Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[aemoreira81]

19 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Kissena Blvd doesn't necessarily need to have the Q27 running on it. The Q27 on Kissena for the most part serves as a convenience and a lot of people tend to take it, if a Q17 and Q25 hasn't shown up (mostly the Q25 though since the Q17 is more frequent) . I would have the Q27 and Q65 run up Parsons Blvd. The Q27 would turn down Sanford and then Kissena like the Q65 currently does now, and the Q65 would continue to Roosevelt Ave. It would run down Roosevelt Ave to College Point Blvd where it will then run it current route to its terminal.

Since we are on the topic of Kissena Blvd, I feel that the Q25 needs improvements in service. The Q25 compared to the Q44 and Q65 is slow traveling between Flushing and Jamaica. They should have given it daily limited service to speed service up especially after that NE Queens bus study was done back in 2015. I feel like the Q17 and Q27 has to pick up the slack in Flushing for the subpar Q25 service, when the Q25 should technically be the most frequent of them all. I always wondered how they would implement select bus service on that route, with Kissena Blvd being narrow in Flushing and it traveling down narrow blocks in College Point. 

 

There are no turns from Main Street allowed at Roosevelt Avenue. That turn would have to be off of Bowne Street. But otherwise, I love that plan, as it finally solves the issue of having a bus route serve The Shops at Skyview that goes through Flushing. I would also argue that perhaps the Q12, once converted to articulated service, and Q27 should terminate either at Skyview or at the front door to Stengel. (The advantage of terminating at Skyview is avoiding a narrow two-way 39 Avenue on relay.) This is also why the Q48 was shifted at the Flushing end, to avoid the two-way part of 39 Avenue. There are some streets down which a bus should not be run.

Edited August 10, 2019 by aemoreira81

[NewFlyer 230]

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

 

There are no turns from Main Street allowed at Roosevelt Avenue. That turn would have to be off of Bowne Street. But otherwise, I love that plan, as it finally solves the issue of having a bus route serve The Shops at Skyview that goes through Flushing. I would also argue that perhaps the Q12, once converted to articulated service, and Q27 should terminate either at Skyview or at the front door to Stengel. (The advantage of terminating at Skyview is avoiding a narrow two-way 39 Avenue on relay.) This is also why the Q48 was shifted at the Flushing end, to avoid the two-way part of 39 Avenue. There are some streets down which a bus should not be run.

Yeah the Q65 would turn onto Roosevelt Ave from Parsons Blvd. 

 

[IAlam]

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This is going to sound petty, but I'm pretty sure there's some truth to it.....

While you may be right about the (SB) Q17 & Q27 picking up slack for the (SB) 25/34 within Flushing, I'm not so necessarily sure that it has to do with subpar service on the Q25, as much as it is simply having a better chance at getting a seat.... The Q25 (or the Q65) over there at Roosevelt/Main, forget it - folks having came from College Point fill up those buses like it's nothing.... Unless you hop the back of the bus as people are getting off at Flushing (sad that even has to be mentioned & it being an actual thing), chances are you're going to be standing for some time..... As many times as I have been in, and taken buses in & out of Flushing, I don't think I have ever taken the Q25/34/65 from Flushing - and it's mainly for the reason I'm mentioning in this post....

Queens bus routes never feel like they get the service they need. There a very few number of lines that get the amount of buses that they actually need. The Q25/34/65 is a great example of that. Some of the lines I've seen for the buses especially Q27 are so long they go around the block. Compared to a lot of Brooklyn buses and Manhattan buses I've been on I've always been able to get a seat without much of a problem. 

I always felt like Queens bus routes are being punished for having a much lower turnover rate compared to their Manhattan/Brooklyn counterparts. Since people are usually only going to or from one place ridership appears to much lower even though the buses are full.

[B35 via Church]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:43 PM, aemoreira81 said:

There are no turns from Main Street allowed at Roosevelt Avenue. That turn would have to be off of Bowne Street. But otherwise, I love that plan, as it finally solves the issue of having a bus route serve The Shops at Skyview that goes through Flushing. I would also argue that perhaps the Q12, once converted to articulated service, and Q27 should terminate either at Skyview or at the front door to Stengel. (The advantage of terminating at Skyview is avoiding a narrow two-way 39 Avenue on relay.) This is also why the Q48 was shifted at the Flushing end, to avoid the two-way part of 39 Avenue. There are some streets down which a bus should not be run.

He wouldn't have Q65's using Main st. at all.... The Q27 would supplant the Q65 from Bowne/Sanford to 39th/Main (which is where the Q27 turns off to eventually terminate) & the Q65 would shoot along Roosevelt from Parsons to College Point blvd.... In other words, his rendition of a Q65 would go 45th > Parsons > Roosevelt > College Pt. (blvd) - eliminating that useless stint on Northern....

