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Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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A 12 year old child who's lived in this country for less than a year could speak better English than him. If he actually took the time to construct a well thought out post that didn't sound like he was screaming with his random caps and thousands of exclamation marks I'd respect him, even if his ideas are crazy.

 

 

Still, words hurt.

 

Anyway, I think that the M6 should come back, but I don't think it's possible.

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Hey, how about someone who rides the M21 everyday twice a day give their opinion?

Hey, that's me!!!!

Now, to set the record straight, the route's 20-30 minute headway, although sick, work! The bus gets most of its seats filled during most of its peak trips. Which is THE point when scheduling service. It's an average 20-30 min ride crosstown even with construction. I ride it between 6th and it's eastern terminal morning and night. This route won't be cut. If it were to, it would happened on doomsday. It didn't. It's current route is actually an improvement! Buses run until around 11. It's last trip is a westbound leaving at around 1130pm. On time performance has slightly improved in the last 6 months or so. Holland tunnel traffic doesn't impact pm eastbound like they use to. I work weekends as well so having no crosstown south of 14th does hurt. I use the 14A and the 8 as a back up incase I miss a 21.

It IS a "true crosstown" just for the record. Now... Could it be improved? Maybe.

Half hourly wekend service may work as long as the word is put out there about it. There are quiteafew of us who commute from soho/west village and the lower. As far as more frequency during the week, I don't think it's needed. And this is a daily rider saying this. I say this because most people who frequent houston, are either shoppers, tourists or sometimes, like me, it's too nice out to not walk. Us regular riders of the 21 knows when they come. It's not really a convenience route but more of a commuters route.

Cut the 21? You smoking that stuff!

Improve it, a little, but it's honestly not really needed. (for now)

The people who complain about its headway are usually those who are rarely on it at all.

 

 

I've said this in many other Manhattan-based threads. Thank you for this post!

 

 

Proposal # 1:

 

Have the M31 absorb the M57. Implement morning peak-period limited-stop service from Yorkville to Midtown only. All Midtown-bound local trips would operate via Sutton Place South and E 55 St.

 

Proposal # 2:

 

M9 - Restore service via Ave B and E 14 St to Union Square.

M22 - After Madison St, operate via Jackson St, Grand St, Pitt St (which would become a two-way street), Avenue C, and the current M9 to Peter Cooper Village.

 

Proposal # 3:

 

M2 - Operate southbound via the current M5 to South Ferry all times except late nights. Return via State St, Battery Pl, Trinity Pl, Church St, Worth St, Centre St, and Lafayette St, then current routing.

M5 - Operate to Houston St. Restore pre-June 2010 routing and stop assignments.

M6 - Restore route. Operates between South Ferry and Central Park South all times except late nights. Northbound would operate via the pre-June 2010 routing of State St, Battery Pl, Trinity Pl, Church St, and 6 Ave. But would operate southbound via Central Pk S, 7 Ave, 7 Ave S, Varick St, Park Pl, Broadway, and State St

 

Let the M31 absorb the M57?!?! No way! One line can't handle that extreme amount of folks that both lines gather as a whole. The M31 has its own purpose aside from the M57.

 

Why would you send the M2 down to South Ferry? It's kinda illogical as that line is the most heaviest of all of the 5th/Madison avenue lines. Better off just sending the M1 back down.

 

Restoring the old M9....as much as I would like that, nah. I'm one who has frequented the M9 before and after the cuts and this new setup for the line really works (as much as I hate to say it). The City Hall portion of the line, I honestly don't like it. But when it comes down to transfers, it works like a charm. The M22 to where the M9 currently goes? No way! It gets heavy going through Madison and then gathers another load along Chambers. Plus the m22 has its issues around Lower Manhattan when it comes to traffic.

