Jump to content


Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Q43LTD

Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

Recommended Posts

The thing about the Q48 Most airport traffic generally goes to Corona while most normal riders ride between Flushing and Corona. While the Q48 ridership isn't that good going into the airport it is the only Eastward connection from the airport. While wast of Van Wyck might not have too many airport workers I wouldn't be too surprised if people would come from College Point or Great Neck. Buses in those areas tend to carry a lot of working-class people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reposting this for reference purposes... Comment on anything here if you wish.

This is regarding the Union Tpke express routes.... To summarize, I have an issue with the collective structure of the routes.... When it was the Qm1/a, you had the "Qm1" routes running from Fresh Meadows (to midtown or downtown) & the "Qm1a" routes running from either Glen Oaks or Lake Success (NST) (to midtown or downtown).... Even though the nomenclature's changed for the differing variants, the structure is still basically the same - The midtown routes have the Qm1 as a short turn variant to the Qm6, and the Qm5 as a Glen Oaks variant of the Qm6.... The downtown routes have the Qm7 running to Fresh Meadows & the Qm8 picking up the rest of the slack (east of Fresh Meadows)....

AFAIC, the Qm1/Qm7 doesn't do enough & the Qm5/8 does too much IMO.... I personally abhor the comprehensive Qm5/8 routing anyway & FWIW, they shouldn't be making stops west of Fresh Meadows along Union Tpke. when the Qm1/7 only run as far as Fresh Meadows on top of it.... Something else that also bugs me, is the fact that Union Tpke east of Fresh Meadows doesn't have direct downtown service - that is, until you get to the last stop of the Qm5 (Union Tpke/260th)....

I'd aim to change a lot of this....
(side note: The corresponding 3rd av services for the three Midtown (6th av) variants would undergo the same corresponding outerborough routing changes)

Qm1 - Midtown Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Springfield/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm5 - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, Springfield, HHE
Qm6 (Glen Oaks branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, 260th st, LNP
Qm6 (Lake Success branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke
Qm7 - Lower Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Cloverdale/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm8 - Lower Manhattan to Little Neck (Douglaston Plaza shopping ctr) via Union Tpke, 260th, LNP, HHE, Douglaston pkwy.

In map form:
* Midtown routes - Qm1/5/6 map link
* Downtown routes - Qm7/8 map link
(each route displayed on either map is on its own separate "layer", so if you want to view a specific route individually, you'll have to deselect the layers (routes) you don't want to view.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2018 at 3:27 PM, B35 via Church said:

AFAIC, the Qm1/Qm7 doesn't do enough & the Qm5/8 does too much IMO.... I personally abhor the comprehensive Qm5/8 routing anyway & FWIW, they shouldn't be making stops west of Fresh Meadows along Union Tpke. when the Qm1/7 only run as far as Fresh Meadows on top of it.... Something else that also bugs me, is the fact that Union Tpke east of Fresh Meadows doesn't have direct downtown service - that is, until you get to the last stop of the Qm5 (Union Tpke/260th)....

I'd aim to change a lot of this....
(side note: The corresponding 3rd av services for the three Midtown (6th av) variants would undergo the same corresponding outerborough routing changes)

Qm1 - Midtown Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Springfield/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm5 - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, Springfield, HHE
Qm6 (Glen Oaks branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, 260th st, LNP
Qm6 (Lake Success branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke
Qm7 - Lower Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Cloverdale/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm8 - Lower Manhattan to Little Neck (Douglaston Plaza shopping ctr) via Union Tpke, 260th, LNP, HHE, Douglaston pkwy.

In map form:
* Midtown routes - Qm1/5/6 map link
* Downtown routes - Qm7/8 map link
(each route displayed on either map is on its own separate "layer", so if you want to view a specific route individually, you'll have to deselect the layers (routes) you don't want to view.)

IIRC, they said the NST-Downtown QM1As didn't become QM9s because they weren't carrying well and people could x-fer at Chevy. I agree that the Qm1/7 don't do enough, I'm just curious about a few things:

1. How do you set the headways? Going off the maps, I'm envisioning a service cut between Glen Oaks/LN Plaza (fine) but too much service on Union 188-Springfield (QM5/6/6G) and not enough on 73 Av (Qm1).

2. Why not start the QM1 at Cloverdale? I know the QM5 won't need the coverage but I imagine trying to layover at Springfield/HHE is going to be a pain.

3. How much time does going in the reverse direction cut off the QM8?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2018 at 3:27 PM, B35 via Church said:

Reposting this for reference purposes... Comment on anything here if you wish.

This is regarding the Union Tpke express routes.... To summarize, I have an issue with the collective structure of the routes.... When it was the Qm1/a, you had the "Qm1" routes running from Fresh Meadows (to midtown or downtown) & the "Qm1a" routes running from either Glen Oaks or Lake Success (NST) (to midtown or downtown).... Even though the nomenclature's changed for the differing variants, the structure is still basically the same - The midtown routes have the Qm1 as a short turn variant to the Qm6, and the Qm5 as a Glen Oaks variant of the Qm6.... The downtown routes have the Qm7 running to Fresh Meadows & the Qm8 picking up the rest of the slack (east of Fresh Meadows)....

AFAIC, the Qm1/Qm7 doesn't do enough & the Qm5/8 does too much IMO.... I personally abhor the comprehensive Qm5/8 routing anyway & FWIW, they shouldn't be making stops west of Fresh Meadows along Union Tpke. when the Qm1/7 only run as far as Fresh Meadows on top of it.... Something else that also bugs me, is the fact that Union Tpke east of Fresh Meadows doesn't have direct downtown service - that is, until you get to the last stop of the Qm5 (Union Tpke/260th)....

I'd aim to change a lot of this....
(side note: The corresponding 3rd av services for the three Midtown (6th av) variants would undergo the same corresponding outerborough routing changes)

Qm1 - Midtown Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Springfield/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm5 - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, Springfield, HHE
Qm6 (Glen Oaks branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, 260th st, LNP
Qm6 (Lake Success branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke
Qm7 - Lower Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Cloverdale/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm8 - Lower Manhattan to Little Neck (Douglaston Plaza shopping ctr) via Union Tpke, 260th, LNP, HHE, Douglaston pkwy.

In map form:
* Midtown routes - Qm1/5/6 map link
* Downtown routes - Qm7/8 map link
(each route displayed on either map is on its own separate "layer", so if you want to view a specific route individually, you'll have to deselect the layers (routes) you don't want to view.)

I agree with Q43... I'm curious about how you work out the frequencies. I think that the QM1 and QM7 terminate where they do to serve those Fresh Meadows apartment buildings, and it seems as if the (MTA) goes out of their way to serve it off-peak too. Could be some sort of agreement that they had back in the day.  I'm wondering how much ridership comes from that and if they really need to short turn all QM1 and QM7 buses there?  I think a big reason for that also though is the run time.  The (MTA) seems to like keeping a lot of its express bus trips at an hour or less overall, and both the QM1 and QM7 fit that mold, so the question is how do you cut down run times? That's one of main issues that hurts the QM express buses because Queens is so damn big and those express buses have to cover a lot of ground. I definitely think you can address part of that by having the QM6 make fewer stops along Turnpike (and do the same with the QM5 too), but then of course you have to address how much ridership can you maximize on going towards Glen Oaks and the North Shore Towers.  I don't think the North Shore Towers pulls enough, and neither does Glen Oaks.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2018 at 3:27 PM, B35 via Church said:

Reposting this for reference purposes... Comment on anything here if you wish.

This is regarding the Union Tpke express routes.... To summarize, I have an issue with the collective structure of the routes.... When it was the Qm1/a, you had the "Qm1" routes running from Fresh Meadows (to midtown or downtown) & the "Qm1a" routes running from either Glen Oaks or Lake Success (NST) (to midtown or downtown).... Even though the nomenclature's changed for the differing variants, the structure is still basically the same - The midtown routes have the Qm1 as a short turn variant to the Qm6, and the Qm5 as a Glen Oaks variant of the Qm6.... The downtown routes have the Qm7 running to Fresh Meadows & the Qm8 picking up the rest of the slack (east of Fresh Meadows)....

