Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[engineerboy6561]

3 hours ago, lara8710 said:

How about a Bx50 between Fordham Plaza and Flushing via LGA?

Fordham Plaza to LGA via 3 Av could work pretty well, but it would be a long route on par with the Q44; you could do it if you basically eliminated parking on 3rd and Willis Aves to put in SBS lanes; the routing on the Bronx end would wind up being Triboro-135 St-Willis Av northbound, then Willis Av-135 St-Bruckner Bl-Brook Av-134 St-Triboro southbound. Basically, if you look at the scheduling the Bx15 LTD seems to consistently take 29-37 minutes from the Hub to Fordham Plaza, then from the Hub to 31 St/Astoria Blvd ranges from 10-30 minutes depending on traffic, and then the M60SBS takes about 30-35 minutes to go from 31 St to LGA as things stand now. If you believe the MTA's numbers that SBS tends to shave about 10-15% off total travel time then you could probably get the Bronx portion down to 25-30 minutes; I'm not sure if anything could be done about the Triboro portion except to live with it, and then you have 30-35 minutes on the other end of the bridge, so you'd be looking at about a 90-100 minute runtime that drops down to 65-70 minutes at night. Assuming you run buses continuously through LGA you're looking at 180-200 minute runtimes, which means you'll need 20-24 buses to maintain even ten-minute headways during the day. It's doable but would be an investment to get reliability up to par.

If you add in Flushing to that then you add in all the congestion you see there, and you'd be adding another 10-15 minutes of runtime each way (which may not sound like much, but it's now pushing the runtime up to 100-110 minutes each way, with four major congestion chokepoints (Flushing, the Hub, the Triboro, and the airport itself). Honestly, 90-100 minute runtimes with three chokepoints is about what the Q44 does, give or take, but pushing the peak round-trip times up from 180-200mins to 200-220mins would make things even more unreliable. Hell, even doing LGA-Fordham it might be worth splitting the route between CS and WF with spare buses ready to go at either end, so that you could manage deadheads and have buses set aside to plug schedule gaps if traffic is bad.

Edited March 1, 2019 by engineerboy6561

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, lara8710 said:

How about a Bx50 between Fordham Plaza and Flushing via LGA?

Ridiculous.

[JFK Depot]

I’m noticing ALOT of northern and western Queens on here with little to NO noise on Southern Queens.... like the Jamaica area doesn’t need streamlining 

[Armandito]

2 hours ago, JFK Depot said:

I’m noticing ALOT of northern and western Queens on here with little to NO noise on Southern Queens.... like the Jamaica area doesn’t need streamlining 

That reminds me, in the past I once suggested extending the Q77 to JFK Airport and a lot of members were strongly opposed to my plan.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

6 hours ago, lara8710 said:

That reminds me, in the past I once suggested extending the Q77 to JFK Airport and a lot of members were strongly opposed to my plan.

Yes because that doesn't do anything to improve travel times for anyone. The Q3 is enough for those going to JFK and not originating from Jamaica.

SE Queens does need some revisions, but not just adding service for the he'll of it. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

20 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

The Bx50 exists according to the MTA's new neighborhood maps..........

https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2018-04/Buhre Av (6) web.pdf

 

 

It might be an old publishing industry gimmick known as the "copyright error" — i.e. a deliberate error whose purpose is to protect the copyright. (It's easier to prove that someone copied your work if they also copied the errors.)

[Union Tpke]

13 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

It might be an old publishing industry gimmick known as the "copyright error" — i.e. a deliberate error whose purpose is to protect the copyright. (It's easier to prove that someone copied your work if they also copied the errors.)

I don't think that they would do these tricks on this kind of map.

[JFK Depot]

On 3/1/2019 at 10:18 AM, lara8710 said:

That reminds me, in the past I once suggested extending the Q77 to JFK Airport and a lot of members were strongly opposed to my plan.

