Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[LGA Link N Train]

4 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

Sure you could, but after the first few weeks who's going to enforce it anyway? And if you put in a bus lane in the local lane, either parking goes or cars will have to drive in the bus lane; it's more than just double parking and truck unloading.

DOT, or any authority organization that is good at enforcing laws maybe

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

On 3/11/2018 at 1:40 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The route I have here is one that will close some connectivity gaps, and will also serve some areas that are not currently served by any bus service (or any adequate service). Originally I had this route (dubbed the Q78) run between the Astoria Boulevard  station, and the Jackson Heights  station. There is an industrial portion along the route, before the BQE west turns onto Astoria Boulevard, that isn't served by any bus. The closest bus is the Q18 (in terms of displacement), but the streets are not continuous, and thus one would have to walk to 25th Avenue, and then go down to 30th Avenue to catch the Q18. Either that, or walk from the Q19. The original schedule was to run every 15-20 minutes from 4 AM to 9 AM (weekdays only) and from 2 PM to 6 PM (weekdays only), and every 30 minutes outside those times. The schedule span would be from 4 AM to 11 PM weekdays, 7:30 AM to 10 PM Saturdays, and 9:00 AM to 10 PM Sundays. My issue with that is that I don't know how many non-industrial workers would choose to ride a service like that, which would be a problem. 

I also felt that there should be a way to connect Queens and the Bronx without having to take the train into Manhattan for the Lex. Since this bus already has some highway segments, and would also generally be fast from Jackson Heights to the RFK bridge approach, I was thinking of sending the Q78 somewhere to the Bronx. I have two options in store for this Q78:

Option 1: The Hub (making LTD stops in The Bronx) via 138 Street and Willis Avenue

Option 2: Simpson Street   (making LTD stops in The Bronx via Southern Boulevard

The first option offers more connections, but the second option offers greater coverage. West Farms would have this route. The map link is listed below. Thoughts?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=16bGHLKMwO2K5EMEB8VXzfopdCIG0bK5h&ll=40.75214092702143%2C-73.89649064137768&z=16

 

While there does exist need to improve transportation between The Bronx and Queens, this proposal will more than likely carry air. A derivative of the Q44–SBS in The Bronx might be a better option.

[B35 via Church]

24 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

Not true. There is mucho passenger traffic from Hazen St. on west to the Ditmars station. At Hazen, Ditmars and Astoria Blvds. diverge going west, so Astoria Blvd. becomes too far a walk for many.  Also, even east of Hazen, the Q19 has sparse service, and is impossible to use eastbound east of 49th St. since the Parkway blocks it from the neighborhood. Also, the Q69 has only one stop between the airport and Steinway St.

Hazen st. isn't in Jackson Heights; I'm not talking about that riderbase.....

I'm talking about that area where the Q69 terminates at.... Yes service on the Q19 is sparse, but Jackson Heights folks over there are not taking Q69's over Q19's & M60's.... They just aren't.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

19 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

While there does exist need to improve transportation between The Bronx and Queens, this proposal will more than likely carry air. A derivative of the Q44–SBS in The Bronx might be a better option.

You're responding to my (original) proposal, which has since been revised.

I'm not worried about the Q44-ish route, because that's not the market I'm trying to address. Eastern Queens is generally covered, but I believe that there is alsodemand for Western Queens to South Bronx travel, which currently is a trip on the to the Lex Ave Line. People already do that, and it's not the most convenient option. From certain places such as Northern Boulevard station, or Steinway, getting to parts of the South Bronx would be much quicker than making several transfers to a bunch of unreliable/overcrowded trains.

 

[Orion6025]

56 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

DOT, or any authority organization that is good at enforcing laws maybe

After the first few months of the law's existence, they don't care about it anymore. Unless some shakeup happens, they're not good candidates to enforce any  bus lanes..

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

You're responding to my (original) proposal, which has since been revised.

I'm not worried about the Q44-ish route, because that's not the market I'm trying to address. Eastern Queens is generally covered, but I believe that there is alsodemand for Western Queens to South Bronx travel, which currently is a trip on the to the Lex Ave Line. People already do that, and it's not the most convenient option. From certain places such as Northern Boulevard station, or Steinway, getting to parts of the South Bronx would be much quicker than making several transfers to a bunch of unreliable/overcrowded trains.