AFAIC, the Qm1/Qm7 doesn't do enough & the Qm5/8 does too much IMO.... I personally abhor the comprehensive Qm5/8 routing anyway & FWIW, they shouldn't be making stops west of Fresh Meadows along Union Tpke. when the Qm1/7 only run as far as Fresh Meadows on top of it.... Something else that also bugs me, is the fact that Union Tpke east of Fresh Meadows doesn't have direct downtown service - that is, until you get to the last stop of the Qm5 (Union Tpke/260th)....

I'd aim to change a lot of this....
(side note: The corresponding 3rd av services for the three Midtown (6th av) variants would undergo the same corresponding outerborough routing changes)

Qm1 - Midtown Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Springfield/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm5 - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, Springfield, HHE
Qm6 (Glen Oaks branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke, 260th st, LNP
Qm6 (Lake Success branch) - Midtown Manhattan to Little Neck (LNP/HHE) via Union Tpke
Qm7 - Lower Manhattan to Oakland Gardens (Cloverdale/HHE) via Fresh Meadows, via 73rd av
Qm8 - Lower Manhattan to Little Neck (Douglaston Plaza shopping ctr) via Union Tpke, 260th, LNP, HHE, Douglaston pkwy.

In map form:
* Midtown routes - Qm1/5/6 map link
* Downtown routes - Qm7/8 map link
(each route displayed on either map is on its own separate "layer", so if you want to view a specific route individually, you'll have to deselect the layers (routes) you don't want to view.)

I'm getting a 404 error was the map removed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

IIRC, they said the NST-Downtown QM1As didn't become QM9s because they weren't carrying well and people could x-fer at Chevy. I agree that the Qm1/7 don't do enough, I'm just curious about a few things:

1. How do you set the headways? Going off the maps, I'm envisioning a service cut between Glen Oaks/LN Plaza (fine) but too much service on Union 188-Springfield (QM5/6/6G) and not enough on 73 Av (Qm1).

2. Why not start the QM1 at Cloverdale? I know the QM5 won't need the coverage but I imagine trying to layover at Springfield/HHE is going to be a pain.

3. How much time does going in the reverse direction cut off the QM8?

I would agree with/envision a direct NST-downtown route carrying lackadaisically - which is why I never suggested that.... But I do think more of Union Tpke (east of 188th) should have direct downtown service.....

As for your bullet points/inquiries:

1] I haven't thought about/drummed up any actual scheduling/headway plans, but what I can tell you is that there wouldn't be any service cuts.... The whole goal was centered around rearranging how the Union Tpke. expresses are set up..... You may see it as a shortage along 73rd & overkill along Union (b/w 188th & Springfield), but I see it as anything but (what you're saying with that)... Why? Because I believe Oakland Gardens should be getting just as much service as Fresh Meadows (hence, the introduction of having a bus (the Qm5 in my scenario/plan) serving more of Springfield)..... I don't proclaim to know whether this is true or false, but I can't fathom all (or the lion's share of) that ridership in Oakland Gdns. are of people north of 73rd.....

2] You're right - which is why I wouldn't have QM1's on layover at Springfield itself (that wasn't my intent at all).... They'd layover along HHE (south end) anywhere between Bell & Springfield (akin to the Qm4 that has buses on layover anywhere along HHE b/w Parsons & 164th)...

3] Don't understand what you're asking here...

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I agree with Q43... I'm curious about how you work out the frequencies. I think that the QM1 and QM7 terminate where they do to serve those Fresh Meadows apartment buildings, and it seems as if the (MTA) goes out of their way to serve it off-peak too. Could be some sort of agreement that they had back in the day.  I'm wondering how much ridership comes from that and if they really need to short turn all QM1 and QM7 buses there?  I think a big reason for that also though is the run time.  The (MTA) seems to like keeping a lot of its express bus trips at an hour or less overall, and both the QM1 and QM7 fit that mold, so the question is how do you cut down run times? That's one of main issues that hurts the QM express buses because Queens is so damn big and those express buses have to cover a lot of ground. I definitely think you can address part of that by having the QM6 make fewer stops along Turnpike (and do the same with the QM5 too), but then of course you have to address how much ridership can you maximize on going towards Glen Oaks and the North Shore Towers.  I don't think the North Shore Towers pulls enough, and neither does Glen Oaks.

Yes, the QM1/7 ends at Fresh Meadows there to serve those apartments along/around 188th & that's part of the problem I have with that setup.... I'm all for short turns, but that is overkill (always felt that way, even before the nomenclature change).... Now I wouldn't mind if some trips ended there, but every trip? And on top of that, having the QM5/8 go around the river & through the woods (figuratively speaking) to serve the rest of eastern Queens? Pardon my french, but that routing the Qm5/8 has is the MTA being f***ing cheap.... I don't see how those patrons put up w/ the Qm5/8 every day; if I lived out there (say, east of the CIP) & worked in Manhattan, I would drive.... Having to sit in QB traffic coming home, and then to have to endure a million & one people embarking/disembarking before we even get halfway up Union Tpke.... Nah, I just couldn't.

Even if you throw my routing ideas to the wayside, lessening the amount of stops the Qm5/6/8 makes along Union Tpke should be considered at minimum.

The fact that NST & Glen Oaks doesn't pull enough on its own, is the reason I believe they have Qm5/6/8's making all those stops along Union Tpke in Kew Gdns. Hills & Hillcrest..... It's a wonder why those buses don't pull enough on its own... Chicken & egg scenario.

1 hour ago, IAlam said:

I'm getting a 404 error was the map removed?

I hope not

Nope... Just checked both of them... They're still there.

Edited by B35 via Church

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I would agree with/envision a direct NST-downtown route carrying lackadaisically - which is why I never suggested that.... But I do think more of Union Tpke (east of 188th) should have direct downtown service.....

As for your bullet points/inquiries:

1] I haven't thought about/drummed up any actual scheduling/headway plans, but what I can tell you is that there wouldn't be any service cuts.... The whole goal was centered around rearranging how the Union Tpke. expresses are set up..... You may see it as a shortage along 73rd & overkill along Union (b/w 188th & Springfield), but I see it as anything but (what you're saying with that)... Why? Because I believe Oakland Gardens should be getting just as much service as Fresh Meadows (hence, the introduction of having a bus (the Qm5 in my scenario/plan) serving more of Springfield)..... I don't proclaim to know whether this is true or false, but I can't fathom all (or the lion's share of) that ridership in Oakland Gdns. are of people north of 73rd.....

2] You're right - which is why I wouldn't have QM1's on layover at Springfield itself (that wasn't my intent at all).... They'd layover along HHE (south end) anywhere between Bell & Springfield (akin to the Qm4 that has buses on layover anywhere along HHE b/w Parsons & 164th)...

3] Don't understand what you're asking here...

1a. I like this plan and agree that no service cuts are a good thing but can you help me understand how? The branched QM6 would definitely need more runs [neither NST or GO is going to take peak only service] and I think the QM1 might also need some if its going to do Main-188 solo. Meanwhile, giving up the GO+73rd riders, eating into more of the QM6 base and running express after 188 means the QM5 only has 10 standalone stops for ridership. To me that = QM5 runs becoming QM1/6s = HHE bet. Springfield-LN  getting less service.

1b.  I could be wrong but I've been under the impression that express ridership in Oakland Gardens North (via 73rd Av) is higher than express ridership in Oakland Gardens South/Hollis Hills (via Union)  [north has denser housing + the Q88 is local vs. south is all homes but has the Q46 LTD]. I agree that most riders probably aren't north of 73rd but I would think the bulk find it easier to get to 73rd over Union [that parkway is in the way]. In other words, if Midtown service were to be extended in OG, I thought the 73rd service would need to be supplemented before Union.  If you throw new stops on Springfield at 75th/77th into the equation, would people choose them over the more frequent service at Springfield/73 (QM1/5) or Springfield/Union (QM5/6G/6N)?