 

M9 and M22? What about M9 service along Essex st which is used by M9 riders and M22 rvice service around the vladecks projects and the surrounding co-ops which also uses m22 service heavily? Now the idea about sending 22s over the WillieB, well marcy Ave station has elevators. Not many require access at delancy/Essex, and if they did, I'm sure there would have been more of a fight to keep B39 service. There are some of us here who live and/or frequent the lower East side yet none of us have stated or suggested the need for all these ideas. That's the problem with threads like these: too many backseat route creators. If you don't frequent the route, don't make suggestions. That's just my opinion. But a logical one I assume.

 

 

It just shows what folks barely know about those two lines. I've lived and used those lines for 16 years when I lived in the L.E.S (and miss it a lot) and all these proposals about the M9, M21 and M22 is coming from folks who only look at maps, not even riding or checking out the line as a whole.

 

What I kinda wished for the M9 is to send that route to Bellevue Hospital or 34th Street/1st Avenue (There is an actual program on the M9 for that). For the lower portion, restore M15 City Hall runs by axing that rather pointless Pike/Division short turn, or even use Chatham Square as a short turn because there is a BIG gain in passengers in that area alone.

Edited by Cait Sith
  • Upvote 1

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When I lived in Brooklyn, some people had concerns about the B5-B50 merger. Now, the B82 is one of the most heavily-travelled routes in Brooklyn.

 

For the M31-M57 merger, I believe that M31 would be to Manhattan, as the B82 is to Brooklyn. If it makes Manhattan that much more accessible by public transportation, it's worth it. Only the service planners have the resources to test it. But I will not give up on the implementation of AM peak-period peak-direction limited-stop service.

 

As for my M9/M22 proposal, it would also make Battery Park City and the Lower East Side that much more accessible by mass transit. And I did state that it should be done when the economy gets better.

 

Any 5th/Madison route that operates to South Ferry will be just as unreliable as any other route, and the restoring the M1 is a non-starter; the service planners have taken a radical stance, and have the confidence of the beancounters, i.e., their superiors. So, I chose the M2 to go to South Ferry, over the M1 and M5, as a compromise.

 

Unless the the M5 and M7 routing is cut back and M11 service reduced, the restoration of Centre St bus service will not occur, and the status quo will be maintained, regardless of who's in charge or who owns our mass transit service, be it the MTA or the City of New York.

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The elimination of Avenue B service was a big mistake, and wish to see it restored when the economy gets better.

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express buses are expensive due to redundant routing mostly QM AND BM the SI expresses ARE NEEDED AT ALL TIMES. bronx it is case by case BXM7 is very useful and the bxm4 is well lets just say weekend service is not needed. The bxm11 picks up as it gets closer to manhattan. BM 3 &4 are useless on weekends unless (Q) is messed up. so it is wrong to say all express buses are a waste some are some aren't. the QM4 &6 can be combined at offpeak and weekends as I usually see them together with 5 to 12 ppl on em each like qm6 can use LIE TO van wyck to get to jewel then via164th back to union tpk most riders would not be phased and may get a faster trip

 

cait that was NOT NESSESARY I made ZERO or bs in that post now try and READ I was referring to mv's rant on express buses I don't think you even understand what I said which is why you posted that

 

not really you use Q103 then ask ppl in LIC then comeback and tell me?? it is 2 lines that need a boost in ridership badly so you tell me it has to be better than nothing I will try it this week who knows it may increase ridership.

 

Shut up please. You're contradicting yourself

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The elimination of Avenue B service was a big mistake, and wish to see it restored when the economy gets better.

 

 

The thing about Avenue B was that it was way too narrow for those buses to go through, while they actually made it through, it was a pain for B/Os to turn onto Avenue B. Avenue C seems better.

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I have a small few ideas here. I haven't rode any Manhattan routes for a while so bear with me.

 

M1: Re-extend to South Ferry.

M5: Cut back to City Hall-replaced by M1 for South Ferry service.

M42: In the event that the M104 des return to the U.N. route frequenucy here to be cut back to around 7-8 Minutes.

