Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

Throws mic between my legs? F*** is you on, dude.....

Anyway, I've already proven that you're a hotshot.... Actually, you keep shooting your damn self in the foot.... When was the last time you actually mentioned your ideas again? It went from being about your actual ideas to being about video chats & challenges... You believe that you're going to "win" some "debate".... This is about "winning" with you, instead of wanting to learn anything....

Keep on running off at the mouth though... You keep "proving" my assessment of you, the more you keep trying to "win" the internetz with these posts of yours... Funny how all of a sudden your coherency & sentence structure has shot up when you are NOT talking about your ideas......

Edited October 31, 2017 by B35 via Church

[aemoreira81]

Splitting the Q60?

The Q60 is currently the Queens Boulevard local bus route, prone to traffic delays between Forest Hills and Rego Park, and again in Elmhurst as it travels along the 1-lane frontage road (in those sections).  There is a need for the maximal service level between Forest Hills and Queens Place, the primary shopping area. The other major area for shoppers, in Sunnyside, is already covered by the Q32. As such, I would propose a severance into two routes:

1. Q61: East Midtown to Forest Hills-71 Avenue. After the last stop, buses would merge onto the main road to make a U-turn at Ascan Avenue/72 Drive and lay over there. The first pickup back to Manhattan would be at 72 Avenue (except as noted below).

Operationally, 69 Street would be a last stop westbound for short-trip pull-ins, or 65 Place serving a similar purpose eastbound, which would then use the BQE for run-ons and run-offs. For trips starting from the eastern end, 108 Street (71-Continental) would be the first pickup, using the Grand Central for run-ons. The Q61 would be LGA-assigned.

2. Q60: South Jamaica to Grand Avenue/Broadway. After the last westbound drop-off, the Q60 would bypass the Van Loon Street stop and U-turn at 51 Avenue, laying over on the eastbound side. This would remain at JFK Depot.

[Eric B]

I wondered why they never started LTD service on the Q60.

[XBht26]

1 hour ago, Eric B said:

I wondered why they never started LTD service on the Q60.

and do it

[NY1635]

1 hour ago, Eric B said:

I wondered why they never started LTD service on the Q60.

Even with LTD service, the Q60 would be stuck in traffic as it approaches the Queensboro Bridge. Traffic at Queens Plaza is one of the things that hurts both the Q32 and Q60.

[aemoreira81]

8 hours ago, Eric B said:

I wondered why they never started LTD service on the Q60.

Because you still have to contend with the 1-lane frontage road from 49 Street to 90 Street, and then again from the LIE to Union Turnpike, and then past Queens Borough Hall on weekdays, traffic averages about 10-15 mph, well below the 25 mph speed limit for Queens Boulevard. If the service road was made a Neighborhood Slow Zone, it would barely affect traffic.

[B35 via Church]

On 11/3/2017 at 1:48 AM, aemoreira81 said:

Splitting the Q60?

The Q60 is currently the Queens Boulevard local bus route, prone to traffic delays between Forest Hills and Rego Park, and again in Elmhurst as it travels along the 1-lane frontage road (in those sections).  There is a need for the maximal service level between Forest Hills and Queens Place, the primary shopping area. The other major area for shoppers, in Sunnyside, is already covered by the Q32. As such, I would propose a severance into two routes:

1. Q61: East Midtown to Forest Hills-71 Avenue. After the last stop, buses would merge onto the main road to make a U-turn at Ascan Avenue/72 Drive and lay over there. The first pickup back to Manhattan would be at 72 Avenue (except as noted below).

Operationally, 69 Street would be a last stop westbound for short-trip pull-ins, or 65 Place serving a similar purpose eastbound, which would then use the BQE for run-ons and run-offs. For trips starting from the eastern end, 108 Street (71-Continental) would be the first pickup, using the Grand Central for run-ons. The Q61 would be LGA-assigned.

2. Q60: South Jamaica to Grand Avenue/Broadway. After the last westbound drop-off, the Q60 would bypass the Van Loon Street stop and U-turn at 51 Avenue, laying over on the eastbound side. This would remain at JFK Depot.

You've proposed some variation of this before.... Still want no part of splitting the Q60.

Not proclaiming this as the best solution, but I would try my hand at short turning trips on the western end at Jackson av/QBP area before ever splitting (whilst creating overlapping portions) the route at Grand on one front & 71st av on the other front.... The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and that couldn't be more true with the Q60... Have that route split & both spurs would see so little service, it's not even funny - especially the Grand av - S. Jamaica split....

 

 

Quote

I am having a problem with the Q46 lately here is my video https://youtu.be/0W8K1UYbuZM

The MTA needs to stop making the Q46 start off at Little Neck Pkwy 260th st in Glen Oaks and strictly make the route from Long Island Jewish Hospital to the Kew Gardens Subway Station

This quote is from a comment from a youtube video....

Watching the actual video (linked in the quote itself), it's of someone that's waiting at LIJ for a Q46..... Albeit being almost 10 years ago since I had an assignment at LIJ, I can relate to what this guy is alluding to.... Matter fact, it was around that same time of the day when I would head back home also (appx. 2pm slot)... It is a bit of a lonely feeling waiting for buses in that neck of the woods & it doesn't help that buses seem to arrive at random, instead of on a schedule, and rather sparsely at that.... What I would sometimes do is walk out the 271st st entrance (of the hospital) & continue down 271st (which spills into Langdale) & continue making my way to the Q43....

At the same time though, I can't agree with having all Q46 trips run from the hospital... I don't think it's the issue of inadequate service.... Q46's have always had this tendency to crawl, especially east of Springfield (either direction) & it's something that I've always hated about the route.... There's simply too much ridership west of Springfield that would be negatively affected by having all trips coming from LIJ..... Getting rid of the 260th st branch won't solve much of anything....

What say you?

Edited November 4, 2017 by B35 via Church

[Q43LTD]

On 11/3/2017 at 6:16 PM, aemoreira81 said:

Because you still have to contend with the 1-lane frontage road from 49 Street to 90 Street, and then again from the LIE to Union Turnpike, and then past Queens Borough Hall on weekdays, traffic averages about 10-15 mph, well below the 25 mph speed limit for Queens Boulevard. If the service road was made a Neighborhood Slow Zone, it would barely affect traffic.