2. Gotcha, I never taken the QM4/44

3. Your QM8 runs east from Douglaston to GO before heading to the city. I was asking how much time it'd save over the current crawl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

1a. I like this plan and agree that no service cuts are a good thing but can you help me understand how? The branched QM6 would definitely need more runs [neither NST or GO is going to take peak only service] and I think the QM1 might also need some if its going to do Main-188 solo. Meanwhile, giving up the GO+73rd riders, eating into more of the QM6 base and running express after 188 means the QM5 only has 10 standalone stops for ridership. To me that = QM5 runs becoming QM1/6s = HHE bet. Springfield-LN  getting less service.

1b.  I could be wrong but I've been under the impression that express ridership in Oakland Gardens North (via 73rd Av) is higher than express ridership in Oakland Gardens South/Hollis Hills (via Union)  [north has denser housing + the Q88 is local vs. south is all homes but has the Q46 LTD]. I agree that most riders probably aren't north of 73rd but I would think the bulk find it easier to get to 73rd over Union [that parkway is in the way]. In other words, if Midtown service were to be extended in OG, I thought the 73rd service would need to be supplemented before Union.  If you throw new stops on Springfield at 75th/77th into the equation, would people choose them over the more frequent service at Springfield/73 (QM1/5) or Springfield/Union (QM5/6G/6N)?

2. Gotcha, I never taken the QM4/44

3. Your QM8 runs east from Douglaston to GO before heading to the city. I was asking how much time it'd save over the current crawl

1a. Qm1 @ 20 mins peak & Qm6 @ 15 mins peak would see increases (due to the extension & due to the branching, respectively)... Qm5 @ 12 mins peak would remain the same.... I'm not understanding why Qm5 runs would need to become Qm1's/Qm6's...

1b. There would be a greater amt. of service added to the Qm1, compared to that of the collective Qm6 branches....

3. Didn't know what you meant by "cut off the QM8".... But to opine on your inquiry, the majority of the time savings would come from QM8's running straight to Lwr. Manhattan from Union Tpke/188th.... The difference b/w the two routings b/w, say, Douglaston plz. - Union Tpke/188th (within Queens), I'd say the proposed routing would yield a net positive (meaning a savings) of around 10 mins. or so....

 

Edited by B35 via Church

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2018 at 11:21 PM, B35 via Church said:

1a. Qm1 @ 20 mins peak & Qm6 @ 15 mins peak would see increases (due to the extension & due to the branching, respectively)... Qm5 @ 12 mins peak would remain the same.... I'm not understanding why Qm5 runs would need to become Qm1's/Qm6's...

 

I think all 3 routes already run more frequently than that in the AM (if you were to avg the 6-8am runs)... in the PM, the QM5 SX runs would be serving half the stops it serves now. Might be better off having a QM1 or QM6 SX...

my comprehension of scheduling is minimal so maybe someone can break it down for me:

if a route (in general) is shortened and then covered by 2 other routes, I would think it would require less buses per hour (unless the stops it's keeping to itself are the high generators) because you're going to need more buses on the 2 other routes.

ex.  if you split the Q27 in half at QCC; made the Flushing portion a branch of the Q26 and extended some Q83s up to old Q75 terminal to give Oakland Gardens direct Jamaica service and left the Q27 as a standalone bet Murdock-120 (an obv. horrible idea), wouldn't the branched Q26 and extended Q83 require more service than the Q27?

 

Edited by Q43 Floral Park

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

I think all 3 routes already run more frequently than that in the AM (if you were to avg the 6-8am runs)... in the PM, the QM5 SX runs would be serving half the stops it serves now. Might be better off having a QM1 or QM6 SX...

Hold on....

During peak hours, what unilateral stops in Queens does the Qm5 serve that the Sx Qm5's doesn't? (serious question)..... I thought those Sx's only meant that they make the one pickup at the terminal in Midtown, then gun nonstop to Queens, where they make all other stops that the non Sx trips do....

22 hours ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

my comprehension of scheduling is minimal so maybe someone can break it down for me:

if a route (in general) is shortened and then covered by 2 other routes, I would think it would require less buses per hour (unless the stops it's keeping to itself are the high generators) because you're going to need more buses on the 2 other routes.

ex.  if you split the Q27 in half at QCC; made the Flushing portion a branch of the Q26 and extended some Q83s up to old Q75 terminal to give Oakland Gardens direct Jamaica service and left the Q27 as a standalone bet Murdock-120 (an obv. horrible idea), wouldn't the branched Q26 and extended Q83 require more service than the Q27?

You would have to determine how many Q83 trips either short turn at Springfield itself, run over to 227th, and run up to Oakland Gardens.... With the Q26, it wouldn't make a difference (as either branch would still provide service b/w Flushing & QCC with no short turns to be spoken of... lol).... It's not as cut & dry as, say, cut the Q27 in half & give the Q26 & the Q83 more service than the Q27....

If you want my opinion on that scenario/example, I would think that the Q26 would require more overall service than either the [Q83 to Oakland Gdns.] or the [Q27 b/w QCC & Cambria Hgts]..... Remember, you'd still have the Q27 running along Springfield, so you wouldn't really go too crazy running more Q83's north of Murdock than you would running Q27's.....

Your question is more one of how to effectively address demand, than it does not fully comprehending what goes into effectively scheduling some bus route{s}....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 4:50 PM, Q43 Floral Park said:

I think all 3 routes already run more frequently than that in the AM (if you were to avg the 6-8am runs)... in the PM, the QM5 SX runs would be serving half the stops it serves now. Might be better off having a QM1 or QM6 SX...

my comprehension of scheduling is minimal so maybe someone can break it down for me:

if a route (in general) is shortened and then covered by 2 other routes, I would think it would require less buses per hour (unless the stops it's keeping to itself are the high generators) because you're going to need more buses on the 2 other routes.

ex.  if you split the Q27 in half at QCC; made the Flushing portion a branch of the Q26 and extended some Q83s up to old Q75 terminal to give Oakland Gardens direct Jamaica service and left the Q27 as a standalone bet Murdock-120 (an obv. horrible idea), wouldn't the branched Q26 and extended Q83 require more service than the Q27?

 

Usually if a route is lengthened, you will have to add a extra bus, unless there is sufficient layover time to cut into at the end of the route.

Say Q27 currently takes 5 minutes between Murdock and CHeights, you take the round trip time + any layover time (assuming 5 min at each end) 20 minutes. Say you want to run the service every 10 minutes, you take the round trip time 20/10= 2 buses needed on the Q27 btw Murdock and CH. Now if you run it every 5 minutes 20/5= 4 buses.

Late nights it takes Q83 bus 23 minutes from QV-LIRR and it takes the Q83 the same amount of time to go from 227 St, so if you were to discontinue the 227 St branch no extra buses is needed to run full time to QV. The Q83 currently takes 75 minutes round trip between the two endpoints (assuming 5 min layover at each end and no interlining) and you run it every 5 min you will need 15 buses. Extending it to Q75 terminal adds a extra 20 minutes to the schedule round trip making it 95 minutes, therefore if you wish to continue running it every 5 minutes, you will need 19 buses. Using 15 will cause the headway to slip to 6.33 minutes (some driver will have a long break unless you interline it with something). If you wish to preserve both branch, headways will usually be increased on both branches unless you add buses. 

In order to figure out the buses required you will need to know how often you want to run the route and how long or longer a route will take plus its layover time and any short turns.

So in your example, assuming everything runs every 5 minutes and perfect traffic (midnight timetable) with 5 min layover time at each endpoint and no interlining and no short turning

Q83 (with 227 St branch eliminated) extension will require 19 (vs 15 now) buses.

Q27F(pulled it from NICE Bus) Branch will require 14 buses.

Q27 Murdock-120) will need 4 buses. Total extra= 22 

If we ran the Q27 right now every 5 min w/5 min layover. It would need 30 buses. So your plan would save the MTA 8 buses. Assuming you are not running any Q27 north of Murdock

For cost neutrality purposes, with 8 buses you could run Q27Q (QCC-120th) every 8.75 minutes (60 min R/T time and 5 min layover= 70 min/8 buses)

Edited by Mtatransit
  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/28/2018 at 4:30 PM, B35 via Church said:

Hold on....

