Acela Express Posted March 21, 2012 Share #1 Posted March 21, 2012 Interesting facts -> http://www.apta.com/mc/bus/previous/2011/Presentations/LimitedStopService-S-Schwarcz.pdf It's funny this link appears now because I asked a friend about the B35's LTD service, and the paddle shows only 4 timepoints between Hegeman Avenue & Rockaway Avenue to 1st Avenue & 39th Street at the southern-end (vice-versa too). He also mentioned they did this on the B6LTD too, with 4 timepoints. I'm curious why they hadn't implemented this on routes such as the B41, B44 or B46. I find myself often holding before or at timepoints just so I'm not "reprimanded", especially on the B44 when traffic is lighter than normal (had to cruise between Gates Avenue to Fulton Street (timepoint), or between Fulton Street & Eastern Parkway (timepoint). But, also, keep in mind, by contract, we're to operate at 15mph. Ugh! lol But, it's good operations planning is looking into speeding up current LTD service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted March 21, 2012 Share #2 Posted March 21, 2012 O_O 15MPH ??? I'd like to see this 'contract'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted March 21, 2012 Share #3 Posted March 21, 2012 Glad they're actually trying to figure this stuff out, cause it's a huge waste to be stuck on a bus while the B/O is dragging the line, and I'm sure the B/O hates it too. Reasonable thing would just be trash the schedule system on heavy traffic routes and run it by headways. Of course, then there's a new problem if one op drives particularly slowly, but it's a step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted March 21, 2012 Share #4 Posted March 21, 2012 Yeah buses drive 18-22 MPH, but depending where you are (e.g. Staten Island), buses pull 50+ MPH on open road. Now THAT is how you operate a bus! Why is the speed limit for buses 20 MPH instead of the city speed limit? Maybe because buses are heavier thus taking their time to slow down to a stop in case of an accident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 21, 2012 Share #5 Posted March 21, 2012 Interesting facts -> http://www.apta.com/mc/bus/previous/2011/Presentations/LimitedStopService-S-Schwarcz.pdf It's funny this link appears now because I asked a friend about the B35's LTD service, and the paddle shows only 4 timepoints between Hegeman Avenue & Rockaway Avenue to 1st Avenue & 39th Street at the southern-end (vice-versa too). He also mentioned they did this on the B6LTD too, with 4 timepoints. I'm curious why they hadn't implemented this on routes such as the B41, B44 or B46. I find myself often holding before or at timepoints just so I'm not "reprimanded", especially on the B44 when traffic is lighter than normal (had to cruise between Gates Avenue to Fulton Street (timepoint), or between Fulton Street & Eastern Parkway (timepoint). But, also, keep in mind, by contract, we're to operate at 15mph. Ugh! lol But, it's good operations planning is looking into speeding up current LTD service. Agreed. As long as it's on high-frequency routes (where you don't have to wait more than 5 minutes at most for either a local or a limited), I don't see the problem with having the buses run ahead of schedule if traffic is light (especially if it's just the limiteds) I read that report a few days ago, and IIRC, they actually said the buses ran closer to schedule under this system rather than the current system. Yeah buses drive 18-22 MPH, but depending where you are (e.g. Staten Island), buses pull 50+ MPH on open road. Now THAT is how you operate a bus! Why is the speed limit for buses 20 MPH instead of the city speed limit? Maybe because buses are heavier thus taking their time to slow down to a stop in case of an accident? I assume you're referring to express buses right? Because I don't think a local bus driver would go 50 mph on a local street, where the limit is likely 30-35 mph. (I don't check the speedometer, but I have been on buses where I felt the B/O was going over the limit. Obviously, I'm not going to complain because I get to my destination faster. :tup: Still, I doubt a B/O would go 15 mph over the limit) And yes, that's why the limit is lower. I think there's some sort of rule that the speed limit for trucks and buses is 10 mph below the posted limit (so if you're on a highway and the speed limit is 50 mph, the B/O has to go 40 mph). I'm not sure if it's an official rule or what (like a rule that you need to follow to get your license) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted March 21, 2012 Well I'm sure you wouldn't be able to see the speedometer unless you're literally standing over the operator. And we're 'supposed' to operate at 15mph (not 20mph speed limit as LRG indicated). However, sometimes traffic conditions and scheduling won't allow us to stick and move as we like. You also have to understand safety concerns of 'speeding' with a bus in New York City traffic. Most times it can lead to accidents, which is why we're instructed to keep our 4 ft. from parked cars on the right, or even "getting fat" on the road as we operate. Remember, the lanes aren't made for buses. The idea of operating a bus, with MTA, is to keep a large clearance away from other vehicles on the road, as much as possible, thus straddling two lanes when possible. There's other techniques that allow safe operations at high speeds as well, but that's another story. And, by the way, the buses are scheduled on a headway system currently, but a new system would have dispatchers separate buses as needed to avoid bunching. The new system would need more dispatchers placed on high volume routes, such as the B46 where there's a standard post at the Williamsburg Bridge, Flushing Avenue, Eastern Parkway & Kings Plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted March 22, 2012 Share #7 Posted March 22, 2012 Keep in mind that the MTA is legally required to publish printed schedules, which is why relatively useless and unused schedules like the subway or SBS routes even exist. Somebody should change the law and get the MTA to save lots of $$$ printing and distributing, let alone the savings that can be accomplished with a headway-based schedule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted March 22, 2012 Share #8 Posted March 22, 2012 ...I assume you're