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Second Avenue Subway Discussion

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The mta will not extend the sas to the bronx just b/c a bunch of railfans want the sas to go to the bronx.

 

I mean "a bunch of railfans" in this thread actually explained why SAS should be extended to/from the Bronx...it's certainly not "just b/c they want the sas to go to the bronx"...

Edited by RollOver
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The Bronx is not the MAIN idea right now, look it up online, do your research right now the focus is to get the Second Av Subway line finished in MAHNATTAN. The Bronx may or may not need another subway line. Once Phase one is finished then lets talk.

It may not be the main focus but a terminal in The Bronx located at 3rd Avenue-149th Street would be the most optimal and most useful terminal for Phase II of the SAS. And yes, I am aware of how expensive an under river tunnel is but it will continue to get more expensive as the years continue. The Bronx needs two new subway lines and Phase II terminating in The Bronx will solidify that.

 

Also, you say "Let's talk after Phase One is complete", but guess what, any organization seriously wanting to finish a phased project would have ALREADY secured phase II for construction. You don't wait until the first part is complete to begin planning the second part. The second part should be ready for shovels to go in the ground by the time part one is complete. Repetitive phrasing, I know. But it's truth. The phased approach is flawed as is and frankly, I think Phases one and two should have been a single phase. This plan needs change.

 

Ask Bronx residents yourselves. Since, you know, they may be the main ones taking it in the first place when Phase Two is done.

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No. See my response to Javier above.

It was exactly why I formatted my response the way I did. I rarely use the "?!" combination.

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@Wallyhorse: I'm not hard on you simply because I want to, but rather because your ideas have little to no basis in reality. The likelihood of any form of the 3rd Avenue elevated returning is non-existent. You'd have an easier time trying to sell a Webster Ave subway over a rebuild of the long-demolished elevated line.

I'm sure it's unlikely the 3rd Avenue El ever gets rebuilt in any form, but if that is the only option to return rail service and extend the SAS to the Bronx, I don't think people there would act all NIMBY about it now like they would have even 10 years ago, especially as older generations who actually remember the old Els die off (looking at it as a trade-off to having more convenient subway service in many instances).

 

Also, I do think it's quite possible that down the road if all of the building in Manhattan that is expected to take place does, you would need BOTH a full SAS AND a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El to handle all the additional riders, especially if more areas become gentrified, with a 3rd Avenue El being the price of gentrification down the road.

Edited by Wallyhorse

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I'm sure it's unlikely the 3rd Avenue El ever gets rebuilt in any form, but if that is the only option to return rail service and extend the SAS to the Bronx, I don't think people there would act all NIMBY about it now like they would have even 10 years ago, especially as older generations who actually remember the old Els die off (looking at it as a trade-off to having more convenient subway service in many instances).

 

Also, I do think it's quite possible that down the road if all of the building in Manhattan that is expected to take place does, you would need BOTH a full SAS AND a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El to handle all the additional riders, especially if more areas become gentrified, with a 3rd Avenue El being the price of gentrification down the road.

 

The "old Els" still exist. Chunks were falling off the Jamaica Line, Astoria Line, and Flushing Line in the bad old days as well. All people need to do is look at Astoria or Roosevelt Av or WPR to see what an el looks like and get turned off by the idea.

 

You make it sound like an el is the only option to go up north, or will be presented as such, when it really isn't.

Edited by bobtehpanda
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The mta will not extend the sas to the bronx just b/c a bunch of railfans want the sas to go to the bronx.

People along third avenue want a train back ever since the 3rd Avenue El was taken away!

 

Also, a line to Throggs Neck is needed!

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The "old Els" still exist. Chunks were falling off the Jamaica Line, Astoria Line, and Flushing Line in the bad old days as well. All people need to do is look at Astoria or Roosevelt Av or WPR to see what an el looks like and get turned off by the idea.

 

You make it sound like an el is the only option to go up north, or will be presented as such, when it really isn't.

Obviously, such isn't the only option, however, if it means getting it done, it could prove to be the only realistic way of doing so to the shagrin of many who don't want els, especially if such could be built faster and in the end most likely cheaper.  In fact, extending the SAS to the Bronx via a rebuilt Bronx 3rd Avenue El can be the prototype as to whether a modern El (as noted many times before, building such to sustain storms twice as strong as Sandy) can be done where such is much more quiet than its predecessors and in a way that it fits in with the area. 