During peak hours, what unilateral stops in Queens does the Qm5 serve that the Sx Qm5's doesn't? (serious question)..... I thought those Sx's only meant that they make the one pickup at the terminal in Midtown, then gun nonstop to Queens, where they make all other stops that the non Sx trips do....

Your question is more one of how to effectively address demand, than it does not fully comprehending what goes into effectively scheduling some bus route{s}....

They make the same stops now but I was saying if you change the QM5 route to make less stops and leave the SX with one pick up would it still be worth it (idk if the people using it are west or east of 188).

Thanks for the breakdown on the hypothetical service.

On side note: someone mentioned this in another thread but BP had an O7 on the QM21 this AM... While I get interlining, it seems kinda messed up to have people paying 6.50 to hit every bump on the LIE... Had to be glad it can't happen on my express route(s).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In eastern Queens, a lot of routes tend to end dead without any connection, minus the routes going to and from Green Acres Mall. One proposal I would make, that would effectively make all Q5 and Q85 service run to and from Green Acres, would be to add a route running from Jamaica Center than runs north-south. That leaves 2 options, the Q4 and Q84. However, as the Q4's ridership is too heavy, I would extend the Q84 instead through Laurelton and Rosedale and branch it with a Q84 and a Q86. First, the Q86:

To Rosedale, via 120 Avenue: Right on Francis Lewis Boulevard, snake around through Cambria Heights, Laurelton, and Rosedale to Sunrise Highway, then down 243 Street to 147 Avenue, turn along 147 Avenue to Brookville Boulevard, and end. This route would be signed:

Q86 Rosedale 147 AV via 120 AV via F LEWIS BLVD

Q86 Jamaica Parsons-Archer via F LEWIS BLVD via 120 AV

To Jamaica, via 243 Street, right on Memphis, left on 246 Street, left on Francis Lewis, snake through Rosedale, Laurelton, and Cambria Heights, left onto 120 Avenue, and on to Jamaica.

Now, the extended Q84:

Instead of ending at 130 Avenue and Laurelton Parkway, the Q84 would turn left onto 130 Avenue to cross the Laurelton, and then turn right onto Brookville Boulevard. Operate along Brookville Boulevard to Francis Lewis Boulevard, and join the Q86. The return trip would be via a similar route. 

Q84 Rosedale 147 AV via 120 AV via BROOKVILLE BLVD

Q84 Jamaica Parsons-Archer BROOKVILLE BLVD via 120 AV

The turnaround for both would be via 147 Avenue, 235 Street, 147 Road, and Brookville Boulevard.

To facilitate connections, the Q114 LTD stop would have a stop added at 147 Avenue and 235 Street.

I would propose to have each route run at 15 minute intervals on the trunk and 30 minutes on each branch on weekends, and 10 and 20 off-peak (with more frequent service during the rush).

The basic idea here is to not have orphaning of routes on the east end and to build a network instead of a hub and spoke. The Q84 and Q86 would each have different catchment areas in Laurelton, and more importantly, the Q5 and Q85 would have unified service and only one service route instead of branches.

Edited by aemoreira81

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:48 PM, aemoreira81 said:

In eastern Queens, a lot of routes tend to end dead without any connection, minus the routes going to and from Green Acres Mall. One proposal I would make, that would effectively make all Q5 and Q85 service run to and from Green Acres, would be to add a route running from Jamaica Center than runs north-south. That leaves 2 options, the Q4 and Q84. However, as the Q4's ridership is too heavy, I would extend the Q84 instead through Laurelton and Rosedale and branch it with a Q84 and a Q86. First, the Q86:

To Rosedale, via 120 Avenue: Right on Francis Lewis Boulevard, snake around through Cambria Heights, Laurelton, and Rosedale to Sunrise Highway, then down 243 Street to 147 Avenue, turn along 147 Avenue to Brookville Boulevard, and end. This route would be signed:

Q86 Rosedale 147 AV via 120 AV via F LEWIS BLVD

Q86 Jamaica Parsons-Archer via F LEWIS BLVD via 120 AV

To Jamaica, via 243 Street, right on Memphis, left on 246 Street, left on Francis Lewis, snake through Rosedale, Laurelton, and Cambria Heights, left onto 120 Avenue, and on to Jamaica.

Now, the extended Q84:

Instead of ending at 130 Avenue and Laurelton Parkway, the Q84 would turn left onto 130 Avenue to cross the Laurelton, and then turn right onto Brookville Boulevard. Operate along Brookville Boulevard to Francis Lewis Boulevard, and join the Q86. The return trip would be via a similar route. 

Q84 Rosedale 147 AV via 120 AV via BROOKVILLE BLVD

Q84 Jamaica Parsons-Archer BROOKVILLE BLVD via 120 AV

The turnaround for both would be via 147 Avenue, 235 Street, 147 Road, and Brookville Boulevard.

To facilitate connections, the Q114 LTD stop would have a stop added at 147 Avenue and 235 Street.

I would propose to have each route run at 15 minute intervals on the trunk and 30 minutes on each branch on weekends, and 10 and 20 off-peak (with more frequent service during the rush).

The basic idea here is to not have orphaning of routes on the east end and to build a network instead of a hub and spoke. The Q84 and Q86 would each have different catchment areas in Laurelton, and more importantly, the Q5 and Q85 would have unified service and only one service route instead of branches.

There's hardly a benefit in trying to create more of a grid in SE Queens, when the subway coverage out there is non-existent..... The "orphaning" of routes isn't a problem at all, it's the proximity to a subway line for the lot of those folks that's the problem.......

Being more specific to your actual plan, having all Q5's & Q85's run to Green Acres is overkill..... You're actually making matters worse for more riders by having more buses run there....

p.s. - Hub & Spoke is a network!

p.p.s - It defeats the purpose to want to discontinue branching on two routes to create a new branch of a route that doesn't need one to begin with!

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been developing a plan for the Queens express bus network. The goal is to increase coverage of the system, and to provide greater service overall than the current network, which is greatly needed (sorely needed in some cases). I would like to hear input on this, especially those who frequently ride the Queens express buses. There are a couple of main components to this plan, with some relabeling, but here are the plans as follows:

 

Longer service hours:

Several routes would have increases in service hours in order to make an enticing option compared to the bus or subway. Some of these service increases are offset by reductions in overall runtime (per trip) which are reallocated.

 

New service areas:

Two communities will receive express bus service. One neighborhood is getting extended express bus coverage in order to make the express bus a more convenient option. Eleven communities will receive a new express bus option which serves other areas of Manhattan outside of Midtown and Downtown. Downtown service from NE Queens has been boosted, serving more areas.

 

Fewer stops:

Certain bus stops which are too close to each other have been eliminated. Certain other express buses will now have a longer express section.

 

More frequent service:

A number of routes will now operate with more frequent service, in order to accommodate expected ridership increases. Some cost increases are offset by runtime decreases.

 

This link displays the service hours and frequencies of all the routes listed above:

List of Queens Express Bus Routes

 

Here are the maps, displaying all the routes and their stops. You can view the routes without the stops by unchecking the stops layer:

Weekday Peak Service

Weekday Off-Peak Service

Saturday Service

Sunday Service

 

Additionally, I have also mapped the pick-ups and drop-offs. I am still thinking on changing the stop selection of some of those routes still, so that may still be up for debate. Operating the buses this way eliminates the looping that the buses have to do to get to 57 Street, and would allow for more service to be added without cost. That is why I was able to expand some of the off-peak service. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if every SI bus route wasn't routed onto 5th Avenue, but since it was, I've been trying to find ways to reduce the amount of stops these buses make on 5th Avenue (most of the QMs would only make one stop on 5th Avenue, at 41 Street, where there is more space to add stops). 