M57: Frequency at 7-8 Minutes during AM & PM rush hours.

M104: Bring back U.N Terminal. The M42 is ruined during rush hours & needs assistance heading Eastbound.

 

And...Go!

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I'm gonna add to what Cait said......

 

- As was said, the M9 to City Hall works.... quick, simple ride to the F train... It is used as an alternative to the M22 also.....

never much cared for the M9 curling around Battery pl. to serve Battery Park city.... mich as I miss the M9 on 14th, it was rather redundant to the M14a.... I don't know how much time's been saved w/ the M9 truncation, and it seems as if there's always a bus when you need it now.... before, it was like, you aint know when the M9 was gonna show - it's gotten way more reliable IMO.....

 

- M22 to Peter Cooper? What's wrong with making your way to the M9.... The demand out there is for service to union Sq., not to 23rd st.... Why do you think the 14a & 14d serves different parts of the LES..... The streets in that area won't allow for such a feasible extension of the 22 up there anyway.....

 

....and lol if anyone thinks the DOT's gonna make pitt st (or any other 1-way street) st two-way, for the sole sake of having a bus route re-routed onto it....

-----------------------

 

far as the other ideas....

 

- I'm not buying what was previously given as an explanation as to why the M2 (of all routes) should be sent down to South Ferry as a plausible one, over reverting the M1....

 

- M5/M6 ideas I generally agree with....

 

- M31/57 merge is a bad idea all around... Justifying such a move by using the B82 as a comparison is off-base, as the traffic along kings hwy & flatlands av pales in comparison to the traffic of york av & 57th st..... How many yorkville & upper east siders do you think are really seeking service along West end av over there by the upper west side? The ones that do, would make their way to the M66 or M72.... This is why "U-shaped" routes don't work.....

 

These two routes need to stay separated, as to retain a "dedicated" crosstown service along 57th.... M31 still has York av to contend with.....

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I'm gonna add to what Cait said......

 

- As was said, the M9 to City Hall works.... quick, simple ride to the F train... It is used as an alternative to the M22 also.....

never much cared for the M9 curling around Battery pl. to serve Battery Park city.... mich as I miss the M9 on 14th, it was rather redundant to the M14a.... I don't know how much time's been saved w/ the M9 truncation, and it seems as if there's always a bus when you need it now.... before, it was like, you aint know when the M9 was gonna show - it's gotten way more reliable IMO.....

 

The way I saw the M9 at Union Square was an alternative if you wanted a guaranteed seat on the bus, other than that, you don't really save any time at all because Avenue B is BUSY with all those bars and stuff along the area. The only reasons I'd want the M9 to go back to Battery Park City is that it would provide a better alternative for folks wanting the subway + another alternative to South Ferry, which was my main use for the M9 before the cuts.

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The way I saw the M9 at Union Square was an alternative if you wanted a guaranteed seat on the bus, other than that, you don't really save any time at all because Avenue B is BUSY with all those bars and stuff along the area.

 

When I mentioned time savings, it was regarding the M9 in its totality (the old M9 compared to the current M9)....

 

The part about union square was a totally separate point.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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Mine in red.

 

Proposal # 1:

 

Have the M31 absorb the M57. Implement morning peak-period limited-stop service from Yorkville to Midtown only. All Midtown-bound local trips would operate via Sutton Place South and E 55 St.

 

Proposal # 2:

 

M9 - Restore service via Ave B and E 14 St to Union Square.

 

I would wonder if the M9 would replace ether the M14A or M14D.

 

M22 - After Madison St, operate via Jackson St, Grand St, Pitt St (which would become a two-way street), Avenue C, and the current M9 to Peter Cooper Village.

 

Proposal # 3:

 

M2 - Operate southbound via the current M5 to South Ferry all times except late nights. Return via State St, Battery Pl, Trinity Pl, Church St, Worth St, Centre St, and Lafayette St, then current routing.

 

 

Sounds good, even tho it will be long. For that I would add more Limited Stop service to it.

