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Unplanned Subway Service Changes


Guest lance25

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That 63 Street connector to Queens Boulevard was a compromise… a hack. It should have been left as-is until money came along for a proper connection to Archer Avenue via the Queens Bypass. The mere existence of this connection acts as an excuse to delay the Queens Bypass indefinitely. We’ll get CBTC, platform screen doors, and driverless automated trains before we see a bypass built.

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31 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

You call 63rd an improvement? What they need to do is convert that upper level at Roosevelt to actual service, would help a lot if and when they decide to extend the Rockaway Shuttle over the RBB.

Unless connected to the RX, opening the upper level would serve no purpose save to further overcrowd the Manhattan-bound platforms below. 

1 minute ago, CenSin said:

That 63 Street connector to Queens Boulevard was a compromise… a hack. It should have been left as-is until money came along for a proper connection to Archer Avenue via the Queens Bypass. The mere existence of this connection acts as an excuse to delay the Queens Bypass indefinitely. We’ll get CBTC, platform screen doors, and driverless automated trains before we see a bypass built.

Look, I’m with you in theory, but the crowding situation on Queens Boulevard wasn’t gonna get any better. Imagine how Roosevelt and Queens Plaza would look if the (G) was still a full time QB local...

While a half-measure, those 10 trains per hour of Manhattan gave QB the little bit of breathing room necessary for operation. I frankly don’t think that we could have waited for the Bypass — that would have killed the line. 

And FWIW, I wouldn’t write the Bypass off so fast. It made it into the 20-year needs, and certainly is on the radar of folks in the agency. 

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57 minutes ago, RR503 said:

And FWIW, I wouldn’t write the Bypass off so fast. It made it into the 20-year needs, and certainly is on the radar of folks in the agency. 

Given the track record for the Utica Avenue Line and the 2 Avenue Line, anything on the radar is still likely vaporware until the an operational station with tracks is up for service.

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1 hour ago, RR503 said:

I wouldn’t write the Bypass off so fast. It made it into the 20-year needs, and certainly is on the radar of folks in the agency. 

How would the bypass work in today's standards? Similar to where trains run non-stop between 21 St and Forest Hills (stop at Woodside) and connect to the local tracks? 

Because of the alignment of the Woodside Station and the need to reorganize the tracks as well as other lines to fit the bypass in, the best thing the bypass would do is provide peak direction service. Course, this wouldn't be much of a problem anyways because the bypass is meant to serve the crowds of Jamaica correct?

Edited by MysteriousBtrain
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8 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

How would the bypass work in today's standards? Similar to where trains run non-stop between 21 St and Forest Hills (stop at Woodside) and connect to the local tracks? 

Because of the alignment of the Woodside Station and the need to reorganize the tracks as well as other lines to fit the bypass in, the best thing the bypass would do is provide peak direction service. Course, this wouldn't be much of a problem anyways because the bypass is meant to serve the crowds of Jamaica correct?

Because of the ESA project, a weirdly large amount of the Bypass has already been planned. Basically, it'd run under Sunnyside Yards, then under Barnett Avenue until it goes under the LIRR Main, at which point you're basically at Woodside. You'll have a stop there (somehow constructed below current LIRR platforms), and then the line will continue to a portal just beyond the PW Branch split, from where it'll follow the LIRR Main at grade level until another portal at Yellowstone Boulevard. There, it'll cut north, make a stop below FH71, and join the local tracks of QBL. 

You could easily add stops along the LIRR main portion. Whether you should is up for discussion. 

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2 hours ago, RR503 said:

Because of the ESA project, a weirdly large amount of the Bypass has already been planned. Basically, it'd run under Sunnyside Yards, then under Barnett Avenue until it goes under the LIRR Main, at which point you're basically at Woodside. You'll have a stop there (somehow constructed below current LIRR platforms), and then the line will continue to a portal just beyond the PW Branch split, from where it'll follow the LIRR Main at grade level until another portal at Yellowstone Boulevard. There, it'll cut north, make a stop below FH71, and join the local tracks of QBL. 

You could easily add stops along the LIRR main portion. Whether you should is up for discussion. 

What was the requirement for a bypass, and what’s being covered by the ESA project?

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2 hours ago, CenSin said:

What was the requirement for a bypass, and what’s being covered by the ESA project?