Weekday Peak Service

Weekday Off-Peak Service

Saturday Service

Sunday Service

 

This plan however, also needs the following:

PM LIE Bus Lane (from Queens Midtown Tunnel to Francis Lewis Boulevard)

A lot of the routes will now be using the LIE instead of Queens Boulevard. The problem is, the LIE is very delay prone during the PM rush. There's a chokepoint around the Maspeth Area, and then around the Woodhaven Boulevard area into Corona. A third segment exists east of Main Street. Multiple buses are also using the LIE for long distances. The QM1, QM2, QM3, QM4X, QM6X, QM9, QM14, QM31, QM37 and QM68 (Depending on Traffic Conditions) are operating on the LIE non-stop up to Flushing-Meadows Park or to points further east.

Between the Midtown Tunnel and Flushing Meadows Park, there would be 29 BPH on that proposed bus lane during the height of the rush (not counting the QM68). Between the park and Fresh Meadows, 12 BPH would be using the bus lane (again, without counting the QM68). Routes like the QM10, QM30, and QM40 wouldn't need to use the bus lane. Routes that get off at Queens Boulevard could also use the bus lane to bypass the congestion in the Maspeth area. This of course, does not count the Hampton Jitney buses that would also use this lane. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still not sure what to do with the Woodhaven Boulevard routes completely yet, because it also depends on something else I'm looking into my version of the Brooklyn Express Bus Restructuring (which is also in the works). The BM5 and QM15 roles are still up in the air, and may not end up the way they are currently. The QM16 and QM17 for the most part would stay the way I proposed them to be, though.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2018 at 1:01 PM, B35 via Church said:

There's hardly a benefit in trying to create more of a grid in SE Queens, when the subway coverage out there is non-existent..... The "orphaning" of routes isn't a problem at all, it's the proximity to a subway line for the lot of those folks that's the problem.......

Being more specific to your actual plan, having all Q5's & Q85's run to Green Acres is overkill..... You're actually making matters worse for more riders by having more buses run there....

p.s. - Hub & Spoke is a network!

p.p.s - It defeats the purpose to want to discontinue branching on two routes to create a new branch of a route that doesn't need one to begin with!

For some weird reason, I had the Q86 going to Jamaica, but not the way Mr Moreira had it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/11/2018 at 2:39 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I have been developing a plan for the Queens express bus network. The goal is to increase coverage of the system, and to provide greater service overall than the current network, which is greatly needed (sorely needed in some cases). I would like to hear input on this, especially those who frequently ride the Queens express buses. There are a couple of main components to this plan, with some relabeling, but here are the plans as follows:

 

Longer service hours:

Several routes would have increases in service hours in order to make an enticing option compared to the bus or subway. Some of these service increases are offset by reductions in overall runtime (per trip) which are reallocated.

 

New service areas:

Two communities will receive express bus service. One neighborhood is getting extended express bus coverage in order to make the express bus a more convenient option. Eleven communities will receive a new express bus option which serves other areas of Manhattan outside of Midtown and Downtown. Downtown service from NE Queens has been boosted, serving more areas.

 

Fewer stops:

Certain bus stops which are too close to each other have been eliminated. Certain other express buses will now have a longer express section.

 

More frequent service:

A number of routes will now operate with more frequent service, in order to accommodate expected ridership increases. Some cost increases are offset by runtime decreases.

 

This link displays the service hours and frequencies of all the routes listed above:

List of Queens Express Bus Routes

 

Here are the maps, displaying all the routes and their stops. You can view the routes without the stops by unchecking the stops layer:

Weekday Peak Service

Weekday Off-Peak Service

Saturday Service

Sunday Service

 

Additionally, I have also mapped the pick-ups and drop-offs. I am still thinking on changing the stop selection of some of those routes still, so that may still be up for debate. Operating the buses this way eliminates the looping that the buses have to do to get to 57 Street, and would allow for more service to be added without cost. That is why I was able to expand some of the off-peak service. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if every SI bus route wasn't routed onto 5th Avenue, but since it was, I've been trying to find ways to reduce the amount of stops these buses make on 5th Avenue (most of the QMs would only make one stop on 5th Avenue, at 41 Street, where there is more space to add stops). 

Weekday Peak Service

Weekday Off-Peak Service

Saturday Service

Sunday Service

 

This plan however, also needs the following:

PM LIE Bus Lane (from Queens Midtown Tunnel to Francis Lewis Boulevard)

A lot of the routes will now be using the LIE instead of Queens Boulevard. The problem is, the LIE is very delay prone during the PM rush. There's a chokepoint around the Maspeth Area, and then around the Woodhaven Boulevard area into Corona. A third segment exists east of Main Street. Multiple buses are also using the LIE for long distances. The QM1, QM2, QM3, QM4X, QM6X, QM9, QM14, QM31, QM37 and QM68 (Depending on Traffic Conditions) are operating on the LIE non-stop up to Flushing-Meadows Park or to points further east.

Between the Midtown Tunnel and Flushing Meadows Park, there would be 29 BPH on that proposed bus lane during the height of the rush (not counting the QM68). Between the park and Fresh Meadows, 12 BPH would be using the bus lane (again, without counting the QM68). Routes like the QM10, QM30, and QM40 wouldn't need to use the bus lane. Routes that get off at Queens Boulevard could also use the bus lane to bypass the congestion in the Maspeth area. This of course, does not count the Hampton Jitney buses that would also use this lane. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still not sure what to do with the Woodhaven Boulevard routes completely yet, because it also depends on something else I'm looking into my version of the Brooklyn Express Bus Restructuring (which is also in the works). The BM5 and QM15 roles are still up in the air, and may not end up the way they are currently. The QM16 and QM17 for the most part would stay the way I proposed them to be, though.

These are my comments about your peak services....

Qm1 - For the sake of increasing coverage, I see this losing ridership (compared to the current Qm20)... I also think you're attempting to serve the wrong portion of 149th (south of Willets Point blvd. compared to north of it).....

Qm2/32 - I don't mind the routing, but at the same time, for the sake of increasing coverage, this would make the (current/real) Qm2 slower...

Qm3 - While I believe the Qm3 should provide coverage elsewhere somewhere mid-route, I think it should be in some nearby pocket north of Northern, not south of it... Running express buses in that pocket of Queens, in terms of runtime, is suicide... What you're proposing with that part of your Qm3, at best, should be a local route ending with the Q88 or something.... Come to think of it, an East Flushing - Elmhurst route has a good ring to it..... Would ease the stress off the Q58.

Qm4C/S/X, Qm14, Qm31, Qm37 - Not in favor of this restructure at all.... For the sake of increasing coverage, you're going to have the current East-of-Fresh Meadows riders put up with Horace Harding instead of Union Tpke... Terrible tradeoff... Union Tpke moves at a better rate... I'd rather put up [QB to Union Tpke] over the [LIE to HHE] any day of the week.... "Straighter" doesn't always mean better....

...and also, why does a Qm37 (assuming this is a 3rd av variant) run along HHE, but the Qm7 runs on Jewel???

Qm5/7/35 - In theory, I don't have much of a problem with an extended (real) Qm4 to Oakland Gardens.... The question I have though is, what streets would inbound service travel along in the Utopia area? Jewel av is not a continuous 2 way street.....

Qm6/36 - While I abhor the (real) QM5/8 ending at Union Tpke/260th, I don't think express service in general should divert on LNP & via 260th to go on to serve the rest of Union Tpke due east, either.... LNP, IMO, should be serviced by one route & not piece-mealed (although getting rid of that dead mileage b/w LIJ & NST does make sense).....

Qm8 - I don't think it's worth it to give NST Downtown service.... I'd run this up to LNP/HHE & call it a day.

Qm9 - Agree with this.... NE Queens in general could use a direct downtown service & I believe you have it serving the right areas from start to finish....

Qm10/40 - Agree with this in general... The (real) Qm10 routing needs to go like yesterday & it does make sense to separate the Lefrak portion of the route & combine it with some new market (Maspeth in this case).... I would even have it serving more of Maspeth, inbound running via service rd > 69th st > Maurice > 65th pl > back to the service rd, en route to Manhattan....

Qm11 - Anything that does away with that loop routing of the real Qm11 is fine with me.... The outbound (real) route tends to die after that first stop on the north side of QB (72nd dr)... I think service past Ascan on down to Lefferts would catch on quick....