If the 77 was extended it would make sense just to extend it to 147th Ave so it could have connections with the Q111 and Q114... sending it into the airport makes no sense at all being that it rides Springfield Blvd so somewhere along its route your plan would have it coming off Springfield Blvd.. I’m gonna assume at the Conduit.. then it makes another turn on to Farmers just to follow the Q3.... think about that whole routing for a second.. it makes no sense but I’ll give you a different idea.... I would extend the Q111 to Green Acres... via 147th Ave... all the bus would do is make the left on to Francis Lewis... Right on the Conduit... Follow Q5/Q85 into mall... leaving the mall... Follow Q5/Q85 out of Mall... Left on Francis Lewis... Right on 147th Ave... proceed with normal route 

[Armandito]

16 minutes ago, JFK Depot said:

If the 77 was extended it would make sense just to extend it to 147th Ave so it could have connections with the Q111 and Q114... sending it into the airport makes no sense at all being that it rides Springfield Blvd so somewhere along its route your plan would have it coming off Springfield Blvd.. I’m gonna assume at the Conduit.. then it makes another turn on to Farmers just to follow the Q3.... think about that whole routing for a second.. it makes no sense but I’ll give you a different idea.... I would extend the Q111 to Green Acres... via 147th Ave... all the bus would do is make the left on to Francis Lewis... Right on the Conduit... Follow Q5/Q85 into mall... leaving the mall... Follow Q5/Q85 out of Mall... Left on Francis Lewis... Right on 147th Ave... proceed with normal route 

When I had that plan in mind, I proposed extending it south along Springfield Boulevard toward 147th Avenue before veering westward toward the Q3 route into the airport.

[Fredrick Wells 2]

Q77 does not need to go into JFK Airport at all. Just extend to 147th Avenue and increase the Hours of Operation to where it runs between 5 AM and 1 AM Daily (7 Days a Week).

What about the Q27 extension though? I propose it goes to Rosedale via Francis Lewis Blvd - which would be a better idea than extending the Q111 to Green Acres Mall. Also the Q27 needs such an extension since there's SBS considerations for that route.

And lets talk Subway line extensions. You know if the was extended to Queens Village (and the was extended to Queens Village/Glen Oaks [my proposal]), the Q3 and Q17 routes would consolidate into a Q3 Flushing to JFK line and the Q76 and Q77 routes would consolidate into a Q76 College Point to Springfield Gardens line both eliminating service to Downtown Jamaica. A Southeast Queens Subway line would restructure the Q4, Q7 and Q84 routes as new Crosstown links along with a new Foch Blvd line created. I doubt the would extend to Laurelton because LIRR patrons want their fast trip to Midtown (in 35 minutes) and Laurelton/Rosedale/Springfield Gardens residents would NIMBY such a proposal (perhaps in favor of the to Rosedale extended from Lefferts Blvd via Rockaway Blvd and the Belt Parkway and the to Rosedale via Merrick Blvd) leaving the extension (as it is built that way) as a Guy R. Brewer Blvd Subway line (to terminate at 137th Avenue, and allowing a transfer to the via the South exit from 144th Avenue to the Conduit at the Guy R. Brewer Blvd - Farmers Blvd Station). I think the extension of the is much more preferred than the Q5 SBS (since it will mirror the B82 SBS as a Weekday Only service), while along Guy R. Brewer Blvd, only the Q113 and Q114 routes will receive SBS treatments as those lines are Jamaica to Far Rockaway.

[LGA Link N Train]

I have another proposal which is one that I’ve been holding on to for a while. A few pages ago, someone requested that as part of my Redesign Project, I’d add a Queens Center-Flushing Route. I thought of one, and branded it as the Q75. 

This Q75 route will be on Par with the Q88 route until it reaches College Point Blvd. From there, it will be on Par with (or take over the northern portion of) the Current Q58 route unti it’s Terminal by Main Street.  The Q75 will make many of the same stops as the Q58 and Q88. 

The Q75 will run at 7 Minute Headway’s during Peak Hours and Off-Peak Hours. This applies to all days of the Week. Overnights, buses will run at 15-20 minute Headway’s. 

I believe this route would benefit many people since this “Q75” would connect two major Transfer Points together. 

Any thoughts?

 

[Bay Ridge Express]

5 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I have another proposal which is one that I’ve been holding on to for a while. A few pages ago, someone requested that as part of my Redesign Project, I’d add a Queens Center-Flushing Route. I thought of one, and branded it as the Q75. 

This Q75 route will be on Par with the Q88 route until it reaches College Point Blvd. From there, it will be on Par with (or take over the northern portion of) the Current Q58 route unti it’s Terminal by Main Street.  The Q75 will make many of the same stops as the Q58 and Q88. 

The Q75 will run at 7 Minute Headway’s during Peak Hours and Off-Peak Hours. This applies to all days of the Week. Overnights, buses will run at 15-20 minute Headway’s. 

I believe this route would benefit many people since this “Q75” would connect two major Transfer Points together. 

Any thoughts?

