Unplanned Subway Service Changes

[N6 Limited]

Now they're saying due to an investigation at Queens plaza and are running over the line to Queens.

 

So all Queens blvd lines are running over 63rd st? Lol

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Going from downtown to Queens in the middle of all this I saw

 

via 63rd

via 63rd

via 6 ave

via 6 ave Exp

 

6 ave local and 53rd street was a complete conga line

[bstar1]

A Big Mess

[N6 Limited]

Going from downtown to Queens in the middle of all this I saw

 

via 63rd

via 63rd

via 6 ave

via 6 ave Exp

 

6 ave local and 53rd street was a complete conga line

Can they do "smart" service changes to increase the capacity of the line? For example, All 4 lines were running on 63rd. Could they have sent an to bypass 57th Street and Roosevelt Ave since it doesn't normally stop there, but stop at 21st Queensbridge because it's not far from Queens Plaza?  

 

Or send the and super express from Lexington Ave 63rd st to Roosevelt Ave, and let the go local behind them?

 

Were any trains sent via crosstown?

[checkmatechamp13]

Service Change  Posted: 01/04/2017  4:16PM 

 

Due to an investigation at Lexington Av/59 St, the following service changes are in effect:

Northbound  trains are running on the  line from 57 St-7 Av to 96 St.

Northbound  trains are running on the  line from 57 St-7 Av to 36 St-(QNS).

Northbound  trains will terminate at Lexington Av/59 St.

Shuttle train service will operate in Queens between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and Queensboro Plaza.

Allow additional travel time.

 

Wow

 

It sucks nobody knew what was going on. I was planning on taking the straight from 86th Street to Cortlandt Street for the PATH. Had I known it was going to be a mess, I would've switched over to the at 59th (which ended up passing us), and walked down from Canal Street (or 14th Street). Instead, starting around 36th Street, our train was held up behind another , and I watched 2 trains and a pass us (and a pull in at the same time at Pacific Street). 

 

Funny thing was, the train was signed "via 63rd" and I assumed it was just an error, so they did know that there were delays in general. Would've been nice to know so at least people could've prepared backup plans. 

 

  trains were also filling in for trains in Brooklyn...

 

I saw a train running up the 4th Avenue Express that read "via West End". I was on the at Pacific, and we were sent out first. Not sure if that ended up being switched over to the Montague Tunnel, but originally, it read "Broadway Express" and said the next stop was Canal Street. Then the sign changed to "Broadway Local", but it didn't say anything about "via Whitehall Street" when my train pulled out (and at DeKalb, we found out it was going up the 6th Avenue Line)

 

I caught a train on the 6th Ave express uptown. The is conga lined.

 

Same here. 

Funny thing was, the train was signed "via 63rd" and I assumed it was just an error. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by checkmatechamp13

[RailRunRob]

Can they do "smart" service changes to increase the capacity of the line? For example, All 4 lines were running on 63rd. Could they have sent an to bypass 57th Street and Roosevelt Ave since it doesn't normally stop there, but stop at 21st Queensbridge because it's not far from Queens Plaza?  

 

Or send the and super express from Lexington Ave 63rd st to Roosevelt Ave, and let the go local behind them?

 

Were any trains sent via crosstown?

Not fly be wire. Human-based control IMO couldn't handle that type of intricate planning and data deciphering. A computerized system with AVL (vehicle location) probably could. Speed, distance trajectory etc you could create an algorithm. You would just need to take in a large amount of data and process almost in real-time importantly you'd have to know almost all the trains are and predict where they're going to be within a certain margin of error. That kind of system handle the situations your speaking of. That's a ways out the data received via fixed block is far to slow. Maybe in 40-50 years with ATO/CBTC. The IRT will probably be the first. My two cents.

[CenSin]

Not fly be wire. Human-based control IMO couldn't handle that type of intricate planning and data deciphering. A computerized system with AVL (vehicle location) probably could. Speed, distance trajectory etc you could create an algorithm. You would just need to take in a large amount of data and process almost in real-time importantly you'd have to know almost all the trains are and predict where they're going to be within a certain margin of error. That kind of system handle the situations your speaking of. That's a ways out the data received via fixed block is far to slow. Maybe in 40-50 years with ATO/CBTC. The IRT will probably be the first. My two cents.