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Obviously, such isn't the only option, however, if it means getting it done, it could prove to be the only realistic way of doing so to the shagrin of many who don't want els, especially if such could be built faster and in the end most likely cheaper.  In fact, extending the SAS to the Bronx via a rebuilt Bronx 3rd Avenue El can be the prototype as to whether a modern El (as noted many times before, building such to sustain storms twice as strong as Sandy) can be done where such is much more quiet than its predecessors and in a way that it fits in with the area. 

 

The (N) to LGA was the only way to bring an el there, and guess what? People didn't want it, even if it could've been built as a brand new el in 1990.

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The (N) to LGA was the only way to bring an el there, and guess what? People didn't want it, even if it could've been built as a brand new el in 1990.

There would've been an El along East Elmhurst's part of Ditmars Blvd OR along half of the Grand Central.

Edited by Priincenene

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There would've been an El along East Elmhurst's part of Ditmars Blvd OR along half of the Grand Central.

 

Okay, and? The point is that nobody wanted it even if an el was the only option.

Edited by bobtehpanda

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The (N) to LGA was the only way to bring an el there, and guess what? People didn't want it, even if it could've been built as a brand new el in 1990.

That was 1990, back when NYC was a MUCH different place than it is now.  Many of those people who didn't want it then are no longer with us.

 

By the time this would come up (2025 or so), people may not look at such the way some even now still do.  

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Keep telling yourself that.

 

You seem to forget (or ignore, I don't really care which) the fact that people are not that interested in elevated rail lines running through their neighborhoods if they can avoid it. Even more so if the line wasn't there in the first place. Residents and businesses put up with the existing elevated lines because they've been around for around or over a century in most cases. They aren't going to simply accept a brand new line running over their heads simply because it offers a faster trip. There's a reason why the AirTrain JFK had to be built over the Van Wyck. Think about it...

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Good point Lance. I'm not sure why an AirTrain to Laguardia Airport via the grand central parkway hasn't been built yet.

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Good point Lance. I'm not sure why an AirTrain to Laguardia Airport via the grand central parkway hasn't been built yet.

 

If you're talking about to the east, it's because it would be no faster than taking the Q70 to Jackson Heights. For what it's worth, Cuomo thinks any train > no train, so he's trying to get it built anyways.

 

If you're talking about to the west, it's because of the runway approach that prevents any sort of tall, elevated structures.

Edited by bobtehpanda
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MTA falling behind on Second Avenue Subway, consultant says

 

     The (MTA) is falling further behind on the Second Avenue Subway project, which is slated to open in December this year, according to independent consulting company McKissack. The project, which will add a much-needed new subway route on the Upper East Side, is delayed in installing power underground, which is needed to start tests for the new stations. The (MTA) said it will use temporary power so tests can start earlier, and that it is creating a new accelerated schedule to catch up on construction work and finish the line by the end of the year. “We recommend that the schedule should be detailed with weekly checkpoints as we go forward in our last year, so we can keep up to date with any issues that are being developed,” said consultant Kent Haggis. His company McKissack was hired by the (MTA) to monitor the project. The Nos. (4) , (5) and (6) on the Lexington Avenue lines have the highest ridership of any train line in the country. The (MTA) expects the Second Avenue Subway to give the route significant relief.

 

Source: http://www.amny.com/transit/mta-falling-behind-on-second-avenue-subway-consultant-says-1.11393303

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That article is misleading, because this is exactly what they were planning to do since the last meeting. By the way, for those who don't know, instead of there being major SAS updates Quarterly at CPOC, there will be major updates monthly at both the NYCT and MTACC meetings plus the quarterly CPOC.

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2-tracked isn't gonna cut it SMH!!! at least make provisions to build express tracks under the local tracks. Making the SAS 4-tracked (phase 1 and 2) not only increases capacity on 2nd Ave but also the Broadway Line finally sending the http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/75px-NYCS-bull-trans-N_svg.pnghttp://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/75px-NYCS-bull-trans-Q_svg.png up to UES and the Bronx w/ the http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/#EMO_DIR#/75px-NYCS-bull-trans-T_svg.png

The whole Second Av line may probably not be built only for (Q) to 96 St, look how long its taken them too complete this project ages.

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honestly i don't see much of a purpose of a second avenue (T) south of 63rd. The people there will most likely be wanting to go to midtown, which they would have to transfer at least once to reach such. It will be like the (G), feeder lines.

If they have to transfer, it would make more sense to walk a few blocks to the (4)(5)(6) Lexington Av Line  and overcrowd it even more.

