Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Javier]

So theyre gonna be running trains through incomplete stations along Second Avenue to test the rail? This was never the case for 34th Hudson, they tan a few trains there every month before it opened. A week before it opened, they started running light trains to 34th St to train the crews.

[trainfan22]

Every B div T/O will get trained, so that will take quite some time I'd imagine.

 

The stations are probably mostly complete at track/platform level, its the mezzanines and street level entrances that's still U/C. If some work is still being done at platform level, just go though the station slowly like how they pass though closed stations getting rehab work.

Edited September 27, 2016 by trainfan22

[Eric B]

The work program says so. Also the MTA said the 96 Street crew room will be active by October.

The work program reflects the final service pattern, but there's supposed to be a supplement that goes into effect first, showing it going only to 57th.

[Wallyhorse]

There will be various storage tracks, including above the curve at 125th St, and between 21st and 9th. (Plus tail tracks.)

 

The maintenance yard will be Coney Island, accessed via a new, dedicated turnout from Phase 3 track to the 63rd St tunnel. More specifically, from the FEIS: 

Saw they were also considering 207 for such.  Perhaps so they can have the option later of going to 207, perhaps as a Phase 2A they could extend Phase 2 as previously suggested to 125th and Broadway (for reasons I well noted previously) with a connection to the 8th Avenue line at 125th/St. Nicholas Avenue.  That would give the SAS access to 207 in addition to Coney Island and provide for a 125th Street Crosstown with additional stations at Lenox, St. Nicholas and Broadway and transfers to all other lines that stop at 125. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Wallyhorse

[CenSin]

Every B div T/O will get trained, so that will take quite some time I'd imagine.

 

The stations are probably mostly complete at track/platform level, its the mezzanines and street level entrances that's still U/C. If some work is still being done at platform level, just go though the station slowly like how they pass though closed stations getting rehab work.

I imagine these stations will be much easier to operate a train through versus older infrastructure. These new stations are designed with modern standards in mind such as lack of curves, upgrades, and downgrades at and in the immediate vicinity of the platforms. Timers should be much less of a bother along 2 Avenue.

[Lance]

Saw they were also considering 207 for such.  Perhaps so they can have the option later of going to 207, perhaps as a Phase 2A they could extend Phase 2 as previously suggested to 125th and Broadway (for reasons I well noted previously) with a connection to the 8th Avenue line at 125th/St. Nicholas Avenue.  That would give the SAS access to 207 in addition to Coney Island and provide for a 125th Street Crosstown with additional stations at Lenox, St. Nicholas and Broadway and transfers to all other lines that stop at 125. 

The plan for 207th Street under that FEIS blurb has nothing to do with a potential track connection to the 8th Avenue line at all. It specifically mentioned that an expansion of the Concourse and 207th Street yards would allow for more 2nd Avenue trains to be stored at Coney Island, which would be the most direct yard for the line. Under such a plan, it wouldn't be out the question for the to return to 207th Street or be shifted to the Concourse with the .

[Cone E Island]

Hopefully, Lexington Ave traffic improves by at least early November.

[Mysterious2train]

Got an email from the MTA; bus lane and bike lane striping is going to begin tonight along 2 Av from 105 St to 88 St (where surface construction has finished) 

[CenSin]

Hopefully, Lexington Ave traffic improves by at least early November.

It’s going to relieve the pressure on 7 stations in Manhattan: 96 Street, 86 Street, 77 Street, 68 Street–Hunter College, 59 Street, 14 Street–Union Square, and Canal Street. The effect might extend to stations in Brooklyn such as Nevins Street and Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center since Upper East Siders have faster option.

[Porter]

November 6

 

*7

[Javier]

So there is a to 96th ST program in the works as well.

[Lance]

That does not surprise me if it's true. I'd imagine that any route that could reasonably reach 96 Street would have new route options coded into the 160s. That likely means that all Broadway and 6th Avenue routes will have these options programmed in.

[Javier]

Exactly. I don't know if this is the same case for 72nd or 86th St. There was or still is (idk) a Q to 72nd St program, who knows if that will be the case for this as well.

[CenSin]

Exactly. I don't know if this is the same case for 72nd or 86th St. There was or still is (idk) a Q to 72nd St program, who knows if that will be the case for this as well.

They should leave it in just because there are switches that make it possible. It should also serve as a reminder of what could have been.

[Far rockaway]

When the second ave line opens in December, will the q train stop at lexington ave 59 street still or no. since it will stop at 63rd street and lexington ave?

[rbrome]

When the second ave line opens in December, will the q train stop at lexington ave 59 street still or no. since it will stop at 63rd street and lexington ave?

 

 

No. It will diverge from the N/R at 57 St-7 Av and use a "new" (refurbished, technically) tunnel under Central Park to join the F at Lexington Av/63 St. There's an interactive map available here:

 

http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_alt.html

[Lance]

To add on, the will use the express tracks north of 57 Street, curving under Central Park to connect with the using the opposite tracks on the upper and lower levels. From then, the will curve north to hit the new stations on 2nd Avenue.

