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LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread


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6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think it would be a real advantage if they were offering the current price with direct service to Penn Station.  I think they would get more people that way.  I'm thinking about the fact that for the stations in question, it wasn't just the price that was the issue. They're generally located in isolated areas, which is another turn-off. All they've done here is address the cost, not accessibility to the stations.

If people find out that the LIRR will provide more service (6 tph) than the (E) train (5 tph) during the day on Saturdays and Sundays while the Catch Bus To Continental project is going on, the (MTA) would make a boatload of money.

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8 hours ago, RR503 said:

I can say definitively that the issue wasn’t station isolation so much as it was a lack of awareness and price. While ENY and Nostrand are not really in the thick of things, Jamaica, Rosedale, Locust Manor and Saint Albans (the latter especially) are located very near/above major transportational and commercial corridors, which would make them attractive if only the LIRR tried to market their service. 

...which brings me to my second point. Right now, in SE Queens, the NYCTRC/LIRR are hosting open houses promoting Atlantic Ticket in order to raise awareness of the railroad as a viable commute option and of the ticket program. Of course, this would all be better if the LIRR included Penn in the pilot, but given the crowding and track conditions already extant at that station, they opted not to include it — out of institutional lassitude, sure, but also a defensible excess of caution.

I’d also remind you that this is a sort of trial-by-fire pilot program. The Atlantic Ticket concept is meant to be expanded to all areas of NYC’s commuter rail system eventually, but it was felt necessary for it to be proven in a smaller area first. The SE Queens and Atlantic Terminal destination string struck planners as being an area where excess capacity existed and could be harnessed to the railroad’s benefit. Thus, the real question being answered here is whether or not an agressively marketed fare reduction/consolidation program can affect the opening/redistribution of commuter markets in the City, and what the magnitude on which those changes would take place would be. If this question is answered in a positive manner, commuter rail fare reduction will have succeeded at what is a relatively difficult transportational task, thus certifying it as a valid treatment for other corridors in the city. 

Well all of this remains to be seen. I think they also realize that lowering the fare too much would force them to have to re-access fares elsewhere. 

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22 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Unless he doesn't have to take the subway anymore, what's the appeal? 

The a[ppeal is his commute is currently 1 and 1/2 hours on a good day this will cut it in half for him.

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On 6/3/2018 at 12:29 AM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Nothing pisses me off more with the LIRR than having cars closed off on a train. We shouldn’t have to sardine ourselves because there’s not enough conductors to check tickets, or because “service doesn’t meet the extra car requirement”. 

Big problem on the main line, never mind the insufficient service along it to begin with....

F*** the LIRR & their incessant, blatant pandering to the south shore towns.

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On 6/8/2018 at 12:22 PM, IAlam said:

I told one of my relatives how lives near ones of the stations, he got excited and said he'll start using it next week. He would normally take the bus to the subway, so I guess the discount was enough to entice him to switch over. 

The Queens Blvd Line delays got me to use the LIRR more. Even though I usually went to/from Penn Station, the price cut helps and takes a similar amount of time (for me).  Also, 4 weeklies are $240 which is under the $260 pre tax commuter benefit limit.

21 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Does it include an express bus pass? (So you can use the X63 for say, East Midtown?)

blockquote widgetThe site says "**Not valid for transfer to express buses or NICE bus."

http://web.mta.info/service/atlantic-ticket.htm#usage

21 hours ago, RR503 said:

The bus is less reliable than the subway or LIRR, thus its elimination from a route is a net increase in reliability, not to mention a decrease in time. What's more, with 9 subway options at Atlantic itself (along with 2 at Nostrand and one at ENY), I think any disruption that may take place could be mitigated much more easily than one at a station with only 1 or 3 options, as the stations in Jamaica do. 

I actually don't know, but I can find that out for you. 

I agree, once you get on the train it takes only 10 mins to Jamaica from Queens Village or Rosedale as opposed to the Bus.

East New York is also 2 blocks from Broadway Junction. (A)(C)(J)(Z)(L) 

14 hours ago, paulrivera said:

If people find out that the LIRR will provide more service (6 tph) than the (E) train (5 tph) during the day on Saturdays and Sundays while the Catch Bus To Continental project is going on, the (MTA) would make a boatload of money.

From Jamaica? The Stations east of Jamaica have hourly service on weekends.

