Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Shortline Bus]

Since I can't find the Manhattan Bus Proposals thread, I have to make a new thread.

 

Here is a map of this M19, an eastern version of the M15.

 

https://maps.google....102453,0.154324

 

If a mod sees this, please combine this thread with the Manhattan bus thread.

 

 

I dont think the(MTA) would appprove since it parrels the M5 and M7 routes. Better off making the M7 a limited. With that this is merged with the Manhattan Bus Proposal Thread.

[Threxx]

I dont think the(MTA) would appprove since it parrels the M5 and M7 routes. Better off making the M7 a limited. With that this is merged with the Manhattan Bus Proposal Thread.

 

 

Anyway, that's the point. I originally thought to make the M7 a daily LTD-only route, which would be cheaper, but that wouldn't solve the traffic problems on 6th & 7th Avenues. Thats where the separated bus lane comes in.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[MHV9218]

Since I can't find the Manhattan Bus Proposals thread, I have to make a new thread.

 

Here is a map of this M19, an eastern version of the M15.

 

https://maps.google....102453,0.154324

 

If a mod sees this, please combine this thread with the Manhattan bus thread.

 

 

Keep it on the West side much longer. Morningside Heights could use some more service and the whole West side is completely underserved whatwith the M11. If you ran it on the far West side until 23rd (ideally 14th) or so, that'd be something valuable. Not sure if we really need another bus to South Ferry though.

[Threxx]

Keep it on the West side much longer. Morningside Heights could use some more service and the whole West side is completely underserved whatwith the M11. If you ran it on the far West side until 23rd (ideally 14th) or so, that'd be something valuable. Not sure if we really need another bus to South Ferry though.

 

 

I'll consider this, but the M19's main purpose was to provide fast service through Midtown. It could be done.

 

14th Street, no, because of traffic. 23rd is possible.

 

EDIT: Ok, I've thought about it, I'll redraw it, the map will be unavailable for a while, hang tight!

 

EDIT 2: New map: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004c2961681323731a5d&msa=0&ll=40.743941,-73.998027&spn=0.018826,0.038581

Edited June 16, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[Gorgor]

I'll consider this, but the M19's main purpose was to provide fast service through Midtown. It could be done.

 

14th Street, no, because of traffic. 23rd is possible.

 

EDIT: Ok, I've thought about it, I'll redraw it, the map will be unavailable for a while, hang tight!

 

EDIT 2: New map: https://maps.google....018826,0.038581

 

 

Why does it have to be SBS?

 

Also that bus will be delayed so badly by the Lincoln Tunnel and a little by the Holland Tunnel that it shouldn't even deserve to be called SBS. Also crosstown traffic on 23rd can get bad at times.

 

SBS isn't a quick fix that magically gets rid of traffic no matter where it's applied; it's used to speed up bus service where there's the potential for it to be sped up. Take for example the M15 SBS. 1st and 2nd Avenues have always been known as the fastest avenues on the east side, but 10th and 9th have notorious traffic by the tunnel.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

_{I would just restore the M6. I was never with the M5 going to South Ferry.}

 

 

Not likely to happen without funding.

 

I would actually restructure the M5 at the upper end:

 

M5

- Northbound via Riverside and 135th, to Amsterdam (to serve City College and connect with M100, M101).

- Southbound via Amsterdam, 133rd, Broadway, 135th, Riverside.

 

M104

Extend via Broadway to G.W. Bridge.

[Threxx]

Why does it have to be SBS?

 

Also that bus will be delayed so badly by the Lincoln Tunnel and a little by the Holland Tunnel that it shouldn't even deserve to be called SBS. Also crosstown traffic on 23rd can get bad at times.

 

SBS isn't a quick fix that magically gets rid of traffic no matter where it's applied; it's used to speed up bus service where there's the potential for it to be sped up. Take for example the M15 SBS. 1st and 2nd Avenues have always been known as the fastest avenues on the east side, but 10th and 9th have notorious traffic by the tunnel.

 

 

You didn't read the description...

 

In the problem section, I am well aware of the traffic problem. If this were to be implemented here is what would happen:

 

1. A study would be done on the corridor, to see if what I will say below is necessary.

2. A concrete median would be built near the curb to physically seperate the lane from regular traffic.

 

In the future, alternate tunnel exits could also be constructed to further reduce traffic.

