Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[NewFlyer 230]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:27 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

New Proposal. 

In earlier pages, we all discussed that Broadway could use a crosstown route. So I decided to reroute the Q59, along with making some changes to it in Brooklyn. 

*Buses will now start by WilliamsBurg Bridge Plaza and go up via the Q54 route before returning to its normal route at Union Avenue. 

* Once the buses reach Queens Blvd, ALL Q59 buses will continue up Broadway until reaching Vernon Blvd.  Beyond this point, buses will Terminate at Astoria, 2nd Street. 

Riders wishing to continue to Rego Park will have to transfer to the Q60 or the .  

Honestly I’d rather extend the Q104 down Broadway than to extend the Q59 up there.

I do agree with having the Q59 travel out of Williamsburg via the Q54 route. It would save a lot of time plus  the Q59 usage tanks after Metropolitan/Lorimer Street stations going towards Williamsburg Bridge Plaza

Edited April 28, 2019 by NewFlyer 230

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

And I'm not opposed to severing the services here...the one from Moore would get a lot more service and could run easily with articulated services by itself. Is there that much ridership originating from Woodside?

As for rigids on SBS, when Brooklyn Division gets artics for the B46, I'd actually wonder if it may be worth it to send some of the blue/yellow SBS buses to LaGuardia. Also, keep in mind that B6 (the airline) is a major carrier at LGA, but is not served by LaGuardia Link (it has exclusive use of the Marine Air Terminal). I'll take your offer and suggest this:

Q70: 74/Broadway straight to the terminals, except Terminal 1 (Marine Air) - using articulated buses (the 10 additional artics from 6234-6286 could be used for this, because the capacity is needed). This would require current 7-minute headways, but fewer buses since there is no longer the leg back to Woodside.

Q80: 74/Broadway to Marine Air only---using rigid buses, every 10 minutes.

Q90: Woodside to all terminals following the M60 path around the airport---using rigid buses, every 12 minutes.

IMO, the hours on the LaGuardia Link should also be reduced from 24 hours a day to 4:30 AM to 12:30 AM (LaGuardia curfew rule). During this time, the Q33 would be extended into the Central Terminal Area for the major purpose of carrying employees in and out, and the Q47 would be rerouted to terminate at the front door to LaGuardia Depot.

I may have just opened pandora's box here....

There's sufficient ridership out of Woodside - but to be honest, I think a lot of that usage (coming from off the ) exists, simply because riders want to beat the imminent (over)crowding at Moore terminal.... Almost nobody comes off the Q18 to take the thing (Q70) & usage from off the LIRR is even worse in that category.... I would say that ppl. xferring from off the EB Q32 to the Q70 at Woodside is its secondary source of ridership....

The more I think about it, the more I'm actually not opposed to separate services from 61st & from 74th either.... As for your breakdown (or break up, I should say), keeping the "Q70" name/brand as the 74th st service, straight to the terminals is smart.... I also like your "Q90"... However, I don't see a need for the "Q80" - anyone needing MAT can take the Q47, or head over to 61st for your Q90....

[Mtatransit]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I may have just opened pandora's box here....

There's sufficient ridership out of Woodside - but to be honest, I think a lot of that usage (coming from off the ) exists, simply because riders want to beat the imminent (over)crowding at Moore terminal.... Almost nobody comes off the Q18 to take the thing (Q70) & usage from off the LIRR is even worse in that category.... I would say that ppl. xferring from off the EB Q32 to the Q70 at Woodside is its secondary source of ridership....

The more I think about it, the more I'm actually not opposed to separate services from 61st & from 74th either.... As for your breakdown (or break up, I should say), keeping the "Q70" name/brand as the 74th st service, straight to the terminals is smart.... I also like your "Q90"... However, I don't see a need for the "Q80" - anyone needing MAT can take the Q47, or head over to 61st for your Q90....

The thing is, I don't actually think there should be a airport bus from 61 Street. By far most of Q70s ridership comes from 74th. The only time I've seen people getting on the bus at 61 St is either when the  express is running, tourist hearing the announcement not knowing they could catch the bus two stations down, and people only traveling between 61 St and 74th St to transfer to other lines.

The only reason Q70 goes to 61 St like the airtrain going to Mets-Willet is because of Cuomo and his belief that LIRR passengers will use this connection, which honestly I don't see much of.

What I would do is cut the Q70 between 61 Street and 74 Street and run all buses 74 St- Astoria Bl-82 St (for MAT)- Terminals

[Lil 57]

23 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Any sort of weekend express bus service in the Rockaways would focus on Neponsit and Belle Harbor which is what we would like set up. Lots of QM16 riders in my group.

