Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Future ENY OP]

10 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

So here’s some thoughts I had about some routes and how they could possibly be improved.

The Q39 I would reroute it off Forest Ave and run it down Fresh Pond Road with the Q58 and then have it take the B20’s route to Broadway Junction where it would terminate at. The B20 would be cut to Broadway Junction and no longer continue to the Forest Ave  station.

 

The Q39 has no business in Brooklyn under no circumstances. I know everyone has the notion about the B20 ending at Broadway Junction. However, from Broadway Junction to Postal Facility is only 2.5 miles and Postal Fac to Ridgewood is 5 miles. At this point is to leave the B20 and Q39 alone. 

Queens Plaza to Broadway-East New York is double the mileage and double the headache. That’s a bus ride I personally wouldn’t want to endure. Sorry. 

[Q43LTD]

18 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

So here’s some thoughts I had about some routes and how they could possibly be improved.

1. I don’t think the Q19 should serve the Astoria houses. If people from the Astoria Houses want the subway they could take the Q18 or Q102 to the 30th Ave station. The Q19 doesn’t have crazy usage between the Astoria Houses complex and Astoria Blvd Station anyways. I would reroute the Q19 up 21st street and have it terminate at 20th Ave and 23rd Street. It would provide riders with direct and quicker  and  access without having to backtrack on the Q69 and or have to put up with the Q100 to Queens Plaza. I still think the Q100 should be absorbed into a Q69 LTD making LTD stops on the Q69 route to  31st street and local afterwards to Jackson Heights.

Another thing I would do to the Q19 is give it more frequent service and run it later. I think part of what  contributes to the low usage of the Q19 is the fact that it is infrequent and ends so early. So many people simply don’t put up with it. So I’m hoping that by at least making it more frequent during rush hours and having it run to at least 10pm or maybe even 11pm it could be more attractive to people along the route. 

2. I would split the Q38 into 2 routes. The Eliot Ave and Corona side of the route would remain the Q38 and I would have it run to the current Q39 terminal via Forest Ave. It would no longer make that brief turn onto Fresh Pond Road. Instead it would continue down Eliot Ave to Metropolitan Ave and then turn south on Forest Ave to continue to where the Q39 currently terminates at.

The 63rd Drive side of the current Q38 route could be called the Q51. 

The Q51 will follow the current Q38 route from 62nd Drive and 108th Street to Dry harbor Road. It would then turn south on Dry Harbor Road to Furmanville Road and continue on that much wider street to 75th Place. It would then turn south on 75th Pl to Juniper Valley Road to 69th Street . It would turn on Metropolitan Ave and continue on Metropolitan Ave until Forest Ave it would continue on there until Gates Ave where it will follow the B13 to the Myrtle Wyckoff station.

To be honest I had the hardest time figuring out how to route the south half of the Q38 (Q51) because I think having it end simply end at Metropolitan Ave does nothing but limit what the route can do. I think by having it extended to Myrtle Wyckoff or even somewhere else would open up new options for riders in the area. 

3. The Q39 I would reroute it off Forest Ave and run it down Fresh Pond Road with the Q58 and then have it take the B20’s route to Broadway Junction where it would terminate at. The B20 would be cut to Broadway Junction and no longer continue to the Forest Ave  station.

 

Quick points.

The only thing I would to the Q19 would be expand the service hours, not cut it off at 20 Av.

I would leave the Q69 and Q100 LTD alone

I do agree with splitting the Q38, but I wouldn't have both legs serving Ridgewood

The Q39 and the B20 need to stay where they at...for now until this merger is complete

 

[B35 via Church]

17 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

So here’s some thoughts I had about some routes and how they could possibly be improved.

I don’t think the Q19 should serve the Astoria houses. If people from the Astoria Houses want the subway they could take the Q18 or Q102 to the 30th Ave station. The Q19 doesn’t have crazy usage between the Astoria Houses complex and Astoria Blvd Station anyways. I would reroute the Q19 up 21st street and have it terminate at 20th Ave and 23rd Street. It would provide riders with direct and quicker  and  access without having to backtrack on the Q69 and or have to put up with the Q100 to Queens Plaza. I still think the Q100 should be absorbed into a Q69 LTD making LTD stops on the Q69 route to  31st street and local afterwards to Jackson Heights.

Another thing I would do to the Q19 is give it more frequent service and run it later. I think part of what  contributes to the low usage of the Q19 is the fact that it is infrequent and ends so early. So many people simply don’t put up with it. So I’m hoping that by at least making it more frequent during rush hours and having it run to at least 10pm or maybe even 11pm it could be more attractive to people along the route.....

The demand for the Q19 extension to the Astoria projects wasn't about getting to/from the Astoria line (the Q18 had been... and still is the primary route for that purpose) - it was for improved east-west coverage..... That void was palpable enough & it took the MTA long enough to finally fulfill it..... I'd say most the people that used to even bother with the Q19 when it ended at 21st, were of folks coming (off buses) from the south & of people hoofing it out from the west..... No, it doesn't get crazy usage at the PJ's, but there's nothing to suggest that Ditmars patrons want that same coverage to other areas of Queens, that folks from the projects got with that very Q19 extension....