Qm12 - There's parts of this I agree with & parts I disagree with..... Overall I get the logic of this, but at the same time, something should still serve the portion of Rego Park along Yellowstone, north of QB.... Revoking that service for expanded coverage along Metropolitan to Lefferts isn't worth leaving Yellowstone, north of QB with nothing....

Qm15/16/17 - Nah, I don't agree with having the Qm16/17 divert to serve Lindenwood.... At best, there should be some sort of Qm15 super express or something that would run down to Lindenwood - with the first outbound/last inbound stop along Woodhaven at Rockaway Blvd..... You can still have the Qm15 that'd make regular stops along Woodhaven (south of Rockaway blvd) ending at Pitkin.

Qm18 - I would combine your Qm12 idea, with an old Qm18 I had.... outbound, it would do your Qm12 to Park Lane south, then do the current Q37 routing down to Rockaway blvd, then run along Rockaway to Lefferts, to continue the current Qm18 routing en route to S. Ozone Park.... The Qm18 tends to be an afterthought, as the Q10 is too great.... The Q37 runs like hot garbage & an express route to Manhattan just may be attractive to folks on that side of Richmond Hill.....

Qm20/29 - I can agree to this, mainly for coverage reasons....

Qm21 - LOL!!  While Merrick moves better, there is a shit ton of dead mileage along Merrick on the x63... With this, you're basically saying that the Qm21 & the x63 should be streamlined.... I don't have too much of a problem with this....

Qm22/52 - ouch.... I see such a service carrying a lot of air... I wouldn't experiment with a route like that at all...

Qm24/34 - I want to agree with this, but at the same time, I'm saying to myself, this thing is much too narrow....

Qm30 - Don't see this performing all too well, unfortunately.... Midtown variant (Qm10/40) is likely all that's needed.

Qm54/Qm58 - Although I wouldn't have these buses ending smack in the middle of SoHo like that, that is a market I would try testing out; Queens express service south of 34th st & what not.....

Qm64 - I would leave the current x64 routing alone... x64 b/w the Van Wyck & Brewer gets more usage than you may think... I also wouldn't run an express bus up 168th w/ all those locals trying to get to Jamaica Center or 165th bus terminal....

--------------------------

I'll have to comment on the off peak & weekend services some other time.

Edited by B35 via Church
added that very last sentence....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:10 PM, Q43 Floral Park said:

They make the same stops now but I was saying if you change the QM5 route to make less stops and leave the SX with one pick up would it still be worth it (idk if the people using it are west or east of 188).

Thanks for the breakdown on the hypothetical service.

------------------

On side note: someone mentioned this in another thread but BP had an O7 on the QM21 this AM... While I get interlining, it seems kinda messed up to have people paying 6.50 to hit every bump on the LIE... Had to be glad it can't happen on my express route(s).

Don't know why I didn't notice this reply earlier....

- So what you're asking more or less is, of the people that utilize the (real) Sx Qm5 at the first stop (6th/36th), how many of those people would be left out if my rendition of a Qm5 were to come to fruition.... I'm not too sure of how many people specifically disembark the (real) Sx Qm5 west of 188th....

- As for the hypothetical Q27 breakup bit, sure, no problem.

- Local bus fleet on an express? They're starting up that crap again huh..... Don't miss that nonsense at all when it was persistent on the Spring Creek routes some odd years ago; as you say, you used to feel every goddamn bump on the FDR & the Gowanus.... You know this agency is done for when they start interlining local routes with express routes... Lol....

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:32 PM, Q43LTD said:

For some weird reason, I had the Q86 going to Jamaica, but not the way Mr Moreira had it. 

What did your "Q86" entail?

14 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Qm15/16/17 - Nah, I don't agree with having the Qm16/17 divert to serve Lindenwood.... At best, there should be some sort of Qm15 super express or something that would run down to Lindenwood - with the first outbound/last inbound stop along Woodhaven at Rockaway Blvd..... You can still have the Qm15 that'd make regular stops along Woodhaven (south of Rockaway blvd) ending at Pitkin.

....should read north of Rockaway Blvd.

Edited by B35 via Church

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/11/2018 at 2:39 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I have been developing a plan for the Queens express bus network. The goal is to increase coverage of the system, and to provide greater service overall than the current network, which is greatly needed (sorely needed in some cases). I would like to hear input on this, especially those who frequently ride the Queens express buses. There are a couple of main components to this plan, with some relabeling, but here are the plans as follows:

 

Longer service hours:

Several routes would have increases in service hours in order to make an enticing option compared to the bus or subway. Some of these service increases are offset by reductions in overall runtime (per trip) which are reallocated.

 

New service areas:

Two communities will receive express bus service. One neighborhood is getting extended express bus coverage in order to make the express bus a more convenient option. Eleven communities will receive a new express bus option which serves other areas of Manhattan outside of Midtown and Downtown. Downtown service from NE Queens has been boosted, serving more areas.

 

Fewer stops:

Certain bus stops which are too close to each other have been eliminated. Certain other express buses will now have a longer express section.

 

More frequent service:

A number of routes will now operate with more frequent service, in order to accommodate expected ridership increases. Some cost increases are offset by runtime decreases.

 

This link displays the service hours and frequencies of all the routes listed above:

List of Queens Express Bus Routes

 

Here are the maps, displaying all the routes and their stops. You can view the routes without the stops by unchecking the stops layer:

Weekday Peak Service

Weekday Off-Peak Service

Saturday Service

Sunday Service

 

Additionally, I have also mapped the pick-ups and drop-offs. I am still thinking on changing the stop selection of some of those routes still, so that may still be up for debate. Operating the buses this way eliminates the looping that the buses have to do to get to 57 Street, and would allow for more service to be added without cost. That is why I was able to expand some of the off-peak service. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if every SI bus route wasn't routed onto 5th Avenue, but since it was, I've been trying to find ways to reduce the amount of stops these buses make on 5th Avenue (most of the QMs would only make one stop on 5th Avenue, at 41 Street, where there is more space to add stops). 

Weekday Peak Service

Weekday Off-Peak Service

Saturday Service

Sunday Service

 

This plan however, also needs the following:

PM LIE Bus Lane (from Queens Midtown Tunnel to Francis Lewis Boulevard)

A lot of the routes will now be using the LIE instead of Queens Boulevard. The problem is, the LIE is very delay prone during the PM rush. There's a chokepoint around the Maspeth Area, and then around the Woodhaven Boulevard area into Corona. A third segment exists east of Main Street. Multiple buses are also using the LIE for long distances. The QM1, QM2, QM3, QM4X, QM6X, QM9, QM14, QM31, QM37 and QM68 (Depending on Traffic Conditions) are operating on the LIE non-stop up to Flushing-Meadows Park or to points further east.

Between the Midtown Tunnel and Flushing Meadows Park, there would be 29 BPH on that proposed bus lane during the height of the rush (not counting the QM68). Between the park and Fresh Meadows, 12 BPH would be using the bus lane (again, without counting the QM68). Routes like the QM10, QM30, and QM40 wouldn't need to use the bus lane. Routes that get off at Queens Boulevard could also use the bus lane to bypass the congestion in the Maspeth area. This of course, does not count the Hampton Jitney buses that would also use this lane. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm still not sure what to do with the Woodhaven Boulevard routes completely yet, because it also depends on something else I'm looking into my version of the Brooklyn Express Bus Restructuring (which is also in the works). The BM5 and QM15 roles are still up in the air, and may not end up the way they are currently. The QM16 and QM17 for the most part would stay the way I proposed them to be, though.

The QM16 and QM17 should do what they do now and I agree with B35... I'd have some Super Express QM15 trips.  The people in Far Rockaway would raise hell if the (MTA) tried to make those two lines make even more stops than they already do along Woodhaven Blvd.  The reason those buses stop picking where they do is precisely because residents down there petitioned for fewer stops along Woodhaven Blvd, arguing (and rightfully so) that no other express buses had such a set up and that the (MTA) was pushing them around because they felt that they could get away with it.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

 

What did your "Q86" entail?

