Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Lex]

14 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I don't think a dedicated bus terminal would work. Where would you put it?

The two most commonly suggested sites are somewhere in what the city likes to call "Flushing West" or where the old muni garage is. Both sites have major issues, starting with the fact that most buses in Flushing are coming from the south and east. If the buses are coming from the south and east, routing them to a bus terminal north of the LIRR will lead to the same problem as today; that Main St is really the only continuous road from the south to the north. 

Unless the space between the two stations is one of the places you mentioned, it would seem the implication went way over your head.

[bobtehpanda]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

Unless the space between the two stations is one of the places you mentioned, it would seem the implication went way over your head.

Closing Main St to cars is beyond idiotic. The next continuous road to the east from the LIE to Northern Blvd is 1.5 miles away. Running a new road between the two would be a ridiculous amount of money in eminent domain alone, and would also probably end up killing the neighborhood.

[Lex]

24 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Closing Main St to cars is beyond idiotic. The next continuous road to the east from the LIE to Northern Blvd is 1.5 miles away. Running a new road between the two would be a ridiculous amount of money in eminent domain alone, and would also probably end up killing the neighborhood.

I never said I would close Main Street for this.

[Union Tpke]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Closing Main St to cars is beyond idiotic. The next continuous road to the east from the LIE to Northern Blvd is 1.5 miles away. Running a new road between the two would be a ridiculous amount of money in eminent domain alone, and would also probably end up killing the neighborhood.

Have them run via College Point Boulevard.

[bobtehpanda]

6 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Have them run via College Point Boulevard.

College Point Blvd is not a short walk, and the pedestrian environment is atrocious. Moving all the buses to College Point is a great way to completely kill bus ridership.

It's also worth noting that there are no streets between Booth Memorial and Roosevelt that run east-west continuously from Kissena to College Point, so you'd have to force buses to miss a whole lot of density on Kissena to serve a literal industrial wasteland.

[Union Tpke]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

College Point Blvd is not a short walk, and the pedestrian environment is atrocious. Moving all the buses to College Point is a great way to completely kill bus ridership.

It's also worth noting that there are no streets between Booth Memorial and Roosevelt that run east-west continuously from Kissena to College Point, so you'd have to force buses to miss a whole lot of density on Kissena to serve a literal industrial wasteland.

No. Move car traffic there and make Main Street between Northern Boulevard and Kissena Boulevard a transitway.

[bobtehpanda]

1 minute ago, Union Tpke said:

No. Move car traffic there and make Main Street between Northern Boulevard and Kissena Boulevard a transitway.

North-south continuous roads between Northern and the LIE being a whole 2 miles apart (College Point to 162 St) is beyond stupidity. The community would never agree to it.

[Union Tpke]

Just now, bobtehpanda said:

North-south continuous roads between Northern and the LIE being a whole 2 miles apart (College Point to 162 St) is beyond stupidity. The community would never agree to it.

A vast majority of the users of Main Street are bus riders. Some things have to be rammed through communities, and this is one of them. This would save substantial amounts of time.

[Union Tpke]

4 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

A vast majority of the users of Main Street are bus riders. Some things have to be rammed through communities, and this is one of them. This would save substantial amounts of time.

@P3F You find the only rational suggestion to improve the commutes of bus riders to Flushing and through Flushing funny. I guess you like slow bus rides and long commutes.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

20 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

A vast majority of the users of Main Street are bus riders. Some things have to be rammed through communities, and this is one of them. This would save substantial amounts of time.

The problem with this is that while it would solve issues along the main corridors, side streets would see an increase in traffic which may be more than they can handle. For those going on Northern Boulevard westbound, they would need to turn somewhere in the core of Flushing before Roosevelt Avenue, and that alone would cause gridlock. 

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

A vast majority of the users of Main Street are bus riders. Some things have to be rammed through communities, and this is one of them. This would save substantial amounts of time.

You are aware that people can own cars and ride the bus too, right? Most people in Eastern Queens own cars.

This would pose so many problems with, for example, deliveries that it is not even worth contemplating. You would kill the community and transit ridership with it.

Also, BM5 has a point. The spillover congestion would probably be worse than the current congestion on Main St itself.

Edited April 1, 2019 by bobtehpanda

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

You are aware that people can own cars and ride the bus too, right? Most people in Eastern Queens own cars.

This would pose so many problems with, for example, deliveries that it is not even worth contemplating. You would kill the community and transit ridership with it.

