Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's tricky.

Alternatively, you could move the changeover point west to SJU, to the point where

- All stops to Springfield

- LTD to Utopia, local to Glen Oaks

- Express to Utopia, LTD to Springfield, local east to LIJ

The more I think about this proposal though, the more it seems like a nightmare rehash of the various flavors of N22 post-NICE.

Quite honestly, the epic fail that was the n22L came to mind, upon reading this suggestion......

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That's more conplicated than it should be. You can have one branch be the LTD, and the other be the non-stop bus.  Such would run it non-stop between Francis Lewis Blvd and Kew Gardens. The LTD can run every 5-6 minutes like the local, while the non-stop bus would run every 7-10 minutes. To preserve as many connections as possible, in such a scenario, I would have the LIJ branch be the LTD.

Union Turnpike needs more buses during the rush anyways, so I'm not concerned with overserving the corridor. 

(Should go without saying, but this would only be done rush hours in the peak direction)

I'll just say this....

You say Union Tpke. needs more BPH during the rush, yet you'd implement some of those BPH to serve that much less people? Why would you not have more of those extra BPH that would be added to the route in any benevolent scenario, benefit more of the riders along the route... Having added service run as commuter locals on any of its trips along the route, is making things more complicated than it needs be....

The longer distance riders taking Q46's to the subway in the AM & from the subway in the PM simply need more service (there's even one nitwit misfit going around making YT videos, lying about QV's competency in process, about how piss-poor service to/from LIJ is), before we start talking about buses skipping entire swathes of Union Tpke before hitting the subway.... Let's try to put things into perspective here..... The numbers (riders) isn't in the favor of starting up a service running nonstop to Springfield, or (as you mention here) Francis Lewis.....

Edited August 15, 2019 by B35 via Church

[Gotham Bus Co.]

A bus operator on the Q26 is announcing that the route will be eliminated next year and become part of a Q27 SBS. Does anyone know whether that's a definitive plan or just a rumor?

[Lex]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite honestly, the epic fail that was the n22L came to mind, upon reading this suggestion......

I'll just say this....

You say Union Tpke. needs more BPH during the rush, yet you'd implement some of those BPH to serve that much less people? Why would you not have more of those extra BPH that would be added to the route in any benevolent scenario, benefit more of the riders along the route... Having added service run as commuter locals on any of its trips along the route, is making things more complicated than it needs be....

The longer distance riders taking Q46's to the subway in the AM & from the subway in the PM simply need more service (there's even one nitwit misfit going around making YT videos, lying about QV's competency in process, about how piss-poor service to/from LIJ is), before we start talking about buses skipping entire swathes of Union Tpke before hitting the subway.... Let's try to put things into perspective here..... The numbers (riders) isn't in the favor of starting up a service running nonstop to Springfield, or (as you mention here) Francis Lewis.....

If only we could get artics on the route at 24+ bph...

Seriously, if the only time I ever rode the Q46 (on a summer weekend with no subway service east of Forest Hills!) is any indication, that route needs more trips and artics.

[MysteriousBtrain]

50 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

A bus operator on the Q26 is announcing that the route will be eliminated next year and become part of a Q27 SBS. Does anyone know whether that's a definitive plan or just a rumor?

Could be announced as part of the Queens bus network redesign.

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

A bus operator on the Q26 is announcing that the route will be eliminated next year and become part of a Q27 SBS. Does anyone know whether that's a definitive plan or just a rumor?

SBS is on hold. Get some iodized sodium chloride.

[Union Tpke]

20 minutes ago, Lex said:

If only we could get artics on the route at 24+ bph...

Seriously, if the only time I ever rode the Q46 (on a summer weekend with no subway service east of Forest Hills!) is any indication, that route needs more trips and artics.

The buses are ridiculously crowded, buses bunch, LTD service is needed toward KG in the PM, some stops need to be consolidated, bus lanes are needed, cars need to be kept out of the terminal in KG, among other things.