Have they put artics on the Q60 yet?

10 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

 

 

------------------------

From a comment from another YT video:

Watching said video, it's of someone that's waiting at LIJ for a Q46..... Albeit being almost 10 years ago since I had an assignment at LIJ, I can relate to what this guy is alluding to.... Matter fact, it was around that same time of the day when I would head back home also (appx. 2pm slot)... It is a bit of a lonely feeling waiting for buses in that neck of the woods & it doesn't help that buses seem to arrive at random, instead of on a schedule, and rather sparsely at that.... What I would sometimes do is walk out the 271st st entrance (of the hospital) & continue down 271st (which spills into Langdale) & continue making my way to the Q43....

At the same time though, I can't agree with having all Q46 trips run from the hospital... I don't think it's the issue of inadequate service.... Q46's have always had this tendency to crawl, especially east of Springfield & it's something that I've always hated about the route.... There's simply too much ridership west of Springfield that would be negatively affected by having all trips coming from LIJ..... Getting rid of the 260th st branch won't solve much of anything....

What say you?

 

I don't know about him, but this is kind of similar to the Q5. Making the Q46 serve LIJ on all trips at all times (except rush hours) is over kill. When the  got rid of weekend service to Glen Oaks in 2002, I think that was fair. Then the Q79 was around

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

At the same time though, I can't agree with having all Q46 trips run from the hospital... I don't think it's the issue of inadequate service.... Q46's have always had this tendency to crawl, especially east of Springfield (either direction) & it's something that I've always hated about the route.... There's simply too much ridership west of Springfield that would be negatively affected by having all trips coming from LIJ..... Getting rid of the 260th st branch won't solve much of anything....

What say you?

 

Right now most Q46 weekday service is split 2-to-1 in favor of LIJ. Would a 1-to-1 split (half LIJ, half 260) be better? Or maybe have half the service start/end at Springfield and the remaining service split 1-to-1 between LIJ and 260? 

 

Plus, if they were to get rid of the 260th Street branch, what would replace it? The Q36 rerouted off Little Neck Parkway?

[B35 via Church]

10 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Right now most Q46 weekday service is split 2-to-1 in favor of LIJ. Would a 1-to-1 split (half LIJ, half 260) be better? Or maybe have half the service start/end at Springfield and the remaining service split 1-to-1 between LIJ and 260?

Plus, if they were to get rid of the 260th Street branch, what would replace it? The Q36 rerouted off Little Neck Parkway?

Likely nothing.... but all I know as far as this youtuber in question is concerned, is that he wants to get rid of the 260th st branch to have all Q46's running to LIJ....

As far as the ratio of [LIJ] to [LNP/260th st.] trips, yeah, I saw that it was 2:1 on the schedule... I don't have a problem with it being 2:1 necessarily, but maybe the difference between the arrival/departure times of those LIJ trips that are arriving in bunches (basically) could be a little more spread out....

As for your inquiry:
* Every other Q46 running to LIJ could suffice, but every other Q46 running to LNP/260th is complete overkill...

* The other option of having 1/2 the service ending at Springfield & the other 1/2 of the service divided to running to LNP/260th or LIJ, IDK if I'd have exactly 1/2 the service ending at Springfield (as the Q46 as a whole is pretty frequent), or exactly the other half the service being equally divvyed up b/w the 2 branches east of Springfield, but the general logic here I'd only possibly consider during the rush.....

Generally speaking though (meaning, during the rush and during off peak hrs.), I think there should be more service to LIJ over those that short turn at LNP/260th [which is currently true] & more service short turning at Springfield than those short turning at LNP/260th [which is currently not the case].... Not sure how feasible that is to do though, considering the Q46 has LTD & local service.....

Edited November 5, 2017 by B35 via Church

[NY1635]

19 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Right now most Q46 weekday service is split 2-to-1 in favor of LIJ. Would a 1-to-1 split (half LIJ, half 260) be better? Or maybe have half the service start/end at Springfield and the remaining service split 1-to-1 between LIJ and 260? 

 

Plus, if they were to get rid of the 260th Street branch, what would replace it? The Q36 rerouted off Little Neck Parkway?

I feel like it makes more sense to have the n26 serve LIJ full time than reroute the Q36 to serve 260th to cover for the Q46 in Glen Oaks. But since Nassau doesn't want to subsidize bus service for people in Queens to access their area hospitals, the Q46 has to do both LIJ and Glen Oaks it by itself.

Edited November 5, 2017 by NY1635

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, NY1635 said:

I feel like it makes more sense to have the n26 serve LIJ full time than reroute the Q36 to serve 260th to cover for the Q46 in Glen Oaks. But since Nassau doesn't want to subsidize bus service for people in Queens to access their area hospitals, the Q46 has to do both LIJ and Glen Oaks it by itself.

Slashing the Q46 in favor of the N26 would be a great disservice to everyone involved, since they serve wildly different markets.

I think that both branches should be combined into a one way loop, so that it's 260 St > 74th Av > 271st St > Union Turnpike. I feel like most of the delays in that area come from having to go through Lakeville Rd, and it's not a particularly great area to have bus stops anyways.

[NY1635]

57 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Slashing the Q46 in favor of the N26 would be a great disservice to everyone involved, since they serve wildly different markets.

I think that both branches should be combined into a one way loop, so that it's 260 St > 74th Av > 271st St > Union Turnpike. I feel like most of the delays in that area come from having to go through Lakeville Rd, and it's not a particularly great area to have bus stops anyways.

I thought the Q46 going to LIJ had it easier on Lakeville Rd, at least compared to the n25 and n26. The map just doesn't do enough to show how weird the n25 is using NHP Rd> Union Tkpe>Lakeville Rd>Marcus Ave>back to Union Tkpe again just to get to NHP Rd in just to serve the Hospital both directions. (n26 has it slightly easier) I finally get that the serve different markets, but there has to be an easier way to get those routes to access LIJ in an easy manner.  The delays on Lakeville are coming from traffic on the NSP near the hospital.

Back the the Q46, I'm not sure if it's feasible to have it a one way loop using side streets to avoid Lakeville Rd.

