SCT Proposals 2012-2013 Thread

[checkmatechamp13]

Okay, why discontinue the S23 when you could re route it or better yet renumber the S25 as the S23. I think what the 2009 study had a better idea for the S25 

 

and your plan for the 6A is idiotic, as no offence I don't f see many people from Gordon Heights needing to go to the airport, you know with most of the people there being considered poor and all. 

 

The people using transit to reach the airport are often workers. The B15 passes through some pretty poor neighborhoods (much poorer than Gordon Heights), and it goes to JFK. Why? Because some people have jobs at the airport.

 

Not to mention that even in poor neighborhoods, people sometimes manage to scrape together money for a flight, but not the final money for the taxi fare. (I mean, you could get a flight for $100 or less, but the taxi to and from the airport can be just as much roundtrip).

 

What is ISP.

 

Macarthur Airport.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Is there a bus you that you can transfer from the S1 that goes to ISP?

Well, the S54 leaves you outside the airport. You could walk inside the airport, or transfer to the S57.

[B35 via Church]

What is ISP.

Islip/Macarthur Airport....

 

Well, the S54 leaves you outside the airport. You could walk inside the airport, or transfer to the S57.

Lol.... Yeah right, you aint gettin people to do that...

That would be like having the B15 dropping ppl off nassau expwy/south conduit & having ppl. walk to the airtrain station from that corner....

 

I have an idea for SCT involving the S23, S25, S29, and S29D

 

SCT first needs to extend the S25 to WWM via Straight Path to Wydanch, then the S23 route to WWM

The S23 would be discontinued.

The S29 schedule would be modified to operate differently.

Yeah, but what runs b/w residential Deer Park & Babylon then ?

You can't just force people to take 33's or 2B's to (your altered) 25's or 29's to Babylon...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Islip/Macarthur Airport....

 

Lol.... Yeah right, you aint gettin people to do that...

That would be like having the B15 dropping ppl off nassau expwy/south conduit & having ppl. walk to the airtrain station from that corner....

 

Yeah, but what runs b/w residential Deer Park & Babylon then ?

You can't just force people to take 33's or 2B's to (your altered) 25's or 29's to Babylon...

There would be 29s St rush hour that Ailey serve Wydanch over the S23 route to Babylon. As for other times, people can walk (it isn't by very much anyways, besides there barely is ridership on the grand Blvd section outside rush hours). Everyone who rides the S23 from Babylon during off peak hours get off along Deer Park Avenue and vice versa. Everyone who rides the S23 from WWM get off by farthest in Wheatley Heights. So The S23 breakup would barely affect any riders, maybe 5 people max. Edited February 24, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[B35 via Church]

There would be 29s St rush hour that Ailey serve Wydanch over the S23 route to Babylon. As for other times, people can walk (it isn't by very much anyways, besides there barely is ridership on the grand Blvd section outside rush hours). Everyone who rides the S23 from Babylon during off peak hours get off along Deer Park Avenue and vice versa. Everyone who rides the S23 from WWM get off by farthest in Wheatley Heights. So The S23 breakup would barely affect any riders, maybe 5 people max.

I was waiting for you to say that....

 

You try walking from that part of deer park to the S33 or the S29.... it isn't as short are you're making it out to be, regardless if it isn't very much by.... It's that same attitude why ppl. don't take the buses in the first place.... You can't just have buses focusing on serving commercial areas, they have to better serve residential portions also..... I understand that you can't serve everybody, but that service to those folks is already there, towards babylon.... Aint as easy as running 25's up straight path & via the current 23 north of that point to whitman mall, cutting the 23, and telling the ppl. that live along grand to walk to 25's or 29's.....

 

You are simply trying to make the 25 more useful at the expense of the 23...... That's the problem with your plan...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I was waiting for you to say that....

 

You try walking from that part of deer park to the S33 or the S29.... it isn't as short are you're making it out to be, regardless if it isn't very much by.... It's that same attitude why ppl. don't take the buses in the first place.... You can't just have buses focusing on serving commercial areas, they have to better serve residential portions also..... I understand that you can't serve everybody, but that service to those folks is already there, towards babylon.... Aint as easy as running 25's up straight path & via the current 23 north of that point to whitman mall, cutting the 23, and telling the ppl. that live along grand to walk to 25's or 29's.....

