Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[bobtehpanda]

Shower thought: would it be net positive or net negative if the Q17 and Q88 swapped their routes south/east of 188th?

From personal experience I feel like Q17 more closely matches where Fresh Meadows riders are trying to go. But I could also be wrong.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Shower thought: would it be net positive or net negative if the Q17 and Q88 swapped their routes south/east of 188th?

From personal experience I feel like Q17 more closely matches where Fresh Meadows riders are trying to go. But I could also be wrong.

I wouldn't go about doing it, but for discussion's sake, I'd say it's a net positive (emphasis on the net)...

I haven't been a proponent of the Q88 to Queens Village anyway & I don't see it mattering much (in terms of total ridership) if the Q88 or the Q17 serves 188th, on down to Jamaica; a [QCM - Fresh Meadows (HHE/188th)] route would flourish just as much as a [Flushing - Fresh Meadows (HHE/188th)] route....

Putting it another way, I'd see it being less inefficient if the Q17 took the Q88's course to LIRR QV, compared to the waste of mileage I think the current Q88 is from end-to-end.....

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by B35 via Church

[bobtehpanda]

47 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I wouldn't go about doing it, but for discussion's sake, I'd say it's a net positive (emphasis on the net)...

I haven't been a proponent of the Q88 to Queens Village anyway & I don't see it mattering much (in terms of total ridership) if the Q88 or the Q17 serves 188th, on down to Jamaica; a [QCM - Fresh Meadows (HHE/188th)] route would flourish just as much as a [Flushing - Fresh Meadows (HHE/188th)] route....

Putting it another way, I'd see it being less inefficient if the Q17 took the Q88's course to LIRR QV, compared to the waste of mileage I think the current Q88 is from end-to-end.....

 

Mhmm. Just a thought.

To me, Q17 also serves a lot of ridership generators on the Q88 going west/north (Queens College & associated educational facilities, shopping on 188th); the Q88 doesn't have much going for it other than QCM/Rego Park past where the Q17 splits. And to me, Flushing/Kissena is more of a ridership gen than QCM, particularly with Fresh Meadows being increasingly Asian.

On top of that, the Q17 short turns a lot at 188th already and the Q88 isn't exactly busy coming from QV. At the very least I think those Q17s would be useful going up 73rd to Springfield, and then you're basically spitting distance to Jamaica.

[Q43LTD]

Q17-Flushing-Queens Village LIRR via Harding/73

Q88-Elmhurst-Jamaica via Harding/Hillside

 

Let's see. Would both keep their hours of operations? Probably. I don't think it would work

[checkmatechamp13]

I generally like the way the proposed Queens bus redesign handled the Fresh Meadows area. The QT30/31/73 provide that area with a direct connection to Flushing, and the QT33 provides that area with a connection to Jamaica (and still connects Jamaica to QCC). And then there's the QT87 for those who need to go further west. 

[NewFlyer 230]

5 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Shower thought: would it be net positive or net negative if the Q17 and Q88 swapped their routes south/east of 188th?

From personal experience I feel like Q17 more closely matches where Fresh Meadows riders are trying to go. But I could also be wrong.

I was thinking of something similar to this the other day.

I was thinking of the Q17 going from Flushing Main Street to either Springfield Blvd/73rd Ave or Oakland Gardens 230th where the the Q17 use to end. I would not send it down Springfield though, the Q27 does that and frequent enough. However I would still keep the Fresh Meadows short turn.

However instead of the Q88 going down 188th street I was thinking it would continue on the Horace Harding Expressway. As far as what to do with the Q30 past Utopia & Horace Harding I don’t know and plus something would have to serve 188th street too. 

[B35 via Church]

11 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Mhmm. Just a thought.

To me, Q17 also serves a lot of ridership generators on the Q88 going west/north (Queens College & associated educational facilities, shopping on 188th); the Q88 doesn't have much going for it other than QCM/Rego Park past where the Q17 splits. And to me, Flushing/Kissena is more of a ridership gen than QCM, particularly with Fresh Meadows being increasingly Asian.

