LIRR And MNRR Random Thoughts Thread

[N6 Limited]

On 7/13/2018 at 9:48 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We have them on the Hudson Line and I notice that as well. It seems to be the way the closing mechanism works to ensure that the door is fully closed. Those doors would NEVER work on the subway.  Could you imagine people sticking this and that in the door trying to get on? lol I saw this old Asian lady do it once at 42nd street Bryant Park. The conductor opened the door and then quickly slammed them shut before she could get on.  I laughed my @ss off.

Haha, If I need a subway train asap I'll stick my arm or foot in the door and have a stare down with the conductor. Open the door and I'm happy and will board quickly, keep the door closed and It's a waiting game lol. 

34 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Why is every Huntington bound train leaving Jamaica JAMMED packed to the doors during rush hour? WTF is that...they can't even check tickets on that branch, conductors stayed in their cabs the whole way lol. 

But in all seriousness, the LIRR is robbing people, and why isn't the Port Jeff line electrified and double tracked? I read up on some articles and the MTA says it's not needed, but it actually really is, but do you know how much ridership would boost if the service was more frequent east of Huntington? C'mon now MTA. And I'm honestly tired of these diesel fumes blowing in my face whenever I walk over the overpass at a station, or have to sit at a siding waiting for a opposite direction bound train to pass. 

I'm starting to figure out the LIRR more and more, where it flourishes and where it declines. 

Ugh I hate when those diesels pass by while waiting for my train, it pollutes the whole station

[trainfan22]

I love the diesel engines, love how loud they are, the bass etc. The diesel engines are my favorite aspect of the commuter railroads. I like the Metro North Shorliners more than the C3s though, C3s just feel like bi level subway cars.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

4 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Why is every Huntington bound train leaving Jamaica JAMMED packed to the doors during rush hour? WTF is that...they can't even check tickets on that branch, conductors stayed in their cabs the whole way lol. 

But in all seriousness, the LIRR is robbing people, and why isn't the Port Jeff line electrified and double tracked? I read up on some articles and the MTA says it's not needed, but it actually really is, but do you know how much ridership would boost if the service was more frequent east of Huntington? C'mon now MTA. And I'm honestly tired of these diesel fumes blowing in my face whenever I walk over the overpass at a station, or have to sit at a siding waiting for a opposite direction bound train to pass. 

I'm starting to figure out the LIRR more and more, where it flourishes and where it declines. 

The LIRR tends to have a preference for the South Shore. Notice the crap ton of non-stop express trains during the AM and PM periods on the Babylon Branch. Also, some who head the LIRR live on the South Shore as well, so that factors in as well.

Edited July 20, 2018 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Union Tpke]

10 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Why is every Huntington bound train leaving Jamaica JAMMED packed to the doors during rush hour? WTF is that...they can't even check tickets on that branch, conductors stayed in their cabs the whole way lol. 

But in all seriousness, the LIRR is robbing people, and why isn't the Port Jeff line electrified and double tracked? I read up on some articles and the MTA says it's not needed, but it actually really is, but do you know how much ridership would boost if the service was more frequent east of Huntington? C'mon now MTA. And I'm honestly tired of these diesel fumes blowing in my face whenever I walk over the overpass at a station, or have to sit at a siding waiting for a opposite direction bound train to pass. 

I'm starting to figure out the LIRR more and more, where it flourishes and where it declines. 

Electrification to Ronkonkoma was prioritized over electrification to Northport, and later to Port Jefferson.

[Lance]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 9:43 PM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Always forgot to ask it, and seeing that the new M9s are doing it. I wanna know the answer: why do the M7, M8 and now M9 doors delay before closing? They close about 99% first, then after about another 2-3 seconds they close and lock. 

I think it's a required safety measure. Even on the subway, you can see that the newer cars take a little longer to close their doors than the older fleet where you can literally slam the doors shut.

[Caelestor]

8 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Electrification to Ronkonkoma was prioritized over electrification to Northport, and later to Port Jefferson.

To add on, the Ronkonkoma branch has the higher catchment area and it's the straighter line, so electrifying it was seen as more cost-effective.

I do think the PJ branch should be electrified to Northport or King's Plaza however.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

37 minutes ago, Caelestor said:

To add on, the Ronkonkoma branch has the higher catchment area and it's the straighter line, so electrifying it was seen as more cost-effective.