It’s going to need secured connections with guaranteed maximum latencies. I imagine a network lag would be disastrous to such a system. Incidentally, designing such a network is much like designing for track capacity with bandwidth filling in for trains-per-hour.

[RailRunRob]

It’s going to need secured connections with guaranteed maximum latencies. I imagine a network lag would be disastrous to such a system. Incidentally, designing such a network is much like designing for track capacity with bandwidth filling in for trains-per-hour.

Indeed. It could be done Companies like Uber are processing at that level and beyond using techniques like sharding to up break data and process faster. The cloud makes this a lot cheaper as well for processing. Plus the amount of analytics and data the MTA would get is staggering more accurate averages trip times, dwell, Bottlenecks, Reroute options. Layer in the next generation payment system you might be able to get rider flow on top of the train data set. 

 

PS: Sorry about the previous misspellings factor in multitasking + Mobile then add in moving to fast.. haha. Scattered brain. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by RailRunRob

[Around the Horn]

Layman's opinion here, but could you use the Bluetooth receivers on the trains (used by the Countdown clocks) to determine the spacing, location and call sign of the trains?

[itmaybeokay]

Layman's opinion here, but could you use the Bluetooth receivers on the trains (used by the Countdown clocks) to determine the spacing, location and call sign of the trains?

 

I presume the system that feeds the clocks also gives information to the dispatchers, kind of like ATS. I would be shocked if it did not. 

 

That said, I doubt the "smart reroute" has a lot of viability. 

 

Sure, you could have the rerouted E skip 57th st because it doesn't normally stop there, but what about the passenger that was trying to go to 7av? If the train is rerouted via a line, it should make the stops on that line. Skipping the station, I don't think it would save all that much time, and the level of confusion it would cause seems not with it. 

 

But if you REALLY want to get jiggy with your data - start processing anonymized IMEI's from the Transit Wireless network. 

Say whaaaaaaat?

 

Well, by looking at the stations where an individual phone enters and exits the system, a new, far more granular picture of ridership can be generated. You can pass this through a cryptographic hash or something similar so it's not actually traceable to a particular riders identity to ease privacy concerns. 

 

For bonus points: You can extrapolate the number of passengers within a margin of error aboard a given train. 

Double bonus points: Over days to months, by comparing ridership load to OTP you can extrapolate the future delays on a given train, and perhaps ready a put-in or hold a leading train to help offset. 

[RailRunRob]

Layman's opinion here, but could you use the Bluetooth receivers on the trains (used by the Countdown clocks) to determine the spacing, location and call sign of the trains?

You could the thing with Bluetooth is that it's prone to possible interference. It hates bodies of water including people other wireless devices on the 2.4 Spectrum could also affect performance. The margin of error is very important. You can be off 60-90 seconds with a countdown clock wouldn't really work for predicting were two trains intersect 15min or 4 miles out. They just ratified a new Bluetooth 5.0 standard with better range and data rate we'll see with that. The way as I think someone else stated would be the ATS way of tracking trains with vehicle identification. Maybe building on top of that getting latency down and expanding computing power in real time could work.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[RailRunRob]

I presume the system that feeds the clocks also gives information to the dispatchers, kind of like ATS. I would be shocked if it did not.

 

That said, I doubt the "smart reroute" has a lot of viability.

 

Sure, you could have the rerouted E skip 57th st because it doesn't normally stop there, but what about the passenger that was trying to go to 7av? If the train is rerouted via a line, it should make the stops on that line. Skipping the station, I don't think it would save all that much time, and the level of confusion it would cause seems not with it.

 

But if you REALLY want to get jiggy with your data - start processing anonymized IMEI's from the Transit Wireless network.

Say whaaaaaaat?

 

Well, by looking at the stations where an individual phone enters and exits the system, a new, far more granular picture of ridership can be generated. You can pass this through a cryptographic hash or something similar so it's not actually traceable to a particular riders identity to ease privacy concerns.

 

For bonus points: You can extrapolate the number of passengers within a margin of error aboard a given train.

Double bonus points: Over days to months, by comparing ridership load to OTP you can extrapolate the future delays on a given train, and perhaps ready a put-in or hold a leading train to help offset.

