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Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas


Q43LTD

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6 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Cause why not?

Why not? is not a reason to engage in a project that will cost millions of dollars. There are much better uses for it. If a private developer were to fund ALL of it, sure, let them. The only routes that terminate there are the Q52, Q59 and Q88. All other routes pass through. It wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

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On 8/13/2018 at 9:54 AM, B35 via Church said:

Don't know why I didn't notice this reply earlier....

- So what you're asking more or less is, of the people that utilize the (real) Sx Qm5 at the first stop (6th/36th), how many of those people would be left out if my rendition of a Qm5 were to come to fruition.... I'm not too sure of how many people specifically disembark the (real) Sx Qm5 west of 188th....

- As for the hypothetical Q27 breakup bit, sure, no problem.

- Local bus fleet on an express? They're starting up that crap again huh..... Don't miss that nonsense at all when it was persistent on the Spring Creek routes some odd years ago; as you say, you used to feel every goddamn bump on the FDR & the Gowanus.... You know this agency is done for when they start interlining local routes with express routes... Lol....

I'll get around to riding the SX one of these days to see how it goes...

my 2 worst express rides were: sitting in the rear stairwell on a SRO YON 92xx w/ mix-match seats and no heat in the dead of winter and a O5 CNG with local seats on the old 1A that hit every pothole to the point where a panel dislodged from the undercarriage and dragged from QB to Main.

We don't have suburban 40 fts anymore so I just don't understand how you interline them and don't give the operator enough time to swap out buses... You pretty much have to pass BP to get from the Q64/110/112 to Rochdale and if its a Brewer run I can't fathom why you would just end at the Depot.

On 8/11/2018 at 2:39 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I have been developing a plan for the Queens express bus network. The goal is to increase coverage of the system, and to provide greater service overall than the current network, which is greatly needed (sorely needed in some cases). I would like to hear input on this, especially those who frequently ride the Queens express buses. There are a couple of main components to this plan, with some relabeling, but here are the plans as follows:

List of Queens Express Bus Routes
 

QM1/2/9: don't know too much about the current routes but this looks good on a map

QM3: Pros: it skips Northern west of Flushing-Main

Neutral: While I've never seen anyone use it on LN, it's a long walk to Northern or HHE.

Cons: Like B35 said it not serving Northern west of Utopia would kill it. PW service is better East of Bayside (hence the QM3 ridership being higher west of there). The time we save off Northern (w/o Flushing), we lose meandering to get to Northern by Broadway. Now you could put it on Sanford and still get the Northern riders but idk where you go from there (I imagine Sanford-Kissena-HHE would just be stuck in traffic)... All day service is ambitious when most people would probably just want a Q12 LTD.

QM4/C/S/X: QM4 Extension to OG is perfect. I'm confused... I get the service patterns but if the QM4C/S/X don't make QM4 stops, why label them the same? For the X variant you could stop at Bell and go express from there (Oceania and F Lewis are dead)

QM6: eh.. LIJ is a good Q46 terminal but I'm not sure how many express riders are getting on/off there. It takes 2 minutes to go from 260-LN on Union; via GO will take 10-15 minutes and it'll be hard to stop at LN Eastbound and still make the left (unless you have it do Union-80-LN and use the Q36 stop). The stop at 75th can go but you need one at 73rd. I know it's an awful routing but the whatever serves LN has to either end at the Plaza and not serve the parkway or go to Glen Oaks because...

QM8/14/37: the GCP service road is narrow east of LN and NST would lose it w/all those buses terminating there. The problem w/ ending downtown service at the plaza is the current QM8 gets good ridership in GO. I'm not sure where you have the QM14 ending but there's no GCP/LN stop at all... you can't expect the people on the service road to walk to NST, 260/LN or LN/61.

QM12: Something needs to be on Yellowstone North of QB.

QM21: would Rochdale be okay only having service along one side (idk how long it takes to walk through). I always wondered why there's no FL/250 st stop for the x63 but why cut Hook Creek out?

QM22: I think an East Elmhurst/Jackson Heights route might fare better...

QM64/68: Peak, I'd probably have the QM68 as the route at Main St and then the next stop at Midland. Let the QM64 stay the same but just run express from the Van Wyck to the city.

 

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22 minutes ago, Q43 Floral Park said:

QM1/2/9: don't know too much about the current routes but this looks good on a map

QM3: Pros: it skips Northern west of Flushing-Main

Neutral: While I've never seen anyone use it on LN, it's a long walk to Northern or HHE.

Cons: Like B35 said it not serving Northern west of Utopia would kill it. PW service is better East of Bayside (hence the QM3 ridership being higher west of there). The time we save off Northern (w/o Flushing), we lose meandering to get to Northern by Broadway. Now you could put it on Sanford and still get the Northern riders but idk where you go from there (I imagine Sanford-Kissena-HHE would just be stuck in traffic)... All day service is ambitious when most people would probably just want a Q12 LTD.

