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CDTA

Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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I have just gotten off the M21, and let me tell you, it was very dissapointing, For starters I had to wait twenty minutes for one. In my eyes thats just ridicuolus. One, I couldv'e walked and it would take the same amount of time. Two, this is the Houston St Crosstown. People completely unfamiliar with NYC or MTA, are going to take this bus. If they see it takes that long, they will get steered away from public transit. In addition, Weekday only service? I can tell you one thing for sure. There are bars in this area. People are more likely to drink (And get drunk and take MTA) on a Saturday, than a Wensday, which brings me to my next point. Service ends at 10 PM. As I said before, based on the area, this route can get alot of riders past 10 PM.

 

Until service is improved the M21 will continue to get 3-4 riders a bus, and will be a waste of the MTA's money. So, overall what i'm trying to say is, they need to improve the route, or cut it entirely.

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There is not much you can improve on the M21, the corridor is highly congested and you can't really cut it either. It's the only East-West route around that area. That M21 usually has a good amount of folks during the rush hour. East Side riders have been using the route after connecting from other various routes.

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I have to side w/ Cait on this one...

There's not much more that can be done to improve the M21, especially now that it no longer runs up to Bellevue......

 

It's usage throughout the day isn't consistent either.... I mean yeah, it sucks that the route has the headways that it does, but on the other hand, I don't really see a headway increase being warranted for it....

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Do you think weekend service would work? Currently there's no weekend crosstown between the M22 and the M14.

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Do you think weekend service would work? Currently there's no weekend crosstown between the M22 and the M14.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think it would. But it would be nice if they tried it out.

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Do you think weekend service would work? Currently there's no weekend crosstown between the M22 and the M14.

 

 

Which is ridiculous. I want M8 weekend service back, the fact that bus was cut and we're still running ludicrously expensive express buses is ridiculous. M21 weekend service hasn't really been tried on this current route, but I'm sure it'd be helpful.

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express buses are expensive due to redundant routing mostly QM AND BM the SI expresses ARE NEEDED AT ALL TIMES. bronx it is case by case BXM7 is very useful and the bxm4 is well lets just say weekend service is not needed. The bxm11 picks up as it gets closer to manhattan. BM 3 &4 are useless on weekends unless (Q) is messed up. so it is wrong to say all express buses are a waste some are some aren't. the QM4 &6 can be combined at offpeak and weekends as I usually see them together with 5 to 12 ppl on em each like qm6 can use LIE TO van wyck to get to jewel then via164th back to union tpk most riders would not be phased and may get a faster trip

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express buses are expensive due to redundant routing mostly QM AND BM the SI expresses ARE NEEDED AT ALL TIMES. bronx it is case by case BXM7 is very useful and the bxm4 is well lets just say weekend service is not needed. The bxm11 picks up as it gets closer to manhattan. BM 3 &4 are useless on weekends unless (Q) is messed up. so it is wrong to say all express buses are a waste some are some aren't. the QM4 &6 can be combined at offpeak and weekends as I usually see them together with 5 to 12 ppl on em each like qm6 can use LIE TO van wyck to get to jewel then via164th back to union tpk most riders would not be phased and may get a faster trip

 

What does this have to do with the current topic of discussion which is the M21 & Manhattan crosstowns.... dont infect this thread with your illogical bs.

Edited by Cait Sith
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besides M21 in order to save it you need to find where ppl on that corridor are coming from I assume many use fdr to LIC which is gentrified I am not really good on that area BUT do u think Q103 if rerouted over 21st st south of 40th then via FDR to merge with M21 ridership would pick up since you are linking Houston st corridor to LIC directly?? and even 34th street?? I don't know if this can work I heard somebody suggest it maybe that can save M21 indirectly. and add more ppl to Q103 in the process.

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cait that was NOT NESSESARY I made ZERO or bs in that post now try and READ I was referring to mv's rant on express buses I don't think you even understand what I said which is why you posted that

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Is a Q103 + M21 merge really necessary?

dont infect this thread with your illogical bs.
There's more to come, not surprising :) Edited by IRT Bronx Express
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not really you use Q103 then ask ppl in LIC then comeback and tell me?? it is 2 lines that need a boost in ridership badly so you tell me it has to be better than nothing I will try it this week who knows it may increase ridership.