 

While you may not be concerned with public transportation between Eastern Queens and The Bronx, there exists others who are. The reason as to why is because the subway is virtually nonexistent in Eastern Queens compared to that of Western Queens. In Astoria, you have access to the and , which easily get you to the Lexington Avenue–59th Street Station where you can transfer to either the , , or to The Bronx. Similarly, in Jackson Heights, you have access to the , which takes approximately 20 minutes and some change to get you to the Grand Central–42nd Street Station. You argue that, "People already do that, and it's not the most convenient option," but those that live in Eastern Queens have it much worse! You're only options are to take the subway into Manhattan, the Q44–SBS, or the Q50 from Flushing. Let's say you live on 188th Street/Union Turnpike and want to get to the 3rd Avenue–149th Street Station. You can take the Q17 to Flushing, transfer to the Q44–SBS, and then make another transfer to the or at the East 180th Street Station or take the Q46 to the Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike Station, transfer to the , followed by the at the 51st Street Station, and then finally to the at the 59th Street Station. Now do you realize how much work and how long that'll take for someone who lives in Eastern Queens? Folks out in Western Queens have it much easier if they need to get to The Bronx as they're much closer to both the subway and Manhattan. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by AlgorithmOfTruth

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

55 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

While you may not be concerned with public transportation between Eastern Queens and The Bronx, there exists others who are. The reason as to why is because the subway is virtually nonexistent in Eastern Queens compared to that of Western Queens. In Astoria, you have access to the and , which easily get you to the Lexington Avenue–59th Street Station where you can transfer to either the , , or to The Bronx. Similarly, in Jackson Heights, you have access to the , which takes approximately 20 minutes and some change to get you to the Grand Central–42nd Street Station. You argue that, "People already do that, and it's not the most convenient option," but those that live in Eastern Queens have it much worse! You're only options are to take the subway into Manhattan, the Q44–SBS, or the Q50 from Flushing. Let's say you live on 188th Street/Union Turnpike and want to get to the 3rd Avenue–149th Street Station. You can take the Q17 to Flushing, transfer to the Q44–SBS, and then make another transfer to the or at the East 180th Street Station or take the Q46 to the Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike Station, transfer to the , followed by the at the 51st Street Station, and then finally to the at the 59th Street Station. Now do you realize how much work and how long that'll take for someone who lives in Eastern Queens? Folks out in Western Queens have it much easier if they need to get to The Bronx as they're much closer to both the subway and Manhattan. 

I never said I'm not concerned about service overall, just that with respect to my proposal, that is not being addressed. You're bringing something that was not related to the OP. I can briefly address it though:

Connectivity is nice, but connecting points is not always going to help. Who in Fresh Meadows (and the rest of Northeast Queens) is going to the South Bronx on a regular basis, if at all? The only parts said people would likely be hitting is the areas along the Q50 and maybe Morris Park. Maybe expanded Q50 service should be looked into?

The South Bronx and (Western/Central Queens) have more of a similarity. Their demographics are more similar, and there are more people than you think who transfer to the Lex at 51st or 59th. People in those areas who work in The Bronx or visit family in The Bronx (and vice versa) would benefit a lot. You make it seem like it's so easy to get on the and then transfer to the overburdened Lexington Avenue subway. I don't expect this bus route to be the holy grail that will reduce overcrowding, but there is a significant amount of riders who may not need to really use the Lex, if other options were available. 

[Italianstallion]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:10 PM, B35 via Church said:

Hazen st. isn't in Jackson Heights; I'm not talking about that riderbase.....

I'm talking about that area where the Q69 terminates at.... Yes service on the Q19 is sparse, but Jackson Heights folks over there are not taking Q69's over Q19's & M60's.... They just aren't.

I know where Hazen is, I grew up a block away. You say you are not talking about those folks, but you want to send the Q69, which many people between Hazen and Steinway use, south on Steinway instead of continuing to Ditmars station. That would hurt a lot of riders.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Italianstallion said:

I know where Hazen is, I grew up a block away. You say you are not talking about those folks, but you want to send the Q69, which many people between Hazen and Steinway use, south on Steinway instead of continuing to Ditmars station. That would hurt a lot of riders.

Yes, because I have an issue with the Q69 running to Jackson Heights.... The Q69 is sluggish enough along 21st.

[LGA Link N Train]

Here's a proposal. 

