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mark1447

Culver Line/Smith-9th Station Rehab Thread

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The MTA has delayed the reopening of the Smith-9th St. subway station - leaving straphangers fuming and local businesses fearing it could deal their bottom lines a fatal blow.

 

The Carroll Gardens F and G train station - also the closest stop for many in transit-starved Red Hook - has been closed for a major renovation project since last June, and was slated to reopen this month - but now MTA officials say it won’t be open until fall due to construction complications.

 

“I really might have to close my whole business down because of this,” said Abdul Zaokari, owner of 9th Street Luncheonette below the subway station, who has already scaled his opening hours back four hours. "I've asked MTA to give me a break since I pay them for my rent, but they don't listen. And even worse, they don't realize how many customers used to come here in the morning, for lunch and even for a quick dinner. I've lost 80 percent of those customers.

 

"I really don't know how my business can survive until November when they say the subway will be finished,” he said.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...8#ixzz1prWbhSBp

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The MTA has delayed the reopening of the Smith-9th St. subway station - leaving straphangers fuming and local businesses fearing it could deal their bottom lines a fatal blow.

 

The Carroll Gardens F and G train station - also the closest stop for many in transit-starved Red Hook - has been closed for a major renovation project since last June, and was slated to reopen this month - but now MTA officials say it won’t be open until fall due to construction complications.

 

“I really might have to close my whole business down because of this,” said Abdul Zaokari, owner of 9th Street Luncheonette below the subway station, who has already scaled his opening hours back four hours. "I've asked MTA to give me a break since I pay them for my rent, but they don't listen. And even worse, they don't realize how many customers used to come here in the morning, for lunch and even for a quick dinner. I've lost 80 percent of those customers.

 

"I really don't know how my business can survive until November when they say the subway will be finished,” he said.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/mta-delays-reopening-smith-9th-st-subway-station-fall-article-1.1048468#ixzz1prWbhSBp

 

This is typical (MTA). Why am I not suprized?

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They seem to be taking their sweet time finishing the work.

 

That's unfortunate--lots of people depend on that station.

 

The MTA hasn't even provided appropriate bus service to replace lost service.

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The last time I rode by it on the (F), it was in terrible condition. I thought that they were going to re-open it in the fall just from looking at the progress they had done. Seeing what they did to the Brighton Line, with the new switchboxes, Hi Def looking stations, I expect to see something phenomenal. They should look at replacing the concrete for the Viaduct while they are at it.

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Ok guys, tell me what you think about this. Sorry if this comes out to hard, but I do not want any crap or foaming replies for this question. You guys have all heard about the Culver Viaduct Rehabilitation. The project to restore the Viaduct that should be finished by the Fall of 2012. Anyways, let us cut to the Chase.

 

Tell me guys, what do you think about the restoration of the Express Service. They are fixing up the line to get rid of old outdated structures, but could they also be fixing it up to restore the Express Service that used to run on it back in the day?

 

Could they be putting the (F) back on its Express from Church Avenue, to Bergen Street, to Jay Street? It can't be for the (G), because it must go to the Crosstown Line from the Local tracks at Bergen Street on the Upper Level.

 

What do you think about an Express Service Restoration? Is it possible, or nowhere close. Tell me what you think.

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Guest Lance

As has been stated before, express service on the Culver line won't fly for a variety of reasons. The first of which is the limited space on the tracks in Manhattan for any type of local/express Culver service. Prior to the rerouting of the M-line, the V-line was a candidate for Culver Local service, running from Forest Hills to Church Av. With the popularity of the new orange M-line, the V-line ain't coming back. Secondly, there is a higher demand for local service on the Culver line, despite what a few residents using the line claim. Having the F-line run express and the G-line local will fly like a lead balloon. The other proposal of having alternating local and express F-trains is not ideal either since that would double the current headways. Having some other sort of local to express ratio will suffer the same fate as the time saved by using the express train will be nullified by having to wait for said express train.

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They are currently (Or are beginning to start to,) using the Culver Express track for testing CBTC.

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The only other thing they could do would be to extend the E to church Av., but then they would be abandoning the WTC platform.

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The only other thing they could do would be to extend the E to church Av., but then they would be abandoning the WTC platform.

 

I dunno, I mean E and G to Church Ave? Besides WTC gets extraordinary ridership during rush hours. Besides, if the E was sent down to Church Ave, it would be crowded as hell.