As far as what you're bringing up, I can't agree with anything terminating at that mall (not even the Q58, which is a stone's throw away from it, before turning off on 41 rd) & the ridiculous pipe dream that would have buses terminating at Stengel instead of in Downtown Flushing needs to be "terminated" like, yesterday..... That empty mileage would end up manifesting itself in other ways....

On 8/10/2019 at 12:02 AM, IAlam said:

Queens bus routes never feel like they get the service they need. There a very few number of lines that get the amount of buses that they actually need. The Q25/34/65 is a great example of that. Some of the lines I've seen for the buses especially Q27 are so long they go around the block. Compared to a lot of Brooklyn buses and Manhattan buses I've been on I've always been able to get a seat without much of a problem. 

I always felt like Queens bus routes are being punished for having a much lower turnover rate compared to their Manhattan/Brooklyn counterparts. Since people are usually only going to or from one place ridership appears to much lower even though the buses are full.

Yeah, we've had that discussion on here some time ago..... The issue you're mentioning is largely specific to the former PBL routes.... The schedules were basically copied & pasted during the transition/takeover, with varied levels of improvements on some routes over time..... The difference in service between the former PBL's compared to the NYCT routes (to me at least), to this day, is still palpable....

To your other point.... Yeah, the bus network in Queens is a decent example that you don't have to be heavily dependent/reliant on a grid based network.... I'm of the belief that turnover is simply lower, due to the lack of different subway corridors than can be connected to... That, and too much of its land mass (100-110 sq. miles; somewhere around that range) is either uninhabitable (e.g. parkland/grassland) or SFR (single family residential).... Queens could stand to use more areas (neighborhoods, and/or commercial districts) that attract people from other cities, other boroughs, or (as sad as this sounds) other neighborhoods.....

[Mtatransit]

On 8/11/2019 at 10:44 AM, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, we've had that discussion on here some time ago..... The issue you're mentioning is largely specific to the former PBL routes.... The schedules were basically copied & pasted during the transition/takeover, with varied levels of improvements on some routes over time..... The difference in service between the former PBL's compared to the NYCT routes (to me at least), to this day, is still palpable....

 

Many MTA Bus routes still have 30 minutes headway early on weekend nights.

The Q66 comes to mind, and the buses are packed. 8PM during Sat/Sun is too early to go to 30 min headways. 

[LGA Link N Train]

Here’s a proposal I’m working on 

Q75 Limited Zone (Or Q75Z) 

This idea will tie into someone else’s idea on here (I forgot who). Anyways, Buses will start at Union Tpke with the Q46 and run up Union Turnpike (making Limited Stops) until it reaches Francis Lewis Blvd. once that happens, the Bus will run nonstop until it reaches Utopia Parkway, where it’ll replace the Q76 up until College Point. Q76 Buses will be rerouted to serve Bay Terrace. 

Any thoughts or Opinions? 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Here’s a proposal I’m working on 

Q75 Limited Zone (Or Q75Z) 

This idea will tie into someone else’s idea on here (I forgot who). Anyways, Buses will start at Union Tpke with the Q46 and run up Union Turnpike (making Limited Stops) until it reaches Francis Lewis Blvd. once that happens, the Bus will run nonstop until it reaches Utopia Parkway, where it’ll replace the Q76 up until College Point. Q76 Buses will be rerouted to serve Bay Terrace. 

Any thoughts or Opinions? 

Looks like you're referring to my idea of diverting the Q76 to Kew Gardens (E)(F) via Utopia & Francis Lewis.... I wouldn't have it running to College pt. though.

So, I guess you want to create a sort of spinoff to it, that would have an a] longer & b] "official" nonstop portion than the (real) Q76? Sorry, I can't say I see the point of bypassing so much potential ridership along Francis Lewis between [Union Tpke.] & [Utopia Pkwy] - as in, everything b/w HHE & 32nd av. like that.... It looks like you're attempting to cater to the riders (everything on the real Q76 b/w College Point, & Clearview) that would be the least likely to utilize the route along Union Tpke....

[Mtatransit]

Speaking of express I think that the Q46 should have a version of that. Non-stop from Kew Garden to Utopia Pkwy. Local/Limited to Springfield will make all stops missed. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Speaking of express I think that the Q46 should have a version of that. Non-stop from Kew Garden to Utopia Pkwy. Local/Limited to Springfield will make all stops missed. 