Improve the Q24 by adjusting the schedule so that it runs every 2-5 minutes everyday. An additional option is adding bus lanes and. Making it SBS or a BRT. 

[Orion6025]

22 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

Here's a proposal. 

Improve the Q24 by adjusting the schedule so that it runs every 2-5 minutes everyday. An additional option is adding bus lanes and. Making it SBS or a BRT. 

Is there ridership to justify such high frequencies, let alone an SBS service? Maybe some form of rush hour limited service and a small headway bump is reasonable but 

a.) You're going to need a lot of garage space and buses in general to get those headways on a bus as long as the q24

b.) Assuming traffic and backups in general remain prevalent, the headways won't mean much when you have three buses bunched together and then a 15 minute wait for another gaggle of Q24s

c.) What's the point? I can agree with shorter headways to help spur new ridership but the issue with the route seems to be reliability. You need dispatchers out on the road enforcing the schedule by keeping bus drivers accountable for their own schedules (Ex. Not playing hooky), perhaps the use of short turns to prevent over-bunching and to serve heavier parts of the line more efficently, and also people along the line to help mitigate crush-loads and sudden large gaps in service.

I'd say management of the line is the solution, not so much putting the line on steroids.

[officiallyliam]

This is a set of proposals, rather than a single one pertaining to a single route. Many Queens bus routes suffer from unreliability, and many bus journeys across Queens are long and slow; a large part of this has to do with the nature of many routes. While much of Queens does have a grid system of roads, a lot of the bus routes are windy and serve multiple roles in the grid. An example of this would be the Q27, which incorporates one segment along 46th Avenue and another along Springfield Blvd, making the route one of the longest in the city, and, consequently, one of the most unreliable. The goal of this proposal - I am calling it bus rationalization - is to make the Queens bus network more decipherable, by keeping bus routes to one corridor, streamlining windy routes, and splitting up routes that are excessively long. However, I don't profess to be an expert on the workings of buses in the entire borough (outside of my frequented areas) and appreciate feedback on the proposals. Here is a synopsis of the changes; a map will be linked below:

• The Q27 splits into two routes: the Q27 between Flushing and QCC via 46th Avenue, and the Q14 between Bay Terrace and Rochdale via Springfield and Baisley Blvds.
• The Q88 will be combined with the eastern portion of the Q30, running between Queens Center and Little Neck via the LIE.
• In place of the Q88, the Q64 will be extended via 73rd Avenue to Springfield Blvd.
• The Q36 will be rerouted to serve the Floral Park railroad station, where it will terminate.
• Q76 and Q77 routes will be combined to create a Francis Lewis Blvd crosstown route.
• The Q47 will be rerouted via Grand Avenue, Broadway, and 82nd Street to LGA; the Q33 will switch to 74th Street and take over the Jackson Heights-GCP part of the Q47.
• Q18 buses will run from the Metro station, via 69th, to Broadway, ending at Vernon Blvd in Astoria.
• The Metro section of the B24 will combine with the Q104, rerouted to 30th Avenue in place of the Q18.
• The Greenpoint section of the B24 will be extended via Roosevelt to 74th & Broadway, redesignated as Q51.
• The Q38 will split: Q38 via Eliot to Queens Center; Q45 to 108th Street via Penelope and 63rd.
• Q67 service will run from Hunters Point South to Queens Center via Borden and 57th Avenues.
• The Q23 will straighten through Forest Hills.

I understand that some of these break up the hub-and-spoke model used to bring people to the subway in Flushing and Jamaica. My rationale is that people can use railroad service as an alternative when the Freedom Ticket starts being rolled out, which should include transfers to local bus service. As well as this, I propose that the right-of-way under the through Ridgewood be used as a busway to straighten the windy routes of the Q58 and B13 through Ridgewood, and to extend the Eliot Q38 to Ridgewood Terminal.

Now, though, I want to hear input from those with more experience on some of these routes. What are rider patterns like? What are road conditions like on some of the roads that don't currently see bus service, but would under this plan? And based on such factors, what changes should be made to the above; alternatively, what other routes could be rationalized or streamlined? I want to develop this proposal, but unfortunately don't have the time to ride all of these routes myself.