 

You are simply trying to make the 25 more useful at the expense of the 23...... That's the problem with your plan...

Well in that case, make all S29 buses Serve Wydanch regardless, and S29 service along Deer Park Avenue between LI Avenue and Grand Blvd cut (anyone can walk that between LI Avenue Avenue and Grand Blvd) . The other option is making the 2B run to WWM, the 2A goes to SUNY Farmingdale, and the S25 get extended to WWM via the S31 to 110, then supply as an alternative to the S1.

[B35 via Church]

Well in that case, make all S29 buses Serve Wydanch regardless, and S29 service along Deer Park Avenue between LI Avenue and Grand Blvd cut (anyone can walk that between LI Avenue Avenue and Grand Blvd) .

 

The other option is making the 2B run to WWM, the 2A goes to SUNY Farmingdale, and the S25 get extended to WWM via the S31 to 110, then supply as an alternative to the S1.

Yeah the RR separates LI av & Grand, but I'm not understanding why you want to mess with the 29 in the first place..... The main focus of your idea is to make the 25 more useful.....

 

I don't have a problem w/ moving the 2a to the college, but running up 2b's to whitman mall is overkill... the S1 isn't one of these low frequency routes.....

[qjtransitmaster]

well better Idea consolidate 2a& b into one line. First reroute S23 to bay shore via muncy la replacing part of the 2a. The part duplicating S33/27 gets axed. Now this new 2 follows 2b till deerpark ave then 2a's route to wyandach then to millville via farmingdale improve the frequency of this new 2 line it will become S2 now let S23 & S29 have different purposes.

[B35 via Church]

well better Idea consolidate 2a& b into one line. First reroute S23 to bay shore via muncy la replacing part of the 2a. The part duplicating S33/27 gets axed. Now this new 2 follows 2b till deerpark ave then 2a's route to wyandach then to millville via farmingdale improve the frequency of this new 2 line it will become S2 now let S23 & S29 have different purposes.

You may have a point with having both the 2a & 2b ending at SUNY farmingdale....

 

Haven't given any thought though to combining both routes though to be honest, so I'm not gonna comment on that....

[mac5689]

Well its quite true what you say, but the real reason is to Give Gordon Heights residents more transit options and for Northern Suffolk to have a second option to the airport (examples: Riverhead, Coram, and southern communities such as patchogue, Center Moriches, Mastic, and Shirley, get a second option to the airport rather than the S57.

 

There really isn't a need for 30 minute headways along 231. Let the S29 take the loads of the S23 in that area. Ridership will nearly double on the S29 with the elimination of the S23, and the S25 ridership would increase by about 20%, using the same amount of resources and getting more ridership.

No offence but having to transfer is better then having nothing at all.

 

well better Idea consolidate 2a& b into one line. First reroute S23 to bay shore via muncy la replacing part of the 2a. The part duplicating S33/27 gets axed. Now this new 2 follows 2b till deerpark ave then 2a's route to wyandach then to millville via farmingdale improve the frequency of this new 2 line it will become S2 now let S23 & S29 have different purposes.

You are aware that even if you get your combined 2A and 2B, you AREN'T getting an S2, they would probably keep the route numbered 2A.

[qjtransitmaster]

No offence but having to transfer is better then having nothing at all.

 

 

You are aware that even if you get your combined 2A and 2B, you AREN'T getting an S2, they would probably keep the route numbered 2A.

2A S2 no difference all I want is for the duplicate parts to go bye bye to allow better rush hr service.

[N6 Limited]

Being that the 2A goes to the Deer Park Tanger Outlet, I think the 2A's western terminal should be Suny Farmingdale or Conklin Street and RT110 to connect with the N70 & 72.   

 

The S33 connects with the N72 but the times are not synched, and it would be better to wait on RT110 where there are places to go as opposed to Straight Path.

[qjtransitmaster]

Being that the 2A goes to the Deer Park Tanger Outlet, I think the 2A's western terminal should be Suny Farmingdale or Conklin Street and RT110 to connect with the N70 & 72.

 

The S33 connects with the N72 but the times are not synched, and it would be better to wait on RT110 where there are places to go as opposed to Straight Path.