 

The Holland Tunnel isn't close enough to be a real problem, 7th & 8th Avenues take up most of that traffic.

 

As for 23rd Street, there will be bus lanes for the route. This isn't a magic fix, this is for the commuters & residents. I have put in enough failsafes to prevent slowdowns. The M15 gets slowed down a lot.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well I think the M1 doesn't need to be extended down to the village, because of 2 other routes parallelling most of the route below 106. What I would do is switch the limited stop pattern to the M3, and retain the M2 as a local all day

[Threxx]

Well I think the M1 doesn't need to be extended down to the village, because of 2 other routes parallelling most of the route below 106. What I would do is switch the limited stop pattern to the M3, and retain the M2 as a local all day

 

 

Isn't this discussion dead?

 

Anyway, the M1 needs to go back for the service, but I would switch the M2 & M3.

[Gorgor]

You didn't read the description...

 

In the problem section, I am well aware of the traffic problem. If this were to be implemented here is what would happen:

 

1. A study would be done on the corridor, to see if what I will say below is necessary.

2. A concrete median would be built near the curb to physically seperate the lane from regular traffic.

 

In the future, alternate tunnel exits could also be constructed to further reduce traffic.

 

The Holland Tunnel isn't close enough to be a real problem, 7th & 8th Avenues take up most of that traffic.

 

As for 23rd Street, there will be bus lanes for the route. This isn't a magic fix, this is for the commuters & residents. I have put in enough failsafes to prevent slowdowns. The M15 gets slowed down a lot.

 

 

So basically take away 2 perfectly good lanes (one for the median, one for the bus lane) and completely screw over drivers while exponentially increasing traffic just so that you can transport practically nobody from downtown to 9th/10th ave?

[Threxx]

So basically take away 2 perfectly good lanes (one for the median, one for the bus lane) and completely screw over drivers while exponentially increasing traffic just so that you can transport practically nobody from downtown to 9th/10th ave?

 

 

Look, that wasn't my original routing, take that issue up with MHV if you don't like the 9th/10th routing. My old way made much more sense, I yielded to him because he is from Manhattan.

[Threxx]

Ok, I have come up with a cost cutting measure, something that if it is not adressed will continue to waste thousands of dollars a year.

 

Eliminate the M20 under the following conditions:

 

M10 is extended to 23rd Street.

M9 is extended to Battery Park City. The City Hall section becomes a branch which is weekdays only.

The M22 is extended to South Ferry.

M6 service is restored as well, and the M5 is cut back to Greenwich Village.

 

Between 14th Street & Chambers Street, there isn't enough ridership to sustain the route.

[DanTheTransitMan]

Ok, I have come up with a cost cutting measure, something that if it is not adressed will continue to waste thousands of dollars a year.

 

Eliminate the M20 under the following conditions:

 

M10 is extended to 23rd Street.

M9 is extended to Battery Park City. The City Hall section becomes a branch which is weekdays only.

The M22 is extended to South Ferry.

M6 service is restored as well, and the M5 is cut back to Greenwich Village.

 

Between 14th Street & Chambers Street, there isn't enough ridership to sustain the route.

 

 

1). Would cost to much money+ most M10 buses empty out before the last stop anyway so you would have a lot of empty buses running around.

2). There was a good reason why M9 service was cut to that area; not enough demand coupled with the fact that there are decent transportation options in the area.

3). People from lower Manhattan actually use the M20 to get to places further north and they would prefer a one seat ride to get to their destination.

4). I would not suggest restoring the M6, if it didn't help out with anything back when it was running, it would not help out now. I do agree with you though when you stated that M5 should be cut back to GV. Additionally the M1 should go back to serving south ferry instead of the current M5 or your proposed M6.

 

P.S. I realize that last response wasn't necessary geared toward the M20, I just wanted to give my two cents.

Edited June 17, 2012 by DanTheTransitMan

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I suggested the 10 to 14 and the 7 via the southern portion

[Cait Sith]

2). There was a good reason why M9 service was cut to that area; not enough demand coupled with the fact that there are decent transportation options in the area

 

 

I disagree with that, Battery Park City lost a major route in the M9 as there was a lot of connections being made with that route. Plus it was mostly cut back to replace the M15 City Hall branch. The Battery Park folks had a one-seat ride to head uptown instead of having to transfer to the M15, which people barely did. There was more of a demand for the M9 to Battery Park City than there was to City Hall. The M20 and M22 can get slammed with traffic and both can be horrible (the M20 Especially).