Map link is here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1qQxuRWE4pwdHN2_9Wi1omrUvchaLUYGH&ll=40.744951597445414%2C-73.82880094387207&z=13

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

• The Q27 splits into two routes: the Q27 between Flushing and QCC via 46th Avenue, and the Q14 between Bay Terrace and Rochdale via Springfield and Baisley Blvds.
• The Q88 will be combined with the eastern portion of the Q30, running between Queens Center and Little Neck via the LIE.
• In place of the Q88, the Q64 will be extended via 73rd Avenue to Springfield Blvd.
• The Q36 will be rerouted to serve the Floral Park railroad station, where it will terminate.
• Q76 and Q77 routes will be combined to create a Francis Lewis Blvd crosstown route.
• The Q47 will be rerouted via Grand Avenue, Broadway, and 82nd Street to LGA; the Q33 will switch to 74th Street and take over the Jackson Heights-GCP part of the Q47.
• Q18 buses will run from the Metro station, via 69th, to Broadway, ending at Vernon Blvd in Astoria.
• The Metro section of the B24 will combine with the Q104, rerouted to 30th Avenue in place of the Q18.
• The Greenpoint section of the B24 will be extended via Roosevelt to 74th & Broadway, redesignated as Q51.
• The Q38 will split: Q38 via Eliot to Queens Center; Q45 to 108th Street via Penelope and 63rd.
• Q67 service will run from Hunters Point South to Queens Center via Borden and 57th Avenues.
• The Q23 will straighten through Forest Hills.

IMap link is here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1qQxuRWE4pwdHN2_9Wi1omrUvchaLUYGH&ll=40.744951597445414%2C-73.82880094387207&z=13

 

Questions:

 

Q23... Would the Forest Hills Gardens folks allow buses on the private section of Continental Avenue?

Q27... Where would it end on weekends when the QCC off-street stop is closed? 

Q64... How would it turn around at 73rd Av & Springfield? 

[officiallyliam]

7 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Questions:

 

Q23... Would the Forest Hills Gardens folks allow buses on the private section of Continental Avenue?

Q27... Where would it end on weekends when the QCC off-street stop is closed? 

Q64... How would it turn around at 73rd Av & Springfield? 

Q23 - Yeah, I wondered about that. Is that the reason for the Q23's route today? Does the private section start at Metropolitan, or further north? (I can't remember). The 23 already uses Continental between Metro and Kessel Street; I'm not sure if that's a private section.

Q27 - It could turn like this: Springfield > 56th > 223rd > 58th > then back to Springfield. Or would it be possible to have the gate open?

Q64: I was thinking 73rd > Springfield > 67th > Bell > and back to 73rd.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

29 minutes ago, officiallyliam said:

This is a set of proposals, rather than a single one pertaining to a single route. Many Queens bus routes suffer from unreliability, and many bus journeys across Queens are long and slow; a large part of this has to do with the nature of many routes. While much of Queens does have a grid system of roads, a lot of the bus routes are windy and serve multiple roles in the grid. An example of this would be the Q27, which incorporates one segment along 46th Avenue and another along Springfield Blvd, making the route one of the longest in the city, and, consequently, one of the most unreliable. The goal of this proposal - I am calling it bus rationalization - is to make the Queens bus network more decipherable, by keeping bus routes to one corridor, streamlining windy routes, and splitting up routes that are excessively long. However, I don't profess to be an expert on the workings of buses in the entire borough (outside of my frequented areas) and appreciate feedback on the proposals. Here is a synopsis of the changes; a map will be linked below:

• The Q27 splits into two routes: the Q27 between Flushing and QCC via 46th Avenue, and the Q14 between Bay Terrace and Rochdale via Springfield and Baisley Blvds.
• The Q88 will be combined with the eastern portion of the Q30, running between Queens Center and Little Neck via the LIE.
• In place of the Q88, the Q64 will be extended via 73rd Avenue to Springfield Blvd.
• The Q36 will be rerouted to serve the Floral Park railroad station, where it will terminate.
• Q76 and Q77 routes will be combined to create a Francis Lewis Blvd crosstown route.
• The Q47 will be rerouted via Grand Avenue, Broadway, and 82nd Street to LGA; the Q33 will switch to 74th Street and take over the Jackson Heights-GCP part of the Q47.
• Q18 buses will run from the Metro station, via 69th, to Broadway, ending at Vernon Blvd in Astoria.
• The Metro section of the B24 will combine with the Q104, rerouted to 30th Avenue in place of the Q18.
• The Greenpoint section of the B24 will be extended via Roosevelt to 74th & Broadway, redesignated as Q51.
• The Q38 will split: Q38 via Eliot to Queens Center; Q45 to 108th Street via Penelope and 63rd.
• Q67 service will run from Hunters Point South to Queens Center via Borden and 57th Avenues.
• The Q23 will straighten through Forest Hills.

