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LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread


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14 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

They really should go back to the old schedule and increase service to GCT overtime as it gets more popular.

The oversimplified thought process is what got us into this mess to begin with. The "old schedule" had barely any reverse-peak service, a bunch of 3-stop flyers, hourly off-peak Ronkonkoma Branch service, and had the West Hempstead Branch as a bihourly shuttle. They needed to generally shift the balance of service to be more in favor of Penn Station, leave some more of the Brooklyn service, and have more consistent service patterns. 

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6 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Surprised since Amtrak isn't THAT frequent between NYP and BOS, I'm guessing single tracking between Queens and New Rochelle? That's the only reason I can see them needing to cut service though there.

They will be installing third rail which means one track has to be shut down.

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7 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The oversimplified thought process is what got us into this mess to begin with. The "old schedule" had barely any reverse-peak service, a bunch of 3-stop flyers, hourly off-peak Ronkonkoma Branch service, and had the West Hempstead Branch as a bihourly shuttle. They needed to generally shift the balance of service to be more in favor of Penn Station, leave some more of the Brooklyn service, and have more consistent service patterns. 

In the "grand" scheme of things, the MTA underestimated (direct) Brooklyn service to/from Atlantic Terminal & overestimated/overrated service to Grand Central... End result, Penn riders get screwed.

Edited by B35 via Church
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11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

In the "grand" scheme of things, the MTA underestimated (direct) Brooklyn service to/from Atlantic Terminal & overestimated/overrated service to Grand Central... End result, Penn riders get screwed.

My guess is they probably thought people who went to Atlantic or Hunterspoint Av and took the Subway to Manhattan would swap over, but even that seems disingenuous even if going to the Eastside or Lower Manhattan is faster via GCM under the current system some people are just too stubborn to change their habits. Otherwise, I can't see how they justified gutting so much service to Penn and Atlantic. 

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2 hours ago, IAlam said:

My guess is they probably thought people who went to Atlantic or Hunterspoint Av and took the Subway to Manhattan would swap over, but even that seems disingenuous even if going to the Eastside or Lower Manhattan is faster via GCM under the current system some people are just too stubborn to change their habits. Otherwise, I can't see how they justified gutting so much service to Penn and Atlantic. 

I mean it takes something like 7-10 minutes from the LIRR station to the subway...I can see why people would want to keep their current commute.

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44 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Starting on March 13th they are going to shift 4 Ronkonkoma trains from GCM to Penn Station.

Its a start!

It's four trains altogether. Only one of them is a Ronkonkoma Branch Train. The others are a morning outbound train to Hempstead (likely what that Ronkonkoma Branch train leaves NYC as), a morning inbound Long Beach train, and a PM outbound Babylon Branch train.

 

The Ronkonkoma Branch change made sense because during that interval, there are currently 3 trains in a row to Grand Central.

The Long Beach Branch one is questionable though because the 7:54 train is now 8 minutes earlier than the existing 8:02 train, which goes to Penn and makes local stops in SE Queens. Way I see, enough people might just shift to that 7:54 train and crowd that while the 8:02 might run somewhat empty before hitting Lynbrook. 

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1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

It's four trains altogether. Only one of them is a Ronkonkoma Branch Train. The others are a morning outbound train to Hempstead (likely what that Ronkonkoma Branch train leaves NYC as), a morning inbound Long Beach train, and a PM outbound Babylon Branch train.

 

The Ronkonkoma Branch change made sense because during that interval, there are currently 3 trains in a row to Grand Central.

The Long Beach Branch one is questionable though because the 7:54 train is now 8 minutes earlier than the existing 8:02 train, which goes to Penn and makes local stops in SE Queens. Way I see, enough people might just shift to that 7:54 train and crowd that while the 8:02 might run somewhat empty before hitting Lynbrook. 

Adding on to that, 4 morning trains on the Ronkonkoma Branch that originate in Brentwood will be extended to originate in Ronkonkoma and stop at Central Islip. They are the 5:16, 5:48, 6:03, and 7:57am trains. Those trains will begin at Ronkonkoma at 5:06, 5:38, 5:53, and 7:47am.

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On 3/9/2023 at 7:54 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I mean it takes something like 7-10 minutes from the LIRR station to the subway...I can see why people would want to keep their current commute.

The transfer from GCM (track 203, car #2 of 10, near 45th Street escalators) to the southbound Lex platform (middle door of the third car) takes me 6-7 minutes, including walking up the long escalator, going through dining concourse and up the Oyster Bar ramp (even though LIRR clearly wants people to use the shuttle passage instead), and down the stairs just inside GC at 42nd/Park. Yes, it's a much longer transfer, but the subsequent subway ride is much shorter and I get some good exercise.