 

It does seem to have a parallel to a lot of the Q58 already, but given that the Q58 doesn't directly go to Queens Center, it might work. The route itself though, would be a bit short. Perhaps it could be used to get rid of some part of the Q38 loop or whatnot.

[Armandito]

22 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

It does seem to have a parallel to a lot of the Q58 already, but given that the Q58 doesn't directly go to Queens Center, it might work. The route itself though, would be a bit short. Perhaps it could be used to get rid of some part of the Q38 loop or whatnot.

Yes, indeed. The Q38 has such a circuitous routing that it can't be considered a reliable bus to take. So it's best if you split it back into two separate routes, with one segment being the Q75 proposed by BRE.

[Bay Ridge Express]

1 hour ago, lara8710 said:

Yes, indeed. The Q38 has such a circuitous routing that it can't be considered a reliable bus to take. So it's best if you split it back into two separate routes, with one segment being the Q75 proposed by BRE.

I didn't propose it, @LaGuardia Link N Tra did (unless you specifically mean the replacement segment I was talking about)

Edited March 6, 2019 by Bay Ridge Express

[Armandito]

8 minutes ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

I didn't propose it, @LaGuardia Link N Tra did (unless you specifically mean the replacement segment I was talking about)

That's what I meant--your replacement segment.

[LGA Link N Train]

Since I scrapped my Queens Bus Redesign map, I decided to write whatever ideas I have on a document. This time, I got help from a Friend of mine. So not all proposals are mine. (Particularly the ones listed after “Q110”)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bgZvRvkYdMhcMTbtcePbyqwYp9KfRrMgsB-McrdfdM 

I’m  open to feedback

Edited March 10, 2019 by LaGuardia Link N Tra

[Eric B]

Quote

Q38 - The Q38 from 63rd Drive to Metropolitan Avenue Station on the M line have a good ridership level. Once the Q38 passes Metropolitan Avenue on the M, buses tend to be empty. As a result, the Q38 should be split into separate routes to keep ridership numbers high. The Eliot Avenue Portion of the Q38 route will be taken over by a new bus route.

The Q58 Limited shall be converted into an SBS route. As part of the conversion, this Q58+ will be rerouted onto Different Streets in order to make this Service Fast and Reliable. Q58+ Service will Slightly Differ in Comparison to Q58 Local Service.

So Eliot would be the best choice for a Q58 alternate! (And then, continue on the Horace Harding service road to the turnoff to Flushing. I'm sure the long, winding Grand and Corona route would render any SBS useless; and not even sure how LTD does, as I'll hard;y even use it).

Edited March 10, 2019 by Eric B

[B35 via Church]

Stopped reading that document after y'all started talking about implementing bus lanes for the Q22 to reduce bunching.....

[LGA Link N Train]

48 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Stopped reading that document after y'all started talking about implementing bus lanes for the Q22 to reduce bunching.....

Yikes. I see your point when you say that, being that it’s the Rockaways, specifically the majority of the Q22 that we’re talking about.  I was almost falling asleep when I wrote that. So that error is fixed. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Was thinking about restructuring the Q38. I guess most of us can agree that a split is needed.

I was thinking of having the Q38 (northern split) run from Flushing to Ridgewood : LINK

General Route Description

Essentially, what the northern split does, is run from Ridgewood Terminal, via Gates, via Forest, via Eliot to Queens Center Mall. From there, the route will run along 57th Avenue, to 99 Street, but then continue north on 99 Street & National Street, to Corona Plaza, and then to Flushing (via Roosevelt Avenue). There is a bit of a gap in that general area, since while the Q72 and the Q23 exist, they generally only go North-South, and there's no East-West Link to certain parts of Corona and Flushing. The Q58 just takes too long to get to Flushing, and a new route avoiding the expressway and traffic surrounding it should be considered. It's actually pretty inconvenient as it is to get to specific parts of Elmhurst and Corona (even with the current Q58). 

One thing I do want to point out: riders taking the Q38 to the  in Ridgewood would need to use the Seneca Avenue station instead of the Metropoltian Avenue station. Although it seems like it takes longer to get to the station (it would be about a minute or two longer), it will actually be beneficial, because most of the times the Q38 arrives at Metropolitan Avenue, the  is already leaving, and then the wait is another 8-12 minutes.  There's a better chance of catching the train 5-6 minutes down the line. Also, there's a transfer to the  (no more needing to travel to Grand Avenue for the Q58/Q59 or having to do the Q38 >  >  combo. 

