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Q43LTD

Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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28 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Anyways, how does bunching form again, I forgot?

Bunching forms whenever there is poor dispatching and/or poor traffic flow... Buses #9909 and #9926 are moving at normal pace down a road, 5 minutes apart with #9909 leading. A sudden traffic and a wheelchair passenger  slows down bus #9909 and within a span of 5 minutes, it's only moved forward a block. Within that time, #9926 has caught up to within 1-3 blocks of #9909, depending on how many cars got stuck behind #9909... Then as both buses proceed down the route, #9909 will get more and more behind schedule, leading more people than normal to board it at every single stop slowing it down further. Meanwhile #9926 won't be picking up more people because it's so close to #9909 and eventually #9926 will be riding #9909s ass all the way to the terminal... And if the dispatching is poor, both buses will continue to tail each other for the rest of the night...

28 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

And would a redesign of 108th Street help the Q23 in any way possible?

There's not much you could do.  Given how much of 108 street is one lane per direction, especially up north, with some wiggle room for double parked cars (which is inevitable for 108 street), you can't put in a bus only lane without taking out parking, and there's no way in hell that they'd take parking off of 108

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On 11/22/2018 at 4:21 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Geez, this thread hasn't been touched in a while. 

I'm making a small proposal to reroute the Q23 straight down Continental Avenue. The reason for this is because Austin Street is congested during most hours of the day and it is hard for the Q23 to make that 90 degree curve between Austin Street and Continental Avenue, let alone operate thought Austin Street. 

Stops:

Queens Blvd/71st Av - Transfer to the (E)(F)(M)(R) Q60 and Q64. 

Austin Street/71st Avenue - Connection to the LIRR

Exter St/71 Av 

Ingram St/71 Av

Loubet St/71 Av

Metropolitan Av/71 Av - Transfer to the Q54. 

A new bus route would takeover the Yellowstone portion of the Q23. The 69th Avenue portion would be in between Continental and Yellowstone, thus passengers in need of this area could walk to either the Q23 or this new bus route (which I haven't put much thought into yet) with the QM12 and QM42. 

An alternative idea would be to rebuild Citibank between Austin Street and Continental Avenue. 

Any thoughts? 

 

 

The section of Continental Avenue through Forest Hills Gardens (from Burns Street to mid-block between Groton and Harrow Streets) is privately owned and maintained. The Q23 route loops around the area specifically to use only public streets. 

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On 11/22/2018 at 7:40 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

If that's no good, then you can add curb lanes on Austin Street. 

Bus lanes? That’d make the traffic situation much worse on Austin St. (which is already a somewhat small street near the car-heavy Queens Bvld.). It’ll only save the bus (Q23) a few minutes of time. But force drivers who drive or park (some reluctant to any public transport unfortunatley), onto other streets that are already packed with cars and buses, or parking lots that will now be overloaded and more expensive. That’s seems a little inefficent to me. I can’t imagine the troubles as well if the lanes aren’t enforced, a common issue I see today on some lanes throughout the city.

Edited by NoHacksJustKhaks

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For me, this is my take on the situation:

Q66 and Q69 should be made SBS and routed into Manhattan down 57st to Columbus Circle. Q69 should be extended down Astoria Blvd to Flushing to replace Q19 service.

Q88 should stay on Horace Harding to Little Neck Parkway. 

Q30 runs new route where it runs up Homelawn St/Utopia Pkwy, then turns down 73rd Ave to Bell Blvd, then heads straight up Bell to Bay Terrace. 

Q31 continues straight up Utopia Pkwy to Cross Island Expressway. Runs down Cross Island/14 ave, turns onto Parsons, then turns onto 20th Ave to serve the College Point shopping center. 

Q16 is split into two routes: Q14 runs down Bayside Ave/29 Av to Utopia. Runs up Utopia then follows Cross Island to Ft Totten. Q16 runs further up Union st to Willets Pt Blvd then runs along Willets Pt Blvd and Cross Island to Ft Totten

 

These are just a few off the top of my head. 