 

 

On 3/9/2023 at 5:43 AM, B35 via Church said:

In the "grand" scheme of things, the MTA underestimated (direct) Brooklyn service to/from Atlantic Terminal & overestimated/overrated service to Grand Central... End result, Penn riders get screwed.

I thought the claim of "40% more service" meant that service to GCM was supposed to be purely in addition to all or most of what was already going to Penn or Atlantic. That was clearly not their plan, but it may have to become the plan.

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21 minutes ago, Far rockaway said:

why don't most LIRR Diesel trains run to Penn station. Like for example, why can't OYSTER BAY trains run all the way to Penn Station, instead of terminating at Jamaica.

A good number of locomotives outright lack the proper equipment to run exclusively on electricity. To make matters worse, equipment is pretty limited and spread thin.

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Whoever was in charge of making the schedules for the added St. Patrick's Day service, are y'all serious?

The parade route is on 5th Avenue (like every other year), from 44th up to 79th Street. Instead of routing service to the brand new station thats very close to the start of the parade route, EVERY train added for parade goers is headed to Penn Station smh. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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46 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Is anyone scratching their head trying to figure out why LIRR refuses to go back to the old schedule and work on a better one? Literally the major point I keep hearing is "direct brooklyn service" for the past 3 weeks and there hasn't been a single change with that.

Could have something to do with work assignments already set in place based on the new schedule.

Plus the new schedule in some ways is a vast improvement over the old schedules for reverse commuters along the main line. Going back to the old schedule will go back to having 3-4 hour gaps in service along the main line for reverse peak commuters.

Major tweaking is needed, but going back to how things were is not a answer to that.

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Putting it on scheduling with this new LIRR plan is giving the MTA a gargantuan out.... The issues (plural) with this new plan is clearly macro; one of that of planning... Of course you want people to access/utilize the new station, but the fact of the matter is that they went far too far left with shoving GCT in commuter's faces.... Everything else that happened after that (that commuters have raised valid concerns about) was/is a result of a nasty domino effect...

Tweaking the current schedules, nor reverting back to the old schedules would amount to a quick fix.... A good start would be a composite of what made the old plan/service setup good (or at least adequate enough) & what makes the current plan good or adequate enough (aside from merely running trains to a station that previously didn't exist!!!!)...

Another part of the problem is that Jamaica is poorly designed for the purpose that the new plan has it being used (more) for.... There's a significant difference between [getting from. say, track 14, to the 7th av line... or from track 20 to the 8th av line at Penn], to [getting from track 1 to track 11 at Jamaica] - Especially considering the fact that the xferring is being done below ground at Penn, and into the/with the elements (weather/outdoors) at Jamaica....

I'm trying to refrain from using the word petty (because LIRR riders' complaints when it comes to this are valid), but realizing how those riders are, I can easily see a class action lawsuit against the MTA happening in the future as a result of this new plan... You could argue tight connections exacerbating matters,, but the increased amount of xferring between different platforms didn't necessarily have to be a thing to begin with....

Edited by B35 via Church
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55 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Putting it on scheduling with this new LIRR plan is giving the MTA a gargantuan out.... The issues (plural) with this new plan is clearly macro; one of that of planning... Of course you want people to access/utilize the new station, but the fact of the matter is that they went far too far left with shoving GCT in commuter's faces.... Everything else that happened after that (that commuters have raised valid concerns about) was/is a result of a nasty domino effect...

Tweaking the current schedules, nor reverting back to the old schedules would amount to a quick fix.... A good start would be a composite of what made the old plan/service setup good (or at least adequate enough) & what makes the current plan good or adequate enough (aside from merely running trains to a station that previously didn't exist!!!!)...

Another part of the problem is that Jamaica is poorly designed for the purpose that the new plan has it being used (more) for.... There's a significant difference between [getting from. say, track 14, to the 7th av line... or from track 20 to the 8th av line at Penn], to [getting from track 1 to track 11 at Jamaica] - Especially considering the fact that the xferring is being done below ground at Penn, and into the/with the elements (weather/outdoors) at Jamaica....

I'm trying to refrain from using the word petty (because LIRR riders' complaints when it comes to this are valid), but realizing how those riders are, I can easily see a class action lawsuit against the MTA happening in the future as a result of this new plan... You could argue tight connections exacerbating matters,, but the increased amount of xferring between different platforms didn't necessarily have to be a thing to begin with....

There was a lawsuit started previously by an attorney who uses the LIRR citing massive overcrowding and safety concerns. I don't know what ever happened with that lawsuit because it was started pre-COVID if memory serves me, but I can say from my personal experiences dealing with the (MTA) I haven't met anyone working there that wasn't capable. I think this is a mix of trying to push people to use Grand Central, arrogance, and also not listening to the needs of riders.  I have seen some petitions circulated and people beginning to write elected officials (as they should).

When you give riders draft schedules, solicit feedback and then do nothing with that feedback, there is a serious disconnect with leadership.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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