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CenSin

Second Avenue Subway Discussion

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Excellent. That’s the alternative I prefer too, especially if Phase 2 is indeed going to come close to the $6 billion figure that’s been mentioned on here multiple times. Though there would be multiple steps and studies required just to get to the day ground is broken on Phase 2 if they decided to send it into The Bronx.

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1 hour ago, Porter said:

I modified Jake Berman's map to show my preferred Phase 2:

The link broke...

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Excellent:

And from 149th/3rd I would recapture the old Bronx portion of the 3rd Avenue EL (either as EL or subway), consolidating many of the old stops between there and Gun Hill Road as not as many stops would be needed with the stations much longer than their original counterparts.

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3 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Excellent:

And from 149th/3rd I would recapture the old Bronx portion of the 3rd Avenue EL (either as EL or subway), consolidating many of the old stops between there and Gun Hill Road as not as many stops would be needed with the stations much longer than their original counterparts.

My thoughts exactly. I've detested Phase 2 ever since discovering that it wouldn't send the SAS to The Bronx. If the goal is to alleviate crowding on the (4)(5)(6), then having the SAS go to at least 3rd Ave-149th Street is a must. The actually Phase 2 plan seems to needless complicated, with a sharp curve onto 125th and having to be incredible deep underground in order to avoid disturbing both the IRT Station and the Metro-North Station. Granted, building a new tunnel in between Manhattan and The Bronx ain't cheap. 

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The one flaw I see on the map is the lack of a 125th Street station, which even on 2nd Avenue to me would be necessary for going to the Bronx to work.  

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1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

The one flaw I see on the map is the lack of a 125th Street station, which even on 2nd Avenue to me would be necessary for going to the Bronx to work.  

Another line would curve over to 125th & Lexington anyway; the Bronx line needs to deep-dive early to get under the water, and the fewer stations the cheaper.

For those of you interested in a PDF version of the whole map: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pk2y2wi8npd737k/MTA_map_20XX.pdf?dl=0

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For 6 billion in another US city we could get to Claremont, and in a normal country we could get to Fordham Plaza. Unfortunately I don't see any reduction in costs unless Molinaro is elected, which has a rather low chance of happening, and even with that I wouldn't expect more than a 5-10% decrease in costs at best because of politics.

 

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On 9/27/2018 at 8:17 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

For 6 billion in another US city we could get to Claremont, and in a normal country we could get to Fordham Plaza. Unfortunately I don't see any reduction in costs unless Molinaro is elected, which has a rather low chance of happening, and even with that I wouldn't expect more than a 5-10% decrease in costs at best because of politics.

Yup, sadly I don't see this project staying within or meeting budget under Cuomo's godforsaken reign; I feel that other factors like potential economic struggles (say for instance) will play a larger role than politics since it seems to have been rather unaffecting during phase 1 IIRC, compared to other projects like Fulton St.. About the 6 billion dollar point  you brought up however, it is extreme, but expected since you have to realize this city is one of the most expensive to build in, costs will always be higher than perceived since New York isn't cheap. A far bigger concern for me is the amount of benefits we'll receive by the time the it opens (a long time away). With the growth of our system already steadily rising, it might barely make a difference in the issue of crowds and what not by then.  

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On 9/27/2018 at 7:32 PM, Porter said:

Another line would curve over to 125th & Lexington anyway; the Bronx line needs to deep-dive early to get under the water, and the fewer stations the cheaper.

For those of you interested in a PDF version of the whole map: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pk2y2wi8npd737k/MTA_map_20XX.pdf?dl=0

Not if you use the immersed tunnel method. The Harlem River isn't THAT deep. Just seep enough for barges. 

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9 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Not if you use the immersed tunnel method. The Harlem River isn't THAT deep. Just seep enough for barges. 

I've never actually been to the Harlem River, but now that I see photographs, I realize just how incredibly narrow it is. A tunnel under it really shouldn't be that big of a deal indeed. In fact, I'd say it would be easier and cheaper than curving from 116th to 125th under all those buildings.

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3 hours ago, Porter said:

I've never actually been to the Harlem River, but now that I see photographs, I realize just how incredibly narrow it is. A tunnel under it really shouldn't be that big of a deal indeed. In fact, I'd say it would be easier and cheaper than curving from 116th to 125th under all those buildings.

That definitely could work.  Politically might be the biggest hurdle to moving the line there,

Also ask this because I had previously suggested having a branch of the line head towards Randalls Island, LGA and potentially Willets Point and later JFK from the SAS with a stop at 124th from 2nd to 1st Avenue before heading that way.

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5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Politically might be the biggest hurdle to moving the line there,

I never understood what politicians had against the Bronx.

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