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The whole Second Av line may probably not be built only for (Q) to 96 St, look how long its taken them too complete this project ages.

Don't forget the city fell into a money crisis which is why half of the plans for the subways never took place. 

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Return of the (W)

 

Saw this on FB:

 

 

"MTA Advances Work On Second Avenue Subway Service

W Train Will Serve Astoria When Q Train Begins Serving Second Avenue

MTA New York City Transit is proposing to hold a public hearing on restoring the W Line in Queens and Manhattan this fall, in order to allow the Q Line to begin serving the Second Avenue Subway between 63rd and 96th streets when it opens later this year.

The Second Avenue Subway’s first phase will serve the existing F Line station at Lexington Av/63 St as well as three new stations at 72 St, 86 St and 96 St., integrating them as one system into the existing subway network – an unprecedented accomplishment in the MTA’s modern existence.

MTA Capital Construction will also award final contract modifications on work for the first phase in line with the established budget for the project. Both measures will be presented to the MTA Board for approval at public meetings next week.

“With every day’s work on the Second Avenue Subway, the MTA gets closer to fulfilling a promise first made to New Yorkers in 1929,” said MTA Chairman and CEO Thomas F. Prendergast. “Opening the Second Avenue Subway will provide new options for our customers and relieve congestion on Lexington Avenue 456 trains.”

MTA Capital Construction continues to reach important construction milestones along Second Avenue. The 96 St Station has been fully energized with a permanent power supply, after successfully switching over from temporary construction power. In addition, the project’s final track crossover was completed north of the 72 St Station, allowing trains to switch tracks when necessary.

Adding the W Line to the system will provide more choices to Queens and Manhattan customers who use the Broadway NQR Lines, as well as allow New York City Transit to prepare for a seamless transition and connection of service between those lines and the Second Avenue Subway. New York City Transit is proposing to hold a public hearing on this service proposal in spring, in order to implement it by fall.

The proposed service changes would return the W to Astoria, where it will operate local service into Manhattan and terminate at Whitehall St. The line would effectively replace Q service in Queens. The Q Line will temporarily terminate at 57 St/7 Av, but will continue to 96 St upon completion of the Second Avenue Subway. In addition, N trains will operate express in Manhattan from 34 St-Herald Sq to Canal St, a change from its current local service in Manhattan. R service would remain unchanged.

More details of the proposed service changes are listed below:
• N Line: Service in Queens and Brooklyn remains the same, but trains operate express in Manhattan on weekdays during peak hours, midday and evenings. 
• Q Line: Northern terminus temporarily changed to 57 St/7 Ave until the Second Avenue Subway opens. At that point, trains will operate from 96 St in Manhattan to Coney Island-Stillwell Av in Brooklyn, stopping at: 86 St, 72 St, Lexington Av/63 St, 57 St/7 Av and all express stops on the Broadway Line in Manhattan. During late nights, the Q will run local between Brooklyn and Manhattan via the Manhattan Bridge. Service in Brooklyn remains the same.
• R Line: No service changes.
• W Line: Restoration of weekday service, making all local stops from Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Whitehall St via the Broadway Line. No service on weekends or late night.

The proposed service changes will provide a cross-platform transfer to the F Line at Lexington Av/63 St, giving customers an easy transfer to and from the Second Avenue Subway that will help alleviate current overcrowding conditions on the Lexington Avenue Line. The changes, including the restoration of the W, maintain service frequency and loading guidelines for customers in Astoria and avoid significant deviations from current service that might confuse customers on those affected lines. Customers on the Broadway Line will also benefit from an increase in choices for express and local service in Manhattan.

If the changes are approved, they will be implemented in fall 2016. The new terminus for the Q Line would be implemented after the Second Avenue Subway opens, with the extension of Q service to 96 St.

The cost for these service changes is approximately $13.7 million annually, which has been incorporated into NYC Transit’s approved budget.

W service was previously eliminated as part of service cuts implemented by the MTA in 2010 as a result of a global economic downturn that led to significant decreases in funding across all MTA agencies.

The most up-to-date information on MTA service status is always available at www.mta.info. For immediate notice of service changes, sign up for email or text alerts at www.mymtaalerts.com. For weekend subway service changes, visit www.mta.info/weekender.

EDITORS AND ASSIGNMENT DESKS: To check the status of any MTA services, use the service status box on www.mta.info rather than calling the MTA Press Office. It is updated directly from our control and command centers and always has the most current status information."

 

 

 

I'm trying to find a link, but it does seem legit.

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