QM4/C/S/X: QM4 Extension to OG is perfect. I'm confused... I get the service patterns but if the QM4C/S/X don't make QM4 stops, why label them the same? For the X variant you could stop at Bell and go express from there (Oceania and F Lewis are dead)

QM6: eh.. LIJ is a good Q46 terminal but I'm not sure how many express riders are getting on/off there. It takes 2 minutes to go from 260-LN on Union; via GO will take 10-15 minutes and it'll be hard to stop at LN Eastbound and still make the left (unless you have it do Union-80-LN and use the Q36 stop). The stop at 75th can go but you need one at 73rd. I know it's an awful routing but the whatever serves LN has to either end at the Plaza and not serve the parkway or go to Glen Oaks because...

QM8/14/37: the GCP service road is narrow east of LN and NST would lose it w/all those buses terminating there. The problem w/ ending downtown service at the plaza is the current QM8 gets good ridership in GO. I'm not sure where you have the QM14 ending but there's no GCP/LN stop at all... you can't expect the people on the service road to walk to NST, 260/LN or LN/61.

QM12: Something needs to be on Yellowstone North of QB.

QM21: would Rochdale be okay only having service along one side (idk how long it takes to walk through). I always wondered why there's no FL/250 st stop for the x63 but why cut Hook Creek out?

QM22: I think an East Elmhurst/Jackson Heights route might fare better...

QM64/68: Peak, I'd probably have the QM68 as the route at Main St and then the next stop at Midland. Let the QM64 stay the same but just run express from the Van Wyck to the city.

 

QM1 and friends: Cool.

QM3: Noted. I am in the process of releasing a newer version of the same map soon. I was going to attempt to consolidate the services given the current set-up in the general area with it and the (proposed) QM4. For off-peak, although I plan on getting some Northern Boulevard riders, the area where I expect to get the most riders would be from the East Flushing/Auburndale areas of the route, which I can see working out. The current nearest express bus is either the (current) QM20 or the (current) QM5/6 on Union Turnpike, which are basically the extremes of NE Queens.

QM4: So, in that area, there's a general trend in NE Queens when it comes to naming the express bus routes there. They're generally increasing in number the further down you go (but only for the Midtown routes only). The only exception is the 'QM1', because if relabeled the current QM2 into 'QM1' and current QM20 into 'QM2', we'll run into confusion on the return commute, because they make similar stops in some areas. Technically, since the proposed QM4 serves HHE & 164th, which is a current QM4 stop (except its on 164th and not on HHE), you could say that it somewhat resembles the current QM4. 

Either way, the QM4X doesn't skip Oceania and Francis Lewis Boulevard because the off-peak QM4C serves them. I just didn't want an awkward service pattern. It wouldn't add much to the trip to begin with, and it can possibly avoid all the vehicles entering/exiting the LIE main road to/from the Clearview Expressway. Might as well fill up those buses a little more, given the proposed headways (every 12 minutes in the AM, every 15 minutes in the PM). 

QM6: I'm going to rectify that with the off-peak pattern when the headway is frequent enough. During the peak, I'm planning on keeping the current service pattern. I plan some of the added time on the current QM6 riders east of Little Neck Parkway to be offset by the QM6X during those hours, as it would run non-stop west of 193 Street until Manhattan. As for the issue you bring up into the stops, I'll look into that and make modifications to them where it would be appropriate to do so. 

QM8, QM14, QM37: The only thing that is really new to North Shore Towers is the downtown service, but I'm still looking at other options for the QM8. The QM14 actually ends at Little Neck Parkway and does not serve North Shore Towers. 

QM12: I will make sure to add something in the next update. See my QM12 comments below.

QM21: Well, if most people getting on those stops are from Rochdale Village, then it would just make sense to concentrate them onto the Bedell stops instead of having them scattering onto the existing stops. I don't believe that there are many people using the bus in Rochdale Village that come from outside of the area. The loss of Hook Creek Boulevard service is more of a streamlining process, in order to get riders to Rosedale faster. However, generally speaking, I expect a similar amount of time from Rosedale to South Jamaica on the QM21 compared to the current X63, because of the additional volume of people on the single route. However, such a route would have rather decent headways as well.

QM22: I was also thinking that, but I don't know if there are riders deeper in Jackson Heights that would pay for the express bus. Most of the people that can afford the fare in the Jackson Heights area live in the area north of Northern Boulevard, west of the Q33, and south of Astoria Boulevard. It's not fancy and upscale, but there is a notable difference walking through that area. I don't see ridership from East Elmhurst, however. Maybe if it ran along 31st Avenue, but IDK really. 