Your second paragraph however is the bigger issue at hand w/ the Q19, with which I concur with...

 

[Future ENY OP]

12 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Quick points.

The Q39 and the B20 need to stay where they at...for now until this merger is complete

 

Absolutely no merging of the Q39 and the B20 under no circumstances.

I’m trying to figure this fantasy of merging the 2 lines. (Someone help me on this)  The 2 lines serve completely different markets. 

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Absolutely no merging of the Q39 and the B20 under no circumstances.

I’m trying to figure this fantasy of merging the 2 lines. (Someone help me on this)  The 2 lines serve completely different markets. 

He's talking about the NYCT & MTABus merger.

[Future ENY OP]

8 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

He's talking about the NYCT & MTABus merger.

I'll say this, even with the merger. Why merge the 2 routes? Complete disaster.

[B35 via Church]

21 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

The Q39 and the B20 need to stay where they at...for now until this merger is complete

Merger aside, do you think the B20 should be cut back to B'way Junction.... to have the Q39 also running to B'way Junction?

[Future ENY OP]

21 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Quick points.

The Q39 and the B20 need to stay where they at...for now until this merger is complete

 

Bushwick, Ridgewood service as we know is extreme disaster. The nearest bus stop for some bushwick riders would be the B60 on Wilson, B52 on gates.

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Merger aside, do you think the B20 should be cut back to B'way Junction.... to have the Q39 also running to B'way Junction?

If I were a bushwick resident, I wouldn't want to contend with that at all. As I indicated in one of my previous posts that you cannot turn a 5 mile route into a 14/15 mil route and its local stops and two completely different markets.

Look what happen to the B40 and B78 at the present time. Even that merger didn't make sense and till this day the one depot that's way up in Maspeth is causing hell while you have Flatbush that is 5 mins away from the current terminal and can provide better headways and operate the route south of Ralph Ave.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The Q39 makes so many turns to begin with, in addition to going down some tight streets in Ridgewood.

Imagine how many 'vias' it would take to display the main streets of operation on the Q39, if the MTA actually did that. The current route doesn't have that.

[B35 via Church]

I'll await his (Q43LTD's) response.... Anyway:

 

44 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

If I were a bushwick resident, I wouldn't want to contend with that at all. As I indicated in one of my previous posts that you cannot turn a 5 mile route into a 14/15 mil route and its local stops and two completely different markets.

Look what happen to the B40 and B78 at the present time. Even that merger didn't make sense and till this day the one depot that's way up in Maspeth is causing hell while you have Flatbush that is 5 mins away from the current terminal and can provide better headways and operate the route south of Ralph Ave.  

You're preaching to the choir with this....

40 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

....Imagine how many 'vias' it would take to display the main streets of operation on the Q39, if the MTA actually did that. The current route doesn't have that.

In the NFL, when you have 2 starting quarterbacks, you have a grand total of none.....

There wouldn't be any main streets of operation; nor 58th, nor 48th

 

[Q43LTD]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Merger aside, do you think the B20 should be cut back to B'way Junction.... to have the Q39 also running to B'way Junction?

No, I think they should be left alone merger or no merger, but knowing the  and their plan to "redesign" the bus network, I wouldn't put it past them. There's not enough space for another route to Broadway Junction is there? Is the  to the  not enough?

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Bushwick, Ridgewood service as we know is extreme disaster. The nearest bus stop for some bushwick riders would be the B60 on Wilson, B52 on gates.

If I were a bushwick resident, I wouldn't want to contend with that at all. As I indicated in one of my previous posts that you cannot turn a 5 mile route into a 14/15 mil route and its local stops and two completely different markets.

Look what happen to the B40 and B78 at the present time. Even that merger didn't make sense and till this day the one depot that's way up in Maspeth is causing hell while you have Flatbush that is 5 mins away from the current terminal and can provide better headways and operate the route south of Ralph Ave.  

So, would you have never merged the B40 and the 78? Would Grand Av Depot still exist? So the current B47 and the B82 should have never came to pass. I guess the B13 and 43 made sense in 95 and 02 respectively. 

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Q39 makes so many turns to begin with, in addition to going down some tight streets in Ridgewood.

Imagine how many 'vias' it would take to display the main streets of operation on the Q39, if the MTA actually did that. The current route doesn't have that.

If I remember correctly, during the PBL days, the Q39 said via Forest

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

Has there ever been a bus proposal that would utilize the existing Q52-SBS in extending it to serve The Bronx? This would be a western Queens alternative to the Q44-SBS, which serves eastern Queens.

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Has there ever been a bus proposal that would utilize the existing Q52-SBS in extending it to serve The Bronx? This would be a western Queens alternative to the Q44-SBS, which serves eastern Queens.

Why would we need the Q52 in the Bronx in the first place? No need for more Queens routes to the Bronx unless a separate route operates via RFK.

Edited July 8, 2018 by MysteriousBtrain

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

6 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Why would we need the Q52 in the Bronx in the first place? No need for more Queens routes to the Bronx unless a separate route operates via RFK.