It used to. Back when it was the Q44A, express trips (peak hours, peak direction only) ran non-stop between Springfield and Main Street.

[Union Tpke]

4 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

It used to. Back when it was the Q44A, express trips (peak hours, peak direction only) ran non-stop between Springfield and Main Street.

 

12 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Speaking of express I think that the Q46 should have a version of that. Non-stop from Kew Garden to Utopia Pkwy. Local/Limited to Springfield will make all stops missed. 

Courtesy of X-Astorian from subchat:

Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

[EastFlatbushLarry]

8 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

 

Courtesy of X-Astorian from subchat:

Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

ah. i love the way they threw the PBL under the bus (no pun intended) in an attempt to sway ridership. marketing/advertising firms knew how to get it done back in the day

[B35 via Church]

L-M-A-O at that illustration.

If the MTA were to illustrate something of the sort on today's bus schedules, all they'd need to depict is someone holding an upside down wallet with a scowl on their face, with an uber in the background !

[IAlam]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:20 PM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Here’s a proposal I’m working on 

Q75 Limited Zone (Or Q75Z) 

This idea will tie into someone else’s idea on here (I forgot who). Anyways, Buses will start at Union Tpke with the Q46 and run up Union Turnpike (making Limited Stops) until it reaches Francis Lewis Blvd. once that happens, the Bus will run nonstop until it reaches Utopia Parkway, where it’ll replace the Q76 up until College Point. Q76 Buses will be rerouted to serve Bay Terrace. 

Any thoughts or Opinions? 

 

19 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Speaking of express I think that the Q46 should have a version of that. Non-stop from Kew Garden to Utopia Pkwy. Local/Limited to Springfield will make all stops missed. 

I'm interested in having an express Q46 Making local stops to the GCP and non stop to Union Turnpike Station via the GCP. On the return pick up at the station then the stop after before running express on the GCP until it gets to Union. Ideally I'd want it to stop at Springfield too but that doesn't seem to be possible. Another idea would be to get a Hillisde bus instead and run it express to Union Tpk Sta once it hits the Clearview Expressway.

7 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Courtesy of X-Astorian from subchat:

[pic] Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

[pic] Express yourself on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

piclf on the Q44A Brochure 1977 by Union Turnpike, on Flickr

TBH they weren't wrong this applies today as well. The only time I find Queens Express buses faster is for going from Queens to Downtown and only during the AM.

[aemoreira81]

20 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Speaking of express I think that the Q46 should have a version of that. Non-stop from Kew Garden to Utopia Pkwy. Local/Limited to Springfield will make all stops missed. 

With St. John's University in the middle of that nonstop section of what was then the Q44A (now Q46)...what about this service pattern on weekdays only to actually do it?

Q45 (currently Q46 Local): Union Turnpike to Springfield Boulevard local, with half of trips continuing on to Glen Oaks.

Q46 to LIJ, one pickup at Kew Gardens-Union Turnpike , then nonstop to Utopia Parkway via the Grand Central. First stop at the main gate to St. John's University (near the law school tower), then Union and Utopia, 188 Street, Francis Lewis Boulevard, Bell Boulevard, Springfield Boulevard, and then all stops to LIJ? Buses would be signed as: SJU First Stop

Q46 to Kew Gardens: all stops to Springfield Boulevard, then Bell Boulevard, Francis Lewis Boulevard, 188 Street, Utopia by SJU Gate 1, and then nonstop to Kew Gardens-Union Turnpike  only.

Evenings after 9 PM, and weekends, the Q46 would operate only via Union Turnpike.

You cannot miss St. John's University...and I would also argue that the Q46 should be the candidate for articulated buses out of QV...with two major ridership generators, St. John's University and North Shore-LIJ, along with perhaps one of the largest reverse commutes in the city on the local bus network.

That said, that illustration is SO bad, but the point exists today...the Q46 might be one of the few routes where it's necessary to segregate longer riders from shorter riders.  When MSBA existed, the N5 served that purpose for Green Acres, but Green Acres is more a shopping destination than a work destination.

BTW, why that express Q44A made a stop at 149 Street? Because the Q44 previously ran via 150 Street. The nonstop to Springfield would be unwieldy today because the local fleet is capped at 40 mph (45 mph for the blue-yellow LFS rigids).

Edited August 14, 2019 by aemoreira81

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, IAlam said:

 

I'm interested in having an express Q46 Making local stops to the GCP and non stop to Union Turnpike Station via the GCP. On the return pick up at the station then the stop after before running express on the GCP until it gets to Union. Ideally I'd want it to stop at Springfield too but that doesn't seem to be possible. Another idea would be to get a Hillisde bus instead and run it express to Union Tpk Sta once it hits the Clearview Expressway.