QM64: The reason the pattern is like that is in order to make sure that people remain utilizing the X64/QM64 buses. I don't really want to create an issue where too few people use the bus. As it is, that bus carries the least out of all the SE Queens express bus routes. 

On 8/14/2018 at 10:25 PM, B35 via Church said:

Qm1/3: In other words, the losses that'd likely happen from this route/alteration of yours, compared to the (real) Qm20, won't be too significant, because you're having this route take away from the (real) Qm3..... Routing-wise, I don't see what's wrong with the (real) Qm20 & and not trying to be funny, but what you're doing to the Qm3 is a slap in the face for a lot of current riders on that route... See, the western portion of that route is the most patronized by far & having it pan southward IMO would decimate that route.... You're taking service away from the most patronized segment of the route (save for the 149th & Parsons stops, which you retain with your Qm1) & (the way I see it) it's as if you're trying to send the message that, hey, for all you guys that's proximate to LIRR Broadway, here, take the LIRR.... If I took a dollar from you & gave you back a quarter, you'd want to kick my ass - That's how I'm seeing your Qm3 - In terms of comparability, I don't see your proposed route coming close to breaking even with the current Qm3 usage - which isn't anything to write home about to begin with (3 stinking trips in each direction doesn't help matters either).....

That routing south of Northern would also be a deterrent for the more easterly riders of the Qm3.... Although not exact, but that routing down there in general reminds me of the old x51 (putting buses on Sanford was plain old stupid), but having expresses run any part of Kissena, north of HHE, again, is suicide.....

If you really think it's worth serving that particular market with an express bus, it should be with a separate route terminating elsewhere, not taking away from what little patronage the Qm3 has.... JMO.

Qm2: Yup, hence why I say it'd make it slower (albeit more useful)..... The (real) Qm2 running along the service rd (Whitestone) north of Linden pl. though is a bit of a waste...

Qm4x, etc.: Surely you didn't expect those of us from the outside looking in, to know that.... You change the colors on your map now, but originally you had everything representing that corridor in green; confusing.... Nonetheless, thanks for the explanation; although I'm not at all wild about having HHE as a major corridor, the breakdowns of what each route does is clearer now.....

Qm5/7/20/29/35: Alright, gotcha....

Qm6: Yeah - which is exactly what I did w/ my Union Tpke (routes) restructure.... One branch running the current Qm6 route & the other Qm6 branch running up LNP from Union Tpke to HHE.....

Qm12: Going off the cuff here.... Using outbound service as a talking point, how about a route doing the real Qm12 routing to Yellowstone/QB, then doing the real Qm18 route to Met/Lefferts (or terminating elsewhere)? Basically acting as a supplement to the Qm18.....

Qm15/16/17: I get what you want to do/rectify with the Qm15 - However, there's no need to include the Qm16 & 17 in any of it.... But FWIW, let's see what you got.

Qm22/52: I figured that much (about your aim/attempt).... I'm not necessarily saying that you're wrong or right; I personally wouldn't take the chance in running a service like that....

Qm24/34: I'll take your word for it.... Good to know; I haven't utilized those Glendale expresses in a LONG time now.... lol....

QM1/QM3: Since the QM2 would serve Mitchell Gardens (and with improved frequency), I was thinking on expanding the current service area using the same amount of resources). But i'll take the QM3 comments into consideration.

QM4: Also something not mentioned, but if traffic is a real issue, B/Os would also be able to using either Booth Memorial or Jewel Avenue, at their sole discretion. 

QM6: Like I mentioned above, I'll keep the peak pattern as it is because it'll be offset by bypassing everything west of 193 Street, however I'll look into the off-peak service pattern and change that.

QM12: Regarding a Yellowstone Boulevard service, yeah, that's what I was envisioning more or less after my response.

QM2/15/16/17/22/24/34/52: Noted

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I have a proposal regarding Woodhaven local service.

The Q11, and 21 currently duplicate each other along Woodhaven Blvd. (with exception to a few night trip, every Q21 trip is either 5 minutes before or after the Q11 trip.

My proposal is to 

- Eliminate the Q21 between Rockaway Blvd (A) station and QCM all times.  Increase the frequency btw Lindenwood to Rockaway portion to once every 10 minutes

- Add Q11 short turns night trip to Piktin Av during some evenings to replace Q21

- Short turn every other Q41 Bus at Rockaway Blvd. Passengers could transfer to Q21 at Rockaway Blvd or take a direct Q41 trip during weekdays and saturdays

- Run additional Q41 trips during weekends (esp Sunday) between Rockaway Bl and Jamaica. (Maybe every 10 min on Saturday and every 15 min on Sunday) 

 

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3 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I have a proposal regarding Woodhaven local service.

The Q11, and 21 currently duplicate each other along Woodhaven Blvd. (with exception to a few night trip, every Q21 trip is either 5 minutes before or after the Q11 trip.