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well all of this remains to be seen. I think they also realize that lowering the fare too much would force them to have to re-access fares elsewhere. 

They may re-access fares to Atlantic from other branches if it takes the strain off Penn Station trains.

30 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But he still has to transfer to the subway, no? What else is he using besides the LIRR?

Even so, transferring to the subway at Atlantic is better than taking the bus to Jamaica, then dealing with a 45 min (on a good day) subway ride.

For example, instead of taking the bus to the subway now, I park near the LIRR and transfer to the subway at Atlantic into Manhattan. I don't have to worry about evening track work on the QBL, I don't have to worry about catching/missing the bus in Jamaica, My commute home will not take 2+ hours because I will take a 30min LIRR ride from Atlantic Terminal and drive home in 5 mins.

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4 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

The Queens Blvd Line delays got me to use the LIRR more. Even though I usually went to/from Penn Station, the price cut helps and takes a similar amount of time (for me).  Also, 4 weeklies are $240 which is under the $260 pre tax commuter benefit limit.

blockquote widgetThe site says "**Not valid for transfer to express buses or NICE bus."

http://web.mta.info/service/atlantic-ticket.htm#usage

I agree, once you get on the train it takes only 10 mins to Jamaica from Queens Village or Rosedale as opposed to the Bus.

East New York is also 2 blocks from Broadway Junction. (A)(C)(J)(Z)(L) 

From Jamaica? The Stations east of Jamaica have hourly service on weekends.

They may re-access fares to Atlantic from other branches if it takes the strain off Penn Station trains.

Even so, transferring to the subway at Atlantic is better than taking the bus to Jamaica, then dealing with a 45 min (on a good day) subway ride.

For example, instead of taking the bus to the subway now, I park near the LIRR and transfer to the subway at Atlantic into Manhattan. I don't have to worry about evening track work on the QBL, I don't have to worry about catching/missing the bus in Jamaica, My commute home will not take 2+ hours because I will take a 30min LIRR ride from Atlantic Terminal and drive home in 5 mins.

That's still three "transfers" though (Subway, LIRR and then the car). Interesting.

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23 hours ago, Italianstallion said:

They definitely have markers at the Riverdale station. The southbound platform marker placement is curious, though. The 4-car marker is at the midpoint of the platform. If the train stopped there, those folks waiting at the southern end of the station (that is, ALL of the passengers) would have to run down the platform to reach the train, as the only stairway is at the south end and everyone congregates there. Thankfully, the engineers know where to stop.

Again, the markers on the platforms are for the train crew.  Not for passengers, rail fans or anyone else.  Riverdale platform on track 4 the engineer should be spotting the train at the south end of the platform as that is where the majority of passengers will gather as the stairs are there.

The 4 car Mark is at the middle of the platform as it's an 8 car platform.  Reason would be the 4 mark would be in the middle.

Edited by Truckie
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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's still three "transfers" though (Subway, LIRR and then the car). Interesting.

You're focusing on the number of transfers (which is not the issue in this case), It's the speed, reduced frustration and removal of reliance on the bus (if not more).

I can walk to/from the LIRR (20+ mins) but driving is much quicker. If you miss the bus, you can miss the train, or there can be a gap in bus service which will not get you to the LIRR in time. I can drive to the station in less than 10 mins, and be at Atlantic Terminal (or Penn Station) 30 mins later. From either terminal I'd have to take the subway to get to my destination anyway. The bus ride to the subway in Jamaica is 20 mins minimum on a good day.

In the evening (after rush hour), I can take a 15-20 min subway ride to Atlantic (even if there are subway delays, the delays aren't an hour's + worth of delays/slow speeds all the way to Jamaica) , get on the LIRR and be 5 mins from home once I get off. Or, I can deal with delays on the Queens Blvd Line, then hang around Jamaica for another 20 mins or so because I missed my bus, and get home in 2+ hours.

Side note: The other day I think I saw a lady complaining on the phone that the Q27 pulled off from the stop when the B/O knew that a train had just arrived.

Also with the weekly you can use the LIRR whenever you want between those stations.

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5 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

You're focusing on the number of transfers (which is not the issue in this case), It's the speed, reduced frustration and removal of reliance on the bus (if not more).