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As has been stated before, express service on the Culver line won't fly for a variety of reasons. The first of which is the limited space on the tracks in Manhattan for any type of local/express Culver service. Prior to the rerouting of the M-line, the V-line was a candidate for Culver Local service, running from Forest Hills to Church Av. With the popularity of the new orange M-line, the V-line ain't coming back. Secondly, there is a higher demand for local service on the Culver line, despite what a few residents using the line claim. Having the F-line run express and the G-line local will fly like a lead balloon. The other proposal of having alternating local and express F-trains is not ideal either since that would double the current headways. Having some other sort of local to express ratio will suffer the same fate as the time saved by using the express train will be nullified by having to wait for said express train.

 

 

I do not mean fully down Culver, read carefully. I said between Bergen Street and Church Avenue. It can't be that bad. I mean, is there really an extremely high demand that it is not possible to make the (F) go from Church Av, to 7th Av, to Bergen Street, the only stops it would be missing would be Fort Hamilton Parkway, Prospect Park, 4th Av, Smith St, and Carroll Street. The (G) would be easy transfer right across the platform.

 

The only problem that I would have with this is that the (G) would have quite some chaos laying up, with the (F) switching onto the Local and Express tracks, respectively.

 

I mean, why are they doing work on them for no reason then, wouldn't it be pointless? And yes they are doing work on them, I saw them replacing them around 4th Avenue when I was in NY on Spring Break.

 

They are currently (Or are beginning to start to,) using the Culver Express track for testing CBTC.

 

 

This would be very interesting to see. I know about what they are doing on the (L), so the Express tracks with this, interesting.

 

The only other thing they could do would be to extend the E to church Av., but then they would be abandoning the WTC platform.

 

 

Extending the (E) would be insane, and there is no way that the MTA would do this. It would be hell at Church Avenue for laying up. The (E) could have the option of going Express from when the tracks split at Bergen Street, but as CDTA said, the WTC station closing would be very costly for the (E), and I don't think Chambers Street can hold all of the (A)(C)(E) traffic. I proposed a long time ago that the (G) could run Express, but it can not because of the lack of switches.

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Guys, have a look at the Track Map.

 

 

The problem people have with the idea is skipping 4th Avenue. According to the track map, the (F) could go local to 4th and express from there to Bergen. The switches allow for that. The only problem is fixing the lower level platform at Begren St.

Edited by ThrexxBus

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I am really glad that the Smith and 9th St stations and 4th av stations are being rehabilitated....they really needed it, especially Smith 9th sts. Conditions at that station were pretty bad. An elevator was badly needed--this station is actually the higest elevated station in the city: People who see the station for the first time are shocked at how high it is. You can see the station when you are driving on the BQE--it is higher than the highway!

 

I saw pictures of the 4th AV station just after it was built, and it was sheer beauty.....hopefully it will be restored fully.

Opening up an exit on the other side of 4th av was great. 4th av can get a little dicey, to say the least, not to mention has a long light.

 

As for the express service, in all honesty I have mixed feelings. After Church Av (southbound) there isn't too much crowding. It starts picking up at Church AV and further north. Bergen and Carroll are not lightly used. 4th AV as well. Why skip them?

There is no "across the platform" transfer at Bergen. The express tracks are on a downstairs level. The express tracks then converge with the local tracks just before Jay St.

 

For the express to work, the lower level of Bergen st has to be rehabilitated. Service on the (G) has to run more frequently. The train also has to be extended past 4 cars.

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The MTA has delayed the reopening of the Smith-9th St. subway station - leaving straphangers fuming and local businesses fearing it could deal their bottom lines a fatal blow.

 

The Carroll Gardens F and G train station - also the closest stop for many in transit-starved Red Hook - has been closed for a major renovation project since last June, and was slated to reopen this month - but now MTA officials say it won’t be open until fall due to construction complications.

 

“I really might have to close my whole business down because of this,” said Abdul Zaokari, owner of 9th Street Luncheonette below the subway station, who has already scaled his opening hours back four hours. "I've asked MTA to give me a break since I pay them for my rent, but they don't listen. And even worse, they don't realize how many customers used to come here in the morning, for lunch and even for a quick dinner. I've lost 80 percent of those customers.

 

"I really don't know how my business can survive until November when they say the subway will be finished,” he said.

 

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...8#ixzz1prWbhSBp

 

I'm guessing this means no temporary downtown (G) Train platform this year.

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The problem people have with the idea is skipping 4th Avenue. According to the track map, the (F) could go local to 4th and express from there to Bergen. The switches allow for that. The only problem is fixing the lower level platform at Begren St.

