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Q43LTD

Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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TBH Traveling from the far east parts of Queens to the subway can sometimes be as long as a subway journey in itself. Trips to the subway from the eastern part of the boro take way too long. Having to stop at every stop along at way discourages people further down the line from using it. The alternative for those who live near the border is to take a NICE bus instead, but NICE buses barely save much time over the NYCT equivalent. The best time saving I tend to get are about 3-5 minutes. AT lot of times I get passed by the NYCT equivalent. While based off the thread the Q46 might not be the best of the options. IMO there are other areas with enough demand where it would be reasonable to run an express service. It's absurd to me the most of NE queens doesn't even have proper limited service. Brooklyn has the both the B41 LTD and the B103 running a similar route and the 103 tend to get a good load on it's little express portion. Destinations like Queens Village and Bayside could greatly benefit from having a direct service to their respective transit hubs. Even if it's a peak directions bare minimum service it's still better than nothing.  

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11 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

My fear is that if we move the non-stop portion too far east, MTA will cut buses out to LIJ/Glen Oak negating any savings those commuter will save, so i think the elimination of a few limited stops is a fair trade off overall.

Which is why, at the bare minimum, if these nonstop trips wouldn't come as part of service additions (compared to converting some current amt. of trips on the Q46 to doing as such), then the whole idea should be thrown completely out the window....

10 hours ago, IAlam said:

TBH Traveling from the far east parts of Queens to the subway can sometimes be as long as a subway journey in itself. Trips to the subway from the eastern part of the boro take way too long. Having to stop at every stop along at way discourages people further down the line from using it. The alternative for those who live near the border is to take a NICE bus instead, but NICE buses barely save much time over the NYCT equivalent. The best time saving I tend to get are about 3-5 minutes. AT lot of times I get passed by the NYCT equivalent. While based off the thread the Q46 might not be the best of the options. IMO there are other areas with enough demand where it would be reasonable to run an express service. It's absurd to me the most of NE queens doesn't even have proper limited service. Brooklyn has the both the B41 LTD and the B103 running a similar route and the 103 tend to get a good load on it's little express portion. Destinations like Queens Village and Bayside could greatly benefit from having a direct service to their respective transit hubs. Even if it's a peak directions bare minimum service it's still better than nothing.  

That sounds like the Q12 vs. the n20 you're describing.... Things are significantly different along Hillside w/ the Q43 vs. the n22...

Throughout this whole discussion, I was saying to myself, the Q43 garners more usage in Queens the more east you pan along.... Another way of saying that is, ridership on the Q43 is more spread out than the Q46 & there's a higher concentration of riders in far east Queens on the Q43 over it..... I'd like to see how a peak direction nonstop Q43 would perform from 179th to Springfield (meaning, making the current amt. of stops b/w [LIRR Jamaica & 179th subway] & [Springfield, and points east]), before I'd want to see how a nonstop Q46 of sorts would perform.... Thing with the Q46/Union Tpke. is, more people are inclined to take the express bus, over the local bus to the subway from areas very far east along it..... When QM6's/36's are more plentiful compared to x68's, that sort of thing is inevitable....

I wouldn't give the B41 LTD much praise at all & the B103 should perhaps have more people riding directly Downtown..... Of course, with Flatbush av being what it is & I don't even have to mention the (never-ending construction on the) Gowanus, I can understand why you'd get the masses ditching for the subway at the Junction.... 3rd av. in the morning isn't much of a picnic either....

 

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11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Throughout this whole discussion, I was saying to myself, the Q43 garners more usage in Queens the more east you pan along.... Another way of saying that is, ridership on the Q43 is more spread out than the Q46 & there's a higher concentration of riders in far east Queens on the Q43 over it..... I'd like to see how a peak direction nonstop Q43 would perform from 179th to Springfield (meaning, making the current amt. of stops b/w [LIRR Jamaica & 179th subway] & [Springfield, and points east]), before I'd want to see how a nonstop Q46 of sorts would perform.... Thing with the Q46/Union Tpke. is, more people are inclined to take the express bus, over the local bus to the subway from areas very far east along it..... When QM6's/36's are more plentiful compared to x68's, that sort of thing is inevitable....

