Businesses feeling pinch of Smith-9th subway work in Brooklyn

[Shortline Bus]

Here link for ABC/Ch.7 video clip on story this morning 5/7/12 about the ongoing Smith/9th Station rebulid work.

 

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8650888&pid=8650947

 

 

 

 

Guys *please keep the comments only related to this topic.** Meaning please only your takes such as business being badly hurt by the shutdown or are the B61/B57 doing the good job as alternatives? No comments about trains proposals here. Thank You.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well how can you make that request about the and when their re-routing is having an impact on these businesses?? Sorry but I have to ask. The two are most certainly related.

[Grand Concourse]

He's talking about the endless "what line should run as the Culver express" 'ideas' that clogged up an entire thread (was 7 pages long of endless back and forth 'debates'). After that was done no one came to a conclusion and it was back to square 1. That said, I agree there's no need to bring that up.

 

As for the station itself, well sorry for them, but it's like 2nd Av: they have to hold on till the station is open and then it'll be business as usual.

[Shortline Bus]

He's talking about the endless "what line should run as the Culver express" 'ideas' that clogged up an entire thread (was 7 pages long of endless back and forth 'debates'). After that was done no one came to a conclusion and it was back to square 1. That said, I agree there's no need to bring that up.

 

As for the station itself, well sorry for them, but it's like 2nd Av: they have to hold on till the station is open and then it'll be business as usual.

 

 

That exactly what i meant. Point in bold guys.

[pjbr40]

Everyone is getting this pinch else where too. Not just to subway, don't forget the bridge too. I seen tons of business come and go too.

 

Off the topic but related in a way:

There a bridge down here in Belmar, Nj to Avon by the Sea, Nj that been closed for like 8 months due to bridge deck and motor repairs (drawbridge). There was three business gone because of the bridge repairs.

[Brooklyn]

Maybe since it was on the news, they'll move quicker (LOL).

 

But it's a damn shame. A whole neighborhood relies on that station, and they seem to be taking their sweet time.

I know the construction is "complex" but I feel that work should have been done by now, even according to their timetables. There are days where I see no work being done.

 

In the meantime, I feel that B77s should be restored....The 61 never should have never been extended. That bus is a nightmare.

The 77 should have replaced the old 75 bus to 19th st continuing along 9th st to the park. The 61 should have remained shortended from the Ikea to Borough Hall...I personally would have had it terminate on the corner of Boerum Place and Fulton st so people could walk to Borough Hall or Jay st Metrotech and have the DOT create a place where the bus could make a U turn back southbound.

 

The B77 was a sweet and short route with a MINIMUM amount of delays. That was an extremely reliable route.

 

Or if the MTA was really bold, I would have had a bus (even temporarily) stopping at Smith 9th sts and continuing through the Battery tunnel. That really would have been sweet.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I guess the question here is if the is helping businesses along 2nd Avenue (though it's a bit too late for some) why can't they work out something here?? People may say that well your business shouldn't be made of "XY & Z" but that's how business is. I mean the majority of my clients are in the healthcare, legal and financial sectors because that's where the need is. Being a small business is very difficult as it is even under normal circumstances (getting financing to start up, staying in the black, etc.), let alone in this type of economy and while folks may say well too bad, the fact of the matter is SMALL BUSINESSES are what keep this economy going. They create the majority of the jobs here in the U.S., so when folks can't get work they'll know why. Now I run my entire department, from overseeing projects, to approving invoices and just about all financial decisions are made by me, and if I had to face what some of these guys are facing it would sure as hell would be hard to keep my department afloat in the overall scheme of the company, so I don't envy them. Many of them put their life savings into their businesses, so if they go bust there is another foreclosure, sinking housing prices and keeping the economy in recession. In sum don't think that these stores don't affect your pockets because they do in some form or another. The would benefit by trying to help small businesses keep afloat since they would benefit financially by having better a healthier real estate sector. They've got tons of empty spaces right now that they're making no money off of that would be rented to small businesses and then they wonder why their fiscal situation is so terrible. They need to do their part to help the economy get back on track and instances like these certainly don't help.

[Shortline Bus]

Maybe since it was on the news, they'll move quicker (LOL).

 

But it's a damn shame. A whole neighborhood relies on that station, and they seem to be taking their sweet time.

I know the construction is "complex" but I feel that work should have been done by now, even according to their timetables. There are days where I see no work being done.

 

In the meantime, I feel that B77s should be restored....The 61 never should have never been extended. That bus is a nightmare.