Since we're moving onto Queens I'll move this here. 

Maybe a QM15C operating with an extension to the Rockaways off-peak would be a good Idea. Sunday service should also be added on that line as well. During summer weekends some QM16 trips can also run to provide express service to Rockaways to beachgoers.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Lil 57

[Future ENY OP]

On 5/1/2019 at 9:48 AM, Lil 57 said:

Since we're moving onto Queens I'll move this here. 

Maybe a QM15C operating with an extension to the Rockaways off-peak would be a good Idea. Sunday service should also be added on that line as well. During summer weekends some QM16 trips can also run to provide express service to Rockaways to beachgoers.

First off. Stop with the abbreviations. All these A, B,C abbreviation need to stop and just have individual express buses it’s already confusing with the SIM1, SIM1C, SIM3, 3C, 33, 33C. 

However, I will say this. If demand is there an a express bus to the Rockaway beaches is warranted.  However, how do you convince people to pay 6.75 for the beaches to Rockaways? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

17 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

First off. Stop with the abbreviations. All these A, B,C abbreviation need to stop and just have individual express buses it’s already confusing with the SIM1, SIM1C, SIM3, 3C, 33, 33C. 

However, I will say this. If demand is there an a express bus to the Rockaway beaches is warranted.  However, how do you convince people to pay 6.75 for the beaches to Rockaways? 

Most people take the ferry now and they are packed.... That makes the Rockaways much more accessible.  An express bus is something that people in Neponsit and Belle Harbor want on weekends, and we will be pushing for that.  One idea was to have the QM15 run on Sundays and extend some trips from Howard Beach to Neponsit.  I'm not sure there would be enough demand just in Neponsit or Belle Harbor though, and there's also the question of having too long of a pick-up segment.  

[Future ENY OP]

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Most people take the ferry now and they are packed.... That makes the Rockaways much more accessible.  An express bus is something that people in Neponsit and Belle Harbor want on weekends, and we will be pushing for that.  One idea was to have the QM15 run on Sundays and extend some trips from Howard Beach to Neponsit.  I'm not sure there would be enough demand just in Neponsit or Belle Harbor though, and there's also the question of having too long of a pick-up segment.  

I agree with you @Via Garibaldi 8  Sunday service at the least is warranted for the Rockaways. As long as the demand is there than its definitely warranted. Keep up the good work on the initiatives. 

[BrooklynBus]

Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Today's Queens Times Ledger.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjLF7UGvRJvZrCyoGObpZ20bu_cz

[Mtatransit]

46 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Most people take the ferry now and they are packed.... That makes the Rockaways much more accessible.  An express bus is something that people in Neponsit and Belle Harbor want on weekends, and we will be pushing for that.  One idea was to have the QM15 run on Sundays and extend some trips from Howard Beach to Neponsit.  I'm not sure there would be enough demand just in Neponsit or Belle Harbor though, and there's also the question of having too long of a pick-up segment.  

I don’t think those neighborhood that warrant an express bus on the weekends. The demand of those two neighborhood, may not be enough for a full weekend express service. 

The demographics on the ferry and typical express rider is different and that is especially true in the Rockaways

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

I don’t think those neighborhood that warrant an express bus on the weekends. The demand of those two neighborhood, may not be enough for a full weekend express service. 

The demographics on the ferry and typical express rider is different and that is especially true in the Rockaways

First off, you are going off of your opinion and your opinion only and nothing more. We have a lot of Neponsit and Bell Harbor residents in our advocacy group, and we have polled them, hence why we know that they want service. All we asked was if they would use weekend service.  We're aware of the catchment area and that would have to be worked out.

Second, a QM15 extension on weekends if done properly could work since it would serve more than just those two neighborhoods.

Third, yes, we know the different demographics on the ferry and on the express bus.

[Interested Rider]

On 4/25/2019 at 9:48 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Okay. The Q22 to Sheepshead Bay would also be a great idea, since it would give Sheepshead Bay access to all of the Rockaway Peninsula. I had originally proposed a Q22 to Nostrand, Q35 to Sheepshead Bay because there could also be a potential to provide direct access between all of the Rockaway Peninsula and both Kings Plaza, across the bridge, and the Junction, where many Rockaway riders get off to transfer to the subway. However, a Q22 to Sheepshead Bay should also be considered as well.