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not really you use Q103 then ask ppl in LIC then comeback and tell me?? it is 2 lines that need a boost in ridership badly so you tell me it has to be better than nothing I will try it this week who knows it may increase ridership.
Just because those routes have bad ridership doesn't mean that the MTA will combine them as one route. Try again. Edited by IRT Bronx Express
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Well the areas served by those routes do have similar charachteristics and in a sense demographics. So both have many hipsters plus the vernon blvd corridor now gains access to manhattan look at the region you may come on to something

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This goes back to what we're (now) talking about in Threxx's Brooklyn bus overhaul thread....

Manhattan's system is based off a grid, due to the layout of the streets w/i the borough.....

I am not gonna further comment on how out of place the current focal point in this thread has now become.... The Q103 & the M21, smh...

 

Since the M21 is part of a grid (a "crosstown" if you will), you can only do but so much with it.....

What keeps that route from flourishing (outside of its low freq) is the fact that the masses are on the eastern portion of Houston - but the demand for bus service to the more western portion of Houston simply isn't great.... That is what plagues that route......

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Since the M21 is part of a grid (a "crosstown" if you will), you can only do but so much with it.....

What keeps that route from flourishing (outside of its low freq) is the fact that the masses are on the eastern portion of Houston - but the demand for bus service to the more western portion of Houston simply isn't great.... That is what plagues that route......

 

 

Maybe it could be extended down to the WFC, but then again, that wouldn't solve the problem of there being low demand on the weekends for the route.

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not disputing facts to why M21 fails That was simply a grid to grid interborough desparate attempt to draw riders already beat ya checkmate Already thought of it as part of well lets just say desparate attempt at increasing ridership. since indirectly it links 34th street to the eastern part of houston in a sence since the merged line needs 34th street to enter FDR anyway. now if you look even farther other uses can be found

Edited by qjtransitmaster
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Maybe it could be extended down to the WFC, but then again, that wouldn't solve the problem of there being low demand on the weekends for the route.

 

You'd most likely garner more riders if it were to be extended north of houston on the western end, as opposed to the south....

The areas the M20 covers in that general section of manhattan is pretty dead... I see virtually empty NB M20's 5 days a week... only reason that route isn't a weekday only route is b/c of it's usage north of 14th st.....

---

 

I had an old idea that had the 21 going to chelsea piers, running up 6th & down 7th av...

None of my old google map links seem to work anymore, so I'll just briefly describe it:

 

WB route simply had buses turning off houston onto 6th av & shooting across 23rd etc. to chelsea piers

EB route had buses shooting across 23rd, down 7th, down greenwich, across 8th, down macdougal, to get to houston....

 

- main problem I saw was that, the EB route would be too prone to delays/double parked vehicles.... having buses stay on 7th (varick) couldn't be done b/w houston becomes 1-way westbound west of 6th av... meaning buses would have to pan all the way down to spring, and do what they currently do to get back to houston.....

Edited by B35 via Church
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cait that was NOT NESSESARY I made ZERO or bs in that post now try and READ I was referring to mv's rant on express buses I don't think you even understand what I said which is why you posted that

 

 

No, you posted a rant. I posted a point, which is that local routes all around the city have suffered to keep express buses alive.

 

You'd most likely garner more riders if it were to be extended north of houston on the western end, as opposed to the south....

The areas the M20 covers in that general section of manhattan is pretty dead... I see virtually empty NB M20's 5 days a week... only reason that route isn't a weekday only route is b/c of it's usage north of 14th st.....

 

I had an old idea that had the 21 going to chelsea piers, running up 6th & down 7th av...

None of my old google map links seem to work anymore, so I'll just briefly describe it:

 

WB route simply had buses turning off houston onto 6th av & shooting across 23rd etc. to chelsea piers

EB route had buses shooting across 23rd, down 7th, down greenwich, across 8th, down macdougal, to get to houston....

 

- main problem I saw was that, the EB route would be too prone to delays/double parked vehicles.... having buses stay on 7th (varick) couldn't be done b/w houston becomes 1-way westbound west of 6th av... meaning buses would have to pan all the way down to spring, and do what they currently do to get back to houston.....

