metsfan Posted July 4, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 4, 2008 I was reading the 2008-2013 proposal..... which is now famous for mention of R179 subway cars. So what you might think... Well, i was reading the whole thing, and what interested me was at the bottom of page 156. The title of the paragraph reads "Penn station access". I hope they do this, because that trackage sees approximately 8-12 trains a day each way currently. Penn station's northern tracks which LIRR mostly uses, and sometimes amtrak or (NJT) have 3rd rail, but not the kind MNRR uses (one uses the top, the other uses the bottom), but if dual mode loco's were used, you could EASILY make penn station a terminus for trains along this route. But, that's not the end of it. It also proposes access from the east as well for trains using the new haven line. The fact that this appears in this proposal is both shocking & a welcome inclusion of the into the next phase of its role in the northeastern united states. The limited (relative to the possibilities) service of the LIRR and MNRR inside new york city will be a thing of the past, even allowing a backup plan in case either GCT or NYP has to close. I just hope the funding materializes in the amount that is required to flesh out, develop and implement all of these ideas & proposals. - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 4, 2008 Share #2 Posted July 4, 2008 Metro north's P32s are dual mode, but their not combable with that third rail in NYP. But the reason why metro north trains don't come into NYP is because there isnt enough room. NYP is at capitaty also where are you gonna laid up the metro north trains during the midday hours? Also metro north doesn't even have a ticket office, waiting area or anything like that. Also that draw brige between mantthan and the bronx only has one track on it. That would cause some delays right there. The M8s will be combable with the overhead voltage in NYP. So they can go in that station without any problems. But still this would be very hard to bring metro north trains. Not enough space in NYP. When ESA open those freed up slots in NYP will go to NJT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted July 4, 2008 Metro north's P32s are dual mode, but their not combable with that third rail in NYP. But the reason why metro north trains don't come into NYP is because there isnt enough room. NYP is at capitaty also where are you gonna laid up the metro north trains during the midday hours? Also metro north doesn't even have a ticket office, waiting area or anything like that. Also that draw brige between mantthan and the bronx only has one track on it. That would cause some delays right there. The M8s will be combable with the overhead voltage in NYP. So they can go in that station without any problems. But still this would be very hard to bring metro north trains. Not enough space in NYP. When ESA open those freed up slots in NYP will go to NJT. Well yes, it is crowded. Mid-day trains will chill up on the mainland with the other ones, or run around to GCT for cycle use GCT out and back. The bridge in question may be one track, however, it is barely used with only 16-24 trains per day total, plus if MNRR only operated 4 trains in each direction each day including weekends, you'd easily be able to move in and out between amtrak and LIRR and (NJT) trains. Also, the capacity at penn station is only an issue for trains crossing the hudson, much of the day sees 10-15 tracks empty. It has the capacity, it would use the empire connection tunnel, and going east are hardly any trains on weekends, whcih could be a boon for NH line riders if they want to get in and not ride amtrak, and switch to (NJT) for a ride to say... the :njc:? It is all possible right now with the current capacity at penn station. Also, construction of 2 yards for LIRR mid-day storage for ESA service could accommodate 2-3 MNRR trains per yard. Using google earth, and some other online resources i've figured that there is enough track capacity including those 2 new yards to hold double the current traffic in/out of manhattan. Completion of THE tunnel would obviously aide in this! - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted July 4, 2008 Share #4 Posted July 4, 2008 There's the issue about clearance too. LIRR trains cannot be more than 10 feet wide to enter NYP. I think MNCR trains are slightly wider, 10'4" I'm reading from something a year ago, because of step plates on the door floor that reduce the gap between platform and train. This is for the M7s though. I don't know how wide the M8s are going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted July 4, 2008 There's the issue about clearance too. LIRR trains cannot be more than 10 feet wide to enter NYP. I think MNCR trains are slightly wider, 10'4" I'm reading from something a year ago, because of step plates on the door floor that reduce the gap between platform and train. This is for the M7s though. I don't know how wide the M8s are going to be. Yea, i'm thinking they'd use the new cars. - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo M 201 Posted July 5, 2008 Share #6 Posted July 5, 2008 You can send at least a few runs into Penn, maybe Peak only. Just have one train down there at a time. Amtrak trains aren't frequent through there so you can easily send an MNRR train. Train goes in, and right