However, there could also be another solution to the Sheepshead Bay-Rockaway commute problem, which is to create a brand new route from scratch that would serve Sheepshead Bay, Knapp Street, and the Rockaway Peninsula, something you proposed in 2012 on Sheepshead Bites (Now Bklyner). Link to that article is here: https://bklyner.com/my-proposed-bus-route-changes-for-sheepshead-bay-and-adjacent-neighborhoods-part-1-of-2-sheepshead-bay/. Here, your proposed route, the Q51, would start at the Sheepshead Bay station, take the eastern end of the B4 routing (Emmons Av/Shore Pkwy), then Knapp Street, Avenue U, and follow the Q35 route to Rockaway Park. This can also provide a direct service between the areas in question, and still provide Knapp Street with a bus route near their homes. While this could be viewed as a branch of the Q35, it supplements the two routes, but doesn't affect both of them in any manner, aside from some slight schedule adjustments to accommodate the route. The Q51 would operate every 10-15 minutes at all times except late nights.

However, this would entail cutting the B4 back to Sheepshead Bay station at all times except late nights (there is no B4 service at night), something that you also proposed in 2004 and 2012. They would have to transfer to the Q51 at Sheepshead Bay Road. However, the upside is that Sheepshead Bay residents would have a convenient transit options to the nearby peninsula.

If you want to discuss the extension of routes on the Rockaway peninsula to Sheepshead Bay Station, I would suggest that the extension to the station be discussed on the brooklyn bus Proposals thread as it impacts upon the B/3, B/4, B/41 which are Brooklyn routes. Checking through some of the previous postings on that thread will reveal that this subject has been covered there as well.

The subject of the Q/79 to Bellerose station has been mentioned and I think that there was a proposed extension to Floral Park station which was shot down by the NIMBYS there some time ago.

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Today's Queens Times Ledger.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjLF7UGvRJvZrCyoGObpZ20bu_cz

 

That depends on who does or doesn't want it to speed things up.

[BrooklynBus]

29 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

That depends on who does or doesn't want it to speed things up.

They changed the title. My title was - Will the Redesign Result in Improvements. "Speed things up" is ambiguous. Is one mile per hour in average bus speeds considered as "speed things up?" Is one mph faster for buses and two mph slower for all other traffic "speed things up? It is ridiculous to have bus lanes in effect when there are no buses operating on the street as is the case for several blocks on Kings Highway. 

As I stated in the article what needs to be measured is reductions in passenger trip times not reductions in bus bus speeds. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

39 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

They changed the title. My title was - Will the Redesign Result in Improvements. "Speed things up" is ambiguous. Is one mile per hour in average bus speeds considered as "speed things up?" Is one mph faster for buses and two mph slower for all other traffic "speed things up? It is ridiculous to have bus lanes in effect when there are no buses operating on the street as is the case for several blocks on Kings Highway. 

As I stated in the article what needs to be measured is reductions in passenger trip times not reductions in bus bus speeds. 

 

If the right people have a vested interest in reducing passenger trip times, then there will be a reduction in passenger trip times. If the right people have a vested interest in not reducing passenger trip times, then there won't be any reduction.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

If the right people have a vested interest in reducing passenger trip times, then there will be a reduction in passenger trip times. If the right people have a vested interest in not reducing passenger trip times, then there won't be any reduction.

Correct. And the “right” people, meaning those in charge, have no interest in reducing passenger trip times. That’s why these studies will fail to increase ridership. 

[JeremiahC99]

7 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

If you want to discuss the extension of routes on the Rockaway peninsula to Sheepshead Bay Station, I would suggest that the extension to the station be discussed on the brooklyn bus Proposals thread as it impacts upon the B/3, B/4, B/41 which are Brooklyn routes. Checking through some of the previous postings on that thread will reveal that this subject has been covered there as well.

I only put it here because title of the thread is Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas, and although the Queens extension of Queens routes into Brooklyn mostly discusses Brooklyn, I put here because these Queens routes are in the Queens Division, not in the Brooklyn Thread as these routes are not in the Brooklyn Division.

[B35 via Church]

11 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

....and I think that there was a proposed extension to Floral Park station which was shot down by the NIMBYS there some time ago.

Yup, right down Tulip....

While the NIMBY's wanted no part of that extension, I didn't know it was this deep (3rd to last paragraph, last statement)......

Now, not only did that extension never happen, we don't even have a Q79 anymore.... While there's service along LNP in the form of an extended Q36, it's not quite the same as having a dedicated service along that corridor.... One of many routes that should've been left alone AFAIC....