One thing I didn't think of (but realized after) is that during baseball season, the route could prove to be popular among those who take public transit in the Middle Village and Ridgewood areas, to Citifield. IDK much about the distribution of Mets fans in Corona, but I know that there are a good chunk of Mets fans in Middle Village. It's direct and it'll take just about the same time, if not faster, than taking a local bus up to the  .

Alternative Alignment in Corona

I am a bit divided in which routing the Q38 would take in Corona. The main alignment goes via Corona Plaza, and does improve connectivity without having solely north-south services in that general area, but the area along 108 Street is also busy, and there are a few areas a little distant from a bus there too. The alternative proposal follows the Q38's current route in LeFrak City and Corona until 99 Street and Lewis Avenue. EB buses head down to Martense Avenue, and take Martense up to 108 Street, then go up 108 Street to Roosevelt Avenue. WB buses take Lewis/53rd Avenues instead of Martense. This routing would not serve Corona Plaza.

 

IDK yet what I'm doing with the southern split of the Q38. The other stuff on there you can ignore for now, it's not done yet. Thoughts?

Edited March 16, 2019 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Was thinking about restructuring the Q38. I guess most of us can agree that a split is needed.

I was thinking of having the Q38 (northern split) run from Flushing to Ridgewood : LINK

General Route Description

Essentially, what the northern split does, is run from Ridgewood Terminal, via Gates, via Forest, via Eliot to Queens Center Mall. From there, the route will run along 57th Avenue, to 99 Street, but then continue north on 99 Street & National Street, to Corona Plaza, and then to Flushing (via Roosevelt Avenue). There is a bit of a gap in that general area, since while the Q72 and the Q23 exist, they generally only go North-South, and there's no East-West Link to certain parts of Corona and Flushing. The Q58 just takes too long to get to Flushing, and a new route avoiding the expressway and traffic surrounding it should be considered. It's actually pretty inconvenient as it is to get to specific parts of Elmhurst and Corona (even with the current Q58). 

One thing I do want to point out: riders taking the Q38 to the  in Ridgewood would need to use the Seneca Avenue station instead of the Metropoltian Avenue station. Although it seems like it takes longer to get to the station (it would be about a minute or two longer), it will actually be beneficial, because most of the times the Q38 arrives at Metropolitan Avenue, the  is already leaving, and then the wait is another 8-12 minutes.  There's a better chance of catching the train 5-6 minutes down the line. Also, there's a transfer to the  (no more needing to travel to Grand Avenue for the Q58/Q59 or having to do the Q38 >  >  combo. 

One thing I didn't think of (but realized after) is that during baseball season, the route could prove to be popular among those who take public transit in the Middle Village and Ridgewood areas, to Citifield. IDK much about the distribution of Mets fans in Corona, but I know that there are a good chunk of Mets fans in Middle Village. It's direct and it'll take just about the same time, if not faster, than taking a local bus up to the  .

I'm looking at a rather old map of my Q38 split & your map here... There are only two main differences (I'll point out mine)

1. I have the route ending with the Q39 on the southern end....
2. Along National, I have the route then going 43rd av > 108th st > Roosevelt, en route to Flushing

I didn't have buses running to Ridgewood Terminal b/c I didn't want to exacerbate matters w/ all the other routes ending there (there's enough shuffling of routes around to try to maximize space as there is - and apparently, it's STILL going on over there.... Everytime you look, it's some minor routing change to some route over there)....

As for the other bullet point/difference, I wanted to serve more actual residences with the northward extension to Flushing with the route..... Routing a bus via Corona Plaza, along Roosevelt, to Flushing, I'd want no part of....

7 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Alternative Alignment in Corona

I am a bit divided in which routing the Q38 would take in Corona. The main alignment goes via Corona Plaza, and does improve connectivity without having solely north-south services in that general area, but the area along 108 Street is also busy, and there are a few areas a little distant from a bus there too. The alternative proposal follows the Q38's current route in LeFrak City and Corona until 99 Street and Lewis Avenue. EB buses head down to Martense Avenue, and take Martense up to 108 Street, then go up 108 Street to Roosevelt Avenue. WB buses take Lewis/53rd Avenues instead of Martense. This routing would not serve Corona Plaza.

I wouldn't want buses going via Corona Plaza, nor would I route a bus on any of those side streets b/w Corona av & HHE, to get b/w 99th & 108th.....

To sum it up, I like the thought process behind your alternate routing (compared to that of routing buses through Corona Plaza), but the street grid doesn't feasibly allow for it (which isn't your fault).....