 

Thing is though, the LES already has the 14a & 14d, so having

 

 

Not wrong about the M20. I catch the 9-9:30pm M20 heading n/b on weekends pretty often, nine times outta ten it's just me and the op. Even had one rap seat discussion where the B/O told me he's literally never seen anybody get on the bus where I catch it at night. I hate to say it, but that weekend service is a waste. One person on a bus is a huge waste of money, even if it's nice for me -- I get an express to 14th st.

 

M21 to Chelsea idea is interesting, s/b MacDougal would be hopeless though...you can barely fit a car down that street let alone a bus. You could have it as an M8 supplement though and have it hook a right at Cooper Union, get to Houston from there.

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cait that was NOT NESSESARY I made ZERO or bs in that post now try and READ I was referring to mv's rant on express buses I don't think you even understand what I said which is why you posted that

 

I'm not going to attempt to insert periods here, so I'll assume it's a bs rant.

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Since the M21 is part of a grid (a "crosstown" if you will), you can only do but so much with it.....

What keeps that route from flourishing (outside of its low freq) is the fact that the masses are on the eastern portion of Houston - but the demand for bus service to the more western portion of Houston simply isn't great.... That is what plagues that route......

 

 

That explains what the M21 is about. On the west side of the route, folks take the M5 and M20 for the most part. The use of an M21 is virtually useless to the West Side with the exception of Elderly folk. On the east side, its used as an alternative to get to the subway.

 

 

No, you posted a rant. I posted a point, which is that local routes all around the city have suffered to keep express buses alive.

 

 

 

Not wrong about the M20. I catch the 9-9:30pm M20 heading n/b on weekends pretty often, nine times outta ten it's just me and the op. Even had one rap seat discussion where the B/O told me he's literally never seen anybody get on the bus where I catch it at night. I hate to say it, but that weekend service is a waste. One person on a bus is a huge waste of money, even if it's nice for me -- I get an express to 14th st.

 

M21 to Chelsea idea is interesting, s/b MacDougal would be hopeless though...you can barely fit a car down that street let alone a bus. You could have it as an M8 supplement though and have it hook a right at Cooper Union, get to Houston from there.

 

 

Thank you for correcting that transitmonster.....

 

I coincide with that statement regarding the M21, often times after 8pm its a rather dead line past Houston. Lincoln Center bound, its just dead.

 

An M21 to Chelsea Piers could work given that there is a demand of folks from the 14s that want Houston Street to begin with. I could see it happening.

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People at BPC also would flip out (literately) if the M20 was cut at all.

Maybe the M9 can go through its 1997 routing and pick up passengers in BPC, and Extend the M10 to 14 street and Maybe a supplement below 14 street if it's demanded.

The M21 could be extended to WBP for ADA riders that can't use the (J)(M)(Z).

Edited by Q23 Central Term

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People at BPC also would flip out (literately) if the M20 was cut at all.

Maybe the M9 can go through its 1997 routing and pick up passengers in BPC, and Extend the M10 to 14 street and Maybe a supplement below 14 street if it's demanded.

The M21 could be extended to WBP for ADA riders that can't use the (J)(M)(Z).

 

 

Physically, you can't extend it to Brooklyn, you'd have to cut off the East Side portion of the line.

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I think part of the issue with the M21 is the construction along the route as well. I had breakfast down in TriBeCa a few months back and after breakfast I decided to take the M15 to head up by Bloomingdales. The M21 took a while to come. Aside from that I had to walk to a stop across Broadway because of the construction nonsense. It isn't a true crosstown route which I think hurts it in a way as well.

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I think part of the issue with the M21 is the construction along the route as well. I had breakfast down in TriBeCa a few months back and after breakfast I decided to take the M15 to head up by Bloomingdales. The M21 took a while to come. Aside from that I had to walk to a stop across Broadway because of the construction nonsense. It isn't a true crosstown route which I think hurts it in a way as well.

 

 

What do you mean? It spends most of its time on Houston Street, pretty much from river to river, and the only reason it takes Spring Street for a while is because Houston Street is one-way.

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