I do think the PJ branch should be electrified to Northport or King's Plaza however.

Should they at least double track the entire line? 

[Caelestor]

1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Should they at least double track the entire line? 

They should double track to wherever the end of electrification is, as ridership at electrified stops are an order of magnitude greater than those that aren't.

[MNR Beacon Line]

If anyone has or is getting a paper MNR August monthly could you post a picture? There's a ticket stock shortage so they're being printed on weekly stock, I'm curious to see what that looks like.

[Truckie]

On 7/26/2018 at 5:03 PM, MNR Beacon Line said:

If anyone has or is getting a paper MNR August monthly could you post a picture? There's a ticket stock shortage so they're being printed on weekly stock, I'm curious to see what that looks like.

Not a shortage.  There were issues with the original stock for the month getting jammed up in the machines prior to being g on sale.  As a result, the carrier decided to use the weekly/10 trip stock.  Also, as a result instead of the tickets going on sale the usual 20tb, it was delayed a few days.  Those purchasing their monthly ticket though Mail and Ride are not affected and are receiving theirs on the traditional stock.

 

[bobtehpanda]

On 7/20/2018 at 12:10 PM, Caelestor said:

To add on, the Ronkonkoma branch has the higher catchment area and it's the straighter line, so electrifying it was seen as more cost-effective.

I do think the PJ branch should be electrified to Northport or King's Plaza however.

PJ has strong demand all the way to Stony Brook due to the university. And if you're going to Stony Brook you may as well go all the way; it's only one extra stop.

[Caelestor]

50 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

PJ has strong demand all the way to Stony Brook due to the university. And if you're going to Stony Brook you may as well go all the way; it's only one extra stop.

I recently looked at the LIRR ridership report and PJ is actually the highest ridership branch, so the whole branch probably should be electrified after the Main Line third track is built.

[bobtehpanda]

9 hours ago, Caelestor said:

I recently looked at the LIRR ridership report and PJ is actually the highest ridership branch, so the whole branch probably should be electrified after the Main Line third track is built.

If the LIRR didn't have its head up its behind we could probably have used the money on a fully electric LIRR with PTC. Imagine shaving 30 minutes off the Cannonball.

[officiallyliam]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

If the LIRR didn't have its head up its behind we could probably have used the money on a fully electric LIRR with PTC. Imagine shaving 30 minutes off the Cannonball.

The LIRR, like the subway, has more of a problem with poor operation than it does with absolute lack of capacity. The money being poured into the third track project for the Main line ($1.9b) would have been much better spent on a number of smaller improvements - full electrification (or at least to Port Jefferson and Patchogue/Speonk), a flyover at Queens interlocking, and eliminating the grade-crossings would have done enough without the third track. (And running better, not less, service to terminals other than Penn would help). Two tracks is plenty for Ronkonkoma/Port Jefferson service (yes, you'd have to cut direct Penn service from Oyster Bay, but until that line really starts growing in ridership, I don't see that as the end of the world).

I'm sure this is an unpopular take, but I'm not sure how necessary express service on the Main line really is, especially if all the trains were to be electric. It's five extra stops from Hicksville to New Hyde Park. The M7s are actually derated, meaning they don't accelerate as fast as they potentially could; if the LIRR changed this, and the Main line was run solely by M7s/M9s with PTC, I think we'd find that the added time would be negligible. And this would allow us to run proper reverse-peak service without the third track, which seems like another boondoggle in waiting.

[Mtatransit]

6 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

The LIRR, like the subway, has more of a problem with poor operation than it does with absolute lack of capacity. The money being poured into the third track project for the Main line ($1.9b) would have been much better spent on a number of smaller improvements - full electrification (or at least to Port Jefferson and Patchogue/Speonk), a flyover at Queens interlocking, and eliminating the grade-crossings would have done enough without the third track. (And running better, not less, service to terminals other than Penn would help). Two tracks is plenty for Ronkonkoma/Port Jefferson service (yes, you'd have to cut direct Penn service from Oyster Bay, but until that line really starts growing in ridership, I don't see that as the end of the world).