Also, BM5 has a point. The spillover congestion would probably be worse than the current congestion on Main St itself.

How would this kill transit ridership? You can ban on-street parking in the vicinity of Flushing. Have cars park in parking garages. Use the space for deliveries and for traffic lanes.

Do you think that widening the sidewalk on Main Street killed the community? Didn't it lead to more congestion?

Cars could turn onto Sanford.

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

How would this kill transit ridership? You can ban on-street parking in the vicinity of Flushing. Have cars park in parking garages. Use the space for deliveries and for traffic lanes.

Do you think that widening the sidewalk on Main Street killed the community? Didn't it lead to more congestion?

Cars could turn onto Sanford.

Where would you put a parking garage? They all got redeveloped. All the land in Flushing is valuable. And how would they get to the parking garage? In the car they can no longer drive down Main St?

Widening the sidewalk did not lead to more congestion, nor did it kill the community, because so many people were walking in the street that one of the lanes wasn't usable anyways.

The backup of cars left-turning onto Sanford would probably cause so much congestion on both Kissena and Main that they would block buses going onto the transit mall.

It will kill ridership because a fair amount of transit riders are going to Flushing for the retail, or they stop at the retail on the way home from work. Killing the community is a great way to reduce foot traffic, make the neighborhood feel unsafe, and reduce bus ridership. The Fulton Mall area isn't exactly doing too hot.

Edited April 2, 2019 by bobtehpanda

[P3F]

9 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

@P3F You find the only rational suggestion to improve the commutes of bus riders to Flushing and through Flushing funny. I guess you like slow bus rides and long commutes.

What I thought funny was this part:

"Some things have to be rammed through communities, and this is one of them."

Yes, let's ram through a narrow-minded plan that fails to consider areas immediately outside the proposed construction corridor. Logistics and community opinion begone; it needs to be rammed through the community. Wow, who is this community, they are so rude for not wanting something that could potentially impact them negatively. It's almost like they live there or something.

I am all for improving bus speeds, and suggesting that opposition to a single flawed proposal somehow nullifies that is simply ridiculous. Have you ever noticed that MTA EIS documents have multiple "alternative" scenarios listed along with their projected impacts?

[Union Tpke]

8 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Where would you put a parking garage? They all got redeveloped. All the land in Flushing is valuable. And how would they get to the parking garage? In the car they can no longer drive down Main St?

Widening the sidewalk did not lead to more congestion, nor did it kill the community, because so many people were walking in the street that one of the lanes wasn't usable anyways.

The backup of cars left-turning onto Sanford would probably cause so much congestion on both Kissena and Main that they would block buses going onto the transit mall.

It will kill ridership because a fair amount of transit riders are going to Flushing for the retail, or they stop at the retail on the way home from work. Killing the community is a great way to reduce foot traffic, make the neighborhood feel unsafe, and reduce bus ridership. The Fulton Mall area isn't exactly doing too hot.

I was being sarcastic concerning widening the sidewalk.

Screen Shot 2019-04-01 at 6.19.16 PM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

5 hours ago, P3F said:

What I thought funny was this part:

"Some things have to be rammed through communities, and this is one of them."

Yes, let's ram through a narrow-minded plan that fails to consider areas immediately outside the proposed construction corridor. Logistics and community opinion begone; it needs to be rammed through the community. Wow, who is this community, they are so rude for not wanting something that could potentially impact them negatively. It's almost like they live there or something.

I am all for improving bus speeds, and suggesting that opposition to a single flawed proposal somehow nullifies that is simply ridiculous. Have you ever noticed that MTA EIS documents have multiple "alternative" scenarios listed along with their projected impacts?

What are your alternatives?

[Lil 57]

I'm Thinking that the Rockaways should have full-time Express Bus Service. The and  trains run terribly down there and they deserve better transit service. My proposal is to make a QM15C bus. The QM15C would be an off-peak variant of the QM15 that is extended to the Rockaways off-peak. The route would run 7-days a week and would run every 30 minutes most of the day with buses alternating between Neponsit and Far Rockaway. Also during summer weekends, special QM16 service would also run to Neponsit every 10-30 minutes to provide Rockaway Beachgoers with frequent and quicker service to the Rockaways.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Lil 57

[Gotham Bus Co.]

22 hours ago, Fredrick Wells 3 said:

It's no different from the  at Lefferts Blvd. Just relocate the Handicapped Access Elevators (at the Lefferts Blvd) and the Extension is possible.