My proposal is to 

- Eliminate the Q21 between Rockaway Blvd (A) station and QCM all times.  Increase the frequency btw Lindenwood to Rockaway portion to once every 10 minutes

- Add Q11 short turns night trip to Piktin Av during some evenings to replace Q21

- Short turn every other Q41 Bus at Rockaway Blvd. Passengers could transfer to Q21 at Rockaway Blvd or take a direct Q41 trip during weekdays and saturdays

- Run additional Q41 trips during weekends (esp Sunday) between Rockaway Bl and Jamaica. (Maybe every 10 min on Saturday and every 15 min on Sunday) 

 

Ever since the Q52 was created I’ve felt that the Q21 was a waste of resources. I’ve always felt that if people needed to go to Lindenwood they could transfer to the Q41.  

Speaking of duplicating routes I wonder why the Q34 still exist to Jamaica. I would cut it back to Flushing and extend it further down Willets Point Blvd. One of the big reasons I’d say get rid of it is because it’s  usually bunched with the Q25 when it runs. 

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10 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I have a proposal regarding Woodhaven local service.

The Q11, and 21 currently duplicate each other along Woodhaven Blvd. (with exception to a few night trip, every Q21 trip is either 5 minutes before or after the Q11 trip.

My proposal is to 

- Eliminate the Q21 between Rockaway Blvd (A) station and QCM all times.  Increase the frequency btw Lindenwood to Rockaway portion to once every 10 minutes

- Add Q11 short turns night trip to Piktin Av during some evenings to replace Q21

- Short turn every other Q41 Bus at Rockaway Blvd. Passengers could transfer to Q21 at Rockaway Blvd or take a direct Q41 trip during weekdays and saturdays

- Run additional Q41 trips during weekends (esp Sunday) between Rockaway Bl and Jamaica. (Maybe every 10 min on Saturday and every 15 min on Sunday) 

Of course this won't happen, but (save for the express buses) I would only have two routes running via Woodhaven - The Q11 & the Q53.

Keeping the focus on the local routes here - While the Q11 would still have 2 branches, the difference would be that one branch would consist of (a combination of the Old Howard/Hamilton Beach. spurs) & the other branch would run the (current Q21 routing b/w Rockaway Blvd (A) & Cross Bay/164th)..... Most service would be dedicated towards the latter... There would still be short turns at Pitkin..... An overall service boost of the Q11 would be in order....

The Q41 wouldn't factor into anything mentioned above & thus, would be left alone....

 

Edited by B35 via Church
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7 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Ever since the Q52 was created I’ve felt that the Q21 was a waste of resources. I’ve always felt that if people needed to go to Lindenwood they could transfer to the Q41.  

Speaking of duplicating routes I wonder why the Q34 still exist to Jamaica. I would cut it back to Flushing and extend it further down Willets Point Blvd. One of the big reasons I’d say get rid of it is because it’s  usually bunched with the Q25 when it runs. 

To me the Q34 would be more useful if the Q25 was fully limited weekdays. I do agree with your idea though.

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21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Of course this won't happen, but (save for the express buses) I would only have two routes running via Woodhaven - The Q11 & the Q53.

Keeping the focus on the local routes here - While the Q11 would still have 2 branches, the difference would be that one branch would consist of (a combination of the Old Howard/Hamilton Beach. spurs) & the other branch would run the (current Q21 routing b/w Rockaway Blvd (A) & Cross Bay/164th)..... Most service would be dedicated towards the latter... There would still be short turns at Pitkin..... An overall service boost of the Q11 would be in order....

The Q41 wouldn't factor into anything mentioned above & thus, would be left alone....

 

I don’t think the MTA would be willing to get rid of the Q52 since it’s an SBS route which in their eyes is the ultimate answer to having faster and reliable service (which in my eyes is a joke). Plus the service on the (A) ‘s branches outside of rush hour is still terrible especially on the weekends. If I’m not mistaken I’m pretty sure the Q52 was created due to fact that the (A) was unreliable in Rockaway. However I do wonder how many people actually ride the Q52 in Rockaway past the Rockaway Blvd station. Is the Q52 justified to even run all the way up to Elmhurst? I do agree with having Q11 and Q53 being the primary Woodhaven routes. If the MTA handled thing correctly back in 2007/2008 they would have increased service on both the Q11 and Q53 with the latter having more short turns at Queens Blvd where the Q11 ends at. So for every two or even three buses that go to Woodside one bus terminates at Queens Blvd. The Q21 could have shifted to run from Beach 67th or 54th to the Rockaway Blvd station without turning off to serve the residential part of Howard’s beach. However now with the Q52 in the picture it should complete be eliminated.