On top of that, the Q17 short turns a lot at 188th already and the Q88 isn't exactly busy coming from QV. At the very least I think those Q17s would be useful going up 73rd to Springfield, and then you're basically spitting distance to Jamaica.

I know, which is why I say I don't see it mattering much if a portion of the [Q17 continued running between Jamaica & HHE/Kissena] vs. a hypothetical [Q88 running between Jamaica & HHE/Kissena]..... It's one reason why I favor the proposed QT12 routing (QCM to QCC via HHE & Springfield); one of the better proposals in the entire plan AFAIC....

For all I care, at minimum, the Q17 short turns should encompass the full route... The southern portion of the thing can be replaced with a Q75 reversion....  The proposed QT87 (via 73rd) to QB is another good concept.... I'm more honed in on doing away with the Q88 as is, than I am anything involving the Q17.... The eastern portion of the Q88 doesn't do much to enhance the route....

8 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Q17-Flushing-Queens Village LIRR via Harding/73

Q88-Elmhurst-Jamaica via Harding/Hillside

 

Let's see. Would both keep their hours of operations? Probably. I don't think it would work

Actually, yes (I do think they would) - with the minor stipulation being that a Q88 of sorts would stop running past Fresh Meadows after around 9pm or so.... The last handful of trips of the night probably wouldn't be made to serve Flushing....

8 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I generally like the way the proposed Queens bus redesign handled the Fresh Meadows area. The QT30/31/73 provide that area with a direct connection to Flushing, and the QT33 provides that area with a connection to Jamaica (and still connects Jamaica to QCC). And then there's the QT87 for those who need to go further west. 

The Q31 is straight, but I think the QT30's reach is a little too narrow (wordplay totally unintentional there).... QT33 for those folks would amount to a (more useful) Q75 reversion.... I can see them appreciating the QT73 over the Q88 more... They'll definitely take advantage of direct Union Tpke service with the QT11... So yeah, I'd say Fresh Meadows (routing-wise) was an overall improvement.

6 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I was thinking of something similar to this the other day.

I was thinking of the Q17 going from Flushing Main Street to either Springfield Blvd/73rd Ave or Oakland Gardens 230th where the the Q17 use to end. I would not send it down Springfield though, the Q27 does that and frequent enough. However I would still keep the Fresh Meadows short turn.

However instead of the Q88 going down 188th street I was thinking it would continue on the Horace Harding Expressway. As far as what to do with the Q30 past Utopia & Horace Harding I don’t know and plus something would have to serve 188th street too. 

With the Q17 talking point, I don't quite get your concern; if you're talking about having Q17's take over the Q88 routing between [HHE/188th] & [Springfield/73rd], it wouldn't have to run down Springfield at all...

As for the Q88 point, IDK - how about shifting the Q30 to serving 188th (terminating at HHE)? There's nothing saying that the Q30 & Q31 have to remain coupled along Homelawn....

[aemoreira81]

For late night service, I have to wonder if some subway routes can be bustituted on a permanent basis, and to also discourage the homeless from being on the subway. For instance, in Queens:

 to Lefferts overnight...this could be covered by a shuttle bus instead. It would make all stops from Lefferts Boulevard to Rockaway Boulevard, and then nonstop to Grant Avenue (inbound drop-off, outbound pick-up) and then Euclid as the last stop.

 to Rockaway Park, from 10 PM to 5 AM (+1)...replace with an extended Q35. ADA service available on the Q35 via transfer at Flatbush Avenue/Brooklyn College , extended to Beach 67 Street/Arverne by the Sea overnight. (Alternative: transfer from the Lefferts Boulevard shuttle bus to the Q53 SBS.)

 and  to Jamaica Center---Jamaica Center is closed overnight. All service starts and ends at Sutphin/Archer instead, with trains cleaned out there. (Trains would then operate to Jamaica Center empty to relay.) All buses that operate to Jamaica Center between 12 AM to 5 AM would operate to Sutphin Boulevard instead. The Q83, Q111, and Q114 would then terminate overnight at Sutphin Boulevard  instead of Parsons Boulevard .

If some of this sounds a bit weird, it's to preserve ADA service and to head off a lawsuit on that front.