[Mtatransit]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The longer distance riders taking Q46's to the subway in the AM & from the subway in the PM simply need more service (there's even one nitwit misfit going around making YT videos, lying about QV's competency in process, about how piss-poor service to/from LIJ is), before we start talking about buses skipping entire swathes of Union Tpke before hitting the subway.... Let's try to put things into perspective here..... The numbers (riders) isn't in the favor of starting up a service running nonstop to Springfield, or (as you mention here) Francis Lewis.....

I do think that the riders could benefit from an non- stop bus along Union tpk. there is simply too many people short riding the bus between Union Turnipke Subway and that hospital over there by Parsons drastically slowing down service. The limited buses in my opinion should make no stops between the subway station and probably Utopia Parkway and to simply run more Springfield Blvd local.

There is a risk, in that MTA will simply cut service to the outer portion of the bus route due to the lower ridership on these limited non-stops.

56 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

The buses are ridiculously crowded, buses bunch, LTD service is needed toward KG in the PM, some stops need to be consolidated, bus lanes are needed, cars need to be kept out of the terminal in KG, among other things.

The terminal in Kew Garden is terrible.  There is three (full) lines wrapping around the subway station differentiating the different Q46's (Glen Oak, Springfield locals, LIJ). The thing is, most people could take either bus, so when the buses don't come as planned there is a mad scramble for the other line. The stop placement over there is ironic in that it is basically designed to differentiate the passengers making it easier to operate say an express portion.

They really need to move the stop too. the buses get stuck in traffic on Queens blvd trying to turn onto Union Tpk. I would suggest moving the pick up bus stop on GCT near the first Q46 bus stop after the subway station

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Mtatransit

[Union Tpke]

1 minute ago, Mtatransit said:

They really need to move the stop too. the buses get stuck in traffic on Queens blvd trying to turn onto Union Tpk. I would suggest moving the pick up bus stop on GCT near the first Q46 bus stop after the subway station

 

So you want to make the 78th Avenue mezzanine as barren as a wasteland, and you want to overcrowd the 80th Road mezzanine, which is already packed by riders who literally run to and from the Q10. I don't see that happening elsewhere. There is not enough room at the stop, you will disrupt traffic, there is less entrance capacity, you will hurt the businesses near the bus stops, and getting buses from the drop off terminal to the pick up terminal will be a mess.

[Mtatransit]

8 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

So you want to make the 78th Avenue mezzanine as barren as a wasteland, and you want to overcrowd the 80th Road mezzanine, which is already packed by riders who literally run to and from the Q10. I don't see that happening elsewhere. There is not enough room at the stop, you will disrupt traffic, there is less entrance capacity, you will hurt the businesses near the bus stops, and getting buses from the drop off terminal to the pick up terminal will be a mess.

I mean the only difference in moving the pick up spot, is that buses will drive out of service from the drop off point. Essentially, I'm trying to save passengers time dealing with the traffic on Queens Blvd.

I would argue that there is enough space at the new pick up area if buses don't double park by eliminating one of the parking lanes. 

 

[bobtehpanda]

IIRC the glass wall by Kew Gardens interchange used to be an inline bus stop a very long time ago. But with how many buses are now needed that'd probably be inadvisable.

[Union Tpke]

7 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

IIRC the glass wall by Kew Gardens interchange used to be an inline bus stop a very long time ago. But with how many buses are now needed that'd probably be inadvisable.

It was never used for buses. It was used for drop-offs..

[NewFlyer 230]

9 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

IIRC the glass wall by Kew Gardens interchange used to be an inline bus stop a very long time ago. But with how many buses are now needed that'd probably be inadvisable.

The reason why they stopped using that entrance is because it caused congestion, so I don’t think they will ever open it again. What I noticed is that the closed entrance has a sign with the station name on it and the trains that serve the stations just like any other subway stop in the system. So I wonder if at one point in time the  considered opening it again. 

[B35 via Church]

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I do think that the riders could benefit from an non- stop bus along Union tpk. there is simply too many people short riding the bus between Union Turnipke Subway and that hospital over there by Parsons drastically slowing down service. The limited buses in my opinion should make no stops between the subway station and probably Utopia Parkway and to simply run more Springfield Blvd local.