I think Woodhaven Blvd is a perfect example of the old mentality of the MTA when it comes to improving service on major corridors. It seems that they just throw multiple services on the same street and have this huge overlap in coverage. Lexington/3rd Ave and Madison/5th Ave routes are a perfect examples of this. I’m sure service like this had some type of significance in the past, however I don’t think it’s necessary now.

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

To me the Q34 would be more useful if the Q25 was fully limited weekdays. I do agree with your idea though.

I feel the Q34 serves no unique purpose of its own compared to Main Street where the Q44 is SBS to the Bronx and the Q20 is all local. So on Kissena Blvd and Parsons Blvd you have this useless overlap of the Q25 and Q34. That’s why I say get rid of the Q34 and improve the Q25

I would improve the Q25 route in these ways.

1) LTD Service could run later in the evening. The last LTD currently from Jamaica is at 6:51pm while the last LTD from College Point is at 6:27pm. That’s way too early, since the Q17 and Q27 LTD’s run long past that until 10pm. I would run the Q25 LTD at least until 8:30pm. 

2) I believe to increase reliability of the Q25, there needs to be short turns at Flushing Main street where buses can turn around and head back to Jamaica. There are too many times where several buses are bunched together creating a huge gap in service because all the buses are going up to either College Point or Whitestone. 

These short turns would exist throughout the day being most frequent during the off peak hours. The Q34 only runs on 20 minutes headway’s to Jamaica during the rush hour, so those three trips would turn into short turned Q25’s during the rush hour.

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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Regarding the Q11/ Q21, I would actually do the opposite. I would eliminate the Q11, and have the Q21 assume the combined frequency north & south of the (A) . The Q41 would terminate at Rockaway Boulevard (A) station.

The justification of terminating the Q21 At Rockaway Bl was to give Lindenwood passengers a high level of service to the subway station. Then in turn we could increase the frequency on the Q41 btw Jamaica and Rockaway Blvd by cutting half of the trips at Rockaway Blvd. 

Regarding the Q11 we could run the Q11 at higher frequency to Howard/Hamilton but I am not sure about the ridership pattern or the usage in that area.

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1 hour ago, Mtatransit said:

The justification of terminating the Q21 At Rockaway Bl was to give Lindenwood passengers a high level of service to the subway station. Then in turn we could increase the frequency on the Q41 btw Jamaica and Rockaway Blvd by cutting half of the trips at Rockaway Blvd. 

Regarding the Q11 we could run the Q11 at higher frequency to Howard/Hamilton but I am not sure about the ridership pattern or the usage in that area.

The Q11 does not need higher frequencies south of Pitkin. That service is basically coverage, and that still overserves that area.  The areas where most people get the Q11 south of Pitkin are within reasonable walking distance from the Q21 anyway. If the Q21 assumes the combined frequency, it would run every 5 or so minutes during the rush, and every 15 minutes during off-peak periods. That's enough to make the Q21 the standalone Lindenwood route to the (A) , and the Q21 the standalone Woodhaven Boulevard route. Besides, with one route, the spacing of off-peak service would be resolved.

 

If a pedestrian bridge linked Old Howard Beach with Howard Beach, you wouldn't need the Q11 at all in that area. Maybe have some peak Q11 buses run there, but otherwise, hardly anyone rides it. Additionally, you can have the Q11 run during off peak hours south of Rockaway Boulevard on coverage headways, but IDK about that.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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41 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Q11 does not need higher frequencies south of Pitkin. That service is basically coverage, and that still overserves that area.  The areas where most people get the Q11 south of Pitkin are within reasonable walking distance from the Q21 anyway. If the Q21 assumes the combined frequency, it would run every 5 or so minutes during the rush, and every 15 minutes during off-peak periods. That's enough to make the Q21 the standalone Lindenwood route to the (A) , and the Q21 the standalone Woodhaven Boulevard route. Besides, with one route, the spacing of off-peak service would be resolved.

 

If a pedestrian bridge linked Old Howard Beach with Howard Beach, you wouldn't need the Q11 at all in that area. Maybe have some peak Q11 buses run there, but otherwise, hardly anyone rides it. Additionally, you can have the Q11 run during off peak hours south of Rockaway Boulevard on coverage headways, but IDK about that.

I saw a map that showed a bridge there with buses running in a loop.

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37 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Q11 does not need higher frequencies south of Pitkin. That service is basically coverage, and that still overserves that area.  The areas where most people get the Q11 south of Pitkin are within reasonable walking distance from the Q21 anyway. If the Q21 assumes the combined frequency, it would run every 5 or so minutes during the rush, and every 15 minutes during off-peak periods. That's enough to make the Q21 the standalone Lindenwood route to the (A) , and the Q21 the standalone Woodhaven Boulevard route. Besides, with one route, the spacing of off-peak service would be resolved.