Also, for certain southeast Queens routes not operating 24/7, I would make the following changes on outbound trips (Jamaica departure):

Q42: Weekday trips after 7:20 operate only as far as the last passenger.

Q77: Weekday trips after 7:57 PM, Saturday trips after 7:40 PM, and the 9:55 PM departure are guaranteed to operate as far as Francis Lewis and Springfield Boulevards. After that point, trips will only operate as far as the last passenger.

Q84: Weeknight trips after 12:20 AM (+1), Saturday trips after 12 AM (+1), and Sunday trips after 12:15 AM (+1), are guaranteed to operate as far as 120 Avenue and Springfield Boulevard. After that point, trips will only operate as far as the last passenger.

These trips all pull in from the outbound end to return to Jamaica Depot. 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

For late night service, I have to wonder if some subway routes can be bustituted on a permanent basis, and to also discourage the homeless from being on the subway.

No, they can't.... And to sacrifice subway service for bus service (for the sake of displacing the homeless from the subway system to the city's streets) solves much of nothing.... What is wrong with you???

 

[checkmatechamp13]

@aemoreira81 Aside from the fact that most of these routes are likely to change during the redesign, what exactly would that accomplish? The bus operator still has to be paid as if they operated the full route, and in some areas the easiest place to turn around is at the terminal. 

[aemoreira81]

26 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

No, they can't.... And to sacrifice subway service for bus service (for the sake of displacing the homeless from the subway system to the city's streets) solves much of nothing.... What is wrong with you???

 

I'm of the stance that the homeless need to be booted from the city altogether, as a nuisance.

[B35 via Church]

50 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

I'm of the stance that the homeless need to be booted from the city altogether, as a nuisance.

With what methodology & on what grounds?

[Lex]

47 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

I'm of the stance that the homeless need to be booted from the city altogether, as a nuisance.

Do you even realize what you just did?

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

No, they can't.... And to sacrifice subway service for bus service (for the sake of displacing the homeless from the subway system to the city's streets) solves much of nothing.... What is wrong with you???

 

That's basically why I kept silent. The premise alone was enough to get my blood boiling, but the details cooled it enough to leave me mentally facepalming at the (lack of) actual planning.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

I'm of the stance that the homeless need to be booted from the city altogether, as a nuisance.

If it was that easy, it would've happened already. The homeless have rights and they can and have sued the City for harassment. That is why it is a tricky situation. That's also why they had cops at the end of the terminals, because then you can remove them from the train since it's a terminal and all people are supposed to get off, otherwise, you can't do much. You have to assume that they entered the system legally (made payment to do so), and thus have a right to use the system.

[bobtehpanda]

15 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

I'm of the stance that the homeless need to be booted from the city altogether, as a nuisance.

At the end of the day they have constitutional rights and are entitled due process like the rest of us.

The vast majority of this country is one surprise medical bill away from flirting with homelessness. With COVID causing mass economic distress, I wouldn't speak so soon given that you don't know if you might become homeless.

[Deucey]

21 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

 

For late night service, I have to wonder if some subway routes can be bustituted on a permanent basis, and to also discourage the homeless from being on the subway

 

There was a system like this awhile back. It made Rosa Parks famous enough to get a Paris Métro station named after her (amongst others).

(I never thought I’d see a day where a fellow PoC advocated Jim Crow as a good idea.)

[Lawrence St]

19 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

No, they can't.... And to sacrifice subway service for bus service (for the sake of displacing the homeless from the subway system to the city's streets) solves much of nothing.... What is wrong with you???

 

Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but doesn't SEPTA's Market-Frankford Line have bus service replaced overnight?

[B35 via Church]

48 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but doesn't SEPTA's Market-Frankford Line have bus service replaced overnight?

Please tell me you didn't misinterpret that comment of mine that badly......

As far as what you're asking though, IDK what's going on in Philadelphia during those hours due to this crisis, or at all really.... Right now my focus is on the mish-mash going on with transit here in New York City.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Please tell me you didn't misinterpret that comment of mine that badly......

As far as what you're asking though, IDK what's going on in Philadelphia during those hours due to this crisis, or at all really.... Right now my focus is on the mish-mash going on with transit here in New York City.