I can walk to/from the LIRR (20+ mins) but driving is much quicker. If you miss the bus, you can miss the train, or there can be a gap in bus service which will not get you to the LIRR in time. I can drive to the station in less than 10 mins, and be at Atlantic Terminal (or Penn Station) 30 mins later. From either terminal I'd have to take the subway to get to my destination anyway. The bus ride to the subway in Jamaica is 20 mins minimum on a good day.

In the evening (after rush hour), I can take a 15-20 min subway ride to Atlantic (even if there are subway delays, the delays aren't an hour's + worth of delays/slow speeds all the way to Jamaica) , get on the LIRR and be 5 mins from home once I get off. Or, I can deal with delays on the Queens Blvd Line, then hang around Jamaica for another 20 mins or so because I missed my bus, and get home in 2+ hours.

Side note: The other day I think I saw a lady complaining on the phone that the Q27 pulled off from the stop when the B/O knew that a train had just arrived.

Also with the weekly you can use the LIRR whenever you want between those stations.

Yeah I am because I know from experience that more transfers can lead to delays. In your case we'll exclude the car, so that leaves the LIRR to Atlantic where presumably you have more options should the (2)(3)(4)(5) go down. lol

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IMO, there should be a regular fare tier covering the subway and local bus, and a single unified premium tier covering express buses and commuter rail as well.

Right now there is no rhyme or reason for all these different fare structures throughout the region and it hurts public transit usage. (Don't even get me started on the crap integration between buses and rail on Long Island...)

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40 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

IMO, there should be a regular fare tier covering the subway and local bus, and a single unified premium tier covering express buses and commuter rail as well.

Right now there is no rhyme or reason for all these different fare structures throughout the region and it hurts public transit usage. (Don't even get me started on the crap integration between buses and rail on Long Island...)

There needs to be something because they always jack up the fares for express bus and Metro-North riders every single time. 

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7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah I am because I know from experience that more transfers can lead to delays.

1

Except when there's already a delay on one line (whether it's a bus or train line). All the times I've gotten off the express bus at Battery Place and taken the (4)(5) to the (A)(C) instead of sitting in traffic to get up to Park Place (or heck, all the times I decided to take the X17A Downtown for the subway when I knew the X17J would get stuck at the Lincoln Tunnel). There was even a time when I was already on the (2) and we were crawling because of signal problems or whatever, so I got off at Times Square and took the (N) to Atlantic for the (4) even though I could've stayed on the (2) all the way to Franklin.

Heck, I'll put it to you this way: How come so many people get off the local and transfer to the express when the local gets to their stop eventually? 

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4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Except when there's already a delay on one line (whether it's a bus or train line). All the times I've gotten off the express bus at Battery Place and taken the (4)(5) to the (A)(C) instead of sitting in traffic to get up to Park Place (or heck, all the times I decided to take the X17A Downtown for the subway when I knew the X17J would get stuck at the Lincoln Tunnel). There was even a time when I was already on the (2) and we were crawling because of signal problems or whatever, so I got off at Times Square and took the (N) to Atlantic for the (4) even though I could've stayed on the (2) all the way to Franklin.

Heck, I'll put it to you this way: How come so many people get off the local and transfer to the express when the local gets to their stop eventually? 

Because in theory the local should be faster than the express. However that isn't always the case, and with train service being what it is, if they save five minutes doing all of that running, they'll be lucky. I'd much rather have one mode of transit to use than three and if there's a delay, most of the time if you give yourself an extra 20 minutes that does the trick. In theory I've found a way to take the subway and leave later, but that involves everything working perfectly: one local bus (timed), then three subways. Yeah I can make decent time considering all of that (an hour to an hour 10 minutes roughly), but I'm exhausted before I even get to my office. You're both young. When I was that age it was totally fine doing all of that crap. As you get older, it becomes annoying. I do everything strategically now so as to minimize how much time I use AND getting there the most direct way.

It sounds like the two of you don't give yourself enough time so, you're always running around. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Because in theory the local should be faster than the express. However that isn't always the case, and with train service being what it is, if they save five minutes doing all of that running, they'll be lucky. I'd much rather have one mode of transit to use than three and if there's a delay, most of the time if you give yourself an extra 20 minutes that does the trick. In theory I've found a way to take the subway and leave later, but that involves everything working perfectly: one local bus (timed), then three subways. Yeah I can make decent time considering all of that (an hour to an hour 10 minutes roughly), but I'm exhausted before I even get to my office. You're both young. When I was that age it was totally fine doing all of that crap. As you get older, it becomes annoying. I do everything strategically now so as to minimize how much time I use AND getting there the most direct way.