I understand that some of these break up the hub-and-spoke model used to bring people to the subway in Flushing and Jamaica. My rationale is that people can use railroad service as an alternative when the Freedom Ticket starts being rolled out, which should include transfers to local bus service. As well as this, I propose that the right-of-way under the through Ridgewood be used as a busway to straighten the windy routes of the Q58 and B13 through Ridgewood, and to extend the Eliot Q38 to Ridgewood Terminal.

Now, though, I want to hear input from those with more experience on some of these routes. What are rider patterns like? What are road conditions like on some of the roads that don't currently see bus service, but would under this plan? And based on such factors, what changes should be made to the above; alternatively, what other routes could be rationalized or streamlined? I want to develop this proposal, but unfortunately don't have the time to ride all of these routes myself.

Map link is here: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1qQxuRWE4pwdHN2_9Wi1omrUvchaLUYGH&ll=40.744951597445414%2C-73.82880094387207&z=13

 

Q27: There are still sizable amounts of people south of HHE getting on, towards Flushing. You can have a Bay Terrace to Rochdale route, but I would not split the Q27 for that.

Q64/Q88: I fail to see exactly what the Q88 to Little Neck solves. I wouldn't involve the Q64 with this either. Additionally, this would be such a huge disservice to the Utopia Parkway corridor. The Q31 is not frequent enough, nor does it operate late enough to match Q30 service levels. 

Q36: Such a proposal would likely receive the same fate as the former n2 and Q79 proposed extensions

Q76/Q77: This would without a doubt destroy ridership on both lines. Now there's no subway connection. Relatively few are really going north to south of Hillside. Keep in mind that Francis Lewis Boulevard north of Union Turnpike is different in ridership base and ridership levels compared than Francis Lewis Boulevard south of Hillside Avenue. I can't speak for the Q77 when I say this, but for the Q76, most of the ridership tends to be concentrated near Hillside Avenue. Most of those riders are using the bus for the  , or just to get to Jamaica. This is especially true on weekends. Ridership north of Union Turnpike tends to be somewhat low, especially north of Northern Boulevard. Folks in Whitestone will still continue gunning for buses going to Flushing or Jamaica

Q47: As a rider of this route, the ridership base would be too narrow. This messes up the commute of so many (current) Q33 riders as well. With both, the QBL express connection is lost. In the case of the current Q33, there would be no QBL connection at all. What exactly are they suppose to do now, hop on the already overcrowded (7). Subway service is crowded in Queens, but shifting people from the QBL to Flushing would not help. If you keep the current Q47 headways on weekends, those 82nd/83 Street riders just lost a good portion of bus service.

On the Q47 portion south of Roosevelt, you lose so two core stops where ridership on the current Q47 south of Roosevelt comes from: 69 Street & 50 Avenue, and 69 Street & 52 Avenue. The lines are insane in the rush hour, and people are usually left behind. You leave them with only the Q18, which not only takes longer to get to the QBL, but you drop them off at a local stop.

Q18: The Q18 gets ridership from the 69 Street portion, and just consolidating service with the Q47 just creates more problem than solve. Also, vehemently disagree with sending the Q18 south of 69 Street via the Q67. See my Q67 comments.

Q51: Don't see this working. It duplicates the Q32 too much. The Q32 just needs to operate on time more, but that's a pipe dream, I guess. I don't see Woodside and Jackson Heights residents gunning for Greenpoint.

Q38: So far, this is the only proposal in which I can somewhat agree with. The only thing wrong with this is: Where'd the 57th Avenue portion go?  LeFrak City is very dependant on the Q38. 

Q67: Middle Village, regardless of it's apparent location to Manhattan, is hard to get to/from Manhattan. There are a few riding patterns during different times of the day, which also overlap. This explains the somewhat abnormal schedules and headways on the route, which would all be affected as a result of your decision to route buses off 69 Street. The first rider base are Middle Village and Maspeth residents, trying to get to LIC to catch the (e) (m) (r) or  . All the other routes the Q67 crosses require a backtrack to get to Manhattan, wo their commutes are getting longer than they should. In addition, the connection to Court Square and Queens Plaza is severed. 