 

If a pedestrian bridge linked Old Howard Beach with Howard Beach, you wouldn't need the Q11 at all in that area. Maybe have some peak Q11 buses run there, but otherwise, hardly anyone rides it. Additionally, you can have the Q11 run during off peak hours south of Rockaway Boulevard on coverage headways, but IDK about that.

You also need to know that Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach is separated by the Hawtree Basin, so even with a new pedestrian bridge linking Howard Beach and Old Howard Beach, to get there by foot, one would have to walk first to the 163rd Avenue Bridge and then to a new Howard Beach Pedestrian Bridge to Cross Bay Blvd. In the eyes of a Hamilton Beach resident (which I’m not), that is a long walk, especially after 10:00 PM. Therefore, bus service would still be needed in those areas.

 

Have you also considered proposing what was proposed in a 2004 DOT study of bus routes? This is what was proposed:

  • Q11 operates with three branches. The two current branches and a branch to Howard Beach via Lindenwood. This is similar to the Woodhaven Blvd current service pattern.
  • With the Q11 serving Lindenwood, the Q21 and Q41 would no longer be needed south of Liberty Avenue. The Q21 would’ve been eliminated and the Q41 truncated to Liberty Avenue.
  • The Q53 would’ve made all stops south of Liberty Avenue to replace Q21 service.

Differinng from that proposal, all Q11 branches would operate every 15 minutes most of the day.

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9 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

You also need to know that Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach is separated by the Hawtree Basin, so even with a new pedestrian bridge linking Howard Beach and Old Howard Beach, to get there by foot, one would have to walk first to the 163rd Avenue Bridge and then to a new Howard Beach Pedestrian Bridge to Cross Bay Blvd. In the eyes of a Hamilton Beach resident (which I’m not), that is a long walk, especially after 10:00 PM. Therefore, bus service would still be needed in those areas.

 

Have you also considered proposing what was proposed in a 2004 DOT study of bus routes? This is what was proposed:

  • Q11 operates with three branches. The two current branches and a branch to Howard Beach via Lindenwood. This is similar to the Woodhaven Blvd current service pattern.
  • With the Q11 serving Lindenwood, the Q21 and Q41 would no longer be needed south of Liberty Avenue. The Q21 would’ve been eliminated and the Q41 truncated to Liberty Avenue.
  • The Q53 would’ve made all stops south of Liberty Avenue to replace Q21 service.

Differinng from that proposal, all Q11 branches would operate every 15 minutes most of the day.

Yes, I am aware of the geography in that area. 

 

Honestly, the current service the Q11 provides in that area is more than enough. Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach residents are just not using the bus like that, at all, especially after sunset. There's also no service past 10:15 PM on the Hamilton Beach Branch anyways.

 

I would prefer not to have so many branches on the Q11. It just doesn't make sense anymore to attach the Old Howard and Hamilton Beach portions to the current Q11. It should be a separate route, so that there can be one route serving Woodhaven & Cross Bay on the mainland. This way, there's also no inconsistent headways like there currently is. Also, the Q53 makes enough stops as it is. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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3 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yes, I am aware of the geography in that area. 

 

Honestly, the current service the Q11 provides in that area is more than enough. Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach residents are just not using the bus like that, at all, especially after sunset. There's also no service past 10:15 PM on the Hamilton Beach Branch anyways.

 

I would prefer not to have so many branches on the Q11. It just doesn't make sense anymore to attach the Old Howard and Hamilton Beach portions to the current Q11. It should be a separate route, so that there can be one route serving Woodhaven & Cross Bay on the mainland. This way, there's also no inconsistent headways like there currently is. Also, the Q53 makes enough stops as it is. 

There are already a lot of branches on the Q11. If you consider the Q21 part of the Q11, which kinda feels like it, you have your three Q11 branches.

There was also an option of having the Q11 solely operating between 74th Street-Broadway (the plan called for the Q11 to be extended there) and Howard Beach via Lindenwood only, and have Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach branches be independent bus routes, operating to and from Liberty Avenue only.

As far as the Q53 making all stops south of Liberty, it was proposed to replace Q21 local bus service between Liberty Avenue and Rockaway Park, thus preserving local bus service between Ozone Park and the Rockaways (which no one actually rode).

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8 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There are already a lot of branches on the Q11. If you consider the Q21 part of the Q11, which kinda feels like it, you have your three Q11 branches.

There was also an option of having the Q11 solely operating between 74th Street-Broadway (the plan called for the Q11 to be extended there) and Howard Beach via Lindenwood only, and have Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach branches be independent bus routes, operating to and from Liberty Avenue only.

As far as the Q53 making all stops south of Liberty, it was proposed to replace Q21 local bus service between Liberty Avenue and Rockaway Park, thus preserving local bus service between Ozone Park and the Rockaways (which no one actually rode).