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by NY1635

[78 via Stew Leonards]

Anyone here think the Q2 and Q8 should be combined into one route.

[Q43LTD]

No. Those are 2 completely  different routes. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

4 hours ago, 78 via Stew Leonards said:

Anyone here think the Q2 and Q8 should be combined into one route.

 

What service problem would that solve?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So I have my own version of enhancements in Western Queens. The current system (as most of us know) is in dire need of a revampment, because there are connectivity or service issues which need to be addressed. Here are the service changes planned for bus routes in this area:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7511705,-73.9436785,14.75z/data=!4m2!6m1!1s1Fu8xtoloySnLS3awzgiEe_5sqk-nUfi7

 

B32: Williamsburg to Roosevelt Island

The B32 on the southern end would be revamped using Grand Street and Havemeyer Street/Marcy Avenue to get to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza instead of Kent/Wythe to Broadway south of Grand Street. On the northern end, the service would serve Queens Plaza (only to maintain connections to the Broadway Line service), then run via Queens Plaza N/S & 21 Street, to 36 Street, and serve the southern portion of Roosevelt Island.

Here's the service span and frequency

Weekdays (7 AM to 11 PM NB, 6 AM to 10 PM SB):

15* AM, 20 Noon, 15 PM Eve, 30 Eve

(Between 6 AM and 7 AM, every other bus originates at Queens Plaza in the SB direction)

 

Saturdays (7 AM to 12 AM NB, 6 AM to 11 PM SB):

30 AM, 20 Noon, 20 PM, 20 Early Eve, 30 Late Eve

 

Sundays (8 AM to 10 PM NB, 7 AM to 9 PM SB)

30 AM, 20 Noon, 20 PM, 30 Eve

 

Q66: Astoria to Flushing

The current Q66 would be shortened to terminate at the 36 Avenue  Station. The Flushing-bound route would use 36 Avenue instead of 35 Avenue. Current short-turns at 51 Street would be maintained. 

 

Q67: Long Island City to Middle Village

Q68: Long Island City to Glendale

[/spoiler]

The current Q67 service would become two routes, the Q67 and Q68. The revised Q67 would skip industrial Maspeth, and make no stops between Maurice Avenue and 48 Street (WB) &  between Greenpoint Avenue and Maurice Avenue (EB). Service would operate during the AM and PM rush hours only, every 15 minutes. 

A new variant, the Q68, would make similar stops to the Q67, except that it goes eastward along Metropolitan Avenue, running to Glendale. This variant would operate as follows:

Weekdays: 15 AM, 30 Noon, 15 PM, 30 Eve

Saturday: Every 30 minutes

Sunday: Every 30 minutes

 

Because the Q67/Q68 will no longer be catered towards folks in industrial Maspeth, the Q67/Q68 will not have early morning service. The Q68 will run from about 5 AM to 11 PM Weekdays, 7 AM to 11 PM Saturdays, and 8 AM to 11 PM Sundays. 

[/spoiler]

Q69: Long Island City to Jackson Heights

Q100: Long Island City to Rikers Island

The current Q69 would be renamed the Q100 local, and would run from 21 Street and Ditmars Boulevard to Queens Plaza. The Q100 LIMITED would run from Rikers Island to Queens Plaza (both routes would follow the current Q69 path south of Queens Plaza South). The Q100 LIMITED would be rerouted to serve the Ditmars Boulevard  station. One current stop would be eliminated on the LIMITED, and one would be relocated. The eliminated stop would be served by Q100 locals. Another LIMITED stops would be added at Ditmars Boulevard/26 Street, Steinway Street/20 Avenue and Steinway Street/47 Street. 

Service would operate as follows:

Q100 Local (All Times)

Weekdays: 8 AM, 15 Noon, 9 PM, 12 Eve*, 60 Night*

Saturdays: 8 AM*, 15 Noon, 15 PM, 15-20 Eve*, 60 Night*

Sundays: 12 AM*, 15 Noon, 15 PM, 20 Eve*, 60 Night*

* Indicates full Q100 route from LIC to Rikers

 

Q100 LIMITED (6:30 AM-7:30 PM Weekdays, 10 AM to 6:30 PM Weekends)

Weekdays: 10 AM, 15 Noon, 12 PM

Saturdays: 12 Noon, 12 PM

Sundays:  10 Noon, 12 PM 

 

Q101: Long Island City to Astoria

The current Q101 would be rerouted to Ditmars Boulevard  Station. Service would be retained all times, as it currently is. South of 35 Avenue, the Q101 would operate along 35 Avenue, 31 Street, 36 Street, and 21 Street, then to Queens Plaza to replace the Q66. Service on the present alignment south of 35 Avenue would be eliminated.  Service frequency are as follows:

Weekdays: 10 AM, 15 Noon, 10 PM, 15 Evening, 60 Night

Saturdays: 20 AM, 15 Noon, 12 PM, 20 Evening, 60 Night

Sundays: 30 AM, 20 Noon, 20 PM, 30 Evening, 60 Night

 

Q102: Hunters Point to Jackson Heights

The current Q102 would be significantly revamped. The portion from 41 Road to 30 Avenue along 31 Street would remain, but there would be changes on both ends of the route. On the northern end of the route, the Q102 would continue along 31 Street to Ditmars Boulevard, then replace the Q69 to 82 Street and Astoria Blvd. On the southern end, the Q102 would continue down Jackson Avenue until 46 Avenue/46 Road. Buses would continue down Center Boulevard to the Ferry Dock. Service span and frequency are as follows:

Weekdays (5 AM to 12:30 AM^ SB/6 AM to 12:30 AM NB):

15 AM*, 20 Noon, 15 PM*, 20 Early Evening, 30 Late Evening

* Service between 31 Street and 82 Street is twice as frequent

^ After 11:30 PM, SB service terminates at 31 Street/Ditmars Boulevard

 

Saturdays (5 AM to 12:00 AM SB/6 AM to 1 AM NB):

30 Early AM, 20 AM,  15 Noon, 15 PM, 20 Early Evening, 30 Late Evening

 

Sundays (6 AM to 11:30 PM SB/ 7 AM to 12:30 AM NB): 

20 AM, 20 Noon, 20 PM, 30 Evening

 

Q103: Astoria to Hunters Point

Frequency increase in the PM (on weekdays) to every 15 minutes. 