Edited May 4, 2019 by B35 via Church

[Interested Rider]

11 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I only put it here because title of the thread is Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas, and although the Queens extension of Queens routes into Brooklyn mostly discusses Brooklyn, I put here because these Queens routes are in the Queens Division, not in the Brooklyn Thread as these routes are not in the Brooklyn Division.

It is a Queens division proposal that impacts upon Brooklyn and while you may think that it should not be posted there, it has to be posted there as your proposal will impact upon where I live in Brooklyn.This is why it has to be posted there as well as while your proposal is listed here , some persons who are not interested in Queens but are interested in Brooklyn will not see it.

As far as any extension from the Rockaways to Sheepshead Bay, it has been talked to death on the Brooklyn Proposals thread. It is bad enough that the parking situation has gotten worse as had the traffic at all hours and there is no place to turn the bus  in the area. . The q/22 has it own problems in Rockaway and since it is the only route that operates on the peninsula for its entire route and to extend it into Brooklyn will exacerbate the problems even more.

 

[JeremiahC99]

21 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I will say something else though. If people don’t want bus service in their neighborhood, I can assure you that the  is more than happy to oblige. Less service they have to run the better is how they view it. lol

 

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well that’s different, and if anything were to run there, that’s about as far as it should go. Aside from Breezy Point, there is another area that is also private and they like Breezy Point have no interest in bus service.

Moved it here since the conversation is moving towards Queens.

Anyway, I feel that it would not make any sense to run a service past 169 anyway, not even for the summer. Past Beach 169th Street and the entrance to Fort Tilden, all you have are some residencies and a few businesses until Beach 184th. From there to Breezy Point, there’s nothing. 

Honestly, I would just have any Rockaway route going east of Beach 116 go as far as Beach 169th Street, with bus service improvements being focused on the rest of the peninsula (aka the areas actually shown on the Queens bus map). To start, I would suggest having the Q35 (as well as the new  Rockaway-Brooklyn route) extended east from Rockaway Park to the growing communities of Arverne and Egemere at Beach 54th Street, where the Q52 terminates. This would provided another crosstown bus service on the peninsula, and provide an alternative to the Q22.

I am also proposing not a routing change, but a operations change. JFK Depot and Far Rockaway Depot have a combined total of 289 buses, with around 134 or so Orion VII Old Generation (OG) Hybrids, 51 Next Generation (NG) Hybrids, 29 Local XD60s for the Q10, and for the Q52, a fleet of SBS wrapped XD60s, which will be phased out and replaced with identical buses in a few weeks. The fleet of these two Depots can be better reorganized for simplified maintenance and improved reliability. To simply maintenance, improve fleet reliability, and make the routes more attractive, I suggest doing a fleet “swap”. What I am proposing is that the JFK local routes only use OG Hybrids, while the Far Rockaway Local routes only use Next Gens for their routes. This would improve reliability for there OGs and provide some pizzaz for the Far Rockaway routes, cus those OGS were so 15 years ago. I can guarantee you that you out some sexy-ass buses such as a Next Gen or an Xcelsior on a poor performing route and you just added passengers back on the bus cause those buses are fire bro. 🔥🔥🔥

[Lex]

2 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

Moved it here since the conversation is moving towards Queens.

Anyway, I feel that it would not make any sense to run a service past 169 anyway, not even for the summer. Past Beach 169th Street and the entrance to Fort Tilden, all you have are some residencies and a few businesses until Beach 184th. From there to Breezy Point, there’s nothing. 

Honestly, I would just have any Rockaway route going east of Beach 116 go as far as Beach 169th Street, with bus service improvements being focused on the rest of the peninsula (aka the areas actually shown on the Queens bus map). To start, I would suggest having the Q35 (as well as the new  Rockaway-Brooklyn route) extended east from Rockaway Park to the growing communities of Arverne and Egemere at Beach 54th Street, where the Q52 terminates. This would provided another crosstown bus service on the peninsula, and provide an alternative to the Q22.