TBH they weren't wrong this applies today as well. The only time I find Queens Express buses faster is for going from Queens to Downtown and only during the AM.

 

The nonstop part would pretty much have to be on the GCP. With the express trips, people saw the buses passing by and complained. That's how the express devolved into a Limited.

[bwwnyc123]

They could have done that to Q46 Limited turned into an Express or to become SBS.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

33 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

With St. John's University in the middle of that nonstop section of what was then the Q44A (now Q46)...what about this service pattern on weekdays only to actually do it?

Q45 (currently Q46 Local): Union Turnpike to Springfield Boulevard local, with half of trips continuing on to Glen Oaks.

Q46 to LIJ, one pickup at Kew Gardens-Union Turnpike , then nonstop to Utopia Parkway via the Grand Central. First stop at the main gate to St. John's University (near the law school tower), then Union and Utopia, 188 Street, Francis Lewis Boulevard, Bell Boulevard, Springfield Boulevard, and then all stops to LIJ? Buses would be signed as: SJU First Stop

Q46 to Kew Gardens: all stops to Springfield Boulevard, then Bell Boulevard, Francis Lewis Boulevard, 188 Street, Utopia by SJU Gate 1, and then nonstop to Kew Gardens-Union Turnpike  only.

Evenings after 9 PM, and weekends, the Q46 would operate only via Union Turnpike.

You cannot miss St. John's University...and I would also argue that the Q46 should be the candidate for articulated buses out of QV...with two major ridership generators, St. John's University and North Shore-LIJ, along with perhaps one of the largest reverse commutes in the city on the local bus network.

St. John's is not the ridership generator you make it out to be. A lot of people drive there. There's also those who take the Q46, but it is no means a significant portion of ridership. Local/Limited service can handle intermediate stops (including St. John's), while some sort of express handles the more eastern sections. The question is where would the last stop before it runs straight to the subway be?

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

L-M-A-O at that illustration.

If the MTA were to illustrate something of the sort on today's bus schedules, all they'd need to depict is someone holding an upside down wallet with a scowl on their face, with an uber in the background !

Knowing the MTA they'd probably spend $3 on a monkey banging away at MS Paint to do something like this.

Could you imagine the MTA doing any kind of advertising in this day and age?

[bobtehpanda]

56 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

St. John's is not the ridership generator you make it out to be. A lot of people drive there. There's also those who take the Q46, but it is no means a significant portion of ridership. Local/Limited service can handle intermediate stops (including St. John's), while some sort of express handles the more eastern sections. The question is where would the last stop before it runs straight to the subway be?

Probably Springfield, the way the local/limited runs today.

[aemoreira81]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Probably Springfield, the way the local/limited runs today.

That might make sense if the MTA didn't cap the local bus fleet at 40 mph (45 for the blue-and-yellow LFS rigids). That's the problem. That would be pretty slow for a long distance on the Grand Central. Queens and the Bronx were the first places where the 40 mph cap was introduced.

Edited August 15, 2019 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

Q46 does not need to be on no Grand Central Parkway in any facet....

[Union Tpke]

9 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Knowing the MTA they'd probably spend $3 on a monkey banging away at MS Paint to do something like this.

Could you imagine the MTA doing any kind of advertising in this day and age?

Their advertising campaigns in the 1990s were very good.

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

With St. John's University in the middle of that nonstop section of what was then the Q44A (now Q46)...what about this service pattern on weekdays only to actually do it?

Q45 (currently Q46 Local): Union Turnpike to Springfield Boulevard local, with half of trips continuing on to Glen Oaks.

Q46 to LIJ, one pickup at Kew Gardens-Union Turnpike , then nonstop to Utopia Parkway via the Grand Central. First stop at the main gate to St. John's University (near the law school tower), then Union and Utopia, 188 Street, Francis Lewis Boulevard, Bell Boulevard, Springfield Boulevard, and then all stops to LIJ? Buses would be signed as: SJU First Stop

Q46 to Kew Gardens: all stops to Springfield Boulevard, then Bell Boulevard, Francis Lewis Boulevard, 188 Street, Utopia by SJU Gate 1, and then nonstop to Kew Gardens-Union Turnpike  only.

Evenings after 9 PM, and weekends, the Q46 would operate only via Union Turnpike.

You cannot miss St. John's University...and I would also argue that the Q46 should be the candidate for articulated buses out of QV...with two major ridership generators, St. John's University and North Shore-LIJ, along with perhaps one of the largest reverse commutes in the city on the local bus network.