It sounds like the two of you don't give yourself enough time so, you're always running around. 

That's why I always check SubwayTime and the service status before doing any of that. As for knowing how much time I give myself, how do you know my schedule? I simply don't like wasting time. Even when I'm traveling on the clock with no pressure to make it back to the other office, I'll make whatever transfers are necessary to get me back quickly. It's just the way I am. Even when I was a little kid traveling with my parents, I would always want to transfer to the express where possible.

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's why I always check SubwayTime and the service status before doing any of that. As for knowing how much time I give myself, how do you know my schedule? I simply don't like wasting time. Even when I'm traveling on the clock with no pressure to make it back to the other office, I'll make whatever transfers are necessary to get me back quickly. It's just the way I am. Even when I was a little kid traveling with my parents, I would always want to transfer to the express where possible.

I don't know your schedule. I DO know that you make a conscious effort to time everything down to the minute. You pretty much imply it. That's fine if it works for you, but the reality is with how messed up the subways are, it's unrealistic to commute that way. I know how long my commutes should be and give myself a cushion. If I'm still late at that point then it is what it is. The problem with you two is you already have a long commute so you're not going to want to give yourselves more cushion. That's one of the reasons I left Staten Island. I don't mind a schedule, but I do mind having that long of a commute. Even on a good day from most of Staten Island, it's a 90-120 minute commute depending on how deep you are on the island each way. In N6's case it's perhaps a bit shorter but still a long commute. If you were really going to give yourself a cushion, you'd be looking at two hours each way.

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21 hours ago, Truckie said:

Again, the markers on the platforms are for the train crew.  Not for passengers, rail fans or anyone else.  Riverdale platform on track 4 the engineer should be spotting the train at the south end of the platform as that is where the majority of passengers will gather as the stairs are there.

The 4 car Mark is at the middle of the platform as it's an 8 car platform.  Reason would be the 4 mark would be in the middle.

Yes, I assume the 4 -car mark is the spot where there train has to at least reach. Nothing prevents an engineer who knows the station from stopping the train further down by the stairs.

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I don't know your schedule. I DO know that you make a conscious effort to time everything down to the minute. You pretty much imply it. That's fine if it works for you, but the reality is with how messed up the subways are, it's unrealistic to commute that way. I know how long my commutes should be and give myself a cushion. If I'm still late at that point then it is what it is. The problem with you two is you already have a long commute so you're not going to want to give yourselves more cushion. That's one of the reasons I left Staten Island. I don't mind a schedule, but I do mind having that long of a commute. Even on a good day from most of Staten Island, it's a 90-120 minute commute depending on how deep you are on the island each way. In N6's case it's perhaps a bit shorter but still a long commute. If you were really going to give yourself a cushion, you'd be looking at two hours each way.

Usually 90 mins is sufficient, but I'd rather get on the LIRR now that I'm accustomed to it than to deal with the bus and subway. That same 90 mins gives me more time once in Manhattan (an half hour or so)  to sit outside if the weather is nice or go for a walk before heading in. The return trip is particularly annoying using the Bus and subway because it's either the Queens Blvd mess, or the (J)  and having to get to my bus from Jamaica Center. 

Even if I'm ahead of time or don't have a specific time to be somewhere I'd want to get out of the subway ASAP because delays are irritating. There have been times where I decided not to transfer to the (A) from the (C)(E) , and the (A) makes its way down 8th Ave while the (C)(E) gets delayed and held due to flagging, etc. 

Even on weekends when the (E) and (F) are local in Queens, going local would typically add 10 mins to the trip, but that's not enough for "allow additional travel time" , because it's local, with slow speed orders, being held, etc, so now the trip takes 20+ mins extra, when I could have just taken a different route (which is my default now). I'd rather use that time to be be at or near at my destination or doing an errand or 2 by going a different route than sitting trapped on a train between stations or being "held by the train dispatcher". 

I still have PTSD from that night my train took a million years to move along the QBL, sitting 5 to 10 mins at and in between EACH station along the QBL before I escaped at 63rd drive and jumped on the Q60 (where I STILL had to get to my bus in Jamaica), when I could have been home already if I took the LIRR.