 

M5 - Operate to Houston St. Restore pre-June 2010 routing and stop assignments.

M6 - Restore route. Operates between South Ferry and Central Park South all times except late nights. Northbound would operate via the pre-June 2010 routing of State St, Battery Pl, Trinity Pl, Church St, and 6 Ave. But would operate southbound via Central Pk S, 7 Ave, 7 Ave S, Varick St, Park Pl, Broadway, and State St.

 

I'd use the M10 instead. Extend it instead. Even make it a limited downtown.

 

M7 - Cut back to Penn Station when the M6 operates.

M20 - Operate southbound via 9 Ave, Bethune St, and Greenwich St (7 Ave service replaced with restored M6)..

 

 

M11 - Reduce service where possible in order to satisfy the Bus Loading Guidelines.

 

M11 feels reduced enough, especially with late buses at times.

 

So, what do you think? I think that Proposals 1 and 3 could easily be implemented, because they would, at the very least, pay for themselves. Proposal # 2 may be a long shot, but could hopefully be implemented when the economy gets healthier.

 

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I would wonder if the M9 would replace ether the M14A or M14D.

I thought about the M9 replacing the M14c back when that still existed.....

 

I'd use the M10 instead. Extend it instead. Even make it a limited downtown.

The current M10 feels like a shell of its former self.... Of course ppl. still use it, but it's like, its importance or prevalence has been greatly diminished

 

M11 feels reduced enough, especially with late buses at times.

You aint kiddin... service on the M11 sucks, and it's been like that for years now...

this past sunday I rode it from 34th to the park & I said to myself, yup, still the SOS w/ this route....

 

Despite it avoiding the all the subway lines b/w 14th & CPS, that route always manages to garner a lot of riders.... IMO, the MTA doesn't give the M11 its proper respect, so to speak.....

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Just as a addition to this thread, my M16 would replace serivce on Lafayette & Centre Sts.

 

m16.jpg

Edited by ThrexxBus

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Threxxbus, unless you could find other savings that would offset the net operating cost of your M16, this route is a non-starter.

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I'd use the M10 instead. Extend it instead. Even make it a limited downtown.

 

It couldn't even be limited-stop because its too infrequent. But I'm neutral when it comes to re-merging the M10 and M20.

Edited by dkupf

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You aint kiddin... service on the M11 sucks, and it's been like that for years now...

this past sunday I rode it from 34th to the park & I said to myself, yup, still the SOS w/ this route....

 

 

My Community Board has been complaining about M11 reliability for a long time, but failed. The problem is traffic entering the Lincoln Tunnel from the north, something beyond the MTA's control, and no one wants to do anything about it.

 

But I'm talking about shifting the southbound M20 from 7 Av/7 Av S/Varick St to 9 Av/Bethune St/Greenwich St in order to make TriBeCa more accessible from Lincoln Square, Clinton, and Chelsea. Unfortunately, the M11 would have to have reduced service outside of the AM rush, as per the MTA Bus Service Loading Guidelines.

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I'd use the M10 instead. Extend it instead. Even make it a limited downtown.

 

It couldn't even be limited-stop because its too infrequent. But I'm neutral when it comes to re-merging the M10 and M20.

 

Re-merging the M10 and M20 would be overkill. The M10 and M20 were halved initially because M10 service was too long and infrequent. Now the M10's importance has been slashed again because its terminal is now 57th and Broadway.

 

My ideas are as follows:

1. Supplement service between the Yorkville Hospitals and Lower East Side via 1st Avenue, 2nd Avenue, and Delancey Street. This was a proposed idea a few years ago as a way to revamp the M21 and M9. The route was called the M13.

 

Here's my idea of it, courtesy of Gorgor's drawing of it: http://scaped.net/m/...CNG_Command/m13

 

2. Extend the M104 back to the U.N. to allow more breahing room for the M42 from the U.N. to 8th Avenue. Bus service on 42nd Street is a PITA with the overcrowding and M42 bunching in Midtown, especially during rush hour.