 

Q104: Ravenswood to Ridgewood, via Bushwick, Brooklyn

The current Q104 would be extended from the current terminal at 48 Street  station to Ridgewood Terminal, via Bushwick. There are multiple reasons behind this service extension:

1. Sunnyside, Astoria, and portions of Bushwick are growing, and connecting these gentrifying neighborhoods would close a service gap

2. Provides transit options to some areas not currently served by NYCT or MTA bus in Industrial Bushwick or Industrial Maspeth

3. Replaces the Q67 in the Maspeth Industrial area

 

The Q104 would also help provide faster or more reliable connections to/from the  and/or  from Maspeth and Bushwick instead of relying on the Q39 or Q59. Note, although the Q104 replaces the Maspeth Industrial segment of the Q67, early morning service on weekdays would not be provided. This Q104 would preserve connections to the  and , and may decrease travel time for certain trips. Riders from Astoria or Woodside or Sunnyside to Bushwick and Ridgewood would also save time. The only way to do it current is by using the Q18 to the Q58. There's also no true north-south route in that general area either. 

 

Service Span and Frequency are as follows:

Weekdays (5 AM to 11 PM NB, 6 AM to 12 AM SB) :

15 AM, 20 Noon, 15 AM, 30 Eve

 

Saturdays (6 AM to 11 PM NB, 7 AM to 12 AM SB):

30 AM, 20 Noon, 15 PM, 20 Early Eve, 30 Late Eve

 

Sundays (7 AM to 11 PM NB, 8 AM to 12 AM SB):

30 AM, 20 Noon, 20 PM, 30 Evening

 

Thoughts?

[checkmatechamp13]

Was it really necessary to have all those spoiler tags? I felt like a magician pulling handkerchiefs out of his sleeve, or like it was a set of Russian dolls inside each other.

 

In any case, I like how you restructured the Q69/Q100/102. (I'd probably have some short-turns between Ditmars/31st & Jackson Heights). Your Q101 meanders too much, though. For all that, I'd rather see the Q66 terminate at 36th Avenue & 21st Street (to provide the Ravenswood Houses with direct east-west service that the Q104 doesn't really provide since it turns off at 48th Street. Plus you get the bonus of a transfer to your B32 to Roosevelt Island) and just leave the Q101 running as-is to Queens Plaza. 

I do like what you did with the Q104 (to replace the Q67 in that part of Maspeth). For those coming from Manhattan looking to reach that area, it would probably be quicker than taking the subway to Court Square for the Q39/67 (plus, it gives another section of Queens access to Ridgewood). Would the Q68 actually turn off to 58th Street or is that an error (would it follow your proposed Q67 to/from Van Dam Street?)

[GojiMet86]

Can't really speak for the B32, present-day Roosevelt Q102, Q67, proposed Q68, and that Q104 extension, and I am assuming the Q18, Q103, and others not shown are unchanged, so I'll stick to Astoria.

 

1. Q102: The levels of ridership are different at Jackson Heights vs. 31st Street, so service has to be twice as frequent as the rest of the line. Jackson Heights riders use the bus to get to the Ditmars station or to shop/eat on Ditmars. Current Q69 east-of-31st Street riders aren't really looking go anywhere below Ditmars/23rd Ave and on 31st Street though, so the Jackson Heights route might as well be the Q69 (or proposed Local/Limited Q100).

Now I MIGHT see this as a lower frequency line running all of 31st Street, and on 20th Avenue (not Ditmars, not necesarily all the way to Rikers) instead of the proposed Q100 Limited.

There should be something like this proposed Q102 on the south end.  I was a little too harsh on the Q105 that was proposed by NYCPlanning (basically it would be THE Steinway route and run to the LIC Ferry all the way on Jackson). I'm not sure how to weigh a line on 31st Street against one on Steinway, nor am I sure of how frequent this service should be (15-20 min in the AM rush, 30 min as is the current Q102 vs. something higher).

Perhaps the opposite of the proposed: Lower frequency on the north end (Rikers instead of Jackson Heights; for Jackson see below) and maybe short turns on the south end, between LIC and Queensboro.

 

2. Q100 Local: To be honest, you would be better off running it to Jackson Heights instead of ending it just 21st Avenue. Basically Q69, either on Ditmars or 20th Avenue.

Q100 Limited: Run it on Ditmars, maybe local the rest of the way to Jackson.

Basically the Q69 as it, with Local and Limited, with one going to Rikers with a 31st Street line (Q102 above).

 

3. Q101: If it's going to turn left unto Ditmars, it might as well go beyond 31st Street and go up on 21st Street to that enclave instead of the proposed Q100 Local. As for a turn around in that area, maybe northbound on Ditmars and then Shore, terminal somewhere there, and back south via 20th Ave and down 21st, unto Ditmars. But my impression has been that that area is not starving for transit. The Q69 is just a couple of blocks down.

As it is now though, speaking strictly of JUST bus-train connections, most people south of Astoria Blvd take the Q18/Q19/Q104/M60 from Steinway and points east to the . The proposed Q101 wouldn't do much for those people. I would say that a good chunk of northbound PM riders taking the current Q101 are Queens Blvd riders, and ridership tends to wittle down as it approaches Astoria Blvd (from the ). The triangle area bounded by Ditmars on top, Astoria Blvd on the south, and Hazen to the east is pretty well served as it is now.

I don't see much of a problem with it turning on 35th and 36th Avenues.

 

Astoria isn't that transit-starved enough to have many changes. Bunching on the Q69 is more of a problem. I still don't understand how it winds up with back-to-back buses on a SUNDAY. The subway could use a couple of extra trains in the rushes, but Ditmars terminal doesn't help with it (and neither do the delays, the breakdowns, the accidents, cheapness, etc).

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Was it really necessary to have all those spoiler tags? I felt like a magician pulling handkerchiefs out of his sleeve, or like it was a set of Russian dolls inside each other.