I'm sure this is an unpopular take, but I'm not sure how necessary express service on the Main line really is, especially if all the trains were to be electric. It's five extra stops from Hicksville to New Hyde Park. The M7s are actually derated, meaning they don't accelerate as fast as they potentially could; if the LIRR changed this, and the Main line was run solely by M7s/M9s with PTC, I think we'd find that the added time would be negligible. And this would allow us to run proper reverse-peak service without the third track, which seems like another boondoggle in waiting.

I disagree, I think the third track is needed, and is needed now. You could improve electrify on the PJ branch, double track the Ronk Branch but as long as you have that double track on the main line, you will continue to be capacity constrained and even more so when ESA opens. What about service disruption? With a third track, the RR could bypass the issue on another track, rather than limiting them to one track and completely suspending trains in one direction. Before turning trains into all local MTA, need to schedule the locals and expresses better. Express can go first and the local follows after the express.

[officiallyliam]

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I disagree, I think the third track is needed, and is needed now. You could improve electrify on the PJ branch, double track the Ronk Branch but as long as you have that double track on the main line, you will continue to be capacity constrained and even more so when ESA opens. What about service disruption? With a third track, the RR could bypass the issue on another track, rather than limiting them to one track and completely suspending trains in one direction. Before turning trains into all local MTA, need to schedule the locals and expresses better. Express can go first and the local follows after the express.

You could run trains every ten minutes on the two Main line branches (Port Jefferson, Ronkonkoma), plus on Babylon and Hempstead during peak hours pretty comfortably. This adds up to 24 tph between Jamaica and Harold interlocking, and as long as Queens interlocking is grade-separated, only two lines at a time ever have to share tracks (Ronkonkoma and PJ, Hempstead and Babylon). The only downside to this is that it leaves out the Atlantic branches (Long Beach and Far Rockaway). You'd either have to run all or most of these to Brooklyn (which would eliminate Jamaica conflicts), or they could share tracks with Babylon and Hempstead, but then you're looking at ~36 tph on one track, which is probably pushing it.

(Although if Babylon/Hempstead/Atlantic trains got the express tracks between Jamaica and Woodside, 90-second intervals could be feasible, as long as Harold interlocking can work quickly.)

[Mtatransit]

On 8/3/2018 at 7:25 AM, officiallyliam said:

You could run trains every ten minutes on the two Main line branches (Port Jefferson, Ronkonkoma), plus on Babylon and Hempstead during peak hours pretty comfortably. This adds up to 24 tph between Jamaica and Harold interlocking, and as long as Queens interlocking is grade-separated, only two lines at a time ever have to share tracks (Ronkonkoma and PJ, Hempstead and Babylon). The only downside to this is that it leaves out the Atlantic branches (Long Beach and Far Rockaway). You'd either have to run all or most of these to Brooklyn (which would eliminate Jamaica conflicts), or they could share tracks with Babylon and Hempstead, but then you're looking at ~36 tph on one track, which is probably pushing it.

(Although if Babylon/Hempstead/Atlantic trains got the express tracks between Jamaica and Woodside, 90-second intervals could be feasible, as long as Harold interlocking can work quickly.)

I don't think the problem is west of Jamaica, I think the main bottleneck is between Floral Park to Hicksville, where there is capacity issues. You may be able to fit all the trains if they all run local, but one hiccup, the whole Main Line will go down the drain.  Another problem is politicians, right now LIRR has a weird stopping pattern of semi expresses and flyers and is probably the main reason why they require both tracks during the peak hours. By running them all local you could solve that issue, but people along the PJ/Ronk will make a stink about it. I think the third track is needed, for flexibility reasons. 

[RR503]

What they really should have done with that money is rebuild the old Central Branch from Garden City to Bethpage. That'd have allowed them to separate the Ronk/PJ entirely. In a similar vein, they should have turned the Oyster Bay and West Hempstead Branches into a sort of cross-county light rail system via downtown Hempstead. But I am unrealistic...

[Caelestor]

On 8/5/2018 at 8:04 AM, RR503 said:

What they really should have done with that money is rebuild the old Central Branch from Garden City to Bethpage. That'd have allowed them to separate the Ronk/PJ entirely. In a similar vein, they should have turned the Oyster Bay and West Hempstead Branches into a sort of cross-county light rail system via downtown Hempstead. But I am unrealistic...