 

3. Extend the M10 to Times Square with the possibility of extending it back to Penn Station. The M10 has a smaller purpose now with it cut back to Columbus Circle. Extend the service to help give someone an option to travel transfer-free from Central Park West to Times Square without having to get off and wait for the M7, M104, or unreliable M20.

 

4. Echoed already: Restore the M5 and M6 to its pre-2010 cuts. And if not, restore Limited M5 service on the weekend.

Edited by RTS CNG Command

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4. Echoed already: Restore the M5 and M6 to its pre-2010 cuts. And if not, restore Limited M5 service on the weekend.

 

 

In a perfect world, we would want this, but the M6 ain't comin' back.

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Threxxbus, unless you could find other savings that would offset the net operating cost of your M16, this route is a non-starter.

 

 

At first glance, one would think so.

 

This route is multi purpose, and here's why:

 

1. Provides a direct connection from PABT to Lower Midtown & Downtown Manhattan.

2. Supplements Lex Avenue trains by providing a direct connection from GCT to the areas mentioned above.

3. Replaces former M1 service on Park Av S, Lafayette & Centre Sts.

4. Connection directly to City Hall in both directions.

 

Some buses will short-turn at City Hall to increase the reliability of the route in what I believe would be the busiest section of the route. I think I've routed it so this route can pay for itself. It could even be extended south to Penn Station, removing the section b/w 42 St & 50 St.

Edited by ThrexxBus

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Here is another idea, the M28 crosstown, point to assist the M23 & M34 along 28 St, a busy shopping corridor in some places.

 

Screen%20shot%202012-04-19%20at%201.16.59%20PM.png

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I'd use the M10 instead. Extend it instead. Even make it a limited downtown.

 

It couldn't even be limited-stop because its too infrequent. But I'm neutral when it comes to re-merging the M10 and M20.

 

 

The M10 is not that infrequent. The M20 is a lot more infrequent then the 10. I say add more buses.

 

Re-merging and sending it to South Ferry is also a good idea. I've said that in the past. Have the M10 run to the Ferry, while the M5 cuts back to Houston Street, and the M2 LTD heads down to the Ferry replacing the M5. M2 Limited service extends to Houston.

 

 

 

The current M10 feels like a shell of its former self.... Of course ppl. still use it, but it's like, its importance or prevalence has been greatly diminished

 

 

You aint kiddin... service on the M11 sucks, and it's been like that for years now...

this past sunday I rode it from 34th to the park & I said to myself, yup, still the SOS w/ this route....

 

 

 

 

The M10 is highly used in Harlem, compared to Central Park West. If you stand around 125th Street & 8th around the Rush, Northbound Buses gets packed. If Limited won't do, then maybe as I mentioned above, merge with the M20.

 

For the M11, yes it does suck. Most of the issue with delays is due to traffic between 34th Street and 50th Street with those cars/trucks/buses trying to go to Lincoln Tunnel for NJ access. The Bus ends up getting late by 10 or even 20 min. Been thru it and its hell.

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Stop with the merge the M31 and 57. There's a reason why those routes are seperate. I would just restore the M6. I was never with the M5 going to South Ferry. Something definitely needs to be done about the M1 and 10, they're shells of their former selves. It's sad I kind of like 3Xbus' idea of an M28.

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fyi I was not the one with the M31 merging idea with m57 for the record so trexx what multipurpose route were you thinking of??

Edited by qjtransitmaster

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Stop with the merge the M31 and 57. There's a reason why those routes are seperate. I would just restore the M6. I was never with the M5 going to South Ferry. Something definitely needs to be done about the M1 and 10, they're shells of their former selves. It's sad I kind of like 3Xbus' idea of an M28.

 

 

How is that sad? It's a good idea! (Also, don't use that nickname, I have absolutely no idea where that is coming from...)

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