For the  you really do not need the Escalators at the East Entrance/Exit. Just with the  the Middle Track should end at Main Street for the "short-run" trains and it should be only 2 tracks East of Main Street (as you do not need high frequency of service East of Main Street).

 

Why don't we need escalators? Not everybody can climb 78 steps (yes, I counted them).

 

And where would you put the elevators? (If you get rid of the one elevator, you would need to build a mezzanine and thus have three elevators.)

[LGA Link N Train]

From what I understand, there are no good alternatives to De-congest Flushing? 

This Might be cheating, but why not extend the , Do some Atlantic Ticket Type thing on the LIRR Port Washington Branch in addition to TOD, reroute a few buses and call it a day?

I'll come back with a more detailed response later.

[B35 via Church]

15 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

.....The Fulton Mall area isn't exactly doing too hot.

Yeah, and you can thank the MetroTech project for that.....

Fulton Mall strip being less patronized than it used to be, has nothing to do with anything transit related.

[Lex]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, and you can thank the MetroTech project for that.....

Fulton Mall strip being less patronized than it used to be, has nothing to do with anything transit related.

Not to mention that Fulton Street's width over there would make mixed traffic more of a nightmare than further east on the same street...

[bobtehpanda]

14 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

From what I understand, there are no good alternatives to De-congest Flushing? 

This Might be cheating, but why not extend the , Do some Atlantic Ticket Type thing on the LIRR Port Washington Branch in addition to TOD, reroute a few buses and call it a day?

I'll come back with a more detailed response later.

People want the  because it has better transfers. The PW also has awkward station locations for bus-train connections (looking at you, Auburndale)

[Armandito]

 

On 4/2/2019 at 11:36 PM, bobtehpanda said:

From what I understand, there are no good alternatives to De-congest Flushing? 

This Might be cheating, but why not extend the , Do some Atlantic Ticket Type thing on the LIRR Port Washington Branch in addition to TOD, reroute a few buses and call it a day?

I'll come back with a more detailed response later.

I suspect greedy, entitled Long Island commuters play a role in deliberately wanting to keep LIRR fares within the city expensive to discourage Big Apple straphangers from riding LIRR trains beside them 🙄

Perhaps they fear NYC commuters will cause (more) overcrowding on trains and worsen delays?

You bet that could be one reason why there hasn't been a LIRR station in Elmhurst since its predecessor closed in 1985...

Edited April 5, 2019 by lara8710

[bobtehpanda]

49 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

 

I suspect greedy, entitled Long Island commuters play a role in deliberately wanting to keep LIRR fares within the city expensive to discourage Big Apple straphangers from riding LIRR trains beside them 🙄

Perhaps they fear NYC commuters will cause (more) overcrowding on trains and worsen delays?

You bet that could be one reason why there hasn't been a LIRR station in Elmhurst since its predecessor closed in 1985...

I have no idea why this quoted me, but there was funding for an Elmhurst station to be built, that then got pulled for shoving financial resources towards Third Track.

Third Track and East Side Access are basically sucking up all the oxygen out of the LIRR Capital Budget and then some.

[LGA Link N Train]

I have a few updates to my Queens Bus Redesign Document (and Map) :

Q7: Cut From Euclid Avenue to Rockaway Blvd. This Portion is replaced by a Brooklyn Route. Buses are rerouted and Extended via Baisley Blvd and Bedell Street. Under TOD, I'd have the Q7 Terminate at Locust Manor Station, but instead I have them Terminating at Springfield Blvd and 145th Road. 

Q18: All buses rerouted via 69th Street. A new route takes the 65th Place portion of the Q18 route.

Q24: Receives a Limited Service, but is Cut to Broadway Junction. The Same Route that replaced the Brooklyn Portion of the Q7 can also run via Broadway if warranted. 

Q62: A new Queens Route that I came up with. Replaces the Greenpoint Avenue Portion of the B24 and continues to Run on Roosevelt Avenue until Woodside Avenue. From Woodside Avenue, the Q62 runs with the Q18 until 65th Place. It will have the same Terminal as the Q18. 

 https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bgZvRvkYdMhcMTbtcePbyqwYp9KfRrMgsB-McrdfdM/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TFLioK_1NnV15T-J0gOIR7WFRvp2GKz3&usp=sharing

 

[B35 via Church]

8 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I have a few updates to my Queens Bus Redesign Document (and Map) :

Q7: Cut From Euclid Avenue to Rockaway Blvd. This Portion is replaced by a Brooklyn Route. Buses are rerouted and Extended via Baisley Blvd and Bedell Street. Under TOD, I'd have the Q7 Terminate at Locust Manor Station, but instead I have them Terminating at Springfield Blvd and 145th Road. 