I wouldn't give the B41 LTD much praise at all & the B103 should perhaps have more people riding directly Downtown..... Of course, with Flatbush av being what it is & I don't even have to mention the (never-ending construction on the) Gowanus, I can understand why you'd get the masses ditching for the subway at the Junction.... 3rd av. in the morning isn't much of a picnic either....

 

I would exactly do a limited zone version of the Q43. If I had to plan a route would be hard to say exactly where the route should go, but for one it should be a new route independent of others. The route should not be 100% following another route then running express to the station. I still think the bus should go to Union Turnpike station and take the GCP as to be separated from other bus lines. But ultimately I'd want it to service Hillside & Springfield. Possibly either looping back to Hillside via Little Neck Pkwy. Another idea would be to send it all the way to Cambria Heights where the Q27 terminates. But for the most part somewhere in that general area serving areas covered by the Q27, Q36, & Q43.

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10 hours ago, IAlam said:

I would exactly do a limited zone version of the Q43.

If I had to plan a route would be hard to say exactly where the route should go, but for one it should be a new route independent of others. The route should not be 100% following another route then running express to the station. I still think the bus should go to Union Turnpike station and take the GCP as to be separated from other bus lines. But ultimately I'd want it to service Hillside & Springfield. Possibly either looping back to Hillside via Little Neck Pkwy. Another idea would be to send it all the way to Cambria Heights where the Q27 terminates. But for the most part somewhere in that general area serving areas covered by the Q27, Q36, & Q43.

Nah, this is simply being different for the sake of being different....

GCP or not, there is no good reason riders in that pocket of Queens should be dragged all the way to Kew Gardens subway, when 179th is more proximate....

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On 8/20/2019 at 5:51 AM, B35 via Church said:

Nah, this is simply being different for the sake of being different....

GCP or not, there is no good reason riders in that pocket of Queens should be dragged all the way to Kew Gardens subway, when 179th is more proximate....

If the bus lanes actually worked on Hillside, I would agree.

*In practice*, Q46 vs Q43 in Eastern Queens can be a wash even if you're closer to the Q43, because Hillside west of Francis Lewis or the Clearview is an absolute crapshoot.

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On 8/16/2019 at 7:02 PM, NewFlyer 230 said:

The Q25/Q34 and Q65 suffer from traffic in the Jamaica and Flushing areas. Everyday you always get gaps in service, which causes buses to bunch up badly. I’ve seen 5 and 6 buses bunch up before and half of those buses could have easily been turned around. How the MTA can fix this is by planning accordingly. Have buses start at particular points, so service is not so much disrupted when gaps occur. 

I think having a lot more Q111 buses start/end at Peninsula Boulevard & Rockaway Turnpike would be a good start to “solving” this mess with the Q113/Q114.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Axis said:

I think having a lot more Q111 buses start/end at Peninsula Boulevard & Rockaway Turnpike would be a good start to “solving” this mess with the Q113/Q114.

It would be better to actually have the Q113/Q114 run on time. The Q111 is not necessary. Forget the fact that none of the bus stops in Nassau County are marked, the additional runtime needed (the Cedarhurst segment adds 17 minutes) would be unnecessary for a service which would garner very few riders headed specifically to the very end of the route.

Not only that, but Woodmere/North Woodmore would likely be against such an addition of service. People in that look at you with two heads just for walking down the sidewalk (or waiting for a light). Imagine the what would happen when they find out that more than 2 buses per day end up traveling up and down Rosedale Road (i.e: bringing "those people" into "their" neighborhood). 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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43 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

It would be better to actually have the Q113/Q114 run on time. The Q111 is not necessary. Forget the fact that none of the bus stops in Nassau County are marked, the additional runtime needed (the Cedarhurst segment adds 17 minutes) would be unnecessary for a service which would garner very few riders headed specifically to the very end of the route.

Not only that, but Woodmere/North Woodmore would likely be against such an addition of service. People in that look at you with two heads just for walking down the sidewalk (or waiting for a light). Imagine the what would happen when they find out that more than 2 buses per day end up traveling up and down Rosedale Road (i.e: bringing "those people" into "their" neighborhood). 