There is a risk, in that MTA will simply cut service to the outer portion of the bus route due to the lower ridership on these limited non-stops.

As I see it, you don't quell too many people taking a bus for short distances from a subway station by creating trips on that route that would have long/significant non-stop portions.... Springfield & Francis Lewis were separately mentioned as cutoff points.... And to top it off, (especially) when I see two separate posts on here [bringing up service via GCP] & [having 6-8 whole buses per hour (as added service on the Q46 route) doing this bypassing during the rush], I start to question if I just waltzed into bizarro land or something...

The question AFAIC isn't if the riders that would stand to benefit from It, would benefit from it - It's how many riders along the whole route from the subway to LIJ would stand to benefit from running such a service pattern.... I'm looking at it more from a ridership distribution standpoint, more than I am a (commuting time, with respect to distance) standpoint....

[bobtehpanda]

7 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

It was never used for buses. It was used for drop-offs..

Wikipedia cites this Forgotten NY article to say that it was used by both autos and buses.

4 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The reason why they stopped using that entrance is because it caused congestion, so I don’t think they will ever open it again. What I noticed is that the closed entrance has a sign with the station name on it and the trains that serve the stations just like any other subway stop in the system. So I wonder if at one point in time the  considered opening it again. 

Looking at the layout of the area, I don't think that area of Union Turnpike needs all those lanes through the interchange.

It would be pretty neat if they made the Union Turnpike section of the underpass bus only and converted it into a fare-paid bus transfer, the same way that Rockaway Parkway works. If you made the Q10 and Q46 an LRT that would certainly work for the purpose.

[Union Tpke]

1 minute ago, bobtehpanda said:

Wikipedia cites this Forgotten NY article to say that it was used by both autos and buses.

Looking at the layout of the area, I don't think that area of Union Turnpike needs all those lanes through the interchange.

It would be pretty neat if they made the Union Turnpike section of the underpass bus only and converted it into a fare-paid bus transfer, the same way that Rockaway Parkway works. If you made the Q10 and Q46 an LRT that would certainly work for the purpose.

That is why I don't cite Forgotten NY for Wikipedia. Don't get me wrong, it is one of my favorite websites, but some information is wrong. What bus would run there? No bus has ever run on Union Turnpike from the north side of the Boulevard to the south side. The Q46 always ended at Kew Gardens. While that would be nice, there is no way to do that without taking a lane as the lane is not wide enough.

[bobtehpanda]

24 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

That is why I don't cite Forgotten NY for Wikipedia. Don't get me wrong, it is one of my favorite websites, but some information is wrong. What bus would run there? No bus has ever run on Union Turnpike from the north side of the Boulevard to the south side. The Q46 always ended at Kew Gardens. While that would be nice, there is no way to do that without taking a lane as the lane is not wide enough.

Which is why I said

Quote

Looking at the layout of the area, I don't think that area of Union Turnpike needs all those lanes through the interchange.

 

[Union Tpke]

22 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Which is why I said

 

You would limit to one lane. I could care less about drivers and would tear down the entire Kew Gardens Interchange if it were up to me, but I don't know how you politically get that through. Where would buses terminate?

[Axis]

On 8/10/2019 at 12:02 AM, IAlam said:

Queens bus routes never feel like they get the service they need. There a very few number of lines that get the amount of buses that they actually need. The Q25/34/65 is a great example of that. Some of the lines I've seen for the buses especially Q27 are so long they go around the block. Compared to a lot of Brooklyn buses and Manhattan buses I've been on I've always been able to get a seat without much of a problem. 

I always felt like Queens bus routes are being punished for having a much lower turnover rate compared to their Manhattan/Brooklyn counterparts. Since people are usually only going to or from one place ridership appears to much lower even though the buses are full.

The Guy R Brewer corridor is a perfect example of both of these ideas in action simultaneously.

At the height of rush hour, you’ll see a good three or four Q111 buses pass by before a single Q113 or Q114 shows up. And even then, you best hope it’s using an artic & not an O7 (by which point nothing in life matters anymore).