 

 

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On 11/24/2018 at 10:03 AM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

The section of Continental Avenue through Forest Hills Gardens (from Burns Street to mid-block between Groton and Harrow Streets) is privately owned and maintained. The Q23 route loops around the area specifically to use only public streets. 

Yes I'm aware of that. Forest Hills Gardens. @BM5 via Woodhaven already explained why this wouldn't work. 

On 11/24/2018 at 10:46 AM, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Bus lanes? That’d make the traffic situation much worse on Austin St. (which is already a somewhat small street near the car-heavy Queens Bvld.). It’ll only save the bus (Q23) a few minutes of time. But force drivers who drive or park (some reluctant to any public transport unfortunatley), onto other streets that are already packed with cars and buses, or parking lots that will now be overloaded and more expensive. That’s seems a little inefficent to me. I can’t imagine the troubles as well if the lanes aren’t enforced, a common issue I see today on some lanes throughout the city.

I said Curb Lanes, meaning that a lane would only be put on the Bus Stops themselves and not on the entirety of Austin Street. I'm already aware of the situation on Austin Street. It's much worse when you get caught in the mess of cars stuck in traffic. (which I have witnessed both in a pedestrian and (car) passenger point of view) Even if these lanes WERE enforced, it should only be enforced during the daytime hours. And one last thing. If this is an issue across the city, then why doesn't anyone (within (MTA) and DOT) want to solve it (other than the reason for convenience) ?

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On 11/24/2018 at 3:08 PM, shiznit1987 said:

For me, this is my take on the situation:

Q66 and Q69 should be made SBS and routed into Manhattan down 57st to Columbus Circle. Q69 should be extended down Astoria Blvd to Flushing to replace Q19 service.

Q88 should stay on Horace Harding to Little Neck Parkway. 

Q30 runs new route where it runs up Homelawn St/Utopia Pkwy, then turns down 73rd Ave to Bell Blvd, then heads straight up Bell to Bay Terrace. 

Q31 continues straight up Utopia Pkwy to Cross Island Expressway. Runs down Cross Island/14 ave, turns onto Parsons, then turns onto 20th Ave to serve the College Point shopping center. 

Q16 is split into two routes: Q14 runs down Bayside Ave/29 Av to Utopia. Runs up Utopia then follows Cross Island to Ft Totten. Q16 runs further up Union st to Willets Pt Blvd then runs along Willets Pt Blvd and Cross Island to Ft Totten

 

These are just a few off the top of my head. 

 

 

I never was a fan of the Q66 SBS proposal   that would go from Flushing to Columbus Circle of all places. Not only will traffic be a huge problem (since bus lanes aren’t enforced that well, and Manhattan is a pain driving through) but is there a demand for such a route? I think the Q66 is okay with how it is even though I would tweak its routing to access Queens Plaza more directly instead of having to serve Queensbridge.

The Q69 doesn’t need to serve Manhattan either. What I would do with the Q69 is have it follow the Q66 and Q100 routes when traveling back to 21st Street. I don’t think it needs to run via Court Square. That just adds unnecessary time to the route.

Also while not the ideal northern terminal for the Q69, I would not have it replace the Q19 as the Q19 can hold its own on Astoria. Plus you would have the Q69 do too much and that’s a problem that lots of routes throughout the system have. The Q19 while coming a long ways from the days of the PBL, it is still plagued by poor frequency of service and years of being taken as a joke. I always said that the MTA needs to increase service all together for that route. Make it run perhaps every 12-15 minutes most of the day during the weekdays. I would have it run every 20 mins for now on the weekends and I guarantee that people will start to trust that route more. Currently (especially on the weekends) if you miss the Q19 you are better off walking or trying to catch another route. It still ends way too early so you are out of luck after 9pm. I would have it run to at least 11pm-11:30pm to help improve connectivity to Flushing which is lacking at night. 