 

I like the idea, but I was talking about the (F) going Express from Church. I can see what you are saying there, because there are usually a lot of passengers at 4th Avenue. Skipping Smith St, and Carroll Street seems pretty logical to me.

 

About Bergen Street being renovated, it can be easily fixed. All that needs to be done is some major cleaning. It was running in 2005, according to some pictures that I saw, and all that needs to be done is probably removing the large iron door that leads down to the platforms.

 

I really think that they are doing something with these Express tracks guys.

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I remember not long ago that a feasibility study was going to be done near the completion of the Culver Viaduct project to determine if F express service might be restored.

 

If F express service in Brooklyn, I believe that the plans that were proposed back in 1991 and 1995 may be considered again, those plans were:

 

Two F trains:

 

One F train (Church Av local) would operate local between Jay St and Church Av.

 

The other F train (Coney Island express) would operate express between Jay St and Church Av stopping at 7th Av and local south of Church Av.

 

The Rush Hour Kings Highway service would be eliminated.

 

Going to Manhattan in the morning that gets on the F local at both 15th St and Ft.Hamilton Pkwy, if these riders at these stops including 7th Av see the F express at 7th Av, those riders would switch to the F express at 7th Av which means that the Manhattan F local after 7th Av would get emptier and riders who board at 4th Av, Smith 9th St, Carroll St and Bergen St would get on a less crowded F local and prehaps riders would be able to gets seats.

 

Riders south of Church Av on the Coney Island F express would get a faster ride and F train riders south of Church Av that used to transfer to the Manhattan bound R train at 4th Av would now be able to use the new transfer connection to and from the R train at Jay St/Metrotech.

 

So what do you think about this. Post your comments.

I like.

There is already a thread on this.

Where?

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Guest Lance

I do not mean fully down Culver, read carefully. I said between Bergen Street and Church Avenue. It can't be that bad. I mean, is there really an extremely high demand that it is not possible to make the (F) go from Church Av, to 7th Av, to Bergen Street, the only stops it would be missing would be Fort Hamilton Parkway, Prospect Park, 4th Av, Smith St, and Carroll Street. The (G) would be easy transfer right across the platform.

 

I knew exactly what you were talking about when you said Culver express service - the section between Jay St-MetroTech and Church Av. My earlier commentary still holds true. And while the local stations are not among the highest used in the system, they do receive their fair share of patrons. It would be a disservice to them to have to take the G-train for local service or have to wait longer for an F-local train.

 

The only problem that I would have with this is that the (G) would have quite some chaos laying up, with the (F) switching onto the Local and Express tracks, respectively.

 

That's just one of the problems with the F-express and G-local setup. First and foremost would be the backtracking riders north of 7 Av would have to do to get to Sixth Avenue. Let's face it: the odds of them rehabbing the lower level of Bergen St for express service are even smaller than the Culver express coming back. With Bergen St as a local stop, you'd force local riders at 4 Av through Bergen St to backtrack to either 7 Av for F-express service, 4 Av-9 St for the R-train (to Jay St-MetroTech) or Hoyt-Schermerhorn for the A- or C-trains to Jay St. You're making someone's one-seat ride into a two- or three-seat one all for the idea of giving express riders a five-minute time savings.

 

Then there are the abysmal headways on the G-line and the fact that it runs 4-car sets (and I don't see either of those things changing any time soon). No one with half a brain will want to take the slow and short G-train, especially since it's not going where riders for the most part want to go.

 

I mean, why are they doing work on them for no reason then, wouldn't it be pointless? And yes they are doing work on them, I saw them replacing them around 4th Avenue when I was in NY on Spring Break.

 

Not every express track needs to be in active service. Look at the Sea Beach and West End express tracks for example. Outside of line reroutes, when was the last time you saw a D- or an N-express train? And by the way, I know they're doing work on the express tracks. That's why it's called the Culver Viaduct Rehabilitation. They're rehabbing that entire section of the line.

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The only need for the Culver express is to allow trains below Church av to bypass Park Slope. As for Bergen Beach lower level, there's no need to reopen it as: G is a local and not going to Manhattan and if people need to transfer from the local to express, they can do that at Jay St. Bergen beach needs to be fixed structurally, but I don't think there needs to be a renovation for the platform.

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It would be a disservice to them to have to take the G-train for local service or have to wait longer for an F-local train.

The call for (F) express service originally arose because of overcrowding. Splitting the (F) would work as an alternative to extending a (V) down there. There'd be only a half or two-thirds of the amount of service, but the Manhattan-bound trains would be roomy arriving into Park Slope—which is the desired goal.

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