Also, from what I’ve noticed over the past few months, traffic has been piling up severely around the Five Towns Shopping Center area during the daytime/afternoon rush, slowing down any & all Q113/Q114 buses that go through Rockaway Turnpike at that time (turning a seemingly innocent 40 minute trip between Jamaica & Lawrence into as much as an hour plus). You eventually end up with no-shows on the Jamaica-bound side towards the end of the afternoon/evening rush (usually about 6~8 PM). Makes me wonder what could somehow fix this...

Edited August 16, 2019 by Axis

[NewFlyer 230]

46 minutes ago, Axis said:

The Guy R Brewer corridor is a perfect example of both of these ideas in action simultaneously.

At the height of rush hour, you’ll see a good three or four Q111 buses pass by before a single Q113 or Q114 shows up. And even then, you best hope it’s using an artic & not an O7 (by which point nothing in life matters anymore).

Also, from what I’ve noticed over the past few months, traffic has been piling up severely around the Five Towns Shopping Center area during the daytime/afternoon rush, slowing down any & all Q113/Q114 buses that go through Rockaway Turnpike at that time (turning a seemingly innocent 40 minute trip between Jamaica & Lawrence into as much as an hour plus). You eventually end up with no-shows on the Jamaica-bound side towards the end of the afternoon/evening rush (usually about 6~8 PM). Makes me wonder what could somehow fix this...

The Q25/Q34 and Q65 suffer from traffic in the Jamaica and Flushing areas. Everyday you always get gaps in service, which causes buses to bunch up badly. I’ve seen 5 and 6 buses bunch up before and half of those buses could have easily been turned around. How the MTA can fix this is by planning accordingly. Have buses start at particular points, so service is not so much disrupted when gaps occur. 

[Mtatransit]

16 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The question AFAIC isn't if the riders that would stand to benefit from It, would benefit from it - It's how many riders along the whole route from the subway to LIJ would stand to benefit from running such a service pattern.... I'm looking at it more from a ridership distribution standpoint, more than I am a (commuting time, with respect to distance) standpoint....

Alot of riders seems to get off at Main St presumely to take the Q44. There seems to be decent turnover/boarding at Utopia. Honestly the Q46 LTDs could skip all the stops till 164th St to significantly speed up service for riders while also not impacting ridership significantly at the Main St/Parson Blvd stop. I would argue that riders from the subway are 50 percent on and 50 percent off at Utopia on the current Limited. Those needing the Q46 east of 164th could take the local which should be expanded. 

the local- express stop line will be 164th St to minimize impact. 

That stop at Kew garden will also get its stops cut down form the current three to two. Local to Springfield, and Limited to Glen Oaks/LIJ

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Alot of riders seems to get off at Main St presumely to take the Q44. There seems to be decent turnover/boarding at Utopia. Honestly the Q46 LTDs could skip all the stops till 164th St to significantly speed up service for riders while also not impacting ridership significantly at the Main St/Parson Blvd stop. I would argue that riders from the subway are 50 percent on and 50 percent off at Utopia on the current Limited. Those needing the Q46 east of 164th could take the local which should be expanded. 

the local- express stop line will be 164th St to minimize impact. 

That stop at Kew garden will also get its stops cut down form the current three to two. Local to Springfield, and Limited to Glen Oaks/LIJ

 

You would hear a lot of "this is discrimination because the bus passes by but doesn't stop for ME." People will see the bus and demand that it serve their stops. That's why the Limited has totally unnecessary stops at Bell (not enough riders) and at 150th (zero time savings over the local while slowing down other Limited passengers).

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Alot of riders seems to get off at Main St presumely to take the Q44. There seems to be decent turnover/boarding at Utopia. Honestly the Q46 LTDs could skip all the stops till 164th St to significantly speed up service for riders while also not impacting ridership significantly at the Main St/Parson Blvd stop. I would argue that riders from the subway are 50 percent on and 50 percent off at Utopia on the current Limited. Those needing the Q46 east of 164th could take the local which should be expanded. 

the local- express stop line will be 164th St to minimize impact. 