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3 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I never was a fan of the Q66 SBS proposal   that would go from Flushing to Columbus Circle of all places. Not only will traffic be a huge problem (since bus lanes aren’t enforced that well, and Manhattan is a pain driving through) but is there a demand for such a route? I think the Q66 is okay with how it is even though I would tweak its routing to access Queens Plaza more directly instead of having to serve Queensbridge.

The Q69 doesn’t need to serve Manhattan either. What I would do with the Q69 is have it follow the Q66 and Q100 routes when traveling back to 21st Street. I don’t think it needs to run via Court Square. That just adds unnecessary time to the route.

Also while not the ideal northern terminal for the Q69, I would not have it replace the Q19 as the Q19 can hold its own on Astoria. Plus you would have the Q69 do too much and that’s a problem that lots of routes throughout the system have. The Q19 while coming a long ways from the days of the PBL, it is still plagued by poor frequency of service and years of being taken as a joke. I always said that the MTA needs to increase service all together for that route. Make it run perhaps every 12-15 minutes most of the day during the weekdays. I would have it run every 20 mins for now on the weekends and I guarantee that people will start to trust that route more. Currently (especially on the weekends) if you miss the Q19 you are better off walking or trying to catch another route. It still ends way too early so you are out of luck after 9pm. I would have it run to at least 11pm-11:30pm to help improve connectivity to Flushing which is lacking at night. 

The only way to know if such routes would work is to do a study.  

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New Proposal: A new Bus route will be created to go under Yellowstone Boulevard. It will start at 164th Street with the Q64. It will go down the Q64 route until Queens Boulevard, where it will go down Yellowstone Boulevard. Once it reaches Woodhaven Boulevard, this new route will go down Cooper Avenue and Terminate at The Shops at Atlas Park. 

I haven't thought of a name for this route, but here is a W.I.P. map where I included this route. 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mWHKLnweZ6s1jEp9jEwOP7GibgIuBOfC&usp=sharing

Now what are your thoughts on this new route?

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5 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

New Proposal: A new Bus route will be created to go under Yellowstone Boulevard. It will start at 164th Street with the Q64. It will go down the Q64 route until Queens Boulevard, where it will go down Yellowstone Boulevard. Once it reaches Woodhaven Boulevard, this new route will go down Cooper Avenue and Terminate at The Shops at Atlas Park. 

I haven't thought of a name for this route, but here is a W.I.P. map where I included this route. 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mWHKLnweZ6s1jEp9jEwOP7GibgIuBOfC&usp=sharing

Now what are your thoughts on this new route?

 

It sounds like an extended Q64, so just call it Q64.

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13 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

It sounds like an extended Q64, so just call it Q64.

I could, but then it’s missing the connection with Forest Hills-71st Avenue with the (E)(F)(M)(R) Q60, Q23, and the LIRR in favor of having this route go straight down Yellowstone Blvd. So for now, I’ll just call it the Q64A. 

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5 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I could, but then it’s missing the connection with Forest Hills-71st Avenue with the (E)(F)(M)(R) Q60, Q23, and the LIRR in favor of having this route go straight down Yellowstone Blvd. So for now, I’ll just call it the Q64A. 

You can have it make that connection by using Austin Street (along with the Q23).

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6 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

You can have it make that connection by using Austin Street (along with the Q23).

Coming to think of it, that would provide a useful connection, thanks! You can check out the rest of my map if you’d like. 

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On 11/22/2018 at 8:35 PM, Orion6025 said:

Bunching forms whenever there is poor dispatching and/or poor traffic flow... Buses #9909 and #9926 are moving at normal pace down a road, 5 minutes apart with #9909 leading. A sudden traffic and a wheelchair passenger  slows down bus #9909 and within a span of 5 minutes, it's only moved forward a block. Within that time, #9926 has caught up to within 1-3 blocks of #9909, depending on how many cars got stuck behind #9909... Then as both buses proceed down the route, #9909 will get more and more behind schedule, leading more people than normal to board it at every single stop slowing it down further. Meanwhile #9926 won't be picking up more people because it's so close to #9909 and eventually #9926 will be riding #9909s ass all the way to the terminal... And if the dispatching is poor, both buses will continue to tail each other for the rest of the night...

