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Second Avenue Subway Discussion


CenSin

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Honestly, as I've said before, nothing can be done once shovels go in the ground. It takes years to plan a subway and I doubt they've even thought about designing an under river tunnel. To at least have the plans anyway.

 

This is where my frustration comes from. Not just because of how things have been handled, nor about the inflated costs slowing the process of everything, but the fact that I would be a user of the service. I don't live in The Bronx (yet), but my mom lives within a five minute walk to what would be the Fordham Plaza station meaning I'd be a regular user.

 

I've seen how much a subway is needed with my own eyes as long as 10 years ago. Before I started gaining the knowledge I have to understand why.

 

My frustration comes from the lack of care from my government about the people of some of the poorest sections of this city.

 

And worst if all, the fact that like most ambitions for this subway, a Bronx extension will probably never see reality.

 

Sent from my N9132 using Tapatalk

Edited by LTA1992
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Could it be that the (MTA) generally favors Manhattan over the Bronx? If so, I bet that there's a reason, even if unspoken.

 

That's not a secret, considering all expansion projects in the last decade have been in Manhattan. The primary impetus derives from developers who want to redevelop WTC, Hudson Yards, and the East Side. In the current environment, the only potential candidate for a new subway line in the outer boroughs would be a Queens Bypass line for developing the Sunnyside Yards upon the completion of SAS Phase 3.

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That's not a secret, considering all expansion projects in the last decade have been in Manhattan. The primary impetus derives from developers who want to redevelop WTC, Hudson Yards, and the East Side. In the current environment, the only potential candidate for a new subway line in the outer boroughs would be a Queens Bypass line for developing the Sunnyside Yards upon the completion of SAS Phase 3.

I've had the opportunity to talk to many people in management positions in NYCT over the years. This includes mass transit advocates as well as those I consider political types. I believe BrooklynBus, as an insider, and B35, as an observer, in the Surface forums understand where I'm coming from. The (MTA), when talking strictly NYCT, appears to be a real estate promoter rather than a mass transit advocate. That's my opinion and it's held by many in NYCT.  It's as if the Bronx, parts of Queens, Brooklyn, and the whole of Staten Island don't exist in the (MTA) planners vision except as they relate to Manhattan. Even the proponents of the 125th St crosstown segment of the SAS seem to overlook the fact that over the years Metro-North has decreased the amount of service stopping at the 125th St stop. The overlooked fact about the Central Harlem area surrounding 125th St and extending northward is that any population increase up there is basically replacing the housing and population loss from the 1960's through the '90's. I've always pointed out the apparent neglect of existing neighborhoods' transportation needs in the outer boroughs while Hudson Yards or the overpriced Fulton Tansit Center and the like get all the press. I have noticed some posters mentioning the new office construction in the Grand Central area and that there should be subway improvements because of this and the LIRR East Side Access at GC. Someone mentioned how many new people would be introduced to the area which makes these new proposals an immediate necessity. It's this way of thinking that seems to drive the (MTA) and some railfans way of thinking. I'm not saying there will be no increase in foot traffic in the area but the projected increase is bogus on it's face. East Side Access only splits the LI ridership between Penn Station and Grand Central. In other words it's probably the same amount of ridership coming into the Grand Central area but they're coming in directly rather than coming over from Penn Station. BTW the whole idea is a sop to people coming from the other end of Long Island but does next to nothing for the Long Islanders who reside in NYC. That's Brooklyn and Queens residents for those who weren't taught that in school. I'm still waiting for the (MTA) to show some love for the New York City residents already here and don't have the developer's clout. I'm not saying the (MTA) should ignore what's happening in the NYC real estate community. What I am saying is that the (MTA) adhere to it's supposed core mission of improving mass transit and stop waving pom-poms for billionaire developers. Just my opinion though. Carry on.

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Could it be that the (MTA) generally favors Manhattan over the Bronx? If so, I bet that there's a reason, even if unspoken.

 

Every transportation project, from the original els to the original IRT to the 7 Line Extension and BQX today, has been primarily to serve real estate interests. No more, no less,

 

I'm not saying there will be no increase in foot traffic in the area but the projected increase is bogus on it's face. East Side Access only splits the LI ridership between Penn Station and Grand Central. In other words it's probably the same amount of ridership coming into the Grand Central area but they're coming in directly rather than coming over from Penn Station. BTW the whole idea is a sop to people coming from the other end of Long Island but does next to nothing for the Long Islanders who reside in NYC.

 

East Side Access is a crap project that is literally the most expensive tunnel in the world and ridiculously late (2023 and $12B). Unfortunately, it's not getting cancelled any time soon, and day 1 we will have Long Islanders who can't take Atlantic trains anymore switch to GCT, and people who don't like Penn will switch to GCT, which means the hand for SAS is kind of forced.

 

At least SAS Phase III has use for outer-borough residents; you can't use the other half of 63rd St tunnel capacity unless you have somewhere in Manhattan to send it, and SAS Phase III is the only thing that fits the bill.

Edited by bobtehpanda
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Even the proponents of the 125th St crosstown segment of the SAS seem to overlook the fact that over the years Metro-North has decreased the amount of service stopping at the 125th St stop. The overlooked fact about the Central Harlem area surrounding 125th St and extending northward is that any population increase up there is basically replacing the housing and population loss from the 1960's through the '90's. 

That is true, but even that is coming back with a lot of new development there.

 

The main reason for a 125th Street crosstown is besides the fact such would connect to ALL of the other lines on 125 (including the (1) and possibly a NEW Metro-North stop at 125th Street/12th Avenue if Metro-North gets Penn Station access as is also planned) is the fact that Columbia University is undergoing a MASSIVE expansion that will be complete by the time the SAS reached Broadway/125.  This would up make it easier for those who want to go to Columbia to live on the Upper East Side and likely also spur more new development in Harlem beyond what is already being done (and there are a lot of areas of east Harlem that can and likely will get built up).  That's why a full crosstown on 125 should be part of an extended Phase 2 (or Phase 2A) if possible.

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If there was a lot of money to spare, I'd suggest that the 125 Street Crosstown goes directly to Queens and serves College Point and other neighborhoods in the area.

 

In general, you don't want lines that aren't radial or circumferential. A College Point line should probably be running under Northern Blvd, and the 125 St line should be linking up with the Triboro RX or SAS.

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