That said, that illustration is SO bad, but the point exists today...the Q46 might be one of the few routes where it's necessary to segregate longer riders from shorter riders. 

You say that there's this necessity for the Q46 to have riders riding longer distances segregated from those taking buses shorter distances, but yet you're going on & on about a college that isn't THAT far from the subway from the west, nor are there any significant amt. of riders from the east on the Q46 disembarking there.... So much so that you're giving local service along Union Tpke. a new route number? C'mon now.....

Reading this post of yours, well hell, I guess I couldn't miss St. John's University....

11 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

St. John's is not the ridership generator you make it out to be. A lot of people drive there. There's also those who take the Q46, but it is no means a significant portion of ridership. Local/Limited service can handle intermediate stops (including St. John's), while some sort of express handles the more eastern sections.

The question is where would the last stop before it runs straight to the subway be?

10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Probably Springfield, the way the local/limited runs today.

This is the problem I'm having here.....

How would this commuter local (which is all it is) service compare with limited service, in terms of frequency? Would service run so thin (to the point where you may as well not even start this service up), or would service run in abundance, to the point where we're either talking about a] taking LTD service away to run these commuter locals, or b] overserving the entire Union Tpke. corridor with a ton of locals, LTD's, and commuter locals?

I mean, I'm all for nostalgia, but in any case, I'm not going to get carried away with doing that to the Q46 because an old bus schedule of a defunct route was posted.... Having Q46's going nonstop from the subway to Springfield sounds crazy to me.... Vast majority of people that would even be on those buses are Springfield riders & LIJ riders - with that not even accounting for any more a significant amount of overall ridership on the Q46, compared to what AE Moreira is going on about, about facilitating riders riding b/w the subway & SJU....

At best, I can see one commuter express (as in, the QM6) trip running straight to Springfield, then handling everything east of it..... But as far as the Q46 doing that? Not remotely worth it, the way I see it....

Apparently, I'm in the minority in this discussion.

[bobtehpanda]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

You say that there's this necessity for the Q46 to have riders riding longer distances segregated from those taking buses shorter distances, but yet you're going on & on about a college that isn't THAT far from the subway from the west, nor are there any significant amt. of riders from the east on the Q46 disembarking there.... So much so that you're giving local service along Union Tpke. a new route number? C'mon now.....

Reading this post of yours, well hell, I guess I couldn't miss St. John's University....

This is the problem I'm having here.....

How would this commuter local (which is all it is) service compare with limited service, in terms of frequency? Would service run so thin (to the point where you may as well not even start this service up), or would service run in abundance, to the point where we're either talking about a] taking LTD service away to run these commuter locals, or b] overserving the entire Union Tpke. corridor with a ton of locals, LTD's, and commuter locals?

I mean, I'm all for nostalgia, but in any case, I'm not going to get carried away with doing that to the Q46 because an old bus schedule of a defunct route was posted.... Having Q46's going nonstop from the subway to Springfield sounds crazy to me.... Vast majority of people that would even be on those buses are Springfield riders & LIJ riders - with that not even accounting for any more a significant amount of overall ridership on the Q46, compared to what AE Moreira is going on about, about facilitating riders riding b/w the subway & SJU....

At best, I can see one commuter express (as in, the QM6) trip running straight to Springfield, then handling everything east of it..... But as far as the Q46 doing that? Not remotely worth it, the way I see it....

Apparently, I'm in the minority in this discussion.

It's tricky.

Alternatively, you could move the changeover point west to SJU, to the point where

- All stops to Springfield

- LTD to Utopia, local to Glen Oaks

- Express to Utopia, LTD to Springfield, local east to LIJ

The more I think about this proposal though, the more it seems like a nightmare rehash of the various flavors of N22 post-NICE.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's tricky.

Alternatively, you could move the changeover point west to SJU, to the point where

- All stops to Springfield

- LTD to Utopia, local to Glen Oaks

- Express to Utopia, LTD to Springfield, local east to LIJ

The more I think about this proposal though, the more it seems like a nightmare rehash of the various flavors of N22 post-NICE.

That's more conplicated than it should be. You can have one branch be the LTD, and the other be the non-stop bus.  Such would run it non-stop between Francis Lewis Blvd and Kew Gardens. The LTD can run every 5-6 minutes like the local, while the non-stop bus would run every 7-10 minutes. To preserve as many connections as possible, in such a scenario, I would have the LIJ branch be the LTD.

Union Turnpike needs more buses during the rush anyways, so I'm not concerned with overserving the corridor. 

(Should go without saying, but this would only be done rush hours in the peak direction)

Edited August 15, 2019 by BM5 via Woodhaven