 

Well, this was back when I didn't know any better. I had it following the Q4 to Francis Lewis (the Q86 started at Jamaica Center) , then all the way down to it's "current" terminal near the X63. I wanted it to be more than a pathetic LIRR shuttle during the rush. This was before the Q27 extention to 120.  It would have ran all times except late nights. The Q5, 85 and 111 would be the alternatives

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/12/2018 at 7:31 PM, B35 via Church said:

These are my comments about your peak services....

Qm1 - For the sake of increasing coverage, I see this losing ridership (compared to the current Qm20)... I also think you're attempting to serve the wrong portion of 149th (south of Willets Point blvd. compared to north of it).....

Qm2/32 - I don't mind the routing, but at the same time, for the sake of increasing coverage, this would make the (current/real) Qm2 slower...

Qm3 - While I believe the Qm3 should provide coverage elsewhere somewhere mid-route, I think it should be in some nearby pocket north of Northern, not south of it... Running express buses in that pocket of Queens, in terms of runtime, is suicide... What you're proposing with that part of your Qm3, at best, should be a local route ending with the Q88 or something.... Come to think of it, an East Flushing - Elmhurst route has a good ring to it..... Would ease the stress off the Q58.

Qm4C/S/X, Qm14, Qm31, Qm37 - Not in favor of this restructure at all.... For the sake of increasing coverage, you're going to have the current East-of-Fresh Meadows riders put up with Horace Harding instead of Union Tpke... Terrible tradeoff... Union Tpke moves at a better rate... I'd rather put up [QB to Union Tpke] over the [LIE to HHE] any day of the week.... "Straighter" doesn't always mean better....

...and also, why does a Qm37 (assuming this is a 3rd av variant) run along HHE, but the Qm7 runs on Jewel???

Qm5/7/35 - In theory, I don't have much of a problem with an extended (real) Qm4 to Oakland Gardens.... The question I have though is, what streets would inbound service travel along in the Utopia area? Jewel av is not a continuous 2 way street.....

Qm6/36 - While I abhor the (real) QM5/8 ending at Union Tpke/260th, I don't think express service in general should divert on LNP & via 260th to go on to serve the rest of Union Tpke due east, either.... LNP, IMO, should be serviced by one route & not piece-mealed (although getting rid of that dead mileage b/w LIJ & NST does make sense).....

Qm8 - I don't think it's worth it to give NST Downtown service.... I'd run this up to LNP/HHE & call it a day.

Qm9 - Agree with this.... NE Queens in general could use a direct downtown service & I believe you have it serving the right areas from start to finish....

Qm10/40 - Agree with this in general... The (real) Qm10 routing needs to go like yesterday & it does make sense to separate the Lefrak portion of the route & combine it with some new market (Maspeth in this case).... I would even have it serving more of Maspeth, inbound running via service rd > 69th st > Maurice > 65th pl > back to the service rd, en route to Manhattan....

Qm11 - Anything that does away with that loop routing of the real Qm11 is fine with me.... The outbound (real) route tends to die after that first stop on the north side of QB (72nd dr)... I think service past Ascan on down to Lefferts would catch on quick....

Qm12 - There's parts of this I agree with & parts I disagree with..... Overall I get the logic of this, but at the same time, something should still serve the portion of Rego Park along Yellowstone, north of QB.... Revoking that service for expanded coverage along Metropolitan to Lefferts isn't worth leaving Yellowstone, north of QB with nothing....

Qm15/16/17 - Nah, I don't agree with having the Qm16/17 divert to serve Lindenwood.... At best, there should be some sort of Qm15 super express or something that would run down to Lindenwood - with the first outbound/last inbound stop along Woodhaven at Rockaway Blvd..... You can still have the Qm15 that'd make regular stops along Woodhaven (south of Rockaway blvd) ending at Pitkin.

Qm18 - I would combine your Qm12 idea, with an old Qm18 I had.... outbound, it would do your Qm12 to Park Lane south, then do the current Q37 routing down to Rockaway blvd, then run along Rockaway to Lefferts, to continue the current Qm18 routing en route to S. Ozone Park.... The Qm18 tends to be an afterthought, as the Q10 is too great.... The Q37 runs like hot garbage & an express route to Manhattan just may be attractive to folks on that side of Richmond Hill.....

Qm20/29 - I can agree to this, mainly for coverage reasons....

Qm21 - LOL!!  While Merrick moves better, there is a shit ton of dead mileage along Merrick on the x63... With this, you're basically saying that the Qm21 & the x63 should be streamlined.... I don't have too much of a problem with this....

Qm22/52 - ouch.... I see such a service carrying a lot of air... I wouldn't experiment with a route like that at all...

Qm24/34 - I want to agree with this, but at the same time, I'm saying to myself, this thing is much too narrow....

Qm30 - Don't see this performing all too well, unfortunately.... Midtown variant (Qm10/40) is likely all that's needed.

Qm54/Qm58 - Although I wouldn't have these buses ending smack in the middle of SoHo like that, that is a market I would try testing out; Queens express service south of 34th st & what not.....

Qm64 - I would leave the current x64 routing alone... x64 b/w the Van Wyck & Brewer gets more usage than you may think... I also wouldn't run an express bus up 168th w/ all those locals trying to get to Jamaica Center or 165th bus terminal....

--------------------------

I'll have to comment on the off peak & weekend services some other time.

QM1: It'll lose riders, yes (since it doesn't serve Mitchell Gardens), but the total net amount of riders loss would be less, because the current QM3 riders would be serve (of those at the 149th and Parsons stops). I was thinking about having a portion on 20 Avenue, but it's virtually impossible due to the side streets and the already tight turns.

 

QM2: It'll have to deal with Mitchell Gardens riders too, however I added some additional service in the peak in order to accommodate those riders. Hopefully, that'll spread out the exisitng ridership a little more. 

 

QM3: My thinking was that it was better to serve the southern portion because not only does the LIRR not run there (like it already does in the north), but also, the buses to the (7) already take a long time. Additionally, some of the areas near Kissena Boulevard do not have any sort of bus, so perhaps you might get some riders from there. But I feel like an express bus should run in that general area (and it could work). 

 

QM4X, QM37: The reason the QM7 and the QM37 take different routes is because they are not part of the same variant. The QM37 is a QM4X variant, which in turn is a QM4 variant. The QM7 is a QM5 variant. Additionally, both the QM4X and QM37 make no stops west of Francis Lewis Boulevard in Queens. They run straight to Manhattan. In the PM, the proposed bus lane I have that goes with this plan would reduce potential delays.

 

To make this easier to understand, I'll break it down (I've made an edit on the map to clarify the patterns):

QM4C: Runs in the Reverse peak Only, the full route, making all stops. 

QM4S: Runs in the peak direction, via HHE, from 188 Street to points west.

QM4X: Super Express of QM4C; Runs in the peak direction, making no stops west of Francis Lewis Boulevard.

QM14: Downtown QM4C variant, makes all stops.

QM37: East Midtown Super Express, no stops west of Francis Lewis Boulevard.

 

QM5/7/35 : It'll operate either along 69th Avenue or 73 Avenue westbound. If it's the 73 Avenue option, that inbound stop at Utopia will have to be moved.

 

QM6/36 : So would this entail branching the route on that end, or how else? The reason I did that was because despite the seemingly winding route, it would take less time than the QM5 (which basically deviates to serve almost everything in that general area). Not to say that's a bad thing, but nobody is really putting up with the QM5

 

QM8, QM9, QM10, QM11, QM40 : Alright, cool. 

 

QM12/QM18 : I have wanted to maintain the service, but I didn't know exactly how to do that. Having that as its own route would be very short. I'm thinking of something that would entail one of the things you mentioned about having QM12 buses run down to South Ozone Park, but in a slightly different pattern. 

 

QM15/QM16/QM17 : Since everyone's basically in agreeance with your comments, I feel like I now know exactly what to do with the express buses in that entire general area. It'll still be different to today's pattern, but slightly more close to the current one.