Yes, but none of this is actually necessary. The Q21 is a variant of the Q11, but it isn't necessary to call all three branches the Q11. I don't see what that solves. Instead, it'll just add confusion. The reason the Q11's branches are not that big of a problem are because not only are they at the ends of the route, but they're on the least busiest part of the route. 

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4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yes, I am aware of the geography in that area. 

 

Honestly, the current service the Q11 provides in that area is more than enough. Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach residents are just not using the bus like that, at all, especially after sunset. There's also no service past 10:15 PM on the Hamilton Beach Branch anyways.

 

I would prefer not to have so many branches on the Q11. It just doesn't make sense anymore to attach the Old Howard and Hamilton Beach portions to the current Q11. It should be a separate route, so that there can be one route serving Woodhaven & Cross Bay on the mainland. This way, there's also no inconsistent headways like there currently is. Also, the Q53 makes enough stops as it is. 

I think during off peak hours, the current headway is sufficient on the Q11 branch at once an hour to both Hamilton and Howard Beach. We could maybe pare back service during the rush hour.

4 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There are already a lot of branches on the Q11. If you consider the Q21 part of the Q11, which kinda feels like it, you have your three Q11 branches.

There was also an option of having the Q11 solely operating between 74th Street-Broadway (the plan called for the Q11 to be extended there) and Howard Beach via Lindenwood only, and have Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach branches be independent bus routes, operating to and from Liberty Avenue only.

As far as the Q53 making all stops south of Liberty, it was proposed to replace Q21 local bus service between Liberty Avenue and Rockaway Park, thus preserving local bus service between Ozone Park and the Rockaways (which no one actually rode).

No Woodhaven local should go north of Queens Blvd. That is just duplicating the QBL. 

4 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Here's a better idea... 

 

Wait for the bus network redesign to reach Queens, then go to the meetings and present your ideas there.

You mean in 5 years? This is the Queens Division Bus Proposals/Idea thread... you know where ideas are discussed.

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24 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

No Woodhaven local should go north of Queens Blvd. That is just duplicating the QBL. 

But you do realize that the Woodhaven Blvd station is not ADA-accessible. There is no elevators at that stop. The Q11 extension was proposed possibly to bring the bus route to an ADA-accessible station (74th Street-Broadway). Also improves connectivity to other bus routes, such as the Q70 SBS LaGuardia Link Bus.

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15 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

But you do realize that the Woodhaven Blvd station is not ADA-accessible. There is no elevators at that stop. The Q11 extension was proposed possibly to bring the bus route to an ADA-accessible station (74th Street-Broadway). Also improves connectivity to other bus routes, such as the Q70 SBS LaGuardia Link Bus.

Then add Q53 service and call it a day if it's necessary. No need for the Q11 to go north of Queens Boulevard.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

But you do realize that the Woodhaven Blvd station is not ADA-accessible. There is no elevators at that stop. The Q11 extension was proposed possibly to bring the bus route to an ADA-accessible station (74th Street-Broadway). Also improves connectivity to other bus routes, such as the Q70 SBS LaGuardia Link Bus.

My motto for bus service is to be a feeder to the subway. I think the shorter the buses are, the less they are prone to delays, which is why I agree with the MTA's rational to cut the B46 SBS to Broadway rather than continue it down to Willy bridge

By having the Q11 extended to 74 St, you encounter traffic on Broadway, and on Queens Blvd reducing its reliability. For now I think most people should be fine taking the subway or the Q53. 

Plus I think the Q53 should be cut back to 74th St anyways, no point in continuing to 61 St like that. Passengers could just show a Q53 SBS ticket to get on the 70 if they need 61 St

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1 minute ago, Mtatransit said:

My motto for bus service is to be a feeder to the subway. I think the shorter the buses are, the less they are prone to delays, which is why I agree with the MTA's rational to cut the B46 SBS to Broadway rather than continue it down to Willy bridge

By having the Q11 extended to 74 St, you encounter traffic on Broadway, and on Queens Blvd reducing its reliability. For now I think most people should be fine taking the subway or the Q53. 

Plus I think the Q53 should be cut back to 74th St anyways, no point in continuing to 61 St like that. Passengers could just show a Q53 SBS ticket to get on the 70 if they need 61 St

I disagree, there actually is a good amount of people going to Woodside. That wasn't the case before, but now they are well utilized.

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4 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

My motto for bus service is to be a feeder to the subway. I think the shorter the buses are, the less they are prone to delays, which is why I agree with the MTA's rational to cut the B46 SBS to Broadway rather than continue it down to Willy bridge

By having the Q11 extended to 74 St, you encounter traffic on Broadway, and on Queens Blvd reducing its reliability. For now I think most people should be fine taking the subway or the Q53. 