The second rider base are the industrial employees from Maspeth, which ride to the  in Middle Village to get to Brooklyn. Some can make their way to the Q39, but for most that's just too far away, unless you branch the Q39 in Maspeth (one branch goes via 48 Street & 55 Avenue, while the other goes via Laurel Hill Boulevard & 58 Street). 

57th Avenue may be far from a bus, but I don't know if one is really needed to get to the subway. 

Q23: You might as well discontinue the whole route south of 71st Avenue while you're at it. Not to mention you just created a transit gap in that area.

 

OVERALL: 

You list your justifications for the changes, and I cannot agree with this. As was said in the other railroad thread, the LIRR should not be used to cover what the subway fails to cover. The LIRR is not the subway, and attempting to force people onto the LIRR is rather foolish. 

In almost all these proposal, the routes would much better be left untouched. You really need to go out and ride these routes, because these proposal clearly show that these proposals were chosen just by looking at the map and choosing random lines or points. Straight routes are also not always good. Your attempts to reduce the amount of turns on bus routes also tends to wipe away the ridership, which is not the end goal. This is not Manhattan, where you can usually get away with running like that. The outer boroughs are a different animal. 

Also, another thing you need to understand is, disrupting the hub and spoke models in Flushing and Jamaica by routing buses away from those areas doesn't help people who are trying to get to locations in Flushing and Jamaica proper. There are many people who go to Flushing or Jamaica in order to shop, work, or connect to other buses. Not everybody is gunning for the train (although that varies by route, too). 

[Eric B]

8 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Q23: You might as well discontinue the whole route south of 71st Avenue while you're at it. Not to mention you just created a transit gap in that area.

10 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

Q23 - Yeah, I wondered about that. Is that the reason for the Q23's route today? Does the private section start at Metropolitan, or further north? (I can't remember). The 23 already uses Continental between Metro and Kessel Street; I'm not sure if that's a private section.

Q27 - It could turn like this: Springfield > 56th > 223rd > 58th > then back to Springfield. Or would it be possible to have the gate open?

Q64: I was thinking 73rd > Springfield > 67th > Bell > and back to 73rd.

 

The private section is Austin to Harrow St. 

I wonder then if they could get away with replacing the Q23 through that section with a van service, that could go straight. The way it has to wind all around to get to Metropolitan is ridiculous.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

11 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

Q23 - Yeah, I wondered about that. Is that the reason for the Q23's route today? Does the private section start at Metropolitan, or further north? (I can't remember). The 23 already uses Continental between Metro and Kessel Street; I'm not sure if that's a private section.

Q27 - It could turn like this: Springfield > 56th > 223rd > 58th > then back to Springfield. Or would it be possible to have the gate open?

Q64: I was thinking 73rd > Springfield > 67th > Bell > and back to 73rd.

 

Q23... The private section of 71/Continental is from immediately south of the LIR station to the brick arch mid-block between Groton and Harrow Streets. It's officially called "Continental Avenue" and has non-standard street name signs. Between Station Square and Queens Blvd, it's a public street co-named Continental Avenue and 71st Avenue. From the arch south to Metropolitan, and from Queens Blvd to the Grand Central Parkway, it's called 71st Avenue (no co-naming) with NYCDOT standard signs.

 

Q27...  Since you're using the Q30's turnaround loop outside of QCC operating hours, you might as well swap the Q27 and Q30 terminals. Q30 (weekdays only) uses the off-street stop and Q27 (all times) loops around Cardozo High School. 

 

Q64... Might as well follow the old Q75 route:  left Springfield, right 69th Avenue, left 230th Street, to 67th Avenue. Return via left 67th Avenue, left Cloverdale, right 69th Avenue, left Springfield, right 73rd Avenue.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Gotham Bus Co.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

3 hours ago, Eric B said:

The private section is Austin to Harrow St. 

I wonder then if they could get away with replacing the Q23 through that section with a van service, that could go straight. The way it has to wind all around to get to Metropolitan is ridiculous.

If it doesn't then you lose the ridership that comes from that area. The Q23 doesn't wind through that area for nothing. Part of it also has to do with the LIRR tracks, but for the most part, the closer you get to 71st Avenue, the less people are actually considering the bus. At least on 69 Avenue, you're somewhat in between, and people can get to it easily, especially for seniors. The Q23 also serves some schools along the way that would lose access to bus service if the service was rerouted down 71st Avenue.