That stop at Kew garden will also get its stops cut down form the current three to two. Local to Springfield, and Limited to Glen Oaks/LIJ

Not that you have to, but you're slowly gravitating towards my stance... Your focus is on reconfiguring what the locals/LTD's do, over superimposing an unwarranted new layer of service along the route for a significant minority of riders....

The counter to what you're saying here would then be, that doesn't do enough for those that want faster service on the more eastern end of the route..... That's what this Q46 express (what I'm calling a commuter local) bit entails.... The more you try to reduce impact with any rendition of a Q46 trip that has some nonstop portion longer/broader than what the current LTD service offers, the less it does for said riders (on the more eastern end).....

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by B35 via Church

[NY1635]

7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Alot of riders seems to get off at Main St presumely to take the Q44. There seems to be decent turnover/boarding at Utopia. Honestly the Q46 LTDs could skip all the stops till 164th St to significantly speed up service for riders while also not impacting ridership significantly at the Main St/Parson Blvd stop. I would argue that riders from the subway are 50 percent on and 50 percent off at Utopia on the current Limited. Those needing the Q46 east of 164th could take the local which should be expanded. 

the local- express stop line will be 164th St to minimize impact. 

That stop at Kew garden will also get its stops cut down form the current three to two. Local to Springfield, and Limited to Glen Oaks/LIJ

 

A lot of riders on the Q46 tend to be getting on/off between 188th and the subway. East of 188th doesn't get much usage.

The only people who I can see benefitting from limited stop service on the Q46 are city residents working at LIJ, or city line residents. The former tends to drive around or use express bus service, the latter grumbles because the Q46 out LIJ looks slow in comparison to the n25 smoothly traveling along the Quadrangle. 

Between the Q46 and n25, the n25 gets more usage out of their among inter-Nassau commuters working at the Hospitals and traveling south to either Hemp. Turnpike to connect to the n6, or down, or Hillside Ave to catch the n22. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by NY1635

[B35 via Church]

40 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

A lot of riders on the Q46 tend to be getting on/off between 188th and the subway. East of 188th doesn't get much usage.

The only people who I can see benefitting from limited stop service on the Q46 are city residents working at LIJ, or city line residents. The former tends to drive around or use express bus service, the latter grumbles because the Q46 out LIJ looks slow in comparison to the n25 smoothly traveling along the Quadrangle. 

Between the Q46 and n25, the n25 gets more usage out of their among inter-Nassau commuters working at the Hospitals and traveling south to either Hemp. Turnpike to connect to the n6, or down, or Hillside Ave to catch the n22. 

An express Q46 from the subway to Springfield (meaning, catering to those that need the subway, east of Springfield) is too narrow a riderbase & from the subway to Francis Lewis wouldn't add that many more people on these suggested Q46 expresses, compared to Springfield..... I used to work at LIJ & used to do the whole Q46 from end to end bit & you're right, too large a majority are taking buses west of 188th to have buses running nonstop to some point well east of that.... Glen Oaks patrons are too busy driving or taking QM6's/36's to worry about bombarding on Q46's enough to support such a service pattern... It'd loom immaterial.....

As far as the Q46 vs. the n25 @ LIJ, I'd say it's a push; never definitively saw more or less people taking either over the other.... It is something to be said though that you even have people willing to a] backtrack, b] put up w/ n25 service, and c] xfer to another NICE bus route, to get to the subway.....

[Mtatransit]

On 8/17/2019 at 8:36 AM, B35 via Church said:

Not that you have to, but you're slowly gravitating towards my stance... Your focus is on reconfiguring what the locals/LTD's do, over superimposing an unwarranted new layer of service along the route for a significant minority of riders....

The counter to what you're saying here would then be, that doesn't do enough for those that want faster service on the more eastern end of the route..... That's what this Q46 express (what I'm calling a commuter local) bit entails.... The more you try to reduce impact with any rendition of a Q46 trip that has some nonstop portion longer/broader than what the current LTD service offers, the less it does for said riders (on the more eastern end).....

 

My fear is that if we move the non-stop portion too far east, MTA will cut buses out to LIJ/Glen Oak negating any savings those commuter will save, so i think the elimination of a few limited stops is a fair trade off overall.