I don't have the patience anymore.

7 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's why I always check SubwayTime and the service status before doing any of that. As for knowing how much time I give myself, how do you know my schedule? I simply don't like wasting time. Even when I'm traveling on the clock with no pressure to make it back to the other office, I'll make whatever transfers are necessary to get me back quickly. It's just the way I am. Even when I was a little kid traveling with my parents, I would always want to transfer to the express where possible.

Exactly, I'm the same way. If I'm on the train I want it to be moving, not crawling. If I have to transfer to avoid delays or it's easier than so be it. But later in the evening when on 20 min headways you have to judge if it makes sense.  One evening coming from uptown, it made more sense to take the (3) Express to Times Square and walk over to Bryant Park for the (F) than to do any sort of in system transferring. 

Even driving, If I see traffic on google maps I go a different way. I've avoided sitting in traffic unnecessarily by getting off the highway right before the congestion starts and bypassing it on the service road or whatever. Or on main roads, if traffic signals are backed up, you can go through the side streets to bypass the congestion (More-so in eastern Queens where there isn't a traffic signal on EVERY corner)

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2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Exactly, I'm the same way. If I'm on the train I want it to be moving, not crawling. If I have to transfer to avoid delays or it's easier than so be it. But later in the evening when on 20 min headways you have to judge if it makes sense.  One evening coming from uptown, it made more sense to take the (3) Express to Times Square and walk over to Bryant Park for the (F) than to do any sort of in system transferring. 

Even driving, If I see traffic on google maps I go a different way. I've avoided sitting in traffic unnecessarily by getting off the highway right before the congestion starts and bypassing it on the service road or whatever. Or on main roads, if traffic signals are backed up, you can go through the side streets to bypass the congestion (More-so in eastern Queens where there isn't a traffic signal on EVERY corner)

2

To give you another idea, a few days ago I had to go to Long Island City, right by Hunterspoint Avenue. I saw that on the MTA's website, it said that Flushing-bound (7) trains had delays due to signal problems. Not sure if they were 2 minute delays or hour delays, I just stayed on the Lexington Avenue Line to 59th Street, caught the (W) to QBP, and then caught the (7) "backwards" (westbound) to my destination. I'd rather spend an extra 10 minutes and be sure of the travel time than to take the route that's normally quicker but fails me this time. Still made it to my interview with time to spare.

And yeah, I'm the same way when it comes to main roads vs. side streets. I'd rather sit through a few traffic lights or stop signs than feel trapped on the main street (the other thing I do if it's possible is see if I can get 3 people in the car to use any HOV lane that might be available). 

I will say that with apps like Waze, you're starting to see traffic spreading to places you wouldn't first expect. For example, if the SIE and its service roads were backed up, you could usually count on going across College Avenue to be a safe bet. Nowadays, if there's a really bad traffic jam, you'll see people on (almost) every possible alternate route you can think of (I still try to stay one step ahead of everybody, so I'll usually find some way to sneak out of the traffic onto some obscure side street and escape that way).

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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You should have been there the weekend the NJ-bound Goethals was closed and they were preparing to open the second span.  It was half an hour to get onto the Outerbridge.  Google told me to cut through Bricktown Mall and then use the ramp immediately before the bridge.  It would have worked if half of Staten Island wasn't trying to do the same thing.  I do wonder what would have happened if all those canceled SI highways had been built.

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9 hours ago, Joel Up Front said:

You should have been there the weekend the NJ-bound Goethals was closed and they were preparing to open the second span.  It was half an hour to get onto the Outerbridge.  Google told me to cut through Bricktown Mall and then use the ramp immediately before the bridge.  It would have worked if half of Staten Island wasn't trying to do the same thing.  I do wonder what would have happened if all those canceled SI highways had been built.

Richmond Parkway would have been backed up from the SIE to the Outerbridge Crossing. If I was going to NJ I would have went through Manhattan or something, was the Bayonne Bridge open that weekend?

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1 hour ago, Joel Up Front said:

It was, but I was stupid enough to think "30 minutes in traffic is better than spending more time moving." Google's other suggestion was take the GWB.

Depends on what the 30 mins of traffic was. Was it 30 mins to get on the bridge from the immediate vicinity? Or was it 30 mins all the way down the West Shore Expressway to the Br?

 

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