The 77 should have replaced the old 75 bus to 19th st continuing along 9th st to the park. The 61 should have remained shortended from the Ikea to Borough Hall...I personally would have had it terminate on the corner of Boerum Place and Fulton st so people could walk to Borough Hall or Jay st Metrotech and have the DOT create a place where the bus could make a U turn back southbound.

 

The B77 was a sweet and short route with a MINIMUM amount of delays. That was an extremely reliable route.

 

Or if the MTA was really bold, I would have had a bus (even temporarily) stopping at Smith 9th sts and continuing through the Battery tunnel. That really would have been sweet.

 

 

 

Bro (Brooklyn)actually like along with several other great ideas, before the June '10 Doomsday Cuts suggested extending the old B71 to South Ferry. I do agree if the economy was better, it should have ran at least weekdays.

[Brooklyn]

^^^

 

If the B71 had been extended, it would have been so heavily used it wouldn't have been funny.

You would have also gotten a percentage of train riders coming from the Carroll Street Station, because the old 71 stopped at the station.

 

Taking the bus would probably have been faster than taking the then transferring to the only to transfer again at Broadway-Nassau.

 

That route would have been a godsend for people who worked near Wall st.

[Shortline Bus]

^^^

 

If the B71 had been extended, it would have been so heavily used it wouldn't have been funny.

You would have also gotten a percentage of train riders coming from the Carroll Street Station, because the old 71 stopped at the station.

 

Taking the bus would probably have been faster than taking the then transferring to the only to transfer again at Broadway-Nassau.

 

That route would have been a godsend for people who worked near Wall st.

 

 

Again IMO the did not go far enough to help Park Slope/Red Hook residents to make the Smith/9th closure easier. Yes they extended the to Church Ave but that only they had no choice. If needed they could have tried to get money from Federal sources to help pay for a Bus line connecting Red Hook/Park Slope with Lower Manhattan.

 

I think part of the reason the did not go hard enough for that bus mentioned above is that they were fearful of a waste of money as during the closure of the 6th Ave tracks on the Manhattan Bridge between 2001-early '04, a shuttle bus connecting Grand St-Dekalb had very little ridership. It's not fair but imo it might have been a factor.

[Brooklyn]

^^^^

 

I hear you. Red Hook is deceptively larger than people think. The furthest point away from the subway is over 1 mile and a half.

The least they could have done was keep the B77...that bus was so reliable, it wasn't funny. The only time there would be a delay was when the bridge went up. The B77 was a lifeline.

 

As for the B71, that's a bus that was already in use--just an extension, unlike the Grand St shuttle. I would have tested it out for a few months and see what the ridership was. I am DEAD SURE that bus gets packed. Giving the bus a few stops in BK before it enters the tunnel, you are in lower Manhattan (from Carroll St on the ) in 20 minutes, MAX.

 

It also would connect job centers with residences, unlike the Grand st bus. There are many people who work around Wall st who live in those areas.

 

 

A short route (where the B61 runs) through the Battery would be excellent as well. From the Ikea, to Van Brunt st through the Battery Tunnel and back. A nice short and sweet route that would cut the commute times for some Red Hook residents by as much as 2/3rds. You really wouldn't need to have too many buses on the route either. Have it run during rush hours only and see the kind of ridership you'd get.

 

It is very frustrating sometimes....having a local bus go through the Battery seems to be a no brainer yet it has not been done. I can't imagine that it would be terribly expensive.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

^^^^

 

I hear you. Red Hook is deceptively larger than people think. The furthest point away from the subway is over 1 mile and a half.

The least they could have done was keep the B77...that bus was so reliable, it wasn't funny. The only time there would be a delay was when the bridge went up. The B77 was a lifeline.

 

As for the B71, that's a bus that was already in use--just an extension, unlike the Grand St shuttle. I would have tested it out for a few months and see what the ridership was. I am DEAD SURE that bus gets packed. Giving the bus a few stops in BK before it enters the tunnel, you are in lower Manhattan (from Carroll St on the ) in 20 minutes, MAX.

 

It also would connect job centers with residences, unlike the Grand st bus. There are many people who work around Wall st who live in those areas.

 

 

A short route (where the B61 runs) through the Battery would be excellent as well. From the Ikea, to Van Brunt st through the Battery Tunnel and back. A nice short and sweet route that would cut the commute times for some Red Hook residents by as much as 2/3rds. You really wouldn't need to have too many buses on the route either. Have it run during rush hours only and see the kind of ridership you'd get.

 

It is very frustrating sometimes....having a local bus go through the Battery seems to be a no brainer yet it has not been done. I can't imagine that it would be terribly expensive.

