to create a strong case for that. For 1st degree murder you have to have proof that it was pre-meditated. There was definitely intent, but pre-meditation is much harder to prove. Since you strongly believe that it is 1st degree murder, tell me what evidence supports that?? Yeah, he followed him, but there is no proof that he planned on killing the kid from the start. There's the issue. I get that. Either way this cat is going to get off easy. And this is where our legal system fails. Im not saying he planned it, but im saying if I had a criminal history and killed someone they would lock me up for a long time. A normal person that doesnt know anyone as zimmerman has family in the legal system changes the whole dynamics of this, which is what i cant stand. I hope im wrong about that but i know he'll probably get a lite sentence. As i said before my mom is a lawyer and there were times sentences have been "reduced" because that person had a family member in the legal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 12, 2012 Share #69 Posted April 12, 2012 That depends on where he's going to prison and if he'll be put in with the rest of the inmates or put in solitary confinement for his own safety. IF it's the former, then even a few years would be 'hell' if the inmates are looking for 'vengence'. IF the latter, then a few years would probably be too light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted April 12, 2012 Share #70 Posted April 12, 2012 I've been reading the posts while trying to be objective about the whole case and I think VG8 has expressed my thoughts in a nutshell. I think 'ol Georgie had a wannabe cop complex and carried out his actions as though he was a police officer. Neighborhood/community watch groups can be a good thing but those representing these groups have to screened better IMO. I've always been under the impression that these groups were the "eyes and ears" of a neighborhood and were only armed with radios, phones, flashlights, maybe whistles, but unarmed nevertheless. If the group wanted/needed armed security I thought they hired an agency that provided that type of service. Maybe different localities handle it another way, I don't know. If the shooter represented the watch group as an official member the group itself might be subject to a (civil) lawsuit. As was mentioned earlier I think my fellow posters handled this difficult situation in a civil,professional manner (better than some news outlets I might add) and for that I thank you. It's time to sit back and see how the justice system plays out. I just hope that people were listening to Trayvon's parents, and yes, Rev. Sharpton, and not the rabblerousers out there who represent no one, especially not the family's interests. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted April 12, 2012 Share #71 Posted April 12, 2012 Off topic for a second guys. On behalf on the mod. staff Congrats and a great job for keeping cool on this diffcult topic . It could have easily turned this into a flame war as i seen on regular newssites ie. NY Daily News, etc.. All of you have provided great comments on a very touchy topic that has divided our nation. Again keep it cool and congrats on the great job on commenting on this highly controversial news story/thread. Another proof why this is such as great site. I'd say the most surprising thing of all was MHV and Gabraldi finally agreed on something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted April 12, 2012 Share #72 Posted April 12, 2012 As expected, he showed no emotion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted April 13, 2012 Share #73 Posted April 13, 2012 I would not necessarily go that far. Remember, the 911 dispatcher is usually a civilian member of the police force, and generally can only advise you of what to do. Remember that lady who shot 2 home invaders that broke into her house? SHe asked the 911 dispatcher if she had permission to shoot the criminals (and she clearly had every right to do so), but the dispatcher did not have the authority to tell her it was ok to shoot them. I am not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. I am saying that ignoring the adivce of the 911 dispatcher is not, in and of itself, a reason to put him in jail. Well as far as I'm concerned that's the main reason why this kid is dead. If he wouldn't have followed the kid, this wouldn't have happened. I'm just looking at the facts. I've had some time to reflect on my past posts on this topic and I think I'm going to wait and see what the facts say, but just based on the fact that he pursued the kid, I don't see how he can claim stand your ground for the simple fact that he escalated the situation. If he claims that the kid attacked him, I think the natural argument would be that the kid was being pursued by a total stranger who he very well may have felt threatened by, so naturally he reacted. I actually recall years ago my second night in Florence. I had a terrible flight experience (plane almost crashed due to snow and turbulence) during my flight from Rome to Florence, so I finally made it to my place and crashed that night after a tiring serious of flights and train rides. Second night, I've finally gotten settled down and now I'm out and about getting familiar with my new neighborhood and this feeling comes over me that I am being followed. The guy looked somewhat familiar (looked like the agent I met at the real estate agency the previous night when I first arrived in Florence), but I wasn't sure, so I only had a few options... Try to lose this guy and hope that I do indeed lose him because I can run the risk of getting lost myself since I had never been to Italy before (though I did speak Italian), or be prepared to have to defend myself should this guy continue to follow me and confront me. I was especially concerned because I was on his turf and not my own since I was new there, so he had the upper hand as far as I was concerned. Now I don't know what happened, but I'm just putting myself in that situation and thinking about what I've heard so far. My question is just because he's part of a community watch, did he identify himself as such or did he just start questioning the kid or what happened for him to have to shoot the kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartaMarta Posted April 16, 2012 Share #74 Posted April 16, 2012 This was a murder. The kid went out and bought something from the 7eleven and was going back home. He just happened to have been wearing a hoodie in place where there is a neighborhood watch, which caused Zimmerman to take action by calling the police thinking Trayvon Martin was a suspicious person. However Mr. Zimmerman should of followed the dispatcher's orders by not doing anything and staying in his vehicle, but instead got out and got into a fight with this teen and then shot an unarmed teen. I know for a fact sodas and skittles are not capable of killing someone, so there is no way that was self defense. I'm also hearing Reverend Al will be in Florida too, so things are going to get very very interesting. This was just so well written all I can do is nod in agreement. Dude, you're missing the whole point. I'm saying that they don't have enough evidence to prove that it was 1st degree murder, hence why they charged him with 2nd degree murder because from what I've seen there is indeed enough evidence to create a strong case for that. For 1st degree murder you have to have proof that it was pre-meditated. There was definitely intent, but pre-meditation is much harder to prove. Since you strongly believe that it is 1st degree murder, tell me what evidence supports that?? Yeah, he followed him, but there is no proof that he planned on killing the kid from the start. There's the issue. I agree. I don't think he intended to kill him, but he did intend to get into some confrontation with him, whether it was him acting like the big bad watchdog bully and "scaring" the kid, or the unexpected physical tussle that ended in tragedy. No good can happen if you are armed and have an "agenda," wanting to be the police but aren't properly trained or certified to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share #75 Posted April 20, 2012 Just saw on CNN and Fox News website that today was George Zimmerman's hearing. And just saw that the judge has set a $150,000 bond for his release. While I am personally not sure of this case (whether Zimmerman was playing 'self defense" or was trigger happy killing Trayvon)IMO it's a joke that he released at all. There should be a law that anyone charged with any type of murder should never be released unless a trial finds him "Not Gulity." Bad job by this judge in Fla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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