Edited March 16, 2019 by B35 via Church
apparently a closed parenthese randomly added an emoji to the post *shrugs*

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm looking at a rather old map of my Q38 split & your map here... There are only two main differences (I'll point out mine)

1. I have the route ending with the Q39 on the southern end....
2. Along National, I have the route then going 43rd av > 108th st > Roosevelt, en route to Flushing

I didn't have buses running to Ridgewood Terminal b/c I didn't want to exacerbate matters w/ all the other routes ending there (there's enough shuffling of routes around to try to maximize space as there is - and apparently, it's STILL going on over there.... Everytime you look, it's some minor routing change to some route over there)....

As for the other bullet point/difference, I wanted to serve more actual residences with the northward extension to Flushing with the route..... Routing a bus via Corona Plaza, along Roosevelt, to Flushing, I'd want no part of....

I wouldn't want buses going via Corona Plaza, nor would I route a bus on any of those side streets b/w Corona av & HHE, to get b/w 99th & 108th.....

To sum it up, I like the thought process behind your alternate routing (compared to that of routing buses through Corona Plaza), but the street grid doesn't feasibly allow for it (which isn't your fault).....

I figured that the amount of buses would be a problem at Ridgewood. One reason I sent it over there is for ADA access. With the northern split no longer serving Metropolitan Avenue, disabled riders wouldn't be able to connect to a train at Seneca Avenue. Myrtle-Wyckoff is wheelchair accessible though. Of course this wouldn't be an issue if the stations were already ADA accessible, but that's for another discussion.

The only other thing I could think about, which would maintain ADA accessibility, and not clog up space in Ridgewood is to route buses via Wyckoff to Wyckoff Heights Hospital. I don't remember the B13 frequencies off the top of my head, but for the most part, it isn't very frequently IIRC.

 

As for the comment regarding the alternative routing, fair point.

[shiznit1987]

On 3/4/2019 at 2:40 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I have another proposal which is one that I’ve been holding on to for a while. A few pages ago, someone requested that as part of my Redesign Project, I’d add a Queens Center-Flushing Route. I thought of one, and branded it as the Q75. 

This Q75 route will be on Par with the Q88 route until it reaches College Point Blvd. From there, it will be on Par with (or take over the northern portion of) the Current Q58 route unti it’s Terminal by Main Street.  The Q75 will make many of the same stops as the Q58 and Q88. 

The Q75 will run at 7 Minute Headway’s during Peak Hours and Off-Peak Hours. This applies to all days of the Week. Overnights, buses will run at 15-20 minute Headway’s. 

I believe this route would benefit many people since this “Q75” would connect two major Transfer Points together. 

Any thoughts?

 

Why not just extend the Q59?

[LGA Link N Train]

39 minutes ago, shiznit1987 said:

Why not just extend the Q59?

The Q59 has no Business in Flushing in my Opinion. Also, it would end up duplicating the Q58 (with the Exceptions of Corona Avenue and Williamsburg) 

[B35 via Church]

On 3/4/2019 at 2:40 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I have another proposal which is one that I’ve been holding on to for a while. A few pages ago, someone requested that as part of my Redesign Project, I’d add a Queens Center-Flushing Route. I thought of one, and branded it as the Q75. 

This Q75 route will be on Par with the Q88 route until it reaches College Point Blvd. From there, it will be on Par with (or take over the northern portion of) the Current Q58 route unti it’s Terminal by Main Street.  The Q75 will make many of the same stops as the Q58 and Q88. 

The Q75 will run at 7 Minute Headway’s during Peak Hours and Off-Peak Hours. This applies to all days of the Week. Overnights, buses will run at 15-20 minute Headway’s. 

I believe this route would benefit many people since this “Q75” would connect two major Transfer Points together. 

Any thoughts?

Simply put, I don't think a new route for this specific purpose (especially the way you have it routed) is necessary...

Just divert the Q58/LTD off Corona av. & have it run via QB & HHE to Flushing instead.... Then have the Q59 serve Corona av. in its place, end it (elsewhere) in Rego Park somewhere, and call it a day.....

7 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

The Q59 has no Business in Flushing in my Opinion. Also, it would end up duplicating the Q58 (with the Exceptions of Corona Avenue and Williamsburg) 

I'm inclined to agree....

But at the same time, another route doesn't need to be terminating with the Q58 in (or anywhere else in the heart of) Flushing either - especially at an every 7 min. clip all day, save for overnight hours....