Q18: All buses rerouted via 69th Street. A new route takes the 65th Place portion of the Q18 route.

Q24: Receives a Limited Service, but is Cut to Broadway Junction. The Same Route that replaced the Brooklyn Portion of the Q7 can also run via Broadway if warranted. 

Q62: A new Queens Route that I came up with. Replaces the Greenpoint Avenue Portion of the B24 and continues to Run on Roosevelt Avenue until Woodside Avenue. From Woodside Avenue, the Q62 runs with the Q18 until 65th Place. It will have the same Terminal as the Q18. 

 https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bgZvRvkYdMhcMTbtcePbyqwYp9KfRrMgsB-McrdfdM/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TFLioK_1NnV15T-J0gOIR7WFRvp2GKz3&usp=sharing

Q7: Agree with a western truncation, as usage west of Cross Bay is sorely lacking.... There's simply a greater demand for the Q8 over there at Pitkin .... To maintain coverage on Sutter towards Pitkin subway from Cross Bay ↔ Rockaway Blvd , I'd use the B14 for that... Vast majority of folks coming from points west on the B14 tend to ride no further than Crescent.... 

As for the other end of the route, at this point, I'd stop it right dead at 133rd.... Although I abhorred that old Q7 to Green Acres idea that floated around the older transit forums back in the fay, I never cared for the Q7 ending at the Cargo Plaza either.... In terms of MTA service, I've long seen more people waiting for Q3's over there along 148th, than on Q7's heading back west.... In terms of (any) bus service, most people I'd see over there at the Cargo plz. wait for that shuttle bus that takes you to Federal Circle.... Maybe if the Q7 ran to Federal Circle via Cargo Plaza, it'd garner more usage, IDK.....

Q18: Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with separate routes running on 65th pl & 69th st...

With the Q18, the routing b/w Astoria & 61st - Woodside is sufficient... However, the routing b/w Woodside & Maspeth is antiquated & it's more than just the 65th & 69th issue..... There is a need for a route connecting residential Maspeth (Q18 territory) to Ridgewood & dead-ending the thing at Grand doesn't do the network in that pocket of Queens any justice....

This comment here has nothing to do with your idea, but what I've always had an issue with, is the coverage gap b/w Ridgewood & Woodside/Jackson Hgts... The Q39 turns off at Sunnyside towards LIC, the Q18 stops dead in Maspeth, the Q58 pans east towards Elmhurst, and the Q47 drifts off 69th towards Glendale.... I personally don't care which route does it, which route{s} are altered to have that happen, or the nomenclature of said route, but here in 2019, some bus route should be directly running b/w those 2 sections of Queens at minimum....

Q24: There are long stretches of Atlantic av that's poorly covered with connecting bus service, which translates to a lot of "intermediate" ridership on a route that carries as much as the Q24 does.... While I advocate for LTD service in general, I just can't see it for this route... The Q24 is another one of these routes from the west (the Q54 is another) that IMO, simply serves too much of Jamaica.... IDK what it's attributed to necessarily, but the Q24 (ever since service to Patchen's been reinstated) carries more along B'way now, than it did before it got cut back to B'way Junction as part of the "draconian" cuts back in 2010 (which was then warranted at the time IMO)....

The other part of your comment I'm not getting.... What would a Brooklyn route that would take over the Q7 west of Rockaway Blvd have to do with replacing bus service between Lafayette/Patchen & Broadway Junction??

Q62: "The Q62 is intended to replace Portions of the B24 and Q18 Routes so that they can be more direct"
(taken from your map description of this route)

This, to me, is akin to combining the Country Club portion of the Bx24 with the City Island portion of the Bx29..... I personally don't care for routes like that..... It's like saying, well since the Greenpoint portion of the B24 tanks out at the & the Q18 from the south has a significant amt. of its usage disembarking at the , well those two segments may as well be combined to form a route.... IMO, bus routes should have some sort of cohesion or synergy to them from start to finish, as opposed to just connecting to two random places that happen to have the same subway line as a major ridership gen'.....

- The Greenpoint portion of the B24 I'd leave as a shuttle running b/w the & the (at best, I'd run it up to the mall on 48th/Northern - somehow)....
- As far as having separate routes running on 65th pl. & 69th st, they should each be routes that'd go on to further completing the network in some fashion...