 

The M20 may be covering a small portion of what the M9 used to do, but that's really not enough even though the M15 SBS rectified most of those issues. I can guarantee you that a majority of M20 trips get people AFTER Houston Street....people use the 1 train over the M20 and that's a fact.

 

 

 

Ok, I have come up with a cost cutting measure, something that if it is not adressed will continue to waste thousands of dollars a year.

 

Eliminate the M20 under the following conditions:

 

M10 is extended to 23rd Street.

M9 is extended to Battery Park City. The City Hall section becomes a branch which is weekdays only.

The M22 is extended to South Ferry.

M6 service is restored as well, and the M5 is cut back to Greenwich Village.

 

Between 14th Street & Chambers Street, there isn't enough ridership to sustain the route.

 

 

Some of this does not make any sense and sounds rather backwards. While I would agree to an M9 re-extension to Battery Park City. It's not necessary anymore. The demand that was once there has died down. Folks migrated over to the M15 for that kind of service. If you're going to make a City Hall branch, kill off the M15 Pike-Division branch and send that portion of the line down to City Hall. Splitting the M9 into separate branches make no sense.

 

Extending the M10 costs almost as much as what they would save by eliminating the M20, M10s empty out way before the last stop as Dan said so thats kinda pointless.

 

You simply can't extend the M22 over to South Ferry, there are enough bus routes as it is and the M22 has a different purpose from the M20, M5 and M15 and there is simply no such demand for it.

 

Restoring the M6....beating that dead horse again. While that all sounds good and all, Bloomberg killed its original routing and demand for the line with that damned pedestrian plaza crap. Since then, it was always up and down.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Cait Sith

[Threxx]

Restoring the M6....beating that dead horse again. While that all sounds good and all, Bloomberg killed its original routing and demand for the line with that damned pedestrian plaza crap. Since then, it was always up and down.

 

I actually have a good routing for it, as such:

 

After coming south along 7th Avenue:

Left onto 32 Street

Right onto Broadway

Left onto 19th Street

Continue back onto Broadway

 

It works as a local for the M19 SBS.

Edited June 17, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[DanTheTransitMan]

I actually have a good routing for it, as such:

 

After coming south along 7th Avenue:

Left onto 32 Street

Right onto Broadway

Left onto 19th Street

Continue back onto Broadway

 

It works as a local for the M19 SBS.

 

 

The route is redundant; seventh avenue is already covered by the M7, M5, and the M104 (up to 41st street) and Broadway doesn't need bus service because there are so many viable options in the area (M1, M2, M3, M5, and the N and R). On top of that it is being converted to a pedestrian plaza so bus service would end up being inefficient. Again that's why I said it would be better to bring back the old M1 to south ferry

Edited June 17, 2012 by DanTheTransitMan

[Threxx]

The route is redundant; seventh avenue is already covered by the M7, M5, and the M104 (up to 41st street) and Broadway doesn't need bus service because there are so many viable options in the area (M1, M2, M3, M5, and the N and R). Again that's why I said it would be better to bring back the old M1 to south ferry

 

 

I already have a route for the old M1, the M16. Gorgor made a map for it, here it is:

 

Edited June 17, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[Far Rock Depot]

Why does it have to be SBS?

 

SBS isn't a quick fix that magically gets rid of traffic no matter where it's applied; it's used to speed up bus service where there's the potential for it to be sped up. Take for example the M15 SBS. 1st and 2nd Avenues have always been known as the fastest avenues on the east side, but 10th and 9th have notorious traffic by the tunnel.

 

 

Actually......

 

 

The M15 was a candidate for SBS due to a lack of an east side subway. I use to go to H.S. in east midtown (57th and 2nd) and then after, worked in the East side (1st ave & 79th). Recently, i have been taking trips up and down the east side. Park ave, is the fastest ave in the east.

