BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4676 Posted June 22, 2016 I never even talked about the Q60 overlapping the subway, so to imply that I implied such a thing is stupid. If a person needs the bus, what difference does it make if the bus line overlaps the subway? We are talking about two different things, and quite frankly having a subway line that either fully or partially duplicates a bus line shouldn't have any significant bearing on whether or not limited stop service is needed. I don't think the Q60 needs an LTD, tbh. There's a good amount of ridership at stops outside the "limited" stops (whatever you assign that to be). And there are some uneven headways, as going to Queens, there's some 15 minute spans in the AM. You're better off with artics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4677 Posted June 22, 2016 I don't think the Q60 needs an LTD, tbh. There's a good amount of ridership at stops outside the "limited" stops (whatever you assign that to be). And there are some uneven headways, as going to Queens, there's some 15 minute spans in the AM. You're better off with artics. So the bus doesn't crawl to and from its terminals? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4678 Posted June 22, 2016 So the bus doesn't crawl to and from its terminals? It does, but a limited is not always the solution, especially with the headways the Q60 has. It has some the ridership aspect, but that would mean long waits for many people. You would inconvenience way too many people. Maybe if the service was more frequent I would agree with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4679 Posted June 22, 2016 I never even talked about the Q60 overlapping the subway, so to imply that I implied such a thing is stupid. If a person needs the bus, what difference does it make if the bus line overlaps the subway? We are talking about two different things, and quite frankly having a subway line that either fully or partially duplicates a bus line shouldn't have any significant bearing on whether or not limited stop service is needed. Because some of those people who need the Q60 can and do use the subway. So the bus doesn't crawl to and from its terminals? If much of that crawling is due to a significant amount of people at "intermediate" stops, then all you're doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul. If ridership is spread out (compared to being concentrated at major stops) then a limited isn't the answer, especially on the headways the Q60 has. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4680 Posted June 22, 2016 Because some of those people who need the Q60 can and do use the subway. That still has nothing to do with the topic at hand though. Some of the M101 riders use the . Your point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4681 Posted June 22, 2016 As long as the Q60 travels in that service lane, we can forget about LTD's making any real difference.... This is one of the main causes of bunching on the route (and there's really nothin that can be done about it)...... Yes, the route garners a lot "intermediate" ridership, which really doesn't help the case of a Q60 LTD..... And as far as the subway vs the Q60 along QB, there's a significant amt. of elderly ridership on that route - Ranging b/w QBP & the courthouse.... Specific ridership patterns are in-between Grand & the courthouse, and in-between QBP & Woodhaven..... The part of the Q60 that used to be a breeze (b/w 48th & Grand... both, not inclusive) simply isn't anymore.... It all facilitates bunching.... Shit, let's not even get started with getting over the bridge (either direction).... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4682 Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) That still has nothing to do with the topic at hand though. Some of the M101 riders use the . Your point? How about I put it like this: The subway sucks enough ridership off the Q60 to the point where its headways are below the standard for limited-stop service, and the remaining riders are too spread out to justify limited-stop service because it would hurt more than help. Happy now? Edited June 22, 2016 by checkmatechamp13 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 22, 2016 Share #4683 Posted June 22, 2016 How about I put it like this: The subway sucks enough ridership off the Q60 to the point where its headways are below the standard for limited-stop service, and the remaining riders are too spread out to justify limited-stop service because it would hurt more than help. Happy now? B35 answered the question far better so it isn't a question of happiness, but rather explaining yourself better in the first place instead of snapping at people for questioning your comments. We know that the subway is taking ridership from local buses across the city so that's no shocker. Your attitude displays the feeling that there's no need for it simply because the subway does the job despite that not necessarily being the case. It has been noted who is using the bus and that's what I wanted to hear about. Not LTD service being automatically dismissed just because of the subway being there, nor the headways, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 23, 2016 Share #4684 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) B35 answered the question far better