Because of all the tunneling under Sunnyside, the MTA was forced to either give up the possibility of making a Bypass, or lay down a route for it through the yards. They did the latter, and then designated said route a ‘no dig zone’ to preserve the possibility of future construction.

They also had to leave some sort of structural provision IIRC when they built the Q-tip, but don’t quote me on that. 

There are some bid documents for some of the ESA contracts posted somewhere — I’ll find them later and post them. 

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Alright, here y'all go. 

The existing provisions are as follows -- the green jagged thing by the curve off of 41st ave. To this day, that's all that physically exists of the Queens Bypass. 

XthTsvU.jpg

What I'm talking about in terms of the Q-tip (the Q-tip is the bathtub like structure they built to connect the existing 63rd st tunnels to those under Sunnyside Yards. The 63rd st connector threads its way over it). For some geographical context.

Now, let's look at the plans. Do note that none of the tunnels represented in these plans have been built; they're simply paths of and provisions for future construction. 

The Bypass tracks are supposed to largely circumvent the LIRR ESA tunnels. As you can see here (disregard any mention of an NYCT yard track -- they cut that from plans) NYCT T1A and T2A are splitting away from each other to get around the Q tip and proceed under Sunnyside.

nj9zgOk.png

For those who like less cluttered diagrams:

zWL6VKu.png

hdhfbch.png

From there, the two bypass tunnels take widely disparate paths under the yard, the s/b track moving diagonally to a point tangent to Barnett Avenue, and approximately under the 39th st bridge. The n/b track makes a wide arc to the south and west of the ESA tunnels, arriving at the tangent line from Barnett Avenue somewhere near Honeywell St. If you're confused as to what I'm saying, not to fear, Parsons has made a pretty video with an even prettier visual representation. See 0:35 here: https://vimeopro.com/projectviz/vdc-videos/video/72678833 

The green tunnels are the Bypass. 

My understanding of the vertical cross-section of all this is murkier. The n/b bypass tunnel passes under the ESA-Main line connections on its diagonal run under the yard, but in the area of the Q-tip I'm not entirely sure what happens. Some drawings have the two bypass tunnels remaining at equal elevations, suggesting they'd join 63rd st at a flat junction, but others seem to say that the n/b track dips under the 63rd st connecter seemingly to make a flying connection with them before 21st st. I'll have to go explore the area a bit more to be sure, but I think the latter is the case. 

Anyway, here are the drawings: 

Equal elevation:

d82zwX2.png

Different elevations: 

r7qQQWU.png

 

SUPER credz to subchat user Jamestrains1 for making these public. 

 

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22 minutes ago, P3F said:

T1A and T2A are where the bypass would be? Wow, they're quite far from each other under the yard.

Yup! 

Again, I think they were trying to avoid as much conflict as was possible with the ESA tunnels, and doing the diagonal/arc does that best. It'll certainly be a first for the system -- I can't think of anywhere where a pair of tracks gets that far apart. 

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3 hours ago, RR503 said:

Yup! 

Again, I think they were trying to avoid as much conflict as was possible with the ESA tunnels, and doing the diagonal/arc does that best. It'll certainly be a first for the system -- I can't think of anywhere where a pair of tracks gets that far apart. 

Would the former (L) Atlantic Avenue station have counted?

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Service Change

Posted: 02/27/2018  9:55PM

Some southbound (2)and (3) trains are running local from 96 St to Times Sq-42 St.

Some southbound (2) trains are stopping along the (5) line from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Nevins St.

There is no (3) train service between 96 Stand Harlem-148 St in both directions.

These service changes are because of FDNY activity at 72 St.

Expect delays in (1) , (2) and (3) train service.

Our crews are on site working to fix it ASAP and we'll follow up soon. Stay tuned for updates.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Why the (3) suspension though?

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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12 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Service Change

Posted: 02/27/2018  9:55PM

Some southbound (2)and (3) trains are running local from 96 St to Times Sq-42 St.

Some southbound (2) trains are stopping along the (5) line from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Nevins St.

There is no (3) train service between 96 Stand Harlem-148 St in both directions.

These service changes are because of FDNY activity at 72 St.

Expect delays in (1) , (2) and (3) train service.

Our crews are on site working to fix it ASAP and we'll follow up soon. Stay tuned for updates.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Why the (3) suspension though?

If it's FDNY activity, then why do the crews need to be on site "fixing it"? Another lie... If it's a fire, they should just say that.  FDNY activity makes it sound like there's some issue that the FDNY is dealing with that's unrelated to subway service.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Seems like service changes aren't the only things unplanned now...

Service Change

Posted: 02/28/2018  6:02PM

Northbound (R) and (W) trains are running express from Canal St to 57 St-7 Av.

Some northbound (R) trains are stopping along the (D) line from DeKalb Av to W 4 St-Washington Sq then over the (F) line to 36 St (Qns).

Some northbound (Q) trains are stopping along the (D) line from DeKalb Av to W 4 St-Washington Sq then over the (F) line to Lexington Av-63 St.

Expect delays in (D) , (F) , (N) , (Q) , (R) and (W) train service.

These service changes are because of switch problems at 34 St-Herlad Sq.

Our crews are on site working to fix it ASAP and we'll follow up soon. Stay tuned for updates.

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6th Avenue line was a mess tonight. Supposedly because of a switch problem, they had (Q) trains running via the (D) line to 96th Street-2nd Avenue. (B) and (D) trains were a mess. The (B) train I was on was held in the station for God knows how long. When we got to 59th street (Columbus Circle), it went express.

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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

6th Avenue line was a mess tonight. Supposedly because of a switch problem, they had (Q) trains running via the (D) line to 96th Street-2nd Avenue. (B) and (D) trains were a mess. The (B) train I was on was held in the station for God knows how long. When we got to 59th street (Columbus Circle), it went express.

Some (Q) and (R) service (and even one (N)) got rerouted up via 6th Avenue Express. With 5 services on one track (and even if the (Q)(R) being every other train, and the (N) being one train), there's no way that couldn't have caused delays. The original plan was to run the (Q) and (R) via 6th Avenue local, but that didn't happen (It made sense, since that would throw off the (F) and (M) in addition to the (B) and (D)). 

 

Be glad some (F) trains weren't rerouted via the (D) going northbound too, because that has been happening at semi-frequent intervals (due to some signal along the Culver Line having problems). Had that happened, imagine having to deal with (B), (D), and then half the (F), (Q), and (R).

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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10 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Some (Q) and (R) service (and even one (N)) got rerouted up via 6th Avenue Express. With 5 services on one track (and even if the (Q)(R) being every other train, and the (N) being one train), there's no way that couldn't have caused delays. The original plan was to run the (Q) and (R) via 6th Avenue local, but that didn't happen (It made sense, since that would throw off the (F) and (M) in addition to the (B) and (D)). 

 

Be glad some (F) trains weren't rerouted via the (D) going northbound too, because that has been happening at semi-frequent intervals (due to some signal along the Culver Line having problems). Had that happened, imagine having to deal with (B), (D), and then half the (F), (Q), and (R).

It didn't make a difference. I still had to cancel my meeting last night because of the mess. We sat and sat and sat. I just don't understand how this happens so frequently during rush hour. I had been avoiding that line entirely during rush hour and it looks like I'll have to start doing that again.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Service Change   Posted: 03/02/2018  2:06PM  
 

Southbound (5)   trains are running express from Eastchester-Dyre Av to E 180 St because of severe weather conditions causing tree branches on the tracks.

As an alternative, customers can use the Bx12-SBS, Bx16, Bx28, Bx30 or Bx38 bus making nearby station stops.

Our crews are on the scene working to fix it as quickly as possible. We will keep you updated.

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RIP Dyre Avenue Line for the second time today...

Service Change

Posted: 03/02/2018  4:02PM

There is no (5) train service between Eastchester-Dyre Av to E 180 St in both directions because of severe weather conditions causing tree branches on the tracks.

As an alternative, customers can use the Bx12-SBS, Bx16, Bx28, Bx30 or Bx38 bus making nearby station stops.

Our crews are on the scene working to fix it as quickly as possible. We will keep you updated.

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Well, the Dyre Avenue service is back, but looks like another may be close to being suspended (under the right conditions)

Delays  Posted: 03/02/2018  5:30PM 
(5) train service has resumed following earlier severe weather conditions causing tree branches on the tracks. 

 

Service Change  Posted: 03/02/2018  5:47PM 

Southbound (6) trains are running express from Pelham Bay Park to Parkchester because of a fallen tree on the platform at Middletown Rd. 
 

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