 

 

If you're so frustrated and really believe in your plan, why not write to your local representatives and speak at the hearings??

[Brooklyn]

If you're so frustrated and really believe in your plan, why not write to your local representatives and speak at the hearings??

 

 

How do you know I haven't?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How do you know I haven't?

 

 

How do I know you have?

[B35 via Church]

Maybe since it was on the news, they'll move quicker (LOL).

 

But it's a damn shame. A whole neighborhood relies on that station, and they seem to be taking their sweet time.

I know the construction is "complex" but I feel that work should have been done by now, even according to their timetables. There are days where I see no work being done.

 

In the meantime, I feel that B77s should be restored....The 61 never should have never been extended. That bus is a nightmare.

The 77 should have replaced the old 75 bus to 19th st continuing along 9th st to the park. The 61 should have remained shortended from the Ikea to Borough Hall...I personally would have had it terminate on the corner of Boerum Place and Fulton st so people could walk to Borough Hall or Jay st Metrotech and have the DOT create a place where the bus could make a U turn back southbound.

 

The B77 was a sweet and short route with a MINIMUM amount of delays. That was an extremely reliable route.

 

Or if the MTA was really bold, I would have had a bus (even temporarily) stopping at Smith 9th sts and continuing through the Battery tunnel. That really would have been sweet.

 

I don't agree that the B61 should have remained running b/w Downtown Bklyn & Ikea; I do see a need to connect Carroll Gdns. to Park slope, and the current route does that..... Matter fact, I'll go one further & say the old B61 (b/w Red Hook & Queens Plz) should've never gotten broken up..... Then there would've been no need to combine the 61 (that went from downtown to Ikea) with the 77 & a portion of the 75 - Then they could've done what you suggested about sending the 77 on over to windsor terrace.....

 

On the other hand, I do agree with your assessment of the B77... That route IMO was almost as efficient as the 42 & the 74 (other short routes w/ relatively high ridership per distance covered)...... Problem was how ill-utilized the B75 usage was.... Thing is, the current B61 (windsor terr - downtown bklyn via Ikea) makes sense with the 75 gone....

 

With that said, I do think there should be peak hour short turns of the current 61 though b/w [5th/9th] & [Red Hook/Ikea].....

 

 

 

As for the B71, that's a bus that was already in use--just an extension, unlike the Grand St shuttle. I would have tested it out for a few months and see what the ridership was. I am DEAD SURE that bus gets packed. Giving the bus a few stops in BK before it enters the tunnel, you are in lower Manhattan (from Carroll St on the ) in 20 minutes, MAX.

 

It also would connect job centers with residences, unlike the Grand st bus. There are many people who work around Wall st who live in those areas.

 

 

A short route (where the B61 runs) through the Battery would be excellent as well. From the Ikea, to Van Brunt st through the Battery Tunnel and back. A nice short and sweet route that would cut the commute times for some Red Hook residents by as much as 2/3rds. You really wouldn't need to have too many buses on the route either. Have it run during rush hours only and see the kind of ridership you'd get.

 

It is very frustrating sometimes....having a local bus go through the Battery seems to be a no brainer yet it has not been done. I can't imagine that it would be terribly expensive.

 

1) The B71 failed b/c it connected two areas where either of which weren't seeking to get to the other (one side of grand army plz. to the other)..... Don't know what importance it had when it was created, but it definitely lost that importance as time went on; Antiquation....

 

With that said, I can also see a route panning from Park Slope/Carroll Gdns/Clinton Hill to Lower Manhattan working out.... It serves a part of manhattan you can't get to by taking the ..... No-brainer is right.....

 

2) I don't see the point of a bus that runs from Red Hook to Lower manhattan.... from what I pondered & gathered/noticed, most Red hook patrons that took the @ Smith/9th, took it to Jay to xfer to the (of those that weren't completing their trip in downtown bklyn, that is).... It's folks in Park Slope/Carroll Gdns/Clinton Hill that would greatly benefit more from Lwr. Manhattan route via the BBT.....

[Brooklyn]

^^^^

 

Thank you for your intelligent and on-topic response unlike the one I got before you....

 

I am about efficiency, reliability and giving drivers easy routes that will minimize delays and get people from point A to point B as quickly as possible.

 

I thought about the new B61 route and I understand it....It makes sense on the map, but when one considers the actual route and the traffic, etc, I think changes need to be made.

 

The B61 route has always faced traffic issues are far back as I can remember. It will usually be when it's on Hicks st going towards Atlantic Avenue or on Atlantic Av itself. That is a major headache. When it ran to Queens, it was unreliable too and there were ALWAYS delays and problems....drivers told me delays usually happened on Manhattan Av in Greenpoint (as well as Atlantic).