referring to express buses right? Because I don't think a local bus driver would go 50 mph on a local street, where the limit is likely 30-35 mph. (I don't check the speedometer, but I have been on buses where I felt the B/O was going over the limit. Obviously, I'm not going to complain because I get to my destination faster. :tup: Still, I doubt a B/O would go 15 mph over the limit)... You'd be suprised... There's a few local buses that "sli[pped through the cracks" per se (not giving out numbers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted March 22, 2012 Share #9 Posted March 22, 2012 Keep in mind that the MTA is legally required to publish printed schedules, which is why relatively useless and unused schedules like the subway or SBS routes even exist. Somebody should change the law and get the MTA to save lots of $$$ printing and distributing, let alone the savings that can be accomplished with a headway-based schedule! I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 22, 2012 Share #10 Posted March 22, 2012 Keep in mind that the MTA is legally required to publish printed schedules, which is why relatively useless and unused schedules like the subway or SBS routes even exist. Somebody should change the law and get the MTA to save lots of $$$ printing and distributing, let alone the savings that can be accomplished with a headway-based schedule! Well, the thing is that you need a schedule for when the service doesn't run too frequently (so on the subway, it's every 20 minutes, and the +SBS+ routes run every 15-20 minutes towards the end of the day), and once you have to start publishing times for that, you might as well publish a whole schedule. But what they can do is print out fewer of them and also on routes that run frequently, say "every __ minutes until", but they already do that, to a certain extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'89 Liberty MCI Posted March 23, 2012 Share #11 Posted March 23, 2012 The lines that have only four time points on the bus operator paddles also have only four time points on the passenger schedules, at those same locations. See mta.info. The B44 has a time point at Eastern Pkwy? For the limited I thought the time points on the paddles were Plaza ("WAPLZ"?), Flushing ("LYNCH"), Fulton ("NAFST"), Empire ("NAEPR"), Church ("NACHA"), Newkirk ("NAAVD"), Flatbush ("NAFLA"), and I do not know the time points south of Junction. Are the local time points different from the limited time points on the B44? On the Bx1, 2 (when it had a LTD), and 41, the local time points are the same as the LTD time points. If Eastern Pkwy is a regular time point for the B44 local (not just for AM rush hour local trips that begin at Eastern, which are listed in the passenger schedules), then this is my first time hearing about a local that has a time point that its limited counterpart does not have. SBS routes also have very few time points on the passenger schedules, and I was told that the bus operator paddles have very few time points. Probably the same time points that are on the passenger schedules. Also I was told that they do not hold SBS buses at time points, as that would defeat the purpose of SBS. Unless of course one bus catches up with another bus. In that case, technically, the second one should fall back so that the passenger distribution is even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share #12 Posted March 23, 2012 The lines that have only four time points on the bus operator paddles also have only four time points on the passenger schedules, at those same locations. See mta.info. The B44 has a time point at Eastern Pkwy? For the limited I thought the time points on the paddles were Plaza ("WAPLZ"?), Flushing ("LYNCH"), Fulton ("NAFST"), Empire ("NAEPR"), Church ("NACHA"), Newkirk ("NAAVD"), Flatbush ("NAFLA"), and I do not know the time points south of Junction. Are the local time points different from the limited time points on the B44? On the Bx1, 2 (when it had a LTD), and 41, the local time points are the same as the LTD time points. If Eastern Pkwy is a regular time point for the B44 local (not just for AM rush hour local trips that begin at Eastern, which are listed in the passenger schedules), then this is my first time hearing about a local that has a time point that its limited counterpart does not have. The B44 Limited and Local have the same timepoints. Williamsburg Bridge - WSHPL (Short for Washington Plaza) Flushing Avenue - LYNCH Fulton Street - NAFST Eastern Parkway - NAEPK (Nostrand & Eastern Pkwy); NYEPK (NY Ave & Eastern Pkwy) Church Avenue - NACHA or NYCHA Avenue D / Newkirk Avenue - NAAVD or NYAVD Flatbush Junction - NAFLA Avenue U - NAAVU Shore Parkway & Knapp St - KSPKW Emmons & Nostrand Avenues - EMANA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted March 23, 2012 Share #13 Posted March 23, 2012 I thought it also had to do with the tires... I don't know about the buses in the city, but I looked at the NG CNG tires one day and noticed "MAX SPEED - 50 MPH" with a metric conversion under it. Is that the maximum speed the tires can go before ending up in danger of bursting the tire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'89 Liberty MCI Posted March 23, 2012 Share #14 Posted March 23, 2012 Thanks AE. Why would Eastern be a time point for the LTD if it does not stop there? I guess they mean St. John's Pl or they mean they want you to leave St. John's Pl a minute before you are supposed to pass Eastern or whatever. Weird. I knew the time points on New York had NY instead of NA, funny how I did not realize until just now that NYCHA also stands for New York City Housing Authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acela Express Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share #15 Posted March 23, 2012 Who knows, but that's how the schedule is setup. We don't necessarily have to stop there; we just can't cross the timepoint before what's specified on our paddles, that's all. But yeah, it's all about predicting what time to leave St. Johns Place -- it can be 3 minutes to the good, because you have the light at Lincoln Place and Eastern Parkway which are out-of-sync lights, causing you to wait your time at the lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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