 

In any case, I like how you restructured the Q69/Q100/102. (I'd probably have some short-turns between Ditmars/31st & Jackson Heights). Your Q101 meanders too much, though. For all that, I'd rather see the Q66 terminate at 36th Avenue & 21st Street (to provide the Ravenswood Houses with direct east-west service that the Q104 doesn't really provide since it turns off at 48th Street. Plus you get the bonus of a transfer to your B32 to Roosevelt Island) and just leave the Q101 running as-is to Queens Plaza. 

I do like what you did with the Q104 (to replace the Q67 in that part of Maspeth). For those coming from Manhattan looking to reach that area, it would probably be quicker than taking the subway to Court Square for the Q39/67 (plus, it gives another section of Queens access to Ridgewood). Would the Q68 actually turn off to 58th Street or is that an error (would it follow your proposed Q67 to/from Van Dam Street?)

I did not intend to have the post come out like that (it shouldn't have). I just did not want to make the post insanely long (since there is quite a lot of text). 

 

Anyways, yes, the headways during the rush hour for the Q102 is every 15 minutes on the portion between the Ditmars Boulevard subway station and the LIC ferry. There would be a short-turn between the  and Jackson Heights also running every 15 minutes (so a bus every 7.5 minutes on that section). 

 

I made the Q101 serve 35 Avenue because I did not feel like leaving the Q101 on the current alignment south of 35 Avenue (it's very unproductive). At the very least, I would have it run along 35 Avenue to 31 Street, then take 31 Street down to Queens Plaza (serves more commercial areas which more people in the are likely headed to), if the Q66 terminates at the Ravenswood Houses.

I should basically a one-way of the Q67 and Q68. The WB routing is as displayed (while the EB follows the Q67). I'll make edits to reflect that so there isn't confusion.

1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said:

Can't really speak for the B32, present-day Roosevelt Q102, Q67, proposed Q68, and that Q104 extension, and I am assuming the Q18, Q103, and others not shown are unchanged, so I'll stick to Astoria.

 

1. Q102: The levels of ridership are different at Jackson Heights vs. 31st Street, so service has to be twice as frequent as the rest of the line. Jackson Heights riders use the bus to get to the Ditmars station or to shop/eat on Ditmars. Current Q69 east-of-31st Street riders aren't really looking go anywhere below Ditmars/23rd Ave and on 31st Street though, so the Jackson Heights route might as well be the Q69 (or proposed Local/Limited Q100).

Now I MIGHT see this as a lower frequency line running all of 31st Street, and on 20th Avenue (not Ditmars, not necesarily all the way to Rikers) instead of the proposed Q100 Limited.

There should be something like this proposed Q102 on the south end.  I was a little too harsh on the Q105 that was proposed by NYCPlanning (basically it would be THE Steinway route and run to the LIC Ferry all the way on Jackson). I'm not sure how to weigh a line on 31st Street against one on Steinway, nor am I sure of how frequent this service should be (15-20 min in the AM rush, 30 min as is the current Q102 vs. something higher).

Perhaps the opposite of the proposed: Lower frequency on the north end (Rikers instead of Jackson Heights; for Jackson see below) and maybe short turns on the south end, between LIC and Queensboro.

 

2. Q100 Local: To be honest, you would be better off running it to Jackson Heights instead of ending it just 21st Avenue. Basically Q69, either on Ditmars or 20th Avenue.

Q100 Limited: Run it on Ditmars, maybe local the rest of the way to Jackson.

Basically the Q69 as it, with Local and Limited, with one going to Rikers with a 31st Street line (Q102 above).

 

3. Q101: If it's going to turn left unto Ditmars, it might as well go beyond 31st Street and go up on 21st Street to that enclave instead of the proposed Q100 Local. As for a turn around in that area, maybe northbound on Ditmars and then Shore, terminal somewhere there, and back south via 20th Ave and down 21st, unto Ditmars. But my impression has been that that area is not starving for transit. The Q69 is just a couple of blocks down.

As it is now though, speaking strictly of JUST bus-train connections, most people south of Astoria Blvd take the Q18/Q19/Q104/M60 from Steinway and points east to the . The proposed Q101 wouldn't do much for those people. I would say that a good chunk of northbound PM riders taking the current Q101 are Queens Blvd riders, and ridership tends to wittle down as it approaches Astoria Blvd (from the ). The triangle area bounded by Ditmars on top, Astoria Blvd on the south, and Hazen to the east is pretty well served as it is now.

I don't see much of a problem with it turning on 35th and 36th Avenues.

 

Astoria isn't that transit-starved enough to have many changes. Bunching on the Q69 is more of a problem. I still don't understand how it winds up with back-to-back buses on a SUNDAY. The subway could use a couple of extra trains in the rushes, but Ditmars terminal doesn't help with it (and neither do the delays, the breakdowns, the accidents, cheapness, etc).

Q102: Yeah, the Ditmars leg will see double the service during rush hours. Other times, the proposed frequencies will be similar to Q69 service. I'm not maintaining the current Q102 frequencies. 

Q100 Local/Limited: The reason for maintaining the Q100 local along 21 Street for the most part was to address reliability concerns (which I have seen as well). While the local would remain on 21 Street, the goal is to improve reliability on that corridor. Also, I didn't explain why I reduced the span of the LTD, but basically it makes no sense to have a LTD bus running every 30-60 minutes with an infrequent local (you might as well make the service all local so more people benefit from said change). 

Q101: I actually had it doing it, but then decided against it (for that reason, more or less). My other proposal was to send it up Steinway up to Berrian Blvd to serve that Industrial zone which is away from the Q100. The Q101 reroute was more to benefit north-south riders instead of east-west riders. 

Since the Q101 would be the more frequent of two options, perhaps instead of having Q102 short-turns on the southern portion, maybe flip-flop the service patterns (Q101 to the Ferry, Q102 terminates at Queens Plaza). I chose the Q102 since it needs the ridership more than Q101, and 31 Street is somewhat "centralized". 

[B35 via Church]

Sorry, but I just looked at the map; not going through with this mess, unveiling spoiler tags within spoiler tags right now....