so it isn't a question of happiness, but rather explaining yourself better in the first place instead of snapping at people for questioning your comments. We know that the subway is taking ridership from local buses across the city so that's no shocker. Your attitude displays the feeling that there's no need for it simply because the subway does the job despite that not necessarily being the case. It has been noted who is using the bus and that's what I wanted to hear about. Not LTD service being automatically dismissed just because of the subway being there, nor the headways, etc. If you want to ignore a statement just because it came from me instead of another member, that's your problem. I specifically said (without mentioning the subway at all): If much of that crawling is due to a significant amount of people at "intermediate" stops, then all you're doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul. If ridership is spread out (compared to being concentrated at major stops) then a limited isn't the answer, especially on the headways the Q60 has. Edited June 23, 2016 by checkmatechamp13 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pranavbhat924 Posted June 24, 2016 Share #4685 Posted June 24, 2016 It got awfully quiet here Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 24, 2016 Share #4686 Posted June 24, 2016 It got awfully quiet here Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app If somebody has something to say, they'll say it. There's no need to keep the thread alive continuously for no reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 25, 2016 Share #4687 Posted June 25, 2016 Now I'm fully convinced that the Q66 needs to get cut back to Northern Blvd subway (or 48th at the most); it's not even worth the secondary/tertiary ridership it garners from QBP to 48th anymore .... Reliability would increase tenfold for/from buses in & out of Flushing..... Fully believe that cutting the Q66 back in that manner would be equally as good for the route, as the Q19 extension to the Astoria houses was for it.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TransitMan Posted June 25, 2016 Share #4688 Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Now I'm fully convinced that the Q66 needs to get cut back to Northern Blvd subway (or 48th at the most); it's not even worth the secondary/tertiary ridership it garners from QBP to 48th anymore .... Reliability would increase tenfold for/from buses in & out of Flushing..... Fully believe that cutting the Q66 back in that manner would be equally as good for the route, as the Q19 extension to the Astoria houses was for it.... I never understood (going back to the Queens Surface days) how the Q66 was "LIMITED" on 21st St and then "LOCAL" stops along 35th Av to Flushing. Never really did anything. However, I'm with you "B35 via Church" (by the way, how are you?) the Q66 SHOULD be cut back BUT I would cut it back to 51st St in Woodside. For Northern Blvd (or the 46th St Station), you have the Q104 to the 7 train (IF necessary) and then put the Q66 to QBP during the late night. Edited June 25, 2016 by The TransitMan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted June 25, 2016 Share #4689 Posted June 25, 2016 Now I'm fully convinced that the Q66 needs to get cut back to Northern Blvd subway (or 48th at the most); it's not even worth the secondary/tertiary ridership it garners from QBP to 48th anymore .... Reliability would increase tenfold for/from buses in & out of Flushing..... Fully believe that cutting the Q66 back in that manner would be equally as good for the route, as the Q19 extension to the Astoria houses was for it.... I never understood (going back to the Queens Surface days) how the Q66 was "LIMITED" on 21st St and then "LOCAL" stops along 35th Av to Flushing. Never really did anything. However, I'm with you "B35 via Church" (by the way, how are you?) the Q66 SHOULD be cut back BUT I would cut it back to 51st St in Woodside. For Northern Blvd (or the 46th St Station), you have the Q104 to the 7 train (IF necessary) and then put the Q66 to QBP during the late night. It's the same thing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share #4690 Posted June 25, 2016 I never understood (going back to the Queens Surface days) how the Q66 was "LIMITED" on 21st St and then "LOCAL" stops along 35th Av to Flushing. Never really did anything. However, I'm with you "B35 via Church" (by the way, how are you?) the Q66 SHOULD be cut back BUT I would cut it back to 51st St in Woodside. For Northern Blvd (or the 46th St Station), you have the Q104 to the 7 train (IF necessary) and then put the Q66 to QBP during the late night. Maybe they figured the Q69 is more frequent along 21 St. So the 66 and 100 wouldn't be needed between 41 and 35 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4691 Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) I never understood (going back to the Queens Surface days) how the Q66 was "LIMITED" on 21st St and then "LOCAL" stops along 35th Av to Flushing. Never really did anything. However, I'm with you "B35 via Church" (by the way, how are you?) the Q66 SHOULD be cut back BUT I would cut it back to 51st St in Woodside. For Northern Blvd (or the 46th St Station), you have the Q104 to the 7 train (IF necessary) and then put the Q66 to QBP during the late night. Could