That particular stretch of the route has bothered me for a while. Between the timing for the trips serving Cedarhurst and the number of trips per direction, it seems more like it was created for the sake of creating it, as opposed to being there to actually address some kind of need (much like the Q89, though that route could've actually been somewhat useful, particularly when the express buses weren't running). Either increase service on that stretch and make it more regular (and more useful) or can it, but don't leave it in its current form.

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2 minutes ago, Lex said:

That particular stretch of the route has bothered me for a while. Between the timing for the trips serving Cedarhurst and the number of trips per direction, it seems more like it was created for the sake of creating it, as opposed to being there to actually address some kind of need (much like the Q89, though that route could've actually been somewhat useful, particularly when the express buses weren't running). Either increase service on that stretch and make it more regular (and more useful) or can it, but don't leave it in its current form.

I believe those 2 Q111 trips serving Cedarhurst are mostly for school trips. I don't know if they're meant for the Hebrew schools in the area, or for the Rosedale residents who enroll their kids at a South Valley Stream Schools. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Lex said:

That particular stretch of the route has bothered me for a while. Between the timing for the trips serving Cedarhurst and the number of trips per direction, it seems more like it was created for the sake of creating it, as opposed to being there to actually address some kind of need (much like the Q89, though that route could've actually been somewhat useful, particularly when the express buses weren't running). Either increase service on that stretch and make it more regular (and more useful) or can it, but don't leave it in its current form.

 

Just now, NY1635 said:

I believe those 2 Q111 trips serving Cedarhurst are mostly for school trips. I don't know if they're meant for the Hebrew schools in the area, or for the Rosedale residents who enroll their kids at a South Valley Stream Schools. 

 

They're actually not. That might have been the case back then, but the ridership may have changed. Back then there were 4(+?) trips to and from Cedarhurst every day. 

There are people who use those particular buses. I would believe that it's used by people who work in the Cedarhurst area as housekeepers, maids, or home health aids. 

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4 hours ago, Axis said:

I think having a lot more Q111 buses start/end at Peninsula Boulevard & Rockaway Turnpike would be a good start to “solving” this mess with the Q113/Q114.

People would still gravitate towards the 113/114, because, express-a-holicism, to say the least.....

Trying to decrease dwell times/runtime on the 113/114 by increasing the runtime of more 111 trips, solves much of nothing.....

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6 hours ago, Axis said:

I think having a lot more Q111 buses start/end at Peninsula Boulevard & Rockaway Turnpike would be a good start to “solving” this mess with the Q113/Q114.

Actually the Q111 has no business being out there on Peninsula Blvd. I’m surprised they still have a trip that goes to and from there still. I wonder why that service existed to begin with. The stops aren’t even marked so I don’t even see how buses even get utilized out there. 
 

The best way to fix the Q113/114 is by having better dispatching and buses that actually leave on time.  

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On 8/20/2019 at 8:51 AM, B35 via Church said:

Nah, this is simply being different for the sake of being different....

GCP or not, there is no good reason riders in that pocket of Queens should be dragged all the way to Kew Gardens subway, when 179th is more proximate....

Going through Jamaica takes a lot of time but due to the fact that the trains run local after Forest Hills and the fact there’s a lot of congestion in the area. Going to Kew Gardens allows passengers to take both the (E) and the (F) instead of one. Additionally it’s closer to the start of the express portion. The GCP also tends to move a lot better during peak hours compared to other highways in the areas.

On 8/21/2019 at 10:16 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

They're actually not. That might have been the case back then, but the ridership may have changed. Back then there were 4(+?) trips to and from Cedarhurst every day. 

There are people who use those particular buses. I would believe that it's used by people who work in the Cedarhurst area as housekeepers, maids, or home health aids. 

I ended up hopping on the Cedarhust bus one day by chance. I was trying to take it to the X63 that day and got of close to the normal terminal. I was surprised to see how many people were still on the bus at that point. That morning bus seem to have a lot of workers on it. I just had no clue where they were going.

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13 hours ago, IAlam said:

Going through Jamaica takes a lot of time but due to the fact that the trains run local after Forest Hills and the fact there’s a lot of congestion in the area. Going to Kew Gardens allows passengers to take both the (E) and the (F) instead of one. Additionally it’s closer to the start of the express portion. The GCP also tends to move a lot better during peak hours compared to other highways in the areas.