* Q67/Q68 (as in, BOTH routes) I don't see as being necessary.... The problem I have with the (real) Q67 is that it has the potential to be a commuter local, but it doesn't reach enough people in the general pocket of Queens it serves..... You cannot justify having split pairs along a route like the Q67 - although you (may) feel the same way I do (about the real Q67's stubbed reach/catchment area), but also want to keep the connection for those schoolkids (and others) that utilize the thing at-and-west of the (M).... Don't know what service levels you're giving both of these routes, but regardless, I personally would have no problem sacrificing the Q67 to keep your "Q68" instead....

Extending Q67's past QBP just reminded me of that "Western Queens Transportation Study" that was proposed a couple of years ago.... IMO, there's no reason for a route like the Q67 running north of QBP - esp. when you have the B32 doing it.... I can't see much of anyone east of Hunterspoint wanting service past Court Sq....

* B32 extension northward, generally speaking, I don't have a problem with.... I personally wouldn't send it to Roosevelt Island, but whatevs.... LOL at the diversion to get to WBP though; I still don't think it should run to WBP, but I do favor this routing of yours over the current routing.... Makes the thing more useful.... It's why I'd swing it/divert it over to Met. av ....

* Q66 I get the logic behind keeping the connection to the Astoria line, but I think there's more of an onus to address the demand to/from Flushing..... I don't think the connection to the Q66 from off the (N)(W) is significant.... The western end of the Q66 tends to transport stragglers, outside of folks using it supplementally along 21st.... At the bare minimum (which is actually saying a lot... lol), the MTA should have way more short turns than they do now.... There are simply too many Q66's running to QBP....

* Q104... Your title on the map says Ravenswood to Greenpoint, but you have it running b/w Ravenswood & Ridgewood Terminal.... Anyway, the Q104 I would run to Roosevelt Island instead; the current WB terminal is antiquated & on top of it, there's actually demand for commercial Steinway st for/from them....

The only thing I really see your Q104 extension southward accomplishing, is cutting commuting times to get to the (instead of folks taking Q67's) from industrial Maspeth (& vice versa).... Those sanitation trucks start arriving in clusters along Varick & buses are toast (in terms of reliability/runtime).... I envision buses carrying quite a bit of air past south of Grand.... You may get people xferring off Q59's to get to industrial Maspeth (I used to take the B44 to the Q59 & walk along some of that portion of your Q104 co-incidentally, when I had an assignment out there - back then, Grand av depot didn't exist).... I get wanting to increase connectivity, but Q104's to Ridgewood I don't helping much of anyone..... Even if you wanted to connect it to the for some reason, you could have it do so at Montrose & call it a day - but I wouldn't even do that....

* Q100 (local/LTD)... I like the consolidation attempt of the (real) Q69/Q100 in general.... However, I wouldn't have both the locals and the LTD's doing that backtrack from QBP to serve Court sq. (well, I wouldn't have it doing it period; it's one of the things I hate w/ the current Q69 altogether)... If you absolutely had to do it though, I'd choose the locals for it, and the LTD's run straight out of QBP (basically, the current scenario w/ the Q69/Q100)....

* Q101... Personally, I'd have the Steinway st. route go 31st st > 35th av > Steinway st, etc. instead of using it to connect 21st st to commercial Steinway st.... But I have to admit, the latter is not a bad idea to want to accomplish.... I don't think it's (35th av > 31st st > 36th av) worth it though to connect it to 36th av station; I'd have it parallel the Q66 route b/w Steinway st. & QBP.... If they want the Astoria line, let them catch it at QBP; from 21st st. to QBP will be quick anyway... You don't need the route connecting to the Astoria line at Ditmars, 36th, and QBP.....

* Q102... The only thing I like about this idea is the fact that it wouldn't have whatever the 21st st local is (i.e, the real Q69 or your Q100 local) swinging over to the outskirts of LGA.... I don't like the idea of a 31st st route at all (to me, it's akin to a would-be McDonald av route); I'd worry about its patronage.... Lastly, the connection to that newly constructed pocket of HuntersPoint/the ferry area I would actually try to connect areas like Sunnyside & residential Maspeth to....

The Q69 east of Steinway I'd append to the Q101 for not much more than simple coverage.... Anyone that lives in that part of Jackson Heights does the Q19/M60 thing to the subway anyway.....

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

-- Anyways, yes, the headways during the rush hour for the Q102 is every 15 minutes on the portion between the Ditmars Boulevard subway station and the LIC ferry. There would be a short-turn between the  and Jackson Heights also running every 15 minutes (so a bus every 7.5 minutes on that section).

- I made the Q101 serve 35 Avenue because I did not feel like leaving the Q101 on the current alignment south of 35 Avenue (it's very unproductive). At the very least, I would have it run along 35 Avenue to 31 Street, then take 31 Street down to Queens Plaza (serves more commercial areas which more people in the are likely headed to), if the Q66 terminates at the Ravenswood Houses.

See, that's part of the problem I have with a 31st st route.... You may not want to keep current Q102 headways (which is admirable), but at the same time, it sounds like you're over-serving 31st st with that amt. of service (as sad as that sounds); there are better ways to distribute resources in any restructuring of bus service in Western Queens.... Having buses serve more of 31st st to the north, serve the western-most portion of Hunterspoint, and serve that pocket of Steinway (the neighborhood) the Q69 serves won't garner enough ridership to justify supplying as much BPH throughout the day that you would.... 31st st itself lacks any points of interest.... I personally wouldn't choose the 102 to serve that pocket of Steinway en route to/from 82nd/Astoria....

I find it funny (sarcastically speaking) that Q69's seem to vanish into thin air in Jackson Heights & Steinway (the neighborhood), but buses miraculously bunch like shit along 21st st..... I'll never understand it.... That's one reason I can side with your Q100 local....

I'm with you regarding the Q101 b/w [QBP] & [Northern/Steinway]; I just don't care for tying that into wanting to maintain a connection along 35th and/or 36th between Steinway st & 21st st as much as you do..... You say you'd have the Q101 do 35th av > 31st st > QBP (at the very least) w/ the stipulation of having the Q66 end at the Ravenswood Houses..... That makes zero sense to me, because those folks (and most other residents of the neighborhood that don't live in the PJ's) don't want access to the Q66 for points east; they want it towards QBP.... Running the Q66 past, say, 48th/Northern towards QBP is a waste of time & resources.... This is where your proposed Q101 makes sense, but I think you're over-emphasizing 35th/36th streets....