Jamaica to the South Bronx. Enough said.

[Orion6025]

2 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Has there ever been a bus proposal that would utilize the existing Q52-SBS in extending it to serve The Bronx? This would be a western Queens alternative to the Q44-SBS, which serves eastern Queens.

Wait what? Of all possible routes to extend that's the one that came to mind? That route is already long and extending it all the way to the Bronx would be nuts...

Perhaps create a new route that connects western Queens to the bronx if such a market exists..

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Jamaica to the South Bronx. Enough said.

 

Q52 has a stop at Jamaica Avenue but doesn't serve Jamaica (the neighborhood).

[Gotham Bus Co.]

4 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

Perhaps create a new route that connects western Queens to the bronx if such a market exists..

 

In other words, re-create the old Bx21 (the Bronx leg of the original "TB" Triborough Bridge route) and extend it at both ends. Where in western Queens? Where in the Bronx?

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

19 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

In other words, re-create the old Bx21 (the Bronx leg of the original "TB" Triborough Bridge route) and extend it at both ends. Where in western Queens? Where in the Bronx?

I was thinking of an alternative to the Q44-SBS, as that route serves the eastern Queens population seeking The Bronx. For passengers from western Queens seeking locations in The Bronx, it requires traveling into Manhattan first. If there were a bus route that existed between, say, Jackson Heights, Queens and The Hub, Bronx, over Randall's Island, I'm curious to see how it would do.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

25 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

 If there were a bus route that existed between, say, Jackson Heights, Queens and The Hub, Bronx, over Randall's Island, I'm curious to see how it would do.

The old Bx21 ran from 138th & Jackson (Bronx) to 24th Avenue & 35th Street (Astoria). At the same time, the former promotional X81 used the BQE from Woodside LIRR to Randalls Island.

 

I imagine your route starting from Woodside, following the Q70 to 74th Street, then onto the BQE, onto the bridge, then to the Major Deegan, exit for Willis Avenue, to 149th. 

 

 

[Q43LTD]

Didn't  the M35 go to Astoria years later? 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

37 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Didn't  the M35 go to Astoria years later? 

The M35 (Lex-Astoria) and M34 (Lex-Wards Island) were the other two legs of the TB route along with the Bx21.

[bobtehpanda]

On 7/8/2018 at 6:11 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

In other words, re-create the old Bx21 (the Bronx leg of the original "TB" Triborough Bridge route) and extend it at both ends. Where in western Queens? Where in the Bronx?

Hub-LGA is probably a start.

The true tragedy is that LGA's redevelopment would've been much more useful with a two-way busway serving the airport, so that you could run such a bus to serve both LGA and Flushing.

[NewFlyer 230]

On 7/9/2018 at 10:38 PM, bobtehpanda said:

Hub-LGA is probably a start.

The true tragedy is that LGA's redevelopment would've been much more useful with a two-way busway serving the airport, so that you could run such a bus to serve both LGA and Flushing.

I wonder why the MTA even bothers to run the Q48 to LGA. It's ridership to the airport is very bad. I know its for coverage, however that route empties out on 23rd street. The M60 and the Q70 are the highly popular routes to take to LGA.

I was thinking that the MTA could recreate another LGA link bus (similar to the Q70) where it has a stop in Flushing and then runs nonstop via the Grand Central Parkway to LGA.

However my only concern is the fact that Flushing unlike Jamaica only has the  at its last stop (after it already passed the Q70 and Q72)  and the LIRR in Flushing is isolated from the other branches. I doubt people are willing to take two buses to get to the airport so I wonder if the demand is even there.

 

[Orion6025]

14 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

 

However my only concern is the fact that Flushing unlike Jamaica only has the  at its last stop (after it already passed the Q70 and Q72)  and the LIRR in Flushing is isolated from the other branches. I doubt people are willing to take two buses to get to the airport so I wonder if the demand is even there.

 

Perhaps if a bus from the foot of the LIRR Flushing that swings onto northern then beelines onto the expressway in that weird interchange could be viable. I don't anticipate many people being thrilled or choosing to transfer from local bus to some hypothetical " LGALink Part 2" but if many airport workers [who choose the 7 to the 70 as opposed to just using the 48] come through flushing, it could be a success.

[bobtehpanda]

2 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

Perhaps if a bus from the foot of the LIRR Flushing that swings onto northern then beelines onto the expressway in that weird interchange could be viable. I don't anticipate many people being thrilled or choosing to transfer from local bus to some hypothetical " LGALink Part 2" but if many airport workers [who choose the 7 to the 70 as opposed to just using the 48] come through flushing, it could be a success.

Most airport workers live in Elmhurst and Corona, IIRC (There was an O&D survey floating around, I'll have to look for it). East of Van Wyck, real estate values and rents are very high, and most airport workers do not come from those neighborhoods.

In any case, the main issue has always been that a bus could never beat a car which takes less than five minutes to go from Flushing to LGA. By itself, that is not a good enough market to justify a route. Even with hotel growth in Flushing, most of those run their own shuttles for the convenience of their guests.

Edited July 11, 2018 by bobtehpanda