That segment is redundant and takes riders away from S27 that segment is not needed. S33 does serve the deer park outlets. Both 2B & A have redundant segments that are better off eliminated then combine the unique parts. All that needs to be done is better S33 timing and more rush hour service. Edited March 3, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

That segment is redundant and takes riders away from S27 that segment is not needed. S33 does serve the deer park outlets. Both 2B & A have redundant segments that are better off eliminated then combine the unique parts. All that needs to be done is better S33 timing and more rush hour service.

You have a point. The Combined 2B route would run on the 2A route up to Sunrise, then take te 2B route. The 2B can also be streamlined on Bay Shore Road, no need to deviate. The 2B can run on Deer Park Road to Nicolls Road, then follow the 2A routing to Wydanch, and the 2B route to SUNY. Furthermore the 2B should be extended to Farmingdale LIRR, to connect students to the LIRR, via Mellville Road (the old n95 bus alignment from SUNY Farmingdale to LIRR).

 

The S23 could replace the 2B segment in Deer Park so 2B riders have still bus service and so the S23 and S29 get more riders.

 

Also, the 1B should be rerouted from Copiague LIRR to Amityville RR (its a bigger transfer point then Lindenhurst with the crappy ass S31). The routing would take straight path with the S33 to amityville. It also should replace the S35 route to Great Bay Shopping Center, and possibly go to Babylon.

 

Although this is a NICE proposal, I think either the N55 or the N80/81 should go to Babylon, while the n19 is truncated to Sunrise Mall.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I also had a S90 proposal

 

S90: The S90 should run in two branches. The primary branch should operate from Hampton Bays to Center Morciches, every 2 hours. The 10D would be eliminated. Saturday service however would have short-turns at Quogue. The S90 would serve Riverhead Every 2 hours instead of its Jumbalaya Schedule it has. In a future phase, the S68 can be extended and combined with the new S90 branch to Hampton Bays, the Riverhead Branch would be discontinued. Or the S90 can be a through route from Center Moriches to Hampton Bays excluding the Riverhead Branch. I'd rather go with option one, for coverage reasons.

 

The S90FG would be discontinued under this proposal, only the S90E and the new S90H branch would be active.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[qjtransitmaster]

You have a point. The Combined 2B route would run on the 2A route up to Sunrise, then take te 2B route. The 2B can also be streamlined on Bay Shore Road, no need to deviate. The 2B can run on Deer Park Road to Nicolls Road, then follow the 2A routing to Wydanch, and the 2B route to SUNY. Furthermore the 2B should be extended to Farmingdale LIRR, to connect students to the LIRR, via Mellville Road (the old n95 bus alignment from SUNY Farmingdale to LIRR).

 

The S23 could replace the 2B segment in Deer Park so 2B riders have still bus service and so the S23 and S29 get more riders.

 

Also, the 1B should be rerouted from Copiague LIRR to Amityville RR (its a bigger transfer point then Lindenhurst with the crappy ass S31). The routing would take straight path with the S33 to amityville. It also should replace the S35 route to Great Bay Shopping Center, and possibly go to Babylon.

 

Although this is a NICE proposal, I think either the N55 or the N80/81 should go to Babylon, while the n19 is truncated to Sunrise Mall.

N81 would be the better choice the best choice for babylon is SCT S40 since it's actually more frequent than the N19!!!! I'd reroute N19 rather than truncate it.  For old N95 segment I'd let rush hour N19 rerouted via N71's portion do that. Rerouted N71 covers N81 southern part. N81 covers N80 southern part killing off N80. Farmingdale LIRR is already served by the N70 no need for the 2B to go there. N70 takes care of it. Reroute N72/70 to stop inside the farmmingdale station.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Going back to the S90: Top three reason for failure

1. LIRR

2. Ridiculous Span of Service

3. Doesn't really cater to folks on the south shore

 

The spans are ridiculous. Service to Riverhead starts at 8:30 in Quogue. It starts later at rush hour. There is one more rush hour bus, at 10:15 AM. Then the last bus leaves at 1:35 PM (Service to Center Moriches by the time started a little more than an hour earlier). If you're not on that bus, you'd have to backtrack all the way to Center Morches on the 3:20 S90 to Center Moriches which turns into the 4:05 S90 to Riverhead. The LIRR is more frequent, sadly.