Edited December 2, 2017 by B35 via Church

[Eric B]

If they were to add a parallel line to the Q67, it should be to have one running more straight. I've always discussed the 67 and the 39; to straighten one out, and have the other pick up the remaining little pocket skipped by straightening out the first one.

 

Like in this case, I would have the 39 run straight down Rust St. and then perhaps pick up a route like the one being suggested for the 104. 

Or, perhaps run this 68 straight down Rust, and then toward Metropolitan.

[B35 via Church]

So after coming from Westchester last night, I decided to take the M60 to Steinway (I had wanted to stop off in that Burger King by Astoria blvd subway, but I looked out the window & saw that it was packed & said screw that (and stayed on the bus)).... IDK why, but I thought the Q101 had better headways than that on a saturday (every 1/2 hour).... It was 5:31 when I got off the M60... Crossed over to the other side of Astoria blvd to the Q101 SB stop; looked at the schedule & started walking towards Ditmars.... I was on the NW corner looking to see which of the 2 (Q101, Q69) would arrive first & sure enough, it was the SB Q69 at 6 on the dot (so it's a good thing I did that walk).... It was around 5:45 when a NB Q101 passed by as I was walking up to ditmars... I jokingly said, that's probably the next bus back out.... Now that I'm typing this, it might not have been a joke - which meant I would've been waiting for the that 101 at least 10-15 mins. after I got on the Q69....

I will admit that I'm surprised that commercial Ditmars blvd. was as bustling as it was last night.... Good for that community....

The one thing that kind of shocked me wasn't the amt. of the ppl. on the Q69 before I boarded (about 15-20), nor was it the amt. of ppl. that got on at 31st (about 20-25) - it was the amt. of people that got off at 21st/Ditmars.... We went from about 40 something ppl. on the bus, to 11 people (yeah, I counted).... By time we got to Astoria blvd, there was only 6 people left - Until the b/o opened the doors & we got hit with those loads there.... SRO conditions....

This bus tanked worse at 21st than it did at 21st/Ditmars.... There were only a whopping 4 people left (from about 50 or so).

Then I ended up dealing with the same never ending crap with the B62 (I didn't feel like getting off the Q69 & walking down for the B32).... Seeing 5 buses over a 15 min. span make the turn onto 42nd rd, etc. en route to the last dropoff stop - to seeing those same 5 B62's do the turnaround scenario and every single one of em go OOS.... Ridiculous.... The bus I eventually got on (it had the Downtown Brooklyn signage up, but there was no one on it - so I'm thinking that was a bus that came from the depot) took 23 mins. to show.... I don't get it.... This is definitely operations related & nothing anomalous, because it's been going on for years now....

------------

Regarding the Q101, those riders are getting highway robbed.... There is no way that Q101 service should be on par with Q102's on weekends.... It would be one thing if it were service every 30 mins. to Manhattan, but 30 mins overall? I've (been) come to the conclusion that there are too many BPH supplied on the Q69+Q100 combined... I'm more than convinced that is the root cause of the downright lack of service on other routes in Western Queens...

Misallocation.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 12/2/2017 at 9:23 AM, B35 via Church said:

Sorry, but I just looked at the map; not going through with this mess, unveiling spoiler tags within spoiler tags right now....

* Q67/Q68 (as in, BOTH routes) I don't see as being necessary.... The problem I have with the (real) Q67 is that it has the potential to be a commuter local, but it doesn't reach enough people in the general pocket of Queens it serves..... You cannot justify having split pairs along a route like the Q67 - although you (may) feel the same way I do (about the real Q67's stubbed reach/catchment area), but also want to keep the connection for those schoolkids (and others) that utilize the thing at-and-west of the (M).... Don't know what service levels you're giving both of these routes, but regardless, I personally would have no problem sacrificing the Q67 to keep your "Q68" instead....

Extending Q67's past QBP just reminded me of that "Western Queens Transportation Study" that was proposed a couple of years ago.... IMO, there's no reason for a route like the Q67 running north of QBP - esp. when you have the B32 doing it.... I can't see much of anyone east of Hunterspoint wanting service past Court Sq....

* B32 extension northward, generally speaking, I don't have a problem with.... I personally wouldn't send it to Roosevelt Island, but whatevs.... LOL at the diversion to get to WBP though; I still don't think it should run to WBP, but I do favor this routing of yours over the current routing.... Makes the thing more useful.... It's why I'd swing it/divert it over to Met. av ....

* Q66 I get the logic behind keeping the connection to the Astoria line, but I think there's more of an onus to address the demand to/from Flushing..... I don't think the connection to the Q66 from off the (N)(W) is significant.... The western end of the Q66 tends to transport stragglers, outside of folks using it supplementally along 21st.... At the bare minimum (which is actually saying a lot... lol), the MTA should have way more short turns than they do now.... There are simply too many Q66's running to QBP....

* Q104... Your title on the map says Ravenswood to Greenpoint, but you have it running b/w Ravenswood & Ridgewood Terminal.... Anyway, the Q104 I would run to Roosevelt Island instead; the current WB terminal is antiquated & on top of it, there's actually demand for commercial Steinway st for/from them....

The only thing I really see your Q104 extension southward accomplishing, is cutting commuting times to get to the (instead of folks taking Q67's) from industrial Maspeth (& vice versa).... Those sanitation trucks start arriving in clusters along Varick & buses are toast (in terms of reliability/runtime).... I envision buses carrying quite a bit of air past south of Grand.... You may get people xferring off Q59's to get to industrial Maspeth (I used to take the B44 to the Q59 & walk along some of that portion of your Q104 co-incidentally, when I had an assignment out there - back then, Grand av depot didn't exist).... I get wanting to increase connectivity, but Q104's to Ridgewood I don't helping much of anyone..... Even if you wanted to connect it to the for some reason, you could have it do so at Montrose & call it a day - but I wouldn't even do that....

* Q100 (local/LTD)... I like the consolidation attempt of the (real) Q69/Q100 in general.... However, I wouldn't have both the locals and the LTD's doing that backtrack from QBP to serve Court sq. (well, I wouldn't have it doing it period; it's one of the things I hate w/ the current Q69 altogether)... If you absolutely had to do it though, I'd choose the locals for it, and the LTD's run straight out of QBP (basically, the current scenario w/ the Q69/Q100)....