There's not much you could do.  Given how much of 108 street is one lane per direction, especially up north, with some wiggle room for double parked cars (which is inevitable for 108 street), you can't put in a bus only lane without taking out parking, and there's no way in hell that they'd take parking off of 108

A variation on the old saying - a late train (or bus) only gets later.

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1 hour ago, lara8710 said:

Would like some feedback on this route I created, which operates between Flushing and Broadway Junction via Forest Hills: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1RtIKMyw0a0WjkrC5wJUbfL06KX1YphCg&ll=40.71850849025076%2C-73.87070879999999&z=12

 

I don't see much of a market for that on the southern end going to Broadway Junction, as I honestly can't see anyone from that area desiring to use Atlas Park Mall when Gateway Center Mall serves roughly the same purpose and has more big-box stores. Rather, I see Ridgewood Terminal as a more suitable western end, as Atlas Park Mall is better suited for the clientele in Glendale and Forest Hills, and I doubt that anyone would want to go so far down past Ridgewood to reach the subway when Myrtle/Wyckoff (L)(M) is ADA-compliant. I like that this introduces service along an express bus route section only with no local service (the southern part of Yellowstone Boulevard).

Now, as for the area along Austin Street, IMO, that should be made a one-way westbound street through the Forest Hills business district between Ascan Avenue and Yellowstone Boulevard (making Austin Street a continuous one-way westbound street from 77 Road to Yellowstone Boulevard).  This could be accommodated by a small signage change at 71 Road and Queens Boulevard, allowing a left turn through a current Do Not Enter zone for authorized (read: MTA) buses only, permitting a U turn across Queens Boulevard for this and the Q23 to reach 108 Street. (The Q60 stop for 71/Continental Jamaica-bound would be relocated to the near side of 71 Avenue.) Around Forest Hills (Q51 eastbound---I really prefer Q57 as this is a southerly Q58 route, Q23 northbound, a reroute would be as follows:

Via Yellowstone Boulevard, no right turn onto Austin. Instead, continue to Queens Boulevard eastbound service road, right turn onto Queens Boulevard eastbound service road, past 71 Avenue to 71 Road, U-turn at 71 Road to the westbound service road, right onto 108 Street, and northbound on 108. Traffic jams up way too much on that stretch of Austin Street between Ascan and Yellowstone.

A one-way routing pair would also introduce 71-Continental as a potential short-turn during the rush hours.

Edited by aemoreira81

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1 hour ago, lara8710 said:

Would like some feedback on this route I created, which operates between Flushing and Broadway Junction via Forest Hills: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1RtIKMyw0a0WjkrC5wJUbfL06KX1YphCg&ll=40.71850849025076%2C-73.87070879999999&z=12

 

I agree that there needs to be a link to Flushing from Forest Hills. I'd argue the demand is there. Ideally, this should be looked into in the Queens local bus redesign, but I'm not holding my breath. Some of the strain on routes in the area (Q23, Q44, Q58, Q64) can be taken off by having a one-seat ride. I'd say such a route could work fine on 108 Street. 

The portion between Forest Hills & ENY, OTOH, am not completely convinced by. There should be a local bus route on Yellowstone Boulevard, as most areas have nothing else besides the QM12 (which runs only during peak hours). Past Metropolitan and Woodhaven, you might get some ridership to Atlas Park Mall, but not a lot. Also, I don't see Cooper Avenue needing a bus, especially since the Q55 isn't too far away from it in Glendale. The B13 already links Glendale and ENY, and I'd say it does a better job connecting where people would want to go. 