 

The S90 can be a Center Moriches to Hampton Bays Route with a part time branch to Riverhead. The areas the S90 serves is dense, and can garner ridership, but the insane crap service they get makes it a less wanted option. The S90 would operate every hour between Center Moriches and Quogue.

 

The S90 would also serve South Ponquogue, to maintain service (under this plan the 10E would be discontinued.

 

Here's the schedule

 

Center. Westhampton. Quogue. Hampton

Moriches Beach Bays

8:00 8:27. 8:30. 9:02

10:00. 10:27. 10:30. 11:02

12:00. 12:27. 12:30. 1:02

2:00 2:27. 2:30. 3:02

4:00. 4:27. 4:30. 5:02

6:00. 6:27. 6:30. -----

 

And back

 

Hampton. Quogue. Westhampton. Center

Bays. Beach. Moriches

----- 7:20. 7:25. 7:50

9:30. 10:02 10:05 10:35

11:30. 12:02. 12:05. 12:36

1:30. 2:02. 2:05. 2:36

3:30. 4:02. 4:05. 4:36

5:30. 6:02. 6:05. 6:36

 

The Extention is feasible (on a Long layover).

 

2 buses would be needed for this S90 compared to 1 on the S90 and one doing the 10D/10E combined

 

The Riverhead S90 buses go from end to end in 50 minute, so I would do one bus with 10 minute layover at both terminals.

 

Under this proposal the S92 would be rerouted in Hampton Bats on weekdays

Edited March 14, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[B35 via Church]

^^ Been over this song & dance already..... Pinepower suggested something similar

 

...and the areas the S90 serves are dense? Surely you jest....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

^^ Been over this song & dance already..... Pinepower suggested something similar

 

...and the areas the S90 serves are dense? Surely you jest....

By dense I mean Westhampton Beach and Quogue. Besides the S90 would operate along Montauk Hwy between Center Moroches and Hampton Bays. A branch to Riverhead would operate what the current S90 trips do.

[The TransitMan]

My suggestion for the S90 would be to change the routing and combine with the 10DE. I would discontinue S90 service to Speonk and Center Moriches. I honestly think there needs to be a 2nd route between Hampton Bays and Riverhead, and this is where the S90 comes in. The S90 would travel between Hampton Bays and Riverhead, via Quogue and Westhampton. It would travel down CR 104 to CR 31 (all trips would pass by the airport where there's passenger use there) then down 27a to Mill rd then east on the existing routing. But instead of heading through upper Quogue, the route would continue east along the existing 10E route, and do a loop through Hampton Bays like the 10D does. In summer the bus would cross the bridge to provide service to Ponquogue Beach (good ridership generator).

 

The S92 needs to be streamlined on the south fork. I'd get rid of the 10B and have certain S92 trips continue straight down 27 instead of the Sag Harbor detour. These trips would also continue straight down CR 39 instead of Southampton Village. There needs to be more frequent service as well on the south fork, which is why there'd be some runs only betw Riverhead and E.Hampton, to provide half hourly service all day Mon-Sat (hourly Sun). This is where the S90 comes in as an alternate for the Hampton Bays - Riverhead riders, which there are ALOT of. This has two purposes, aleviating the crowding on the S92 and filling up empty S90s. Though I will say the S90 isnt always empty, it gets busier in the morning (first run out of Riverhead and last run back to Riverhead).

 

Ok. I read this part and I think it's the 10E that does the loop in Hampton Bays as the 10D travels from East Quogue to Hampton Bays. I also like the idea of combining the S90 and 10E to include the loop by the Shinnecock Canal. The 10E does carry towards it's last trip through the Squiretown and Newtown Rds area. Maybe eliminate the loop part and make it a bi-directional service. I know some people who live along Newtown Rd who would benefit from that idea. As far as the 10D, I'm not sure if this was what you suggested BUT make that bus go to the Dune Rd/Ponquogue Beach via Ponquogue Bridge. Otherwise, 10D serivce ends along the lower part of the CURRENT 10E routing (Bay Av, Wakeman Rd, etc.)

 

Second, you can't remove the S92 out of Southampton Village. Believe it or not, during the evening rush hour...every stop in Southampton Village has at least 10 people at each stop. The S92 really does carry through the village.