This blog and I absolutely agree with you on the Central Branch, but politically it's way too difficult. I also agree that Oyster Bay needs to be converted into a shuttle or light-rail system but that's more feasible to achieve.

LIRR should take a page from MNR and stop underserving stations. Given how competitive the train is versus driving in NYC, frequent service is more important than speed. Every branch (except Oyster Bay and West Hempstead which should probably be demoted to shuttles) should get 30-minute off-peak service with some exceptions:

• Woodside, Mineola, Hicksville: All trains should stop
• Forest Hills / Kew Gardens: Given the QBL weekend work, 4 tph minimum would help a lot.

[bobtehpanda]

There is no need to hastily abandon branches to shuttle only service. Even running quarterly and half hourly service at all stations throughout the day, there's enough track capacity for direct trains to Manhattan all day. 

• 4 tph PW
• 4 tph Ronk
• 4 tph Huntington
• 4 tph Hempstead
• 4 tph Babylon
• 2 tph PJ, FR, LB, WH, OB

This would lead us to have 30 TPH into Penn. Which is really not all that ridiculous, assuming 24TPH per tunnel, and will be perfectly fine when East Side Access throws in another 24TPH for good measure.

[RR503]

I agree that making shuttles speaks more to a lack of creativity than operational necessity, but I do think that reclaiming some branches (OB and WH in particular) for a sort of cross-county LRT would be a very sound investment. The LIRR has the ‘LI to Manhattan’ game down pat, and that’s great, but there must be some recognition that something on the order of 75% of LIers commute within the island. 2nd/3rd track begin to help there, but what really needs to be built out is a robust system of transverse transit corridors — so 110, obviously, but I think this too. If you routed this line through Hempstead rather than on the old WH ROW, you’d be able to hit all sorts of demand centers — the downtowns in Glen Cove and Mineola, the office sprawl in Garden City, Hempstead, and then Valley Stream. Then, of course, there’s the obvious spur off to Roosevelt Field and NCC, which would pick up those massive hubs. Hell, if you really wanted to, you could run this system with FRA-compliant stock and keep some token direct OB/WH to NYC service. Again, opportunities...

[bobtehpanda]

On 8/9/2018 at 11:20 PM, RR503 said:

I agree that making shuttles speaks more to a lack of creativity than operational necessity, but I do think that reclaiming some branches (OB and WH in particular) for a sort of cross-county LRT would be a very sound investment. The LIRR has the ‘LI to Manhattan’ game down pat, and that’s great, but there must be some recognition that something on the order of 75% of LIers commute within the island. 2nd/3rd track begin to help there, but what really needs to be built out is a robust system of transverse transit corridors — so 110, obviously, but I think this too. If you routed this line through Hempstead rather than on the old WH ROW, you’d be able to hit all sorts of demand centers — the downtowns in Glen Cove and Mineola, the office sprawl in Garden City, Hempstead, and then Valley Stream. Then, of course, there’s the obvious spur off to Roosevelt Field and NCC, which would pick up those massive hubs. Hell, if you really wanted to, you could run this system with FRA-compliant stock and keep some token direct OB/WH to NYC service. Again, opportunities...

You can lead Nassau County to water but you can't make it drink. See: NICE funding.

Suffolk has plans for 110 and Nicolls Road BRT. There was a public meeting for Nicolls Road BRT in December 2016, but I don't know if much has happened since then.

[N6 Limited]

4 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

You can lead Nassau County to water but you can't make it drink. See: NICE funding.

Suffolk has plans for 110 and Nicolls Road BRT. There was a public meeting for Nicolls Road BRT in December 2016, but I don't know if much has happened since then.

But that's the trick isn't it? Both roads are essentially highways with 55MPH speed limits for most of their length. they basically have BRT already. 

BRT is something that would be useful on Hempstead Turnpike, from Jamaica to Farmingdale.

[bobtehpanda]

So I've heard a lot of variations on the answer to this question depending where a person grew up or currently lives.

How do you, personally, pronounce 'LIRR'?

[Caelestor]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

So I've heard a lot of variations on the answer to this question depending where a person grew up or currently lives.

How do you, personally, pronounce 'LIRR'?

I've heard L - I - double R as an abbreviation.