Second ave is nortorious for traffic. especially between the 60s and upper 20s. You have the Ed Koch Bridge and the Qns-Midtown tunnel making traffic almost as bad as by the west side tunnels. then as you head towards Houston, traffic prepares for access to the Willie B.

[MHV9218]

So basically take away 2 perfectly good lanes (one for the median, one for the bus lane) and completely screw over drivers while exponentially increasing traffic just so that you can transport practically nobody from downtown to 9th/10th ave?

 

Look, that wasn't my original routing, take that issue up with MHV if you don't like the 9th/10th routing. My old way made much more sense, I yielded to him because he is from Manhattan.

 

 

I mean, I don't think it made more sense, I think it made less sense. @Gorgor: 9th and 10th are huge avenues and "practically nobody" is just wrong. The M11 has a pretty significant ridership and with the 7 train extension it's only more people going West. 9th already has a bike lane median in some parts and 10th is a huge avenue. They said all that about the 1st Ave SBS (doing bus lanes / bikes lanes took out two lanes) and that works incredibly well, huge success for the MTA and most riders (except you for some reason). 23rd is also a pretty good choice to go crosstown on, traffic's not that awful at most times so I agree with this routing myself.

[B35 via Church]

Ok, I have come up with a cost cutting measure, something that if it is not adressed will continue to waste thousands of dollars a year.

 

Eliminate the M20 under the following conditions:

 

M10 is extended to 23rd Street.

M9 is extended to Battery Park City. The City Hall section becomes a branch which is weekdays only.

The M22 is extended to South Ferry.

M6 service is restored as well, and the M5 is cut back to Greenwich Village.

 

Between 14th Street & Chambers Street, there isn't enough ridership to sustain the route.

 

No way would all that result in a net savings......

This is just a plan that's centered around cutting the 20 for the sake of doing so.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

No way would all that result in a net savings......

This is just a plan that's centered around cutting the 20 for the sake of doing so.

 

the site really improved with my phone for quoting. If you want to kill M20 just extend M21 south via M20 routing to battery park city ridership should improve on M21 as a result. Then extend M11 to houston street via M20 routing. Then extend M14A to penn station then southbound via 9th ave northbound via 8th. (select M14A trips only)(select M11) or M11 may gain riders as a result of easier 10th ave access. M20 canned good riddance. M14A pays for itself the slight extension wont add too much cost. M21 would gain ridership and so will M11 therefore net savings realized with more ppl on M21 & easier links to houston from M11. & no M20 M14A even with extension would still remain profitable

[Cait Sith]

the site really improved with my phone for quoting. If you want to kill M20 just extend M21 south via M20 routing to battery park city ridership should improve on M21 as a result. Then extend M11 to houston street via M20 routing. Then extend M14A to penn station then southbound via 9th ave northbound via 8th. (select M14A trips only)(select M11) or M11 may gain riders as a result of easier 10th ave access. M20 canned good riddance. M14A pays for itself the slight extension wont add too much cost. M21 would gain ridership and so will M11 therefore net savings realized with more ppl on M21 & easier links to houston from M11. & no M20 M14A even with extension would still remain profitable

 

 

How in the blue hell will any of this even work? You can't physically kill off ANY part of the M20 because folks from UPTOWN use it to go DOWNTOWN. M14A to Penn Station? WHAT?! You've lost your mind now, the M14A already gets slammed along 14th Street, how in the world will sending it to Penn Station make things any better? It's called the M14A for a bloody reason....

 

And don't give me any explanations about "Select" trips because 14th Street needs EVERY BIT OF SERVICE it can get, thats why you don't see any M14s go ANYWHERE outside of 14th Street.....

Edited June 18, 2012 by Cait Sith

[Threxx]

How in the blue hell will any of this even work? You can't physically kill off ANY part of the M20 because folks from UPTOWN use it to go DOWNTOWN. M14A to Penn Station? WHAT?! You've lost your mind now, the M14A already gets slammed along 14th Street, how in the world will sending it to Penn Station make things any better? It's called the M14A for a bloody reason....

 

And don't give me any explanations about "Select" trips because 14th Street needs EVERY BIT OF SERVICE it can get, thats why you don't see any M14s go ANYWHERE outside of 14th Street.....

 

 

In the words of your fellow member, nuff said.

[VWM]

I support Gorgor in bringing back the X90.