back out. Maybe in AM, goes in service, deadheads back out really fast. In the PM, deadheads down, goes back in service really fast. Its possible. Just use a platform assigned to Amtrak, theres usually always one track open during the peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusOperator3319 Posted July 5, 2008 Share #7 Posted July 5, 2008 I believe East Side Access will free up room for MNR into NYP Station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted July 6, 2008 You can send at least a few runs into Penn, maybe Peak only. Just have one train down there at a time. Amtrak trains aren't frequent through there so you can easily send an MNRR train. Train goes in, and right back out. Maybe in AM, goes in service, deadheads back out really fast. In the PM, deadheads down, goes back in service really fast. Its possible. Just use a platform assigned to Amtrak, theres usually always one track open during the peak. I believe East Side Access will free up room for MNR into NYP Station If LIRR stops using 1 platform (2 tracks) when they open GCT service, MNRR would be able to have all day service. I will say, that if they do this, pressure will come off the lex for GCT MNRR access. There are people in the financial district who wanna take MNRR home. Have them go to penn station if they use the hudson line at the very least, if not both NH and hudson. Once THE tunnel and ESA and SAS are complete, (NJT), and amtrak will have so many more options. - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 6, 2008 Share #9 Posted July 6, 2008 Also NONE of metro north's equipment can run into NYP. Their M7As can't due to the diffent third rail used in NYP. And the P32's can't run in that station on diesel power. Same goes for the FL9's and P40's leased from amtrak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusOperator3319 Posted July 6, 2008 Share #10 Posted July 6, 2008 Also NONE of metro north's equipment can run into NYP. Their M7As can't due to the diffent third rail used in NYP. And the P32's can't run in that station on diesel power. Same goes for the FL9's and P40's leased from amtrak.Also while on this topic does anyone know the status of MNR going to the Meadowlands and the routing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted July 6, 2008 Also NONE of metro north's equipment can run into NYP. Their M7As can't due to the diffent third rail used in NYP. And the P32's can't run in that station on diesel power. Same goes for the FL9's and P40's leased from amtrak. They could easily put in cat/3rd rail loco on one end, 3rd rail only 3rd rail/diesel on the other end... or put a catenary only loco till the tunnel ends then let it sit on a siding waiting for the next train waiting to go to nyp. could buy 4 alp-44's for this, or something smaller! - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 6, 2008 Share #12 Posted July 6, 2008 They could easily put in cat/3rd rail loco on one end, 3rd rail only 3rd rail/diesel on the other end... or put a catenary only loco till the tunnel ends then let it sit on a siding waiting for the next train waiting to go to nyp. could buy 4 alp-44's for this, or something smaller! B) - Andy That would be too time conuming. Sometimes amtrak does that with their LD trains. Intsead of changing from the P42's to the P32's at albany. They send to P42's all the way down to NYP. But an AEM7 has to tow the train into NYP. The AEM7 has to go VERY slow to hook up with the LD train to tow it. Which takes a lot of time. Because if you try to do the hookup fast the locomotives could get damaged. I don't think commuters want to sit outside NYP for like 15 to 30 min waiting for an electic loco to tow them in lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted July 6, 2008 That would be too time conuming. Sometimes amtrak does that with their LD trains. Intsead of changing from the P42's to the P32's at albany. They send to P42's all the way down to NYP. But an AEM7 has to tow the train into NYP. The AEM7 has to go VERY slow to hook up with the LD train to tow it. Which takes a lot of time. Because if you try to do the hookup fast the locomotives could get damaged. I don't think commuters want to sit outside NYP for like 15 to 30 min waiting for an electic loco to tow them in lol. They could do it if the tracks were arranged to support a fast switch somewhere in the bronx or westchester. They could take 10 minutes or less if it was choreographed right. Just let the cars sit on battery power for a few minutes. Detach diesel, diesel pull out of the way, back the electric in, attach, then proceed as normal. Or, to speed it up even more, have the diesel be in push mode, back electric up, detach diesel, proceed!! B) B) - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusOperator3319 Posted July 6, 2008 Share #14 Posted July 6, 2008 MNR Plans on pulling into NYP next year for select NYG and NYJ games and then switching passengers over to a NJT shuttle this is via the NH Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted July 6, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted July 6, 2008 MNR Plans on pulling into NYP next year for select NYG and NYJ games and then switching passengers over to a NJT shuttle this is via the NH Line That would be even easier. - Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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