IDK Crescent Apartment residents' public transportation usage, but they are not using the Q23 in masses. SB Q23 buses (even with the faster routing towards Union Turnpike) usually empty out at Metropolitan Avenue (if there are people there on the bus). NB buses just don't pick up much of anyone from Crescent Apartments. 

Like I said before, some routes do wind through neighborhoods for a reason.

Edited April 22, 2018 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

For whoever it was that suggested that Center blvd. out in Hunters point have some route diverted/extended to serve that area, forget it..... They have a shuttle bus (which is certainly news to me)....

I was waiting for the 1pm trip on the B32 back towards WBP earlier... Before the B32 arrived, a whitish-grey minibus wrapped in a diagram of the immediate area w/ the hashtag #centerblvd on it pulled up at the Q67 stop.... I counted 18 people got off.... This is on a sunday afternoon.

[B35 via Church]

14 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

OVERALL: 

 

You list your justifications for the changes, and I cannot agree with this. As was said in the other railroad thread, the LIRR should not be used to cover what the subway fails to cover. The LIRR is not the subway, and attempting to force people onto the LIRR is rather foolish. 

In almost all these proposal, the routes would much better be left untouched. You really need to go out and ride these routes, because these proposal clearly show that these proposals were chosen just by looking at the map and choosing random lines or points. Straight routes are also not always good. Your attempts to reduce the amount of turns on bus routes also tends to wipe away the ridership, which is not the end goal. This is not Manhattan, where you can usually get away with running like that. The outer boroughs are a different animal. 

Also, another thing you need to understand is, disrupting the hub and spoke models in Flushing and Jamaica by routing buses away from those areas doesn't help people who are trying to get to locations in Flushing and Jamaica proper. There are many people who go to Flushing or Jamaica in order to shop, work, or connect to other buses. Not everybody is gunning for the train (although that varies by route, too). 

His justifications for the changes is exactly why I'm not going to bother assessing any of those changes.... He's not trying to spur ridership growth on the buses.

If the well is already poisoned, I'm not going to drink anything from it.

[R68OnBroadway]

Made some route changes:

Q60: 

Route is split at Roosevelt Av with overlap between 40th and 52nd. Western part is called Q60, eastern part is called Q61. Should help improve reliability and reduce bunching as the Queensboro is a nightmare.

Q102- this route is rather useless, circulatory, and outdated given Roosevelt Island now has subway access. One thing I thought you could do with this route is have it run to 36th Av  , then right on 31st, then run down to Jackson and onto the Pulaski to end at Greenpoint on the  . Anyone got any ideas about what to do with this route?

 

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Made some route changes:

Q60: 

Route is split at Roosevelt Av with overlap between 40th and 52nd. Western part is called Q60, eastern part is called Q61. Should help improve reliability and reduce bunching as the Queensboro is a nightmare.

Q102- this route is rather useless, circulatory, and outdated given Roosevelt Island now has subway access. One thing I thought you could do with this route is have it run to 36th Av  , then right on 31st, then run down to Jackson and onto the Pulaski to end at Greenpoint on the  . Anyone got any ideas about what to do with this route?

 

Great idea! Disconnect Roosevelt Island with Astoria and Long Island City!

[R68OnBroadway]

4 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Great idea! Disconnect Roosevelt Island with Astoria and Long Island City!

I didn't say I was eliminating the route, I just said I was rerouting it to be less of a loop. It would still serve Long Island City and be on the border with Astoria. 

[Union Tpke]

25 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I didn't say I was eliminating the route, I just said I was rerouting it to be less of a loop. It would still serve Long Island City and be on the border with Astoria. 

Being a loop isn't a bad thing.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Made some route changes:

Q60: 

Route is split at Roosevelt Av with overlap between 40th and 52nd. Western part is called Q60, eastern part is called Q61. Should help improve reliability and reduce bunching as the Queensboro is a nightmare.

Q102- this route is rather useless, circulatory, and outdated given Roosevelt Island now has subway access. One thing I thought you could do with this route is have it run to 36th Av  , then right on 31st, then run down to Jackson and onto the Pulaski to end at Greenpoint on the  . Anyone got any ideas about what to do with this route?

 

 

The eastern part (Second Avenue to QBL & 52nd) is basically a Q32 short trip. Why bother?