Plus I think the Q53 should be cut back to 74th St anyways, no point in continuing to 61 St like that. Passengers could just show a Q53 SBS ticket to get on the 70 if they need 61 St

There are quite a bit of people who use the Q53 from Woodside. However it’s plagued by traffic on Roosevelt and Broadway which slows the route down a lot. It can be frustrating sometimes taking the Q53 because of how bad traffic can be. However I also think they want to keep the transfer between the LIRR and the <7> available for the Q53. 

 

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Well this thread blew up a bit...

14 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There are already a lot of branches on the Q11. If you consider the Q21 part of the Q11, which kinda feels like it, you have your three Q11 branches.

There was also an option of having the Q11 solely operating between 74th Street-Broadway (the plan called for the Q11 to be extended there) and Howard Beach via Lindenwood only, and have Hamilton Beach and Old Howard Beach branches be independent bus routes, operating to and from Liberty Avenue only.

As far as the Q53 making all stops south of Liberty, it was proposed to replace Q21 local bus service between Liberty Avenue and Rockaway Park, thus preserving local bus service between Ozone Park and the Rockaways (which no one actually rode).

14 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yes, but none of this is actually necessary. The Q21 is a variant of the Q11, but it isn't necessary to call all three branches the Q11. I don't see what that solves. Instead, it'll just add confusion. The reason the Q11's branches are not that big of a problem are because not only are they at the ends of the route, but they're on the least busiest part of the route. 

There shouldn't be three branches of the Q11 & I could care less what they're called... My issue w/ the Q11 east of Cross Bay has long been that Old Howard & Hamilton Beach are separate branches... No bus route should be terminating down at 165th/104th (Hamilton Beach)....

I would still have the Q11 serving both "sides" of Cross Bay though.... The way they bastardized the Q11 to spare the Q21 (and to be honest, the old Q21LTD/Q52) I never cared for..... There was nothing wrong with the Q11; go back & take a gander at some old ridership stats to get an idea....Way I see it, there wouldn't be a need for a Q52 If the older Q21 ended somewhere east of the Hammels wye (instead of at B. 116th) that ran via Lindenwood..... Lindenwood patrons aren't really riding past Rockaway Blvd. (A) to the north in any significant numbers enough to have warranted that extension of it to QCM....

A service pattern that has a local route running between Arverne & Rockaway Blvd. (A)  (via Lindenwood) would suffice - the question would only be one of service levels....

9 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

But you do realize that the Woodhaven Blvd station is not ADA-accessible. There is no elevators at that stop. The Q11 extension was proposed possibly to bring the bus route to an ADA-accessible station (74th Street-Broadway). Also improves connectivity to other bus routes, such as the Q70 SBS LaGuardia Link Bus.

Can't have every route connecting to the infamous, revered, state-of-the-art, groundbreaking Q70......

Not remotely worth it to run the Woodhaven locals past QB/QCM.....

7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

My motto for bus service is to be a feeder to the subway. I think the shorter the buses are, the less they are prone to delays, which is why I agree with the MTA's rational to cut the B46 SBS to Broadway rather than continue it down to Willy bridge

By having the Q11 extended to 74 St, you encounter traffic on Broadway, and on Queens Blvd reducing its reliability. For now I think most people should be fine taking the subway or the Q53. 

Plus I think the Q53 should be cut back to 74th St anyways, no point in continuing to 61 St like that. Passengers could just show a Q53 SBS ticket to get on the 70 if they need 61 St

I'll say this much - Too many bus routes running short distances as part of a network in a city (well in our case, individual boroughs) this large/populous can loom detrimental - especially if we're talking about providing sufficient service across the board.... There is an adage that says "speed kills" - but here in NYC, it's traffic that's doing the killing (lol),.... Anyway, my train of thought is to have bus service aim to transport people, separate of whatever & however more efficient rail service is (that includes dropping people off at some rail/subway station, but not have it be the main focus, per se).... I may be in a minority in this little online transit community with this, but I don't view rail service as a means to an end for bus service (although they make for decent terminals - right along with a place for a b/o to stop off & get a bite to eat).....

The B46 SBS cutback to DeKalb had less to do with being short(er) & more to do with being less indirect....

As for the Q53, I can't agree with cutting Q53's & all its BPH back to 74th; the immediate area is clogged up enough with buses & other traffic as it is..... NB buses may tank out at 74th, but SB buses out of 61st isn't anything to ignore in the slightest.... I wish they had artics on the Q53 back when I used to take it out of 61st with regularity....

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My experience for the Q53 aleast N/B is that most passengers got off at 74 St- Bwy. There is a sizable amount of people going to 61st but does not warrant an articulated bus going every few min down there. I stand corrected about Rockaway Bound trips. 

The Q70 however is completely empty btwn 61 St and 74 St. I can say that based on the amount of buses I see going and coming back at 74th. 

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