* Q101... Personally, I'd have the Steinway st. route go 31st st > 35th av > Steinway st, etc. instead of using it to connect 21st st to commercial Steinway st.... But I have to admit, the latter is not a bad idea to want to accomplish.... I don't think it's (35th av > 31st st > 36th av) worth it though to connect it to 36th av station; I'd have it parallel the Q66 route b/w Steinway st. & QBP.... If they want the Astoria line, let them catch it at QBP; from 21st st. to QBP will be quick anyway... You don't need the route connecting to the Astoria line at Ditmars, 36th, and QBP.....

* Q102... The only thing I like about this idea is the fact that it wouldn't have whatever the 21st st local is (i.e, the real Q69 or your Q100 local) swinging over to the outskirts of LGA.... I don't like the idea of a 31st st route at all (to me, it's akin to a would-be McDonald av route); I'd worry about its patronage.... Lastly, the connection to that newly constructed pocket of HuntersPoint/the ferry area I would actually try to connect areas like Sunnyside & residential Maspeth to....

The Q69 east of Steinway I'd append to the Q101 for not much more than simple coverage.... Anyone that lives in that part of Jackson Heights does the Q19/M60 thing to the subway anyway.....

Q67/Q68: The "Roosevelt Island" title was actually incorrect. I modified my plans before releasing it, and I forgot to update that. Originally, the Q102 went to Brooklyn, while the Q67 went to Roosevelt Island (the Q68 would exist in both proposals). 

Regardless, the Q67 under this proposal would run only during the rush hours, every 15 minutes. The Q68 would operate at all other times, operating every 15 minutes during the rush, and every 30 minutes during all other periods it runs (5 AM-11 PM). The rush hour headway brings it close to the current Q67 (but just a tad bit frequent, by like half a minute). 

Q66:  I see what you're saying, although I think that there should be a connection for service northward. The Q104 connection does provide some service to other destinations north of 35th, however a connection with the Q101 would be sufficient enough to serve areas that people might want to go to (Northward). I would definently maintain the current short-turns if the Q66 is shortened, and I would be willing to place more short-turns if necessary. 

Q104: The Q104 does provide connectivity, but the reason I routed it via Bushwick en-route towards Ridegwood was to connect the areas of Bushwick (which have gentrified) and connect them to Sunnyside and Astoria. Such trips involve the to the to the (7), or going through Manhattan and disembarking at Union Square for the or (W).  

I expect some people to switch from the Q59 to the Q104 in order to get to the so that their trips are faster (like those living in ENY or Brownsville). Plus, the Q59 tends to be unreliable too. Those who transfer to the though will not likely find it so convenient. Ridgewood Terminal was chosen so that people in Maspeth have connections to the (M). It would take just as long as the current Q67 to the to get to Ridgewood. For some, it may mean not having to even transfer to the in the first place, or walking to/from the Q58.

 

Q100: I guess since the connections are already made at Queens Plaza, it may just make sense to send the route via 42 Road from Queens Plaza altogether.

You've made some points about too much service on the line, and if you look at the service provided, for the most part, BPH is less than before (but the service looks more frequent). Now, evening periods definitely see a service reduction, as the LTD service is eliminated, and one of those buses lost is made into a local (so the local is more frequent, and more people benefit). Like I mentioned previously, it makes no sense to operate LTD service every hour or every half-hour if the local is infrequent to begin with. 

Q101: The change from 35 Avenue to 36 Avenue at 31 Street is not actually for the Astoria Line (since connections to Broadway Line service exists at Steinway Street , but to better serve the little commercial area around that station. I guess it can be negligible if it stays on 35 Street to 21 Street. 36 Avenue is just a block from 35 Avenue, so that isn't a problem (if that commercial area didn't exist, I would have kept the Q101 straight along 35 Avenue). 

Q102: It'll provide a faster ride towards QBP I guess. However, there are some commercial areas where the subway stops are (along 31 Street), so the thought was for people going to/from those areas to have the Q102 to head north, to Queens Plaza, or down to Hunters Point. 

On 12/2/2017 at 10:06 AM, B35 via Church said:

See, that's part of the problem I have with a 31st st route.... You may not want to keep current Q102 headways (which is admirable), but at the same time, it sounds like you're over-serving 31st st with that amt. of service (as sad as that sounds); there are better ways to distribute resources in any restructuring of bus service in Western Queens.... Having buses serve more of 31st st to the north, serve the western-most portion of Hunterspoint, and serve that pocket of Steinway (the neighborhood) the Q69 serves won't garner enough ridership to justify supplying as much BPH throughout the day that you would.... 31st st itself lacks any points of interest.... I personally wouldn't choose the 102 to serve that pocket of Steinway en route to/from 82nd/Astoria....

I find it funny (sarcastically speaking) that Q69's seem to vanish into thin air in Jackson Heights & Steinway (the neighborhood), but buses miraculously bunch like shit along 21st st..... I'll never understand it.... That's one reason I can side with your Q100 local....

I'm with you regarding the Q101 b/w [QBP] & [Northern/Steinway]; I just don't care for tying that into wanting to maintain a connection along 35th and/or 36th between Steinway st & 21st st as much as you do..... You say you'd have the Q101 do 35th av > 31st st > QBP (at the very least) w/ the stipulation of having the Q66 end at the Ravenswood Houses..... That makes zero sense to me, because those folks (and most other residents of the neighborhood that don't live in the PJ's) don't want access to the Q66 for points east; they want it towards QBP.... Running the Q66 past, say, 48th/Northern towards QBP is a waste of time & resources.... This is where your proposed Q101 makes sense, but I think you're over-emphasizing 35th/36th streets....

I mean, I don't disagree with what you're saying about the Q66. Either way, like I said, the Q101 would serve 35th from Steinway just to make it easier to reach areas along 35 Avenue. The northern section does that too (connects to the area around the Ditmars Boulevard station, not necessarily for connections). 

 

Now, what could happen is that the Q101 is sent down via 31 Street, to QBP, then goes down to Hunters Point.