 

For those interested, the last time the connection between 57 St-7 Av and Lexington Av-63 St were used in normal operations was in 1998 when construction work necessitated the shutdown of the 6th Ave/63rd St connection. During this shutdown a Broadway shuttle operated from 21 St-Queensbridge to 57 St-7 Av and was later extended to 34 St-Herald Sq on the express tracks. (Remember, the Broadway express tracks were otherwise out of service due to Manhattan Bridge reconstruction.)

[Javier]

Didn't the or the orange use that connection as well before the became the Broadway Express?

[Porter]

Didn't the or the orange use that connection as well before the became the Broadway Express?

 

No, the and used the tunnel through which the currently travels. It was the yellow (why don't we have that bullet?) that used this tunnel in 1998.

[Lance]

It was the yellow (why don't we have that bullet?)

That bullet, along with several others, will be added in a later update.

[CenSin]

That does not surprise me if it's true. I'd imagine that any route that could reasonably reach 96 Street would have new route options coded into the 160s. That likely means that all Broadway and 6th Avenue routes will have these options programmed in.

Lexington Avenue/63 Street is connected to just about everything. At the northern end, the station connects to 96 Street, Jamaica–179 Street, Jamaica Center–Parsons/Archer. But going south:

• Bay Ridge–95 Street
• Canarsie–Rockaway Parkway
• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue
• Far Rockaway–Mott Avenue
• Jamaica Center–Parsons/Archer
• Middle Village–Metropolitan Avenue
• Ozone Park–Lefferts Boulevard
• Rockaway Park–Beach 116 Street
• World Trade Center

Broad Street is not reachable, but it’s more of a through station than a terminal.

 

I just wonder how far they will go:

• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line or Broadway Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line
• to 96 Street through the Jamaica Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line or Broadway Line

Edited October 8, 2016 by CenSin

[Around the Horn]

Update time!

 

Lexington Av-63 Street: 99% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2063rd%20-%20October%202016.pdf)

72nd Street: 90.3% complete (link leads to September newsletter, which was posted twice (by accident)

86 Street: 92.5% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2086th%20-%20October%202016.pdf)

96 Street: 95.8% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2096th%20-%20October%202016.pdf)

 

The entire project is 97.2% complete with most of that being completing tests.

 

According to the newsletters, tracks have been energized and test trains have already been running the full length of the line.

Tree planting and sidewalk restoration kicks into high gear next week.

 

It's happening folks!

[CenSin]

Update time!

 

Lexington Av-63 Street: 99% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2063rd%20-%20October%202016.pdf)

72nd Street: 90.3% complete (link leads to September newsletter, which was posted twice (by accident)

86 Street: 92.5% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2086th%20-%20October%202016.pdf)

96 Street: 95.8% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2096th%20-%20October%202016.pdf)

 

The entire project is 97.2% complete with most of that being completing tests.

 

According to the newsletters, tracks have been energized and test trains have already been running the full length of the line.

Tree planting and sidewalk restoration kicks into high gear next week.

 

It's happening folks!

They should just have the skip 72 Street and 86 Street if it doesn’t get finished on-time. It’ll bring the benefits of a more efficient terminal to the Broadway Line and give a cross-platform transfer to the that is superior to the at Jackson Heights–Roosevelt Avenue without having to wait for the stragglers to finish up.

[Lance]

 

Lexington Avenue/63 Street is connected to just about everything. At the northern end, the station connects to 96 Street, Jamaica–179 Street, Jamaica Center–Parsons/Archer. But going south:

• Bay Ridge–95 Street
• Canarsie–Rockaway Parkway
• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue
• Far Rockaway–Mott Avenue
• Jamaica Center–Parsons/Archer
• Middle Village–Metropolitan Avenue
• Ozone Park–Lefferts Boulevard
• Rockaway Park–Beach 116 Street
• World Trade Center

Broad Street is not reachable, but it’s more of a through station than a terminal.

 

I just wonder how far they will go:

• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line or Broadway Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line
• to 96 Street through the Jamaica Line
• to 96 Street through the 6 Avenue Line or Broadway Line

 

It all depends on the creativity of the programmers and the storage limitations of the hardware. I don't see them adding route options for lines outside the 6th Avenue and Broadway lines, but I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

They should just have the skip 72 Street and 86 Street if it doesn’t get finished on-time. It’ll bring the benefits of a more efficient terminal to the Broadway Line and give a cross-platform transfer to the that is superior to the at Jackson Heights–Roosevelt Avenue without having to wait for the stragglers to finish up.

We both know that isn't going to happen. It will be all or nothing.

[rbrome]

They should just have the skip 72 Street and 86 Street if it doesn’t get finished on-time. ...

 

We both know that isn't going to happen. It will be all or nothing.

 

I know Pendergast keeps saying that, but does anyone really believe it?

 

In fact, a friend of mine involved in the project recently told me: 

1. There's absolutely no way the whole thing is opening on time. 
2. They are very seriously looking into the option of opening it without some stations (probably 72nd).