In essence, I would probably the route run only Flushing and Forest Hills. The last stop would be Metropolitan Ave & Woodhaven Boulevard, and buses would turn around via 73 Avenue & Trotting Course Lane. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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31 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I agree that there needs to be a link to Flushing from Forest Hills. I'd argue the demand is there. Ideally, this should be looked into in the Queens local bus redesign, but I'm not holding my breath. Some of the strain on routes in the area (Q23, Q44, Q58, Q64) can be taken off by having a one-seat ride. I'd say such a route could work fine on 108 Street. 

The portion between Forest Hills & ENY, OTOH, am not completely convinced by. There should be a local bus route on Yellowstone Boulevard, as most areas have nothing else besides the QM12 (which runs only during peak hours). Past Metropolitan and Woodhaven, you might get some ridership to Atlas Park Mall, but not a lot. Also, I don't see Cooper Avenue needing a bus, especially since the Q55 isn't too far away from it in Glendale. The B13 already links Glendale and ENY, and I'd say it does a better job connecting where people would want to go. 

In essence, I would probably the route run only Flushing and Forest Hills. The last stop would be Metropolitan Ave & Woodhaven Boulevard, and buses would turn around via 73 Avenue & Trotting Course Lane. 

I'd still keep the Cooper Avenue portion of the route and reroute it towards the (L)(M) station in Bushwick/Ridgewood as there's no direct link between Atlas Park Mall and the Ridgewood Intermodal Terminal. The B13 may already serve a small portion of the street, but since it's already a circuitous route with so many turns, I'd straighten it along Cypress Hills Street between Cooper Avenue and Fresh Pond Road.

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36 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

I'd still keep the Cooper Avenue portion of the route and reroute it towards the (L)(M) station in Bushwick/Ridgewood as there's no direct link between Atlas Park Mall and the Ridgewood Intermodal Terminal. The B13 may already serve a small portion of the street, but since it's already a circuitous route with so many turns, I'd straighten it along Cypress Hills Street between Cooper Avenue and Fresh Pond Road.

There's really not enough demand for that. Atlas Park Mall gets relatively few traffic when compared to Queens Place, Queens Center, and Rego Center. Those who really need to do that trip have two options - take the Q54 to the Q58 or the Q29 to the Q55. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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25 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

There's really not enough demand for that. Atlas Park Mall gets relatively few traffic when compared to Queens Place, Queens Center, and Rego Center. Those who really need to do that trip have two options - take the Q54 to the Q58 or the Q29 to the Q55. 

If that's the case, it would be best to terminate the route at the current Q23 terminus at Crescent Apartments.

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On 11/26/2018 at 10:10 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

I never was a fan of the Q66 SBS proposal   that would go from Flushing to Columbus Circle of all places. Not only will traffic be a huge problem (since bus lanes aren’t enforced that well, and Manhattan is a pain driving through) but is there a demand for such a route? I think the Q66 is okay with how it is even though I would tweak its routing to access Queens Plaza more directly instead of having to serve Queensbridge.

The Q69 doesn’t need to serve Manhattan either. What I would do with the Q69 is have it follow the Q66 and Q100 routes when traveling back to 21st Street. I don’t think it needs to run via Court Square. That just adds unnecessary time to the route.

Also while not the ideal northern terminal for the Q69, I would not have it replace the Q19 as the Q19 can hold its own on Astoria. Plus you would have the Q69 do too much and that’s a problem that lots of routes throughout the system have. The Q19 while coming a long ways from the days of the PBL, it is still plagued by poor frequency of service and years of being taken as a joke. I always said that the MTA needs to increase service all together for that route. Make it run perhaps every 12-15 minutes most of the day during the weekdays. I would have it run every 20 mins for now on the weekends and I guarantee that people will start to trust that route more. Currently (especially on the weekends) if you miss the Q19 you are better off walking or trying to catch another route. It still ends way too early so you are out of luck after 9pm. I would have it run to at least 11pm-11:30pm to help improve connectivity to Flushing which is lacking at night. 

I could imagine there being demand; the Astoria Line is busier and busier by the day.

Not to mention, bus lanes over the QB would be helpful for the express buses as well.