 

I actually applauded breaking up the route into the 61 and 62. The 61s (at least on the Cobble Hill/Red Hook side) became way more reliable. Very few people took the bus from end to end (I know--I rode it for a decades).

 

On this side, the MTA got away running between 2 and 4 buses on the entire route and they took care of the passengers and were way more reliable.

 

But I do understand the argument you were making--that splitting the original route made it more palatable for the MTA to create the new route. Damn shame there aren't more sensitive and intelligent people making these decisions.

 

The B77 was like clockwork--nice short simple route. The only time there would be delays is if some moron on Hamiliton blocked up the turning lane onto Smith St or the rare instance the bridge went up. That's it. 3 buses was enough to handle the entire route. That bus was the model of reliability..

 

The fact that the Smith 9th sts station is closed complicates matters. Because of the B61 delays and the station closure, people are finding their commutes being elongated by as much as 30 minutes.

 

As a concession, they should bring the B77 back during rush hours only. To save face, the MTA should have "short run" B61s (in other words, the old B77 bus LOL) that go from the Ikea to 5th avenue. That would solve a lot of problems.

[Brooklyn]

 

1) The B71 failed b/c it connected two areas where either of which weren't seeking to get to the other (one side of grand army plz. to the other)..... Don't know what importance it had when it was created, but it definitely lost that importance as time went on; Antiquation....

 

With that said, I can also see a route panning from Park Slope/Carroll Gdns/Clinton Hill to Lower Manhattan working out.... It serves a part of manhattan you can't get to by taking the ..... No-brainer is right.....

 

2) I don't see the point of a bus that runs from Red Hook to Lower Manhattan.... from what I pondered & gathered/noticed, most Red hook patrons that took the @ Smith/9th, took it to Jay to xfer to the (of those that weren't completing their trip in downtown bklyn, that is).... It's folks in Park Slope/Carroll Gdns/Clinton Hill that would greatly benefit more from Lwr. Manhattan route via the BBT.....

 

 

1) People used the old B71 route, especially during rush hours. Ridership was spotty during other times, though.There were people who needed to go crosstown. I actually used that route. There are people in Gowanus (by the canal) who have a bit of a walk to get to either the Carroll St station or the Union street station on the R line.

 

I understand the budget crunch, but as a concession, I thought the route should have been kept during rush hours. Better would have been to bring it through the Battery Tunnel. That would have taken care of the ridership issue, FOR SURE. It would have been like having an express bus without the coach bus seats and price! That bus would have been PACKED end to end.

 

I am sure if people along the Crown Heights side had a bus that would get them to jobs near Wall street, there would have been ridership.

People around Grand Army Plaza would still have the and , but they would have another option--there definitely would be some spillover.

 

Not to mention the point you brought up about Park Slope and Carroll Gardens residents along Union and 3rd sts.

[Brooklyn]

2) I hear you, but I think this is one of those cases where "if you build it, they will come". They took the bus to Smith 9th sts because they had no choice. Getting the B77 to Smith 9th or 4th av was quicker than waiting for an unreliable B61 to jay st.

I know these areas extremely well....

 

I know how these commutes were--they would involve multiple transfers: B77 to smith 9th sts, transfer to (or to 4th Av for the ).Take to Jay Street, transfer to or . Transfer again at BWAY Nassau for the 7th Av line or Lex line.

 

You have a minimum of 3 or even 4 transfers in some cases. Again, I know because I did it.

 

That was actually faster than waiting for the B61 to Jay street--it was not uncommon to wait 20-30 minutes for a packed bus. Many times it would take 40-45 minutes to just to get to Downtown BK.

 

Yes, the transportation in Red Hook is THAT BAD. The Smith and 9th st closing and the extension of the B61 made something that was already nervewracking into something beyond ridiculous.

 

A Battery Tunnel/Ikea bus route would have the potential to take up to 40-45 minutes away from some commutes--no exaggeration.

 

Again, thank you for your intelligent response.

[CDTA]

Now look see, this is what i don't get. If the MTA fixes the station, everyone in the area has a conniption, and if the MTA doesn't fix the station they have a conniption. Seriously, what the hell? I'm not having a hissy fit that 168th is being redone. Why are they?

[Brooklyn]

^^^^

The crux of my posts is NOT about the renovation per se. However, it would be nice if timetables were kept.

 

People welcome the renovation--I am one of them...that station was falling apart and the conditions were pretty bad.

 

Rather, it is about the bus service changes and the transportation options....