 

All in all, good idea here.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004c02de03265f0ca60a&msa=0&ll=40.739454,-73.364639&spn=0.363661,0.837021

 

S20: Merged with S42, route extended to Ronkonkoma LI MacArthur Airport to provide a merger with the south. I dont feel like giving the full reason the S40/S20 merger would probably will cause more solutions than solving, but if that goes through, in simplest terms, due to their relations, and the current S20's transit alternatives, I'm pretty sure the S40 would end up going back the way it was with there being no replacement on the southern portion. The S42 has a bit more ridership than the S20, so combining them together would give riders a better and more direct one seat ride to areas along the S20/S42 corridor.

 

S23: Discontinued, see S25, S29

 

S25: Extended to WWM via old S23 alignment

 

S29: Rerouted to serve Wydanch R.R Station, see map for more details

 

S35: Discontinued, replaced by extended 1B.

 

S45: Saturday Service every hour instead of every 45 minutes. The money saved will be used for Sunday Service, bypassing Happauge on Sundays (see map). Sunday Service would be every 90 minutes

 

 

 

More Changes to come.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[B35 via Church]

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004c02de03265f0ca60a&msa=0&ll=40.739454,-73.364639&spn=0.363661,0.837021

 

S20: Merged with S42, route extended to Ronkonkoma LI MacArthur Airport to provide a merger with the south. I dont feel like giving the full reason the S40/S20 merger would probably will cause more solutions than solving, but if that goes through, in simplest terms, due to their relations, and the current S20's transit alternatives, I'm pretty sure the S40 would end up going back the way it was with there being no replacement on the southern portion. The S42 has a bit more ridership than the S20, so combining them together would give riders a better and more direct one seat ride to areas along the S20/S42 corridor.

 

S23: Discontinued, see S25, S29

 

S25: Extended to WWM via old S23 alignment

 

S29: Rerouted to serve Wydanch R.R Station, see map for more details

 

S35: Discontinued, replaced by extended 1B.

 

S45: Saturday Service every hour instead of every 45 minutes. The money saved will be used for Sunday Service, bypassing Happauge on Sundays (see map). Sunday Service would be every 90 minutes

 

 

 

More Changes to come.

 

- Not commenting on your S23/25/29 plan, been over that already....

 

- Just as I wouldn't merge the 20 with the 40, I wouldn't merge the 20 with the 42 either....

I would just extend the 42 eastward to LIRR Ronkonkoma & leave the western terminal at LIRR Babylon.....

 

- I'm interested in how you'd go about combining the S35 & the 1B exactly (I don't see it on your map there)...

 

- I agree that S45 service should run every hour on saturdays.... I would also straighten the (saturday) routing in certain parts where there would even be less runtime (guess I'll map it out after you respond... don't feel like doing it right now).....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

- Not commenting on your S23/25/29 plan, been over that already....

 

- Just as I wouldn't merge the 20 with the 40, I wouldn't merge the 20 with the 42 either....

I would just extend the 42 eastward to LIRR Ronkonkoma & leave the western terminal at LIRR Babylon.....

 

- I'm interested in how you'd go about combining the S35 & the 1B exactly (I don't see it on your map there)...

 

- I agree that S45 service should run every hour on saturdays.... I would also straighten the (saturday) routing in certain parts where there would even be less runtime (guess I'll map it out after you respond... don't feel like doing it right now).....

 

I mapped out the S35 and 1B combined map. Most of the people anyways go bretween Lindenhurst station and Straight Path, so the 1B would bypass the Great South Bay Shopping Center (S20, N19 serve it well from that area anyways).

 

Also, on the 2nd or 3rd Page, I have the S45 routing for Sunday, which would take a shortcut and bypass entirely Hauppauge. It would use Hawthorne, then motor pkwy, then 111 straight to smithtown on sundays.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[B35 via Church]

I mapped out the S35 and 1B combined map.

Yeah, you just added it... It wasn't on there before - That's why I said what I did with that...

 

Anyway, so that's how you do it...

Edited March 23, 2013 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yeah, you just added it... It wasn't on there before - That's why I said what I did with that...

 

Anyway, so that's how you do it...

 

Yes. The 1B would serve a more popular area, and well combined with the core of the S35's ridership, thats how I managed to do it.