Wallyhorse Posted February 12, 2012 Share #176 Posted February 12, 2012 Phase 2 can be built. The tunnels to it already exists. All you need to do is add signals, and stations, but it exists. It was built in the 1970's, but phase 3 hasn't been built and there isn't even any existing tunnel segment down there. So it is still uncertain. Existing sections in black. Phase 2 is almost certain to get built because of the existing tunnel space. At worst, we likely would get a reduced Phase 2 to 116th Streets since most of that was built in the 1970s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted February 12, 2012 Share #177 Posted February 12, 2012 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted February 12, 2012 Share #178 Posted February 12, 2012 I wonder how long it is going to take to drill those short little sections around 106th, and to 125th. It's a fraction of phase 1. Wonder if when the borer (assuming it starts at 106th), when it connects the teo existing sections, could then just be driven to the final section and continue drilling, without having to be disassembled, taken out, reassembled and lowered in again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #179 Posted February 12, 2012 I wonder how long it is going to take to drill those short little sections around 106th, and to 125th. It's a fraction of phase 1.Wonder if when the borer (assuming it starts at 106th), when it connects the teo existing sections, could then just be driven to the final section and continue drilling, without having to be disassembled, taken out, reassembled and lowered in again. It's going to be dug using the cut and cover method. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted February 12, 2012 Share #180 Posted February 12, 2012 Smh... you guys actually think that they're going to continue on with the construction if they actually do complete it to 96th? I live near and pass by the construction every day, and I don't see an end to this any time soon. The MTA's really screwing over the Upper East Side. First we get hit hard with the elimination of 2 bus routes, now they mess up 2nd Avenue and at 86th Street it's only one lane in each direction which, along with the rest of 2nd Avenue, is always backed up during rush hour. Also, originally 2012 was the completion date they projected, but now it's been pushed back to 2017 or 2018... do you guys seriously believe that they're not going to push it back any more? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #181 Posted February 12, 2012 Smh... you guys actually think that they're going to continue on with the construction if they actually do complete it to 96th? I live near and pass by the construction every day, and I don't see an end to this any time soon. The MTA's really screwing over the Upper East Side. First we get hit hard with the elimination of 2 bus routes, now they mess up 2nd Avenue and at 86th Street it's only one lane in each direction which, along with the rest of 2nd Avenue, is always backed up during rush hour. Also, originally 2012 was the completion date they projected, but now it's been pushed back to 2017 or 2018... do you guys seriously believe that they're not going to push it back any more? The northbound tunnel is already done. They are working on the southbound tunnel. They also need to install equipment and build the stations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted February 12, 2012 Share #182 Posted February 12, 2012 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #183 Posted February 12, 2012 the area between the pre exisitng sections is supposed to be just dug out cut and cover I have read that cut and cover is the fastest method of tunnel construction. If it is true I wonder why don't we just use this method to build the entire Second Avenue Subway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Line1291 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #184 Posted February 12, 2012 The cut and cover would rip apart 2nd Ave and really hurt businesses and piss off residents... well tunnel bore sorta does the same thing (correct me if i'm wrong). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 12, 2012 Share #185 Posted February 12, 2012 I don't have to contribute anything. If you wanna get technical about it, the OP asked a simple question about whats gonna happen with the once the SAS opens (whenev that will be) and I'm pretty sure it was answered with a "just wait and see" since none of us knows the definite answer, and as I first posted, people threw the amd now the in it. Now what exactly did you contribute to this thread other than more unessecary reroutes or unlikely new service patterns To be fair my point about the was because of service cuts and the possible need of 2 lines serving Astoria. After that i have no control over what people made about possible route setups. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 12, 2012 Share #186 Posted February 12, 2012 The cut and cover would rip apart 2nd Ave and really hurt businesses and piss off residents... well tunnel bore sorta does the same thing (correct me if i'm wrong). Only in the lauch box area is where you would see the most construction (to a certain extent). Other than that, there's little to no damage To be fair my point about the was because of service cuts and the possible need of 2 lines serving Astoria. After that i have no control over what people made about possible route setups. It wasn't directed towards you GC, don't worry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTimer Posted February 12, 2012 Share #187 Posted February 12, 2012 It would get some ridership, but less than what you might think. Co-op will use it a lot as its a 30 min schlep to a subway station (except those who are lucky enough to live near the footbridge that goes to Baychester Av ). Parkchester not so much, it may go a long way towards eliminating the need for an express bus line here though. Parkchester will use the station too, but lets not make it like its subway station is going to be barren because of it. "Morris Park" might use it more, although the station would probably be bypassed non-rush hours like the other MNR stations in the Bronx. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #188 Posted February 12, 2012 I found out that a tunnel shield is the fastest and easiest tunnel construction method. BUILDING BIG: The Tunnel Challenge I don't know if it can be used in NYC though because of the bedrock we have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted February 12, 2012 Share #189 Posted February 12, 2012 I found out that a tunnel shield is the fastest and easiest tunnel construction method. BUILDING BIG: The Tunnel Challenge I don't know if it can be used in NYC though because of the bedrock we have. Well, TBM is essentially an evolution of a shield. Shield was originally designed at the dawn of 19th century in England. It required manual labor and was effective because of the soft ground under Thames river. Here though, the original shield would take forever to dig through the rocks. With that said, the TBMs only differ based on the requirements for specific job. Thus machine designed to tunnel in soft ground conditions (London, Moscow, etc.) won't cut it in New York. It is also one of the reasons why those machines aren't used again after they are done digging. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted February 12, 2012 Share #190 Posted February 12, 2012 It would get some ridership, but less than what you might think. Co-op will use it a lot as its a 30 min schlep to a subway station (except those who are lucky enough to live near the footbridge that goes to Baychester Av ). Parkchester not so much, it may go a long way towards eliminating the need for an express bus line here though. Parkchester will use the station too, but lets not make it like its subway station is going to be barren because of it. "Morris Park" might use it more, although the station would probably be bypassed non-rush hours like the other MNR stations in the Bronx. Reverse Commuters will use these stops, just like they use Fordham (and would relieve the crowding there) and Marble Hill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #191 Posted February 12, 2012 Well, TBM is essentially an evolution of a shield. Shield was originally designed at the dawn of 19th century in England. It required manual labor and was effective because of the soft ground under Thames river. Here though, the original shield would take forever to dig through the rocks. With that said, the TBMs only differ based on the requirements for specific job. Thus machine designed to tunnel in soft ground conditions (London, Moscow, etc.) won't cut it in New York. It is also one of the reasons why those machines aren't used again after they are done digging. Then I guess the cut and cover method is the fastest way to dig a subway for NYC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #192 Posted February 12, 2012 There is also a station at Hunt's Point, but it's located near the so more people would opt for the cheaper option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted February 12, 2012 Share #193 Posted February 12, 2012 Then I guess the cut and cover method is the fastest way to dig a subway for NYC. Not only is faster, it's the only method which easily allows for >2 tracks. Unlike deep bore method, C&C is strictly limited to the characteristics of the street under which the line would be running. But today the use of TBM is not a privilege, it is a necessity. Take for example the portion of track where SAS branches off 63rd Street. It's a wide curve, which lies under blocks of developed neighborhood, rendering cut and cover useless (unless one is willing to tear down the blocks). While cut and cover is cheaper, it is difficult to use it today, especially in densely populated neighborhood such as UES. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #194 Posted February 12, 2012 Not only is faster, it's the only method which easily allows for >2 tracks. Unlike deep bore method, C&C is strictly limited to the characteristics of the street under which the line would be running.But today the use of TBM is not a privilege, it is a necessity. Take for example the portion of track where SAS branches off 63rd Street. It's a wide curve, which lies under blocks of developed neighborhood, rendering cut and cover useless (unless one is willing to tear down the blocks). While cut and cover is cheaper, it is difficult to use it today, especially in densely populated neighborhood such as UES. You can use eminent domain and say that it is for the greater good. Then you can still raze their homes and businesses and relocate them, or when the construction for the subway is done you can have the buildings rebuilt and have the tenants move back in. In Japan they did that for a skyscraper project. They bought the property and promised the tenants that they would be allowed to move back in which they did. You won't have complaints if you do that and everyone wins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NX Express Posted February 12, 2012 Share #195 Posted February 12, 2012 You won't have complaints if you do that Do you seriously think that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #196 Posted February 12, 2012 Do you seriously think that? It's temporary. They can move back in once construction is done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted February 12, 2012 Share #197 Posted February 12, 2012 You can use eminent domain and say that it is for the greater good. Then you can still raze their homes and businesses and relocate them, or when the construction for the subway is done you can have the buildings rebuilt and have the tenants move back in. In Japan they did that for a skyscraper project. They bought the property and promised the tenants that they would be allowed to move back in which they did. You won't have complaints if you do that and everyone wins. Skyscraper and set of tunnels are two different things. If one was to remove the people from the area in order to construct the subway line, then who would the line serve? Besides the said person/entity would spend more money and time buying people off, rather then building the line. IMO, it is also incorrect to compare Japan and the US, as they are two vastly different cultures. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #198 Posted February 12, 2012 Skyscraper and set of tunnels are two different things. If one was to remove the people from the area in order to construct the subway line, then who would the line serve? Besides the said person/entity would spend more money and time buying people off, rather then building the line. IMO, it is also incorrect to compare Japan and the US, as they are two vastly different cultures. Not for the entire line. Only at places where it is required to remove people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overclocked Posted February 12, 2012 Share #199 Posted February 12, 2012 Not for the entire line. Only at places where it is required to remove people. But why would removal of people be necessary? There is always an alternative, which most likely be cheaper (considering New York, that is). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share #200 Posted February 12, 2012 But why would removal of people be necessary? There is always an alternative, which most likely be cheaper (considering New York, that is). So you are suggesting a mix of cut and cover and TBM work right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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