be better (a bit sore right now), but overall, I'm hangin in there... Thanks. As for the suggestion, having buses ending at Northern Blvd doesn't change what the current short turn Q66 does.... I don't want to bore you with technicalities, but the destination signage on the short turns is a bit of a misnomer (if that's what you're going by).... Buses don't actually terminate at 51st st: - The short turns from Flushing, end at the subway station (Northern & Broadway.... on B'way, in front of a newsstand) - The first stop of the short turns heading back to Flushing is in front of Tower Square (which is really Woodside av/Northern Blvd)... Woodside av (southern end) turns into 51st st (northern end) at Northern Blvd itself..... There's no actual stop at 51st/Northern believe it or not; the next stop over (meaning, westbound) would be Newtown, across the street from the other side of the projects.... That said, I'm not sure what you're getting at in that last statement there; Northern Blvd isn't a stop along the .... Edited June 26, 2016 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4692 Posted June 26, 2016 That said, I'm not sure what you're getting at in that last statement there; Northern Blvd isn't a stop along the .... I'm guess it's an alternative 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4693 Posted June 26, 2016 Now I'm fully convinced that the Q66 needs to get cut back to Northern Blvd subway (or 48th at the most); it's not even worth the secondary/tertiary ridership it garners from QBP to 48th anymore .... Reliability would increase tenfold for/from buses in & out of Flushing..... Fully believe that cutting the Q66 back in that manner would be equally as good for the route, as the Q19 extension to the Astoria houses was for it.... How's traffic along the route in general? Is variation in the loading between QBP & Ravenswood (basically, if it leaves before a Q69) the big problem, or is there traffic there as well? (I'm sure all the turns it has to do to get out of the QBP area don't help either) BTW, do you think the Q69 should take the same routing around QBP as the present-day Q69 and Q100 do? That said, I'm not sure what you're getting at in that last statement there; Northern Blvd isn't a stop along the .... I think he's referring to getting to Flushing if you're along 35th Avenue or 21st Street. If he's referring to getting to QBP, there's already a bunch of alternatives anyway (Q69, Q102, Q101, or even the subway) So it might be justification to go to 48th Street, since you have an easy connection to the Q104 for anybody who may be going further west (and the obvious benefit is that it's a little closer to the Woodside Houses) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4694 Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) How's traffic along the route in general? Is variation in the loading between QBP & Ravenswood (basically, if it leaves before a Q69) the big problem, or is there traffic there as well? (I'm sure all the turns it has to do to get out of the QBP area don't help either) BTW, do you think the Q69 should take the same routing around QBP as the present-day Q69 and Q100 do? Generally, traffic on Northern Blvd (west) is rather smooth, all things considered (it's similar to Hillside av, except it's prone to more traffic stand-stills).... Granted, that's not factoring in game days (Mets), where Northern can just about grind to a halt for miles (west of the stadium).... The thing is, a typical ride on the Q66, you can expect to experience either someone getting off or someone getting on at almost literally every stop along the way - from 48th on over the 100's.... Buses east of the 48th st mall never really get a chance to "move" (if you catch my drift).... It's not that traffic is making the Q66 stop & go, it's the amount of passenger activity per stop that makes it stop & go.... If you judged the Q66 by traffic along Northern Blvd alone, you would think it'd be a pretty quick route - it's anything but that.... This is a large reason why I think the route overall should run b/w Woodside & Flushing.... While 35th is necessary for coverage I suppose, 21st is an absolute waste of time - both of which does nothing more than add to the waiting time of pax needing to get anywhere b/w Woodside & Flushing (I guess you can call that the core riderbase of the Q66) - When it doesn't have to be IMO....21st is over-saturated w/ overall bus service as it is (there's too much combined service b/w the Q69 the Q100, I find).... It seems as if the Q66 is being used as a stopgap - All 3 routes end in QBP, but: Q66: ....the local that gets to the part of 21st that the masses need quicker (which is north of QBP)Q100: ...the LTD that gets to the part of 21st that the masses need quickerQ69: ....the local that backtracks to Court Sq. before getting to the part of 21st that the masses want All of this is why the Q66 carries air heading towards QBP, and sees moderate (at best) levels of ridership out of QBP... I'm not exactly suggesting this, but if the concern is that coverage should be kept along 35th, perhaps running a route b/w Greenpoint av (or Nassau av) & Northern Blvd would be in order (or, for all I care, merging that same aforementioned part of the Q66 with the entire B32).... Either way, the main goal would be to have both the Q69 local & the Q100 LTD be the routes out of QBP serving 21st st north of QBP quicker.... Saying it all another way, the backtracking of the Q69 to court sq. is the main reason the Q66 gets riders out of QBP..... There is not much ridership on the Q66 out of QBP past 35th/Steinway - and that is being generous..... So to directly answer that last question, yep (although I do understand why the Q69 serves Court Sq).... Think I got to everything I wanted to say.... Edited June 26, 2016 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4695 Posted June 26, 2016 If ridership is spread out along the Q66, would consolidating bus stops or skip-stopping except at major stops work? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share #4696 Posted June 26, 2016 How about making the Q66 have more than 2 stops on 21 St? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4697 Posted June 26, 2016 If ridership is spread out along the Q66, would consolidating bus stops or skip-stopping except at major stops work? I've thought about that in the past (stop consolidation to speed up the trip), but I wouldn't know where to begin doing so, to be quite honest.... (I) couldn't do as accurate a stop-by-stop analysis w/ the Q66 (like I can w/ the B35, for example).... Skip stopping I would stay far away from; i.e., I'm not of the ilk that says the Q66 needs a LTD..... How about making the Q66 have more than 2 stops on 21 St? Still wouldn't do anything for QBP bound buses.... Flushing bound, you'd garner some more people taking it over the Q69 out or QBP..... But looking at the bigger picture (meaning, the full Q66 route), more stops (more usage) in LIC would exacerbate matters..... Way I see it, the Q66 west of Northern subway makes the route significantly inefficient.... The mileage it travels west of Woodside is not worth it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4698 Posted June 26, 2016 with the amount of the geriatrics crowd the q60 gets its always destined to be late and slow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TransitMan Posted June 26, 2016 Share #4699 Posted June 26, 2016 Could be better (a bit sore right now), but overall, I'm hangin in there... Thanks. As for the suggestion, having buses ending at Northern Blvd doesn't change what the current short turn Q66 does.... I don't want to bore you with technicalities, but the destination signage on the short turns is a bit of a misnomer (if that's what you're going by).... Buses don't actually terminate at 51st st: - The short turns from Flushing, end at the subway station (Northern & Broadway.... on B'way, in front of a newsstand) - The first stop of the short turns heading back to Flushing is in front of Tower Square (which is really Woodside av/Northern Blvd)... Woodside av (southern end) turns into 51st st (northern end) at Northern Blvd itself..... There's no actual stop at 51st/Northern believe it or not; the next stop over (meaning, westbound) would be Newtown, across the street from the other side of the projects.... That said, I'm not sure what you're getting at in that last statement there; Northern Blvd isn't a stop along the .... I'm guess it's an alternative How's traffic along the route in general? Is variation in the loading between QBP & Ravenswood (basically, if it leaves before a Q69) the big problem, or is there traffic there as well? (I'm sure all the turns it has to do to get out of the QBP area don't help either) BTW, do you think the Q69 should take the same routing around QBP as the present-day Q69 and Q100 do? I think he's referring to getting to Flushing if you're along 35th Avenue or 21st Street. If he's referring to getting to QBP, there's already a bunch of alternatives anyway (Q69, Q102, Q101, or even the subway) So it might be justification to go to 48th Street, since you have an easy connection to the Q104 for anybody who may be going further west (and the obvious benefit is that it's a little closer to the Woodside Houses) My apologizes. I was suggesting that be an alternative to ending the Q66 at Northern Blvd and Woodside Av. I got confused on the Northern Blvd and 46th St Subway stops...was trying to figure out where exactly Northern Blvd stop was along the M and R trains. Again, the Q104 to the 7 train was my idea for an alternative and just extend the Q66 to QBP during the overnight. Sorry for the confusion. Thank you "lalam" and "checkmatechamp13" for your help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 27, 2016 Share #4700 Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) If ridership is spread out along the Q66, would consolidating bus stops or skip-stopping except at major stops work? I personally am not too fond of the idea of skip-stop on a bus line. To me, designating buses as say Q69A & Q69B implies there's some type of branching going on. Honestly, citywide, I think we could use some stop consolidation. Even on Staten Island where the stops generally seem to be spaced reasonably, I can name a few stops right off the top of my head that shouldn't exist. Think I got to everything I wanted to say.... Alright, that makes sense. BTW, Google Maps saying we need permission to view it (yeah, that default setting is annoying). Edited June 27, 2016 by checkmatechamp13 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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