 

QM20/QM29 : One thing I want to point out, is that besides covering parts of Glendale not covered by any express bus, in addition with the parts of the current QM24, they would also cover the BM5 and QM15 ar points north of (and including) Metropolitan Avenue. During the times these buses run, the QM15 runs non-stop to 81 Road from Manhattan. 

QM22/QM52 : I was attempting to basically do a combo of the former QM22, while serving the portions where the route had the most ridership in. I feel like in time, if gentrification moves out further north, you might see some use for the QM52 in particular. 

QM24/QM34 : I was originally gonna start it at Metropolitan instead of at the (M) train, but I did it because I wanted to not have weird patterns for the express service.

Either way, I can assure you that service with the Eliot Avenue portion will do fine. There's current an AM standee issue because the MTA cut QM24 and QM34 service in January in order to add double the QM25 service (of course, to be cost-neutral). During some periods, we lost half our Midtown service. In the PM, almost all the ridership come from north of Metropolitan Avenue. Getting to Glendale takes way too long in the PM, which is also another reason for the QM20/QM29. 

 

QM30, QM54, QM58, QM64 : Noted.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

QM1: It'll lose riders, yes (since it doesn't serve Mitchell Gardens), but the total net amount of riders loss would be less, because the current QM3 riders would be serve (of those at the 149th and Parsons stops). I was thinking about having a portion on 20 Avenue, but it's virtually impossible due to the side streets and the already tight turns.

QM2: It'll have to deal with Mitchell Gardens riders too, however I added some additional service in the peak in order to accommodate those riders. Hopefully, that'll spread out the exisitng ridership a little more.

QM3: My thinking was that it was better to serve the southern portion because not only does the LIRR not run there (like it already does in the north), but also, the buses to the (7) already take a long time. Additionally, some of the areas near Kissena Boulevard do not have any sort of bus, so perhaps you might get some riders from there. But I feel like an express bus should run in that general area (and it could work).

QM4X, QM37: The reason the QM7 and the QM37 take different routes is because they are not part of the same variant. The QM37 is a QM4X variant, which in turn is a QM4 variant. The QM7 is a QM5 variant. Additionally, both the QM4X and QM37 make no stops west of Francis Lewis Boulevard in Queens. They run straight to Manhattan. In the PM, the proposed bus lane I have that goes with this plan would reduce potential delays.

To make this easier to understand, I'll break it down (I've made an edit on the map to clarify the patterns):

QM4C: Runs in the Reverse peak Only, the full route, making all stops. 

QM4S: Runs in the peak direction, via HHE, from 188 Street to points west.

QM4X: Super Express of QM4C; Runs in the peak direction, making no stops west of Francis Lewis Boulevard.

QM14: Downtown QM4C variant, makes all stops.

QM37: East Midtown Super Express, no stops west of Francis Lewis Boulevard.

QM5/7/35 : It'll operate either along 69th Avenue or 73 Avenue westbound. If it's the 73 Avenue option, that inbound stop at Utopia will have to be moved.

QM6/36 : So would this entail branching the route on that end, or how else? The reason I did that was because despite the seemingly winding route, it would take less time than the QM5 (which basically deviates to serve almost everything in that general area). Not to say that's a bad thing, but nobody is really putting up with the QM5

QM12/QM18 : I have wanted to maintain the service, but I didn't know exactly how to do that. Having that as its own route would be very short. I'm thinking of something that would entail one of the things you mentioned about having QM12 buses run down to South Ozone Park, but in a slightly different pattern.

QM15/QM16/QM17 : Since everyone's basically in agreeance with your comments, I feel like I now know exactly what to do with the express buses in that entire general area. It'll still be different to today's pattern, but slightly more close to the current one.

QM20/QM29 : One thing I want to point out, is that besides covering parts of Glendale not covered by any express bus, in addition with the parts of the current QM24, they would also cover the BM5 and QM15 ar points north of (and including) Metropolitan Avenue. During the times these buses run, the QM15 runs non-stop to 81 Road from Manhattan. 

QM22/QM52 : I was attempting to basically do a combo of the former QM22, while serving the portions where the route had the most ridership in. I feel like in time, if gentrification moves out further north, you might see some use for the QM52 in particular. 

QM24/QM34 : I was originally gonna start it at Metropolitan instead of at the (M) train, but I did it because I wanted to not have weird patterns for the express service.

Either way, I can assure you that service with the Eliot Avenue portion will do fine. There's current an AM standee issue because the MTA cut QM24 and QM34 service in January in order to add double the QM25 service (of course, to be cost-neutral). During some periods, we lost half our Midtown service. In the PM, almost all the ridership come from north of Metropolitan Avenue. Getting to Glendale takes way too long in the PM, which is also another reason for the QM20/QM29.

Qm1/3: In other words, the losses that'd likely happen from this route/alteration of yours, compared to the (real) Qm20, won't be too significant, because you're having this route take away from the (real) Qm3..... Routing-wise, I don't see what's wrong with the (real) Qm20 & and not trying to be funny, but what you're doing to the Qm3 is a slap in the face for a lot of current riders on that route... See, the western portion of that route is the most patronized by far & having it pan southward IMO would decimate that route.... You're taking service away from the most patronized segment of the route (save for the 149th & Parsons stops, which you retain with your Qm1) & (the way I see it) it's as if you're trying to send the message that, hey, for all you guys that's proximate to LIRR Broadway, here, take the LIRR.... If I took a dollar from you & gave you back a quarter, you'd want to kick my ass - That's how I'm seeing your Qm3 - In terms of comparability, I don't see your proposed route coming close to breaking even with the current Qm3 usage - which isn't anything to write home about to begin with (3 stinking trips in each direction doesn't help matters either).....

That routing south of Northern would also be a deterrent for the more easterly riders of the Qm3.... Although not exact, but that routing down there in general reminds me of the old x51 (putting buses on Sanford was plain old stupid), but having expresses run any part of Kissena, north of HHE, again, is suicide.....

If you really think it's worth serving that particular market with an express bus, it should be with a separate route terminating elsewhere, not taking away from what little patronage the Qm3 has.... JMO.

Qm2: Yup, hence why I say it'd make it slower (albeit more useful)..... The (real) Qm2 running along the service rd (Whitestone) north of Linden pl. though is a bit of a waste...

Qm4x, etc.: Surely you didn't expect those of us from the outside looking in, to know that.... You change the colors on your map now, but originally you had everything representing that corridor in green; confusing.... Nonetheless, thanks for the explanation; although I'm not at all wild about having HHE as a major corridor, the breakdowns of what each route does is clearer now.....

Qm5/7/20/29/35: Alright, gotcha....

Qm6: Yeah - which is exactly what I did w/ my Union Tpke (routes) restructure.... One branch running the current Qm6 route & the other Qm6 branch running up LNP from Union Tpke to HHE.....

Qm12: Going off the cuff here.... Using outbound service as a talking point, how about a route doing the real Qm12 routing to Yellowstone/QB, then doing the real Qm18 route to Met/Lefferts (or terminating elsewhere)? Basically acting as a supplement to the Qm18.....

Qm15/16/17: I get what you want to do/rectify with the Qm15 - However, there's no need to include the Qm16 & 17 in any of it.... But FWIW, let's see what you got.

Qm22/52: I figured that much (about your aim/attempt).... I'm not necessarily saying that you're wrong or right; I personally wouldn't take the chance in running a service like that....

Qm24/34: I'll take your word for it.... Good to know; I haven't utilized those Glendale expresses in a LONG time now.... lol....

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, what are the potential possiblities of a Transit Hub at Woodhaven/Queens Blvds?, I'm trying to come up with a proposal that integregate's the area around it and to give better transit service for the area. All I have in mind Right now is connecting this transit hub with the QCM to create some type of mega building of some sort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Hey, what are the potential possiblities of a Transit Hub at Woodhaven/Queens Blvds?, I'm trying to come up with a proposal that integregate's the area around it and to give better transit service for the area. All I have in mind Right now is connecting this transit hub with the QCM to create some type of mega building of some sort.

Why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.