I am also proposing not a routing change, but a operations change. JFK Depot and Far Rockaway Depot have a combined total of 289 buses, with around 134 or so Orion VII Old Generation (OG) Hybrids, 51 Next Generation (NG) Hybrids, 29 Local XD60s for the Q10, and for the Q52, a fleet of SBS wrapped XD60s, which will be phased out and replaced with identical buses in a few weeks. The fleet of these two Depots can be better reorganized for simplified maintenance and improved reliability. To simply maintenance, improve fleet reliability, and make the routes more attractive, I suggest doing a fleet “swap”. What I am proposing is that the JFK local routes only use OG Hybrids, while the Far Rockaway Local routes only use Next Gens for their routes. This would improve reliability for there OGs and provide some pizzaz for the Far Rockaway routes, cus those OGS were so 15 years ago. I can guarantee you that you out some sexy-ass buses such as a Next Gen or an Xcelsior on a poor performing route and you just added passengers back on the bus cause those buses are fire bro. 🔥🔥🔥

You really need an enema.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

Moved it here since the conversation is moving towards Queens.

Anyway, I feel that it would not make any sense to run a service past 169 anyway, not even for the summer. Past Beach 169th Street and the entrance to Fort Tilden, all you have are some residencies and a few businesses until Beach 184th. From there to Breezy Point, there’s nothing. 

Honestly, I would just have any Rockaway route going east of Beach 116 go as far as Beach 169th Street, with bus service improvements being focused on the rest of the peninsula (aka the areas actually shown on the Queens bus map). To start, I would suggest having the Q35 (as well as the new  Rockaway-Brooklyn route) extended east from Rockaway Park to the growing communities of Arverne and Egemere at Beach 54th Street, where the Q52 terminates. This would provided another crosstown bus service on the peninsula, and provide an alternative to the Q22.

I am also proposing not a routing change, but a operations change. JFK Depot and Far Rockaway Depot have a combined total of 289 buses, with around 134 or so Orion VII Old Generation (OG) Hybrids, 51 Next Generation (NG) Hybrids, 29 Local XD60s for the Q10, and for the Q52, a fleet of SBS wrapped XD60s, which will be phased out and replaced with identical buses in a few weeks. The fleet of these two Depots can be better reorganized for simplified maintenance and improved reliability. To simply maintenance, improve fleet reliability, and make the routes more attractive, I suggest doing a fleet “swap”. What I am proposing is that the JFK local routes only use OG Hybrids, while the Far Rockaway Local routes only use Next Gens for their routes. This would improve reliability for there OGs and provide some pizzaz for the Far Rockaway routes, cus those OGS were so 15 years ago. I can guarantee you that you out some sexy-ass buses such as a Next Gen or an Xcelsior on a poor performing route and you just added passengers back on the bus cause those buses are fire bro. 🔥🔥🔥

LMAO... I can guarantee you that most people don’t care what kind of bus it is, as long as it has the basics (a seat, decent climate control, and relatively clean), etc., oh and everybody likes new buses. Cleaner, nicer amenities, etc.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

Quote

 I can guarantee you that you out some sexy-ass buses such as a Next Gen or an Xcelsior on a poor performing route and you just added passengers back on the bus cause those buses are fire bro. 🔥🔥🔥

Mental illness is real.

This, my friends, is the future of America.....

[JeremiahC99]

26 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

LMAO... I can guarantee you that most people don’t care what kind of bus it is, as long as it has the basics (a seat, decent climate control, and relatively clean), etc., oh and everybody likes new buses. Cleaner, nicer amenities, etc.

Those Next Gens may not be new, but they are somewhat close enough. Sure beats the outdated garbage that is the OGs, which were so 15 years ago, although as you said, as long as the basics exist that’s all that matters. I only proposed it for maintenance simplification at the JFK end.

27 minutes ago, Lex said:

You really need an enema.

Not really. I’m under the belief that rebranding the bus routes is one step in improving the bus network, as a modern fleet with modern route changes can get people back on the bus. I mean look at the M42 and M50 routes in Manhattan. Ever since new buses showed up on the route, the decline in ridership has lessened to an extent. What they need is some upgrades that are more customer friendly, such as the plug doors that were piloted n NovaBus 5311 a few years ago. Maybe some new engines, a better seating arrangements as to not feel cramped, you know what, I’ll let John Travolta explain it in song form.

 

[B35 via Church]

To hell with John Travolta....

Tampa Bay couldn't strike you with enough lightning bolts to silence your incessant stupidity... Shut up.

[Lex]

10 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I only proposed it for maintenance simplification at the JFK end.

So long as the two depots pool, this is moot.

 

11 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Not really. I’m under the belief that rebranding the bus routes is one step in improving the bus network, as a modern fleet with modern route changes can get people back on the bus.

Sure, and having the Q35 run to Arverne is somehow not a 💩 idea (which goes double for a second route between the Rockaways and Brooklyn).

I won't even bother with the rest of the stuff, seeing how it devolves into making less sense than the other stuff.