There's going to Be a lot of data the MTA can capitalize on your right about tracking riders. I've helped deployed networks and beacons that can track shoppers in department stores. Same could be used in the subway very easily. We track Mac hardware address. IMEIs are more specific to the carrier and connects more to cell towers you could track using that along with something like GPS/AGPS. Either way the date is there. As far a Smart reroute in theory it could work. The one thing with the subway is that everything is so fluid.The Issue I could see here is dwelltime and the time it would take to update and inform riders of service changes. Bu the time you do all of this and people held your doors for two extra minutes your moment of opportunity to save time would have already fleeted. The window opportunity to optimize based on this system would have to be taken almost immediately without delay. Otherwise there isn't much point for dynamic routing and skipstop. But overall I think it would help during major reroutes during incidents etc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

Edited January 5, 2017 by RailRunRob

[N6 Limited]

I presume the system that feeds the clocks also gives information to the dispatchers, kind of like ATS. I would be shocked if it did not. 

 

That said, I doubt the "smart reroute" has a lot of viability. 

 

Sure, you could have the rerouted E skip 57th st because it doesn't normally stop there, but what about the passenger that was trying to go to 7av? If the train is rerouted via a line, it should make the stops on that line. Skipping the station, I don't think it would save all that much time, and the level of confusion it would cause seems not with it. 

Those going to 7th Ave could wait at Rockefeller center for the or

[checkmatechamp13]

Those going to 7th Ave could wait at Rockefeller center for the or

 

What if their origin/destination was up by Columbus Circle, and 53rd & 7th is the easiest stop to get them into Queens? It's easier to just let them walk over to 57th & 6th if that's easier. (And it's easier than getting people to take the one stop to Lex/63rd)

[N6 Limited]

What if their origin/destination was up by Columbus Circle, and 53rd & 7th is the easiest stop to get them into Queens? It's easier to just let them walk over to 57th & 6th if that's easier. (And it's easier than getting people to take the one stop to Lex/63rd)

Most people don't even check for re-routings before they enter the subway anyway. They might as well just take the to Rockefeller center and cross over for the or rerouted , or walk to 57th & 7th for the

[CenSin]

Indeed. It could be done Companies like Uber are processing at that level and beyond using techniques like sharding to up break data and process faster. The cloud makes this a lot cheaper as well for processing. Plus the amount of analytics and data the MTA would get is staggering more accurate averages trip times, dwell, Bottlenecks, Reroute options. Layer in the next generation payment system you might be able to get rider flow on top of the train data set. 

 

PS: Sorry about the previous misspellings factor in multitasking + Mobile then add in moving to fast.. haha. Scattered brain. 

I wonder if a peer-to-peer network would be the right choice then. Each logical line would be segmented into zones controlled by a collection of nodes. Supernodes supervise these nodes and communicate with other supernodes to anticipate the best routing.

 

Private conversation in group 53 Street

Lexington Avenue/53 Street station says: There seems to be traffic jam building up in the Queens-bound direction.

 

Global conversation

53 Street says: and trains are moving very slowly through the Lexington Avenue/53 Street station.

6 Avenue says: 63 Street, I’m sending trains to you. Hand them back to Queens Boulevard local at the other end.

53 Street says: Queens Boulevard, trains will be coming to you through 63 Street.

8 Avenue says: 6 Avenue, I’m sending trains to you. Hand them back to 53 Street at the other end.

6 Avenue says: 63 Street, I’m also sending trains to you. Hand them back to Queens Boulevard express at the other end.

63 Street says: I should not be taking more trains.

6 Avenue says: Nassau Street, hold the rest of those trains back. We can’t take anymore because of the trains.

 

Private conversation in group Nassau Street

Nassau Street: Essex Street, reconfigure the middle track for terminating Manhattan-bound trains.

 

Global conversation

6 Avenue says: 63 Street, I’m only sending 2 trains to you. There will be no more after those 2.

 

 

And these nodes just talk amongst themselves to figure out the best routing.

[RailRunRob]

I wonder if a peer-to-peer network would be the right choice then. Each logical line would be segmented into zones controlled by a collection of nodes. Supernodes supervise these nodes and communicate with other supernodes to anticipate the best routing.

 

Private conversation in group 53 Street

Lexington Avenue/53 Street station says: There seems to be traffic jam building up in the Queens-bound direction.