None of this nullifies how much further off Kew Gardens is from 179th.

You're not going to get too many people out there in SE Queens &/or far-eastern Queens to subscribe to traveling a further distance on a local bus, to catch the same train, to then have to battle with/jockey for position on a train with a whole 'nother host of commuters coming from other neighborhoods (Q10/37/46) that use that same subway station to get to Manhattan....

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So I've been thinking of the current Q31 routing and have thought of restructuring it as follows:

1.) No changes will be made to the existing route between Archer Avenue/Sutphin Boulevard and Utopia Parkway/Hollis Court Boulevard.

2.) Discontinue the section utilizing 47th/48th Avenues. Adjust the route to have it continue on Utopia Parkway until Northern Boulevard.

3.) Right turn onto Northern Boulevard. (Serving Northern Boulevard will stimulate ridership on the Q31. The residential streets along and near 47th/48th Avenues that it currently travels on are already dominated by the Q27.)

4.) Left turn onto Bell Boulevard.(Preserved Q31 section)

5.) Left turn onto 35th Avenue. (Preserved Q31 section)

6.) Right turn onto Corporal Kennedy Street. (Access to Bayside High School retained.)

7.) Upon reaching Corporal Kennedy Street/32nd Avenue, the Q31 will be consolidated with the existing Q28 route.

8.) Route ends where the current Q28 terminates at 23rd Avenue/Bell Boulevard. (A new connection to the Bay Terrace Mall created for Q31 passengers.)

My goal is to boost ridership on the Q31 route by attempting to have it serve more ground in the proximity of both local and commercial businesses without having it deviate too far from it's primary focus of Bayside. This experimental concept might work by taking advantage of Northern Boulevard and the Bay Terrace Mall. After seeing next to no passengers aboard Q31's I've been on over the past few years when reaching the 47th/48th Avenues and/or 32nd Avenue sections, I knew something had to give in sight of improving ridership generation on the route...

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:09 PM, B35 via Church said:

None of this nullifies how much further off Kew Gardens is from 179th.

You're not going to get too many people out there in SE Queens &/or far-eastern Queens to subscribe to traveling a further distance on a local bus, to catch the same train, to then have to battle with/jockey for position on a train with a whole 'nother host of commuters coming from other neighborhoods (Q10/37/46) that use that same subway station to get to Manhattan....

And, you won't get a seat.

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6 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

So I've been thinking of the current Q31 routing and have thought of restructuring it as follows:

1.) No changes will be made to the existing route between Archer Avenue/Sutphin Boulevard and Utopia Parkway/Hollis Court Boulevard.

2.) Discontinue the section utilizing 47th/48th Avenues. Adjust the route to have it continue on Utopia Parkway until Northern Boulevard.

3.) Right turn onto Northern Boulevard. (Serving Northern Boulevard will stimulate ridership on the Q31. The residential streets along and near 47th/48th Avenues that it currently travels on are already dominated by the Q27.)

4.) Left turn onto Bell Boulevard.(Preserved Q31 section)

5.) Left turn onto 35th Avenue. (Preserved Q31 section)

6.) Right turn onto Corporal Kennedy Street. (Access to Bayside High School retained.)

7.) Upon reaching Corporal Kennedy Street/32nd Avenue, the Q31 will be consolidated with the existing Q28 route.

8.) Route ends where the current Q28 terminates at 23rd Avenue/Bell Boulevard. (A new connection to the Bay Terrace Mall created for Q31 passengers.)

My goal is to boost ridership on the Q31 route by attempting to have it serve more ground in the proximity of both local and commercial businesses without having it deviate too far from it's primary focus of Bayside. This experimental concept might work by taking advantage of Northern Boulevard and the Bay Terrace Mall. After seeing next to no passengers aboard Q31's I've been on over the past few years when reaching the 47th/48th Avenues and/or 32nd Avenue sections, I knew something had to give in sight of improving ridership generation on the route...

 

Why not just use Corporal Kennedy directly from Northern to Bay Terrace?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

And, you won't get a seat.

That's exactly my point.

A cool ride on the GCP isn't worth relinquishing that!

Edited by B35 via Church

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11 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Why not just use Corporal Kennedy directly from Northern to Bay Terrace?

Loses access to the Bayside LIRR station

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Loses access to the Bayside LIRR station

 

Q13 still provides that access. 

 

In fact, I will amend my suggestion:

 

  • Q31 becomes a "Utopia Crosstown " via current route into Utopia, right Crocheron (serves LIRR at Auburndale), left Francis Lewis, right Utopia, to Le Havre (166th & Powells Cove). 

 

  • New "Springfield Blvd Crosstown" from Bay Terrace via Q28 into Corporal Kennedy, then stay on Corporal Kennedy, left 35th Avenue, right Bell, left Northern, right 233rd Street, into Cloverdale, right 56th Avenue (serves QCC), left Springfield, right Merrick, left Farmers, right 137th Avenue, to Brewer. (Takes over south half of Q27.) 

 

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20 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

My goal is to boost ridership on the Q31 route by attempting to have it serve more ground in the proximity of both local and commercial businesses without having it deviate too far from it's primary focus of Bayside. This experimental concept might work by taking advantage of Northern Boulevard and the Bay Terrace Mall. After seeing next to no passengers aboard Q31's I've been on over the past few years when reaching the 47th/48th Avenues and/or 32nd Avenue sections, I knew something had to give in sight of improving ridership generation on the route...

The primary focus being Bayside is a large part of the problem.... I had an old idea that more or less entailed your suggestion here.... I'm of the belief now that the more it serves Utopia, the more of a detriment it is to the route.... That's why I'd propose making it less of a supplement to the Q30 (as in, turning it off at Union Tpke) & have something else serve that part of Utopia....

Having it running along a part of Northern would help, but I wouldn't just stop at that....

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Posted (edited)
On 8/22/2019 at 1:43 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

The best way to fix the Q113/114 is by having better dispatching and buses that actually leave on time.  

No amount of dispatching is going to stop hundreds of vehicles from gridlocking Rockaway Turnpike & Nassau Expressway everyday, and thus ruining the Q113/114 regardless.

Bus lanes on Rockaway Boulevard/Turnpike? Maybe...? But I doubt it’d ever happen or help...

Edited by Axis

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On 8/17/2019 at 9:53 AM, B35 via Church said:

An express Q46 from the subway to Springfield (meaning, catering to those that need the subway, east of Springfield) is too narrow a riderbase & from the subway to Francis Lewis wouldn't add that many more people on these suggested Q46 expresses, compared to Springfield..... I used to work at LIJ & used to do the whole Q46 from end to end bit & you're right, too large a majority are taking buses west of 188th to have buses running nonstop to some point well east of that.... Glen Oaks patrons are too busy driving or taking QM6's/36's to worry about bombarding on Q46's enough to support such a service pattern... It'd loom immaterial.....

As far as the Q46 vs. the n25 @ LIJ, I'd say it's a push; never definitively saw more or less people taking either over the other.... It is something to be said though that you even have people willing to a] backtrack, b] put up w/ n25 service, and c] xfer to another NICE bus route, to get to the subway.....

I do wonder how well the n26 would be able to compete with the n25 & Q46 if it were [hypothetically] buffed to full-time service...

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2 hours ago, Axis said:

I do wonder how well the n26 would be able to compete with the n25 & Q46 if it were [hypothetically] buffed to full-time service...

N26 serves a different market than most riders on the Q46 to/from the subway. The n26 ‘s primary riderbase seems to come primarily from LIJ and a few stops north of that. 

With that I think the extra buses used on the n26 if it were to be full time should be used on the n25 to boost that route instead. 

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On 8/26/2019 at 4:39 PM, Mtatransit said:

N26 serves a different market than most riders on the Q46 to/from the subway. The n26 ‘s primary riderbase seems to come primarily from LIJ and a few stops north of that. 

With that I think the extra buses used on the n26 if it were to be full time should be used on the n25 to boost that route instead. 

The n26 is mainly used by city residents working at the LIJ, North Shore, and The children's hospital at the Quadrangle. It doesn't have the ridership for full time because it runs closed door in Queens. City Line Residents will often take the n22 over the n26 if the Q43 laying over at 268th Street hasn't gone to into service yet. 

 

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