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18 hours ago, lara8710 said:

Would like some feedback on this route I created, which (now) operates between Atlas Park Mall and Flushing via Forest Hills: 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1RtIKMyw0a0WjkrC5wJUbfL06KX1YphCg&ll=40.71850849025076%2C-73.87070879999999&z=12

16 hours ago, lara8710 said:

I'd still keep the Cooper Avenue portion of the route and reroute it towards the (L)(M) station in Bushwick/Ridgewood as there's no direct link between Atlas Park Mall and the Ridgewood Intermodal Terminal. The B13 may already serve a small portion of the street, but since it's already a circuitous route with so many turns, I'd straighten it along Cypress Hills Street between Cooper Avenue and Fresh Pond Road.

15 hours ago, lara8710 said:
16 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

There's really not enough demand for that. Atlas Park Mall gets relatively few traffic when compared to Queens Place, Queens Center, and Rego Center. Those who really need to do that trip have two options - take the Q54 to the Q58 or the Q29 to the Q55. 

If that's the case, it would be best to terminate the route at the current Q23 terminus at Crescent Apartments.

*shrugs*

This is more or less a diverted Q23..... Instead of running to the ForestView Crescent apts on one end & to the LGA Mariott Hotel in E. Elmhurst on the other end, this thing runs to Atlas Park mall & Flushing on those respective ends.... Also, I'd let the QM12 have Yellowstone to itself....

What are you ultimately trying to accomplish with this route of yours here? I mean honestly - this proposal went from that of a Brooklyn - Flushing route, to a Glendale - Flushing route.... This proposal went from trying to connect regions in 2 separate boroughs, to a route that would, at best, eliminate a transfer to those partaking in a decently utilized xfer scenario (of which still doesn't garner enough riders to warrant a whole new route)....

 

Edited by B35 via Church

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

What are you ultimately trying to accomplish with this route of yours here? I mean honestly - this proposal went from that of a Brooklyn - Flushing route, to a Glendale - Flushing route.... This proposal went from trying to connect regions in 2 separate boroughs, to a route that would, at best, eliminate a transfer to those partaking in a decently utilized xfer scenario (of which still doesn't garner enough riders to warrant a whole new route)....

A new bus route that could improve connectivity between neighborhoods that currently lack direct links by public transportation and could garner decent ridership.

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59 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

A new bus route that could improve connectivity between neighborhoods that currently lack direct links by public transportation and could garner decent ridership.

....that garners the approval of a given consensus on here, apparently.

You're all over the place with these ideas you've been posting on this forum..... No real specific aim whatsoever, just finding two points on a map that doesn't have direct service & hoping shit sticks to the 4 walls.....

Your ideas would be more plausible if you illustrated a better understanding of communal needs....

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14 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Your ideas would be more plausible if you illustrated a better understanding of communal needs....

How would you define "communal needs"?

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46 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

How would you define "communal needs"?

Assuming you know what the word communal means, it isn't about "defining" anything....

If you're looking for an instantaneous grab of knowledge for the sake of running off to go render some google map, then let's not waste each other's time...

Otherwise, I mean, I don't see what's so difficult to understand here... If you're really inquisitive enough about this stuff, pay attention to people's complaints on social media, blog comment sections, any transit related or specific community based/related forum you happen to stumble across - No matter how silly you may deem any gripe to be.... Read local (as in, neighborhood centric) newspapers.... Pay attention to the on-goings of community boards (if you happen to know people that attend such meetings [like I do], pick their brain a little and do some inquiring)..... Actually venture out to these communities (or neighborhoods, if that tickles your fancy).... Ride and/or notice people's ridership habits on/off buses/trains/RR's.... Eavesdrop on people's (transit related) conversations whilst on some mode of transit..... There's legwork that has to be done at some minimal level & coming on here snidely asking how I'd define communal needs tells me your interest level isn't quite there....

The one thing I can say about this forum is that discussions have evolved on here.... Unlike the MTA, we actually give a shit about the people that utilize their services to get around this city - and that starts with listening with open ears.....

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