Oh no, I fully understood what you meant, I was just trying to understand the reasoning as to why SEPTA does it (even before the crisis). 

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but doesn't SEPTA's Market-Frankford Line have bus service replaced overnight?

I could make a case of replacement buses overnight for the entire subway long-term. They do it in London, LA, SF, Paris and elsewhere, so it’s not unprecedented. I could @Wallyhorse it; I could even do corridors without SBS/Local and super SBS mirroring express stops with timed transfers - like others could, and they’d all be more or less salient plans/thought experiments.

The problem @B35 via Church, myself and others pointed out, in this proposal, is the rationale OP gave for it.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

I could make a case of replacement buses overnight for the entire subway long-term. They do it in London, LA, SF, Paris and elsewhere, so it’s not unprecedented. I could @Wallyhorse it; I could even do corridors without SBS/Local and super SBS mirroring express stops with timed transfers - like others could, and they’d all be more or less salient plans/thought experiments.

The problem @B35 via Church, myself and others pointed out, in this proposal, is the rationale OP gave for it.

Considering he's the same person who suggested opening up streets to local traffic in order to run over protesters, it's why I don't bother taking his proposals seriously at this point. It's like intentionally choosing the worst possible option/most dramatic option just because it technically solves the first one and looks "tough" and "effective", but then creates a whole other set of problems. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Considering he's the same person who suggested opening up streets to local traffic in order to run over protesters, it's why I don't bother taking his proposals seriously at this point. It's like intentionally choosing the worst possible option/most dramatic option just because it technically solves the first one and looks "tough" and "effective", but then creates a whole other set of problems. 

I forgot about that extremist shit he said.... Good call.... Puts this into perspective.... Par for the course.

[Deucey]

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Considering he's the same person who suggested opening up streets to local traffic in order to run over protesters, it's why I don't bother taking his proposals seriously at this point. It's like intentionally choosing the worst possible option/most dramatic option just because it technically solves the first one and looks "tough" and "effective", but then creates a whole other set of problems. 

I’m beyond disgusted by that.

[BreeddekalbL]

It's been a while  

Figured I'd play the game again 

Playing on jpwright 

Built some subway extensions and thinking some bus  routes could be wacked or redesigned

Such as via junction Blvd to LGA also includes a extension there also. 

Would it be appropriate to eliminate the q72?

Would the q48 and q70 be eliminated also ?

Heck I guess the only route needed into LGA with subway service is the M60 or do buses even need to come into LGA? 

via lie hhe to Queens College then Springfield Blvd 

 How would a redesign go especially you have Queensboro college 

past 179th street to Springfield Blvd then little neck pkwy. 

Subway stops would be 

188 

195

Francis Lewis 

Hollis ct Blvd

Springfield Blvd

Winchester Blvd 

Commonwealth Blvd 

Little neck pkwy

How would you redesign hillside Ave buses

to rosdale lirr and / to Hollis 

How would their redesigns go heck are there even redesigns needed?

@Lawrence St you got some homework to do lol

Edited September 2, 2021 by BreeddekalbL

[Lawrence St]

On 9/2/2021 at 4:10 AM, BreeddekalbL said:

It's been a while  

Figured I'd play the game again 

Playing on jpwright 

Built some subway extensions and thinking some bus  routes could be wacked or redesigned

Such as via junction Blvd to LGA also includes a extension there also. 

Would it be appropriate to eliminate the q72?

Would the q48 and q70 be eliminated also ?

Heck I guess the only route needed into LGA with subway service is the M60 or do buses even need to come into LGA? 

via lie hhe to Queens College then Springfield Blvd 

 How would a redesign go especially you have Queensboro college 

past 179th street to Springfield Blvd then little neck pkwy. 

Subway stops would be 

188 

195

Francis Lewis 

Hollis ct Blvd

Springfield Blvd

Winchester Blvd 

Commonwealth Blvd 

Little neck pkwy

How would you redesign hillside Ave buses

to rosdale lirr and / to Hollis 

How would their redesigns go heck are there even redesigns needed?

@Lawrence St you got some homework to do lol

what homework?