 

Global conversation

53 Street says: and trains are moving very slowly through the Lexington Avenue/53 Street station.

6 Avenue says: 63 Street, I’m sending trains to you. Hand them back to Queens Boulevard local at the other end.

53 Street says: Queens Boulevard, trains will be coming to you through 63 Street.

8 Avenue says: 6 Avenue, I’m sending trains to you. Hand them back to 53 Street at the other end.

6 Avenue says: 63 Street, I’m also sending trains to you. Hand them back to Queens Boulevard express at the other end.

63 Street says: I should not be taking more trains.

6 Avenue says: Nassau Street, hold the rest of those trains back. We can’t take anymore because of the trains.

 

Private conversation in group Nassau Street

Nassau Street: Essex Street, reconfigure the middle track for terminating Manhattan-bound trains.

 

Global conversation

6 Avenue says: 63 Street, I’m only sending 2 trains to you. There will be no more after those 2.

 

 

And these nodes just talk amongst themselves to figure out the best routing.

Umm.. Sounds a lot like what Uber engineering has going on especially with their autonomous technology.  I could see this. This probably is the better way to manage such a large system.With the blocks speaking to each other when needed. When things are overwhelming there's a saying. "Eat the elephant!" Code for break it down into more manageable portions.  After all, they have been managing signaling in blocks for over 100 years (Even tho they see it all nowadays). Again the only issues I see in such a fluid System with so many moving parts is the system thinks and moves a lot faster than people. Load time. updating passengers I think it could start with help human dispatchers better management bandwidth and routing. I think from there you can scale to more automatic options. But this makes sense.

Edited January 7, 2017 by RailRunRob

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Who let the reference slip out?

 

QNS, A and S Trains, Switch Problems

s/b and Rockaway Park trains are running with delays, due to switch problems at Broad Channel. Allow additional travel time.

 

1/7/17 5:45 PM

NYC

Edit: they fixed it 5 minutes later

Edited January 7, 2017 by RestrictOnTheHanger

[CenSin]

Umm.. Sounds a lot like what Uber engineering has going on especially with their autonomous technology.  I could see this. This probably is the better way to manage such a large system.With the blocks speaking to each other when needed. When things are overwhelming there's a saying. "Eat the elephant!" Code for break it down into more manageable portions.  After all, they have been managing signaling in blocks for over 100 years (Even tho they see it all nowadays). Again the only issues I see in such a fluid System with so many moving parts is the system thinks and moves a lot faster than people. Load time. updating passengers I think it could start with help human dispatchers better management bandwidth and routing. I think from there you can scale to more automatic options. But this makes sense.

And it should be even deeper than I described it with station nodes communicating with individual trains to change the announcement to reflect the current conditions (delays, reroutes, service cuts, service bonuses, etc.). Even the printed subway maps in trains should be replaced by a touchscreen map that changes in real time. That is probably the first place to apply automation with the overall system continuing to be managed by people until it can slowly be weened.

[itmaybeokay]

Service Change  Posted: 01/09/2017  8:20AM 
 

Due to a water condition at W 4 St-Washington Sq, the following service changes are in effect:

Some southbound  and  trains are running on the  line from 59 St-Columbus Circle to W 4 St-Washington Sq.

Southbound  trains are running on the  line from Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av to W 4 St-Washington Sq.

Some southbound  are running on the  line from Court Sq to Bergen St.

There is no  train service between Forest Hills-71 Av and Essex St in both directions.

Expect delays in ,, , , ,  and  train service.

Allow additional travel time.'

woooooowwwww that's a bad monday morning. 

[Daniel The Cool]

According to the news the whole water condition was caused by snow melting which is not surprising but sad.

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170109/greenwich-village/subway-service-monday-rush-hour-mta-trains

[S78 via Hylan]

According to the news the whole water condition was caused by snow melting which is not surprising but sad.

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170109/greenwich-village/subway-service-monday-rush-hour-mta-trains

Sad? There was nothing that could be done. Things like this are bound to happen in the winter.

[Daniel The Cool]

Sad? There was nothing that could be done. Things like this are bound to happen in the winter.

You misread my comment when I said sad. I meant that it was sad that it messed up alot of lines and that it was pretty bad. I know it's the Winter and with the crazy weather lately was bound to happen and that its not their fault at all. I remember something like this happened a few years back on the . 

[Eric B]

The delays got so bad, the (to Chambers) borrowed at least one R32, and I had it on one trip, and then ran it to BWJ when it was being given back to the